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CNN NEWSROOM

Petition for the release of Steven Avery has been signed; President Obama detailed his executive actions on guns; Second police officer charged in the death of Freddie Gray in police custody is due to go on trial next week; Chicago police facing a new lawsuit after officers admittedly shot and killed a 55-year-old woman by accident. 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 6, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: More than 200,000 people have now signed these petitions calling for his immediate release or pardon, this incredible ground swell of support for this convicted killer, all thanks to this documentary. That is CNN's Jonathan Mann reports is taking the world by storm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everybody is listening. What do you want to say today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm innocent.

MANN: "Making a murderer," it is the latest binge watching obsession on Netflix. The ten-part documentary follows the case of Steven Avery, a Wisconsin man who spent 18 years in prison for rape before DNA evidence helped win his release in 2003. Just two years later, after filing a multimillion-dollar lawsuit over his wrongful conviction, Avery and his nephew were arrested, both were convicted, this time for the murder of a young woman, Theresa Hallbach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Avery's blood was found inside of Teresa Hallbach's vehicle.

MANN: Avery maintain he is innocent. And defense lawyers say authorities planted evidence to frame him for murder. Since it premiered December 18th, "Making a Murder" has attracted a huge following including many celebrities who are heaping praise on the series.

Actor Ricky Gervais tweeting, never mind an Emmy or Oscar "Making a Murder" deserves a Nobel Prize, the greatest documentary I have ever seen. Not everyone is a fan. Former district attorney Ken Kratz was a special prosecutor in the Avery case. He tells CNN affiliate WLUK the documentary was biased in favor of the defense.

KEN KURTZ, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR IN THE AVERY CASE: The jury was provided a much different picture than what this series provides.

MANN: Filmmakers spent ten years following the case and defend their work.

MOIRA DEMOS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: We believe that the series is representative of what we witnessed. The key pieces of the state's evidence are included in the series.

MANN: Avery remains in prison, serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. While fans dissect the series and the case online, even circulating a petition urging a presidential pardon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth always comes out.

MANN: Jonathan Mann, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So did he do it? I want to talk to one person who says Avery is absolutely guilty and that Netflix performed a miscarriage of justice with this docu-series. She is the one and only Nancy Grace.

Nancy Grace, what's fascinating too about your perspective - good to see you, is that you interviewed Steven Avery back in 2005 when he was still under investigation. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST, NANCY GRACE SHOW: In this case, do you think you're being framed?

STEVEN AVERY, SUSPECT: Yes, I'm being set up because of my lawsuit and everything else.

GRACE: Because of your previous incarceration you're suing?

AVERY: Yes. They set me up then.

GRACE: Well, do you think it has anything to do with her car being found at your auto shop?

AVERY: No. I think it's because of my name and what I went through from them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Nancy, has the Netflix series, though, is that changed your opinion of all of this in any way?

GRACE: OK, no offense, but it doesn't matter what you or I or anybody else and Netflix or all the viewers' think, doesn't matter. What happens is what the jury thought. And, no, the Netflix series has not convinced me that he is innocent. It has convinced me that there is bias in the media. They did what they thought would sell. I was there. I know the facts that were presented to this jury. Her blood is found on a bullet in his garage, a bullet that was absolutely fired from his gun. His blood is found in six spots in her vehicle. He told me out of his own mouth that she was there at his place, called over by him, although he star 67'd the number and disguised who he was for her to take a photo there for "auto trader." He has on (INAUDIBLE) come to the door wearing nothing but a towel. So she didn't want to go back but she wanted to keep her job. So she went back to take the picture. That's the last time she was known alive. And not only that, possibly the most important is her bones, her charred bones, found intertwined in steel belts of tires out behind his auto salvage lot.

BALDWIN: All right. I'm hearing all the details and the facts. But here is about -- you talk about bias, and then you have the other camp who is saying, well, hang on. You know, the Avery family, they think that the small town cops in Manitou County, they had some sort of bias or vendetta against him, you know. The county was about to pay a ton of money for his wrongful imprisonment lawsuit. Why not buy that?

