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CNN NEWSROOM

Super PAC Set Up To Support Senator Marco Rubio Sets Sights On Governor Chris Christie; Hollywood Heroin is Killing People Very, Very Quickly; SC Governor Nikki Haley Will Deliver Republican Response to SOTU; Tensions Erupting After Saudis Execute A Prominent Shia Cleric. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 5, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[15:30:00] DAVID LOVE, CONTRIBUTOR, THEGRIO.COM: This country has a double standard. I would say it's a color-coded system when it comes to defining terrorism. Throughout the years black people have been criminalized. And you know, it seems that white people, whey they have guns, roam around, take over a federal building it's OK. No, really, no need for concern. It seems that law enforcement doesn't really care. But I would argue that if this it group had been black or brown and Muslim, you know, there would be a much different response. Actually a violent response.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: What about, you know, I can hear the critics of your sort of thesis would be saying, well, hang on a second, you know. These armed protesters in Oregon, yes, they may be armed, they are not destroying property, no one is in imminent danger there, what would your response to them be?

LOVE: Well, it's good that they are not destroying property, but I believe that terrorism goes far beyond just, you know, destroying property. The fact is that they are heavily armed on to the teeth. They are in possession of a federal building. It seems like they want something to happen. And I don't think it's a good thing whatever it is they expect to happen. So, you know, you can't have people just taking over government property with guns and expecting to die or to, you know, kill or be killed. I think it's a recipe for disaster.

BALDWIN: You mentioned a word a second ago. I had a separate guest on from the 'Washington Post" who would agree with you. And she used terrorism. Would you call this terrorism?

LOVE: Definitely. Definitely. It's, you know, it is not just a matter of violence, but it's the use of force threatening and intimidating. It's not just an issue of killing people, God forbid, but it's an issue of them being there in a forceful situation. They plan to, you know, they plan to be involved in acts of violence if necessary. And it's clear that, you know, these days you have these militia groups, these white militia groups who go around carrying their weapons. And it's not just a matter of making a political statement, but they know that they are instilling fear into the hearts and minds of people. And that's why they are effective. It's because of the threat that they feel they that pose to these people to the public in general.

BALDWIN: The federal government says they are monitoring the FBI. We wait to see how long this thing could go on.

David Love with thegrio.com, thank you for your perspective.

LOVE: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Got it. Coming up next here, it is called Hollywood heroine. And this new strain in the drug is particularly deadly. But police aren't exactly sure why. We will talk to Sanjay Gupta about this dangerous epidemic, Hollywood heroin.

Plus a super PAC set up to support senator Marco Rubio sets sights on Governor Chris Christie. We will dig into the political ad war and find out why no one is going after Donald Trump.

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[15:36:40] BALDWIN: It is called Hollywood heroin. It is killing people very, very quickly. Eight people in the state of Massachusetts alone have died in just one week from the new strain of this drug. Police are still trying to figure out why it's so dangerous.

Just over the weekend, police seized 9,000 bags of heroin with the Hollywood stamp and arrested four people. Let me bring in our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta who has been on this for some time now.

So Sanjay, what is it about this strain of heroin that's so awful and deadly?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are still trying to figure that out, Brooke. But the big concern here is that with certain heroin batches, people are actually cutting them with another drug. Drug known as (INAUDIBLE). In particular, the one that was concern about. And basically, that's just a much more powerful version of this. It's a medication that is tend to up to 100 times more powerful. So they use it so that they can increase the potency of what they are giving. But someone who has habitual heroin use, if they suddenly get exposed to something that's much stronger, that's where they run into problems. So typically, Brooke, at somebody who has been using heroin quite a bit thinks they know what they are getting and suddenly they get something much different, much more powerful.

BALDWIN: So they get this powerful form of heroin and in some cases if you were to overdose and let's say the paramedics rushed to you and they are using this what, certain kind of drug that's saving people.

GUPTA: Yes. It's a drug called Narcan (ph) or (INAUDIBLE). And this has been a movement lately in many states around the country to try to make this more widely available. But basically it's an antidote. So even somebody who is in the middle or an overdose, some who has stopped breathing, because of an overdose, if they get this Narcan, it can actually reverse that. It sort of kicked the heroin, if you will, out of the receptors and brain and, you know, makes someone able to start breathing again.

So, it can be quite effective. And we have seen it actually at work in various places. But that's what hay would try and get in an ambulance and in emergency room or from the individuals themselves.