GRACE: The reason I'm not buying that is this so-called conspiracy would have to include lawmen, lawwomen and prosecutors from two separate counties. Manitou and Calumet (ph). How could he have done it? I mean, think through his theory. To do that, police would have to go and kill Teresa Hallbach. They would have to be in on him calling her over the day she is murdered. What, they had a hand on that? And him disguising his identity? This is a very troubling aspect of the case, his sweat, not blood, not semen, not saliva, his sweat is found under the hood of her car. Now, how are police going to get his sweat and plant it under her hood? Her car found on his property?

[15:35:44] BALDWIN: Let me throw some nails at you, though. What about how the film sort of, you know, without overtly saying it, I mean, there were all of these examples about how this family, the Avery family not totally even educated to understand their legal rights, sometimes don't know the difference between, you know, a cop and an attorney, Avery allows his property to be searched without first calling up a lawyer. What about that?

GRACE: OK, are you suggesting that because they don't have a law degree that he can't commit a murder? Because that doesn't make any sense. That's a (INAUDIBLE). That doesn't follow. Maybe he doesn't have a law degree. Maybe he didn't go to college. But he darn well could commit a murder. And of course his family believes in him. What mother wouldn't believe her son she loves? I would believe my son. It would be over my cold dead body I would think my son would do a thing like this. Of course they don't believe it.

BALDWIN: Everyone is talking about this docu-series. There's one perspective from Nancy Grace.

Nancy Grace, thank you so much. You can watch Nancy weeknights on our sister network HLN 8:00 p.m. eastern. Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a novel approach to preventing gun violence in America perhaps. A politician can agree. So bring in the techies. We will explain how a so-called smart guns could save live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:40:33] BALDWIN: Just one day after President Obama details his executive actions on guns, those on both sides of the debate here really digging their heels in today. Republican house speaker Paul Ryan slamming the president saying he should be more focused on combating terrorism than issuing new executive actions to address gun sales.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: If you are buying and selling guns you have to have an FFL, whether or not you do sell at a gun show or anywhere else. There isn't a loophole. This is a distraction. The president clearly does not respect the second amendment rights for law abiding Americans. I think it would be nice if he would focus on defeating ISIS, on calling radical Islamic terrorism what it actually is, instead of talking about how we can intimidate and frustrate the second amendment rights of law abiding citizens. We will look at all of our options but won't take this distraction for more than it is, a distraction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, one of the key proposals President Obama pitched during yesterday's emotional news conference at the White House involved investing in smart gun technology, directing the departments of defense and justice and homeland security to really truly study it. Here was the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If a child can't open a bottle of aspirin, we should make sure that they can't pull a trigger on a gun. All right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But the NRA sees this as a potential form of gun control. New Jersey already requires gun retailers to sell smart guns, a development some gun activists find alarming.

So let me bring in Margot Hirsch. Margot is the president of the Smart Tech Challenges Foundation, everything from biometrics to radiofrequency identification tags and even mechanical locks.

So Margot, good to see you.

MARGOT HIRSCH, PRESIDENT, SMART TECH CHALLENGES FOUNDATION: Nice to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Explain to me how a smart gun would work.

HIRSCH: Yes. A smart gun is essentially a personalized gun. It has a type of user authentication technology that only allows an authorized user to fire it. So that type of technology could be a biometric fingerprint scanner so it would only authenticate to a specific user whose fingerprint who was in the database for that gun. Or there's also RFID technology that requires a token, ring or bracelet to be worn in close proximity to the trigger and when you've got that ring on and go to fire the gun, it unlocks. And when you remove your finger or your hand from the gun, it then relocks the gun and can't be fired.

BALDWIN: So just as I make sure, for example, with my iPhone I can use my thumb print to unlock my phone and we make sure if it's my phone my thumb print and nobody else gets their hands on my phone, is that roughly how a gun would work?

HIRSCH: That's correct. In the case of the biometric, yes, and in the case of RFID, you'd have on a ring or a bracelet.

BALDWIN: OK. How expensive are we talking here?

HIRSCH: It will vary depending if it's a retrofit or actually integrated into a gun. The numbers we have heard are a few hundred dollars, but not double the price of an existing handgun today. Again, these technologies aren't out yet so it's premature to discuss real pricing.

BALDWIN: But that is already what critics are saying. You know, critics are jumping on and saying that technology would make them, you know, too expensive even if they were to be required. What would your response be to that?

HIRSCH: I think there are users out there that will not put a price on safety, especially people who have firearms and children in the house. A few hundred dollars to make sure that your child cannot accidentally use a gun if they come upon it to shoot themselves or a loved one or in the case of someone who is contemplating suicide and they come across a family member's gun, it cannot be used. So I think that price in this case is not an option and a few hundred dollars won't make the difference in a buying decision.

BALDWIN: I do think it's important to point out, you know, the other side, hearing from the national rifle association and national shooting sports foundation. They actually don't oppose this, you know, smart gun technology. They just oppose the notion of making, you know, this technology mandatory.

But bottom line, when you, you know, when you cover these mass shooting cases as I have, you know, if somebody is using a smart gun and uses their thumb print, that doesn't mean that they will not, you know, wreak terror on a school or a church or, you know, a medical center. This won't stop that.

[15:45:15] HIRSCH: It might not necessarily stop those types of killings, but these technologies will help prevent accidental deaths and suicides, and those numbers are huge. Of 30,000 gun deaths a year, 20,000 suicide. And then you have got the accidental deaths on top of that. So smart gun technologies could make a real dent in gun violence numbers.

BALDWIN: Which we need a dent to those numbers.

HIRSCH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Margo Hirsch, president of Smart Tech Challenge foundation, thank you for your time.

And let me also point out President Obama will be joining Anderson Cooper tomorrow night for this exclusive one-hour live town hall to discuss gun violence in America. Please watch tomorrow night 8:00 eastern only here on CNN.

Coming up next, more on the breaking news out of Baltimore. This police officer whose trial turned out to be a mistrial in the Freddie Gray case has now been ordered to testify in trials involving his fellow police officers. How will that work? Will that be challenged? Stay with me.

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[15:49:35] BALDWIN: Breaking news out of the city of Baltimore where the second police officer charged in the death of Freddie Gray in police custody is due to go on trial next week. And a judge ruled today that officer William Porter, that initial officer who has been tried in the case, remember that resulted in a mistrial, must testify in the trials of at least two of his fellow officers. By the way, his retrial is set for June.

Officer Caesar Goodson, he is that Baltimore police officer who was actually the one driving that transport van that took Freddie Gray on, was in court today. This was a pretrial hearing. Jury selection for him begins Monday.

Jean Casarez has been all over this Baltimore story here. So the fact though that this judge is ordering this police officer to testify in at least two of these trials, that's being challenged already, is it not?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They say they are going to go to the court of appeals as soon as they can to appeal this. But this is huge on so many different levels. Because as you know, William Porter was tried. He was the first police officer. It was a hung jury. They couldn't decide. So a retrial date has been set for June. So, Brooke, he tried to say I have a Fifth Amendment right against in crimination because I have a trial coming up. Prosecutor says we will give you immunity. Anything you say in testimony in these trials coming forward in the other officers we won't use against you.

But then the defense said, wait a minute. First of all, there's a federal investigation going on and potentially there are federal charges here. The immunity doesn't stretch to any federal charges so this could subject him to that. Secondly, under Maryland law, this immunity does not cover perjury. So if he would testify to something different than what he did in his own trial, the defense is saying he could be brought up on brand new charges of perjury.

Furthermore, they say, it's going to taint the jury pool because he has got a jury pool out there somewhere. Thirdly, they say in his own trial all you did prosecutors was call him a liar in his closing statement. Everything he said was a lie. But here's why they want him. He is the only person that we know of that spoke to Freddie Gray, said he needs medical attention.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CASAREZ: And he told Caesar Goodson, the driver of the van, and at that point he did not get to the hospital.

BALDWIN: We wait to see the result of that. Again, the Caesar Goodson, jury selection starts Monday.

Let me pivot, though, quickly. We are just getting this news in on Bill Cosby. I'm looking at you and I'm thinking the last time we saw you was in Small Town, Pennsylvania where we know, you know, Bill Cosby is facing his first criminal charges in this on case. So there are other cases in which though it is still be under the statute of limitations with regard to some of these sexual assault allegations including in L.A. And so, we are now hearing the L.A. county district attorney's office has declined to file criminal charges against Bill Cosby.

CASAREZ: Interesting. The one open investigation we know about in Los Angeles was Chloe Goins who had gone forward saying that at the playboy mansion in 2008 that Bill Cosby was there. He had sexually assaulted her. Her attorney believing that it was within the statute of limitations. He also told me those several months ago they hadn't heard from the DA's office, so he wasn't sure if criminal charges would or would not be filed. But now we know definitively the district attorney's office is saying no criminal charges.

BALDWIN: Jean Casarez, thank you very much.

CASAREZ: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Chicago police facing a new lawsuit after officers admittedly shot and killed a 55-year-old woman by quote "accident." You'll hear a piece of my emotional interview with her neighbor who called 911 for help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:56:23] BALDWIN: Little more than three weeks to go until the big Iowa caucuses here, and everyone is hitting the ground there including the Texas senator Ted Cruz, live pictures coming at you from Spirit Lake, Iowa.

CNN's Dana Bash sat down with him for an interview right before the rally began. And so you can catch what Senator Cruz has said, especially in response to some of this back and forth with Donald Trump questioning citizenship issues. Could he be president could that all be challenged, that will all be on "the LEAD."

Meantime, to Chicago we go, where the family of Bettie Jones has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city. Jones, a 55-year-old grandmother was shot and killed by police in Chicago the day after Christmas. Jones' family claims the shooting was quote "an excessive use of force and constitutes unjustifiable homicide." Police pretty quickly said Jones was accidentally killed by an officer who was responding to a disturbance call in that apartment area involving her upstairs neighbor, Quintonio LeGrier. The 19-year-old was also killed by police.

And I just recently spoke with his father who said he was the one who actually picked up the phone, called 911 hoping police would help his son. Instead, he says, the young man and his neighbor Bettie died needlessly. I just want to play a piece of this interview with this father that just was gut wrenching.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO LEGRIER, SON QUINTONIO KILLED BY CHICAGO POLICE: And when I get to the bottom of the steps I notice the lower torso at first of someone in a stance in the grass. I did not know clearly if he was an officer or who he might have been. And I get to the bottom of the stairs on the landing I recognize someone standing there, dark hair, light skin, Spanish or perhaps Caucasian race. And I noticed the gesture. I can't believe it. I thought he was coming at me with that bat.

F -- the word f, no, no twice was yelled. I proceed to look to my right and saw my son laying there. And I saw his legs and he was approximately three feet inside Ms. Jones' doorway. And I wanted to reach out and grab him, but I wasn't trained in CPR or anything so I didn't exactly know what to do except to call out to him to let him know I was there because my son -- please forgive me, Ms. Brooke. My son who was laying there and he was still alive and moving and no one, no one at all assisted him at any time while he was there. And at which point I look back and saw Ms. Jones laying there. And once again, yelled, screamed as loud as I can. Someone get an ambulance. Someone get someone to help my son! That's all I could think to say.

At that time an officer approached me and asked me was anyone else in the unit upstairs, and I replied no. And he walked past me and he went into the unit. And I proceed to continue to stand there and request an ambulance, assistance or some police assistance to assist my son because I know he is still alive. I see him moving, but no one would reply to help my son or Ms. Jones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: His son's funeral will be held Saturday.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "The LEAD" starts now.