BALDWIN: So if we're talking about this particular strain of Hollywood heroin and the deaths specifically in Massachusetts, I mean, you have been reporting on this for so long the issue with the problems heroin nationwide. But with this, is this specifically problematic in New England or the northeast?

GUPTA: You know, it's a good question, Brooke. It's really problematic all over the country. And it is -- what's so scary about it and frightening is that many of the people who are heroin users now started off as addicts to pain pills. They may have gotten a pain pill prescription from their doctor, from their dentist, whoever, and overtime they become addicted to those pain pills. At some point they could no longer get the pain pills so they turned to heroin, which is the same active ingredients as narcotic pain pills.

The thing about heroin is that you may not realize this, but it's cheaper and in many states more widely available than these prescription pain pills. So that's often the trend is they start addicted to pain pills and then turn to heroin. And I think one statistic said up to 80 percent of new heroin users started off with an addiction to pain pills.

BALDWIN: You have been look into it. We will look for more on your investigation tonight on the heroin epidemic in this country tonight on AC 360. Dr. Gupta, thank you very much. 8:00 eastern here on CNN.

Coming up next, just in to us, the Republican Party now are revealing who will be delivering the response to President Obama's state of the union address next week. I think back to the recent past you had Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, who gets the nod this time?

Also the White House really sort of trying to figure out how to thread the needle here. Why an execution in Saudi Arabia is truly straining ties with America's long-time ally.

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[15:43:55] BALDWIN: This just in. Governor Nikki Hailey of South Carolina will deliver the Republican address following the president's state of the union next week. In a statement she says quote "this is a time of great challenges for our country but also of great opportunities. I intend to speak about both."

So let me bring in our chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

Now we have the name. You know, obviously, my immediate thought was, potential future VP pick. Talk to me a little bit about that and how this is also sort of become this whoever, you know, issues this response to the president it's become like an infamous or an interesting position for these folks.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's a 'be careful what you wish for" because it doesn't always go well.

Let's start with what you just began with that she's a potential VP pick. She is absolutely there's so much buzz around her as that she is, you know, a pretty successful, very successful, I think, certainly if you're a Republican, governor of a southern state. She has been doing well when it comes to the economy, when it comes to education reforms and others. So it is let's just start where we should start, which is her record and her experience and her abilities.

But let's also look at what I was just calling her, the pronoun, she's a she. And the bottom line, blunt way, there's no other way to say it, Brooke, but Republicans in Washington, particularly on Capitol Hill, are desperate to counter the idea that the Republican Party has turned into an anti-woman bigoted party. So what better way to do it, then again, let's start with her experience and her credentials, to have a successful southern governor who was a woman, who is a minority, and can show that side of the Republican party.

So I think if you look at the full package for the party, it is frankly genius. When it comes to Nikki Hailey, it's you know, it is kind of a tough bag because you will never know what is going to happen. You had Marco Rubio's infamous water moment. Bobby Jindal did not do himself any favors. It was, you know, awkward and a little bit odd. And the list goes on when it comes to Republican responses.

[15:46:07] BALDWIN: All right. So Governor Haley for that.

Let's move on and talk about a date that I'm sure you have on your calendar for quite a while, February 1st, the Iowa caucuses. Take a look at this map. I love this map because you have 20 stops, town halls, events, appearance all to date. The candidates there on the trail in full force. Not only is the trail heating up, you know, sort of these ad wars. You have several ads from Republican candidates and the groups that support them. They are launching today across Iowa and New Hampshire. And two alone are from a group that supports Marco Rubio both with the same target. Watch this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Christie could well be Obama's favorite Republican governor. Why? Christie's record. He instituted an internet sales tax, supported common core and liberal energy policies. Incredibly Christie even backed Obamacare's Medicaid expansion.

Chris Christie, one high tax common core, liberal energy loving Obamacare Medicaid expanding president is enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conservative Solutions PAC is responsible for the content of this advertising.

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BALDWIN: So not only is it a Rubio super PAC, it's the Rubio campaign going straight after Chris Christie. Why? Why Chris Christie?

BASH: This is a perfect example of how these campaigns are trying to play a game of chess with the map that you just showed. People who support Rubio, including and obviously especially the super PAC who by laws isn't supposed to talk to the campaign, are worried about the fact that in New Hampshire Chris Christie is doing better. I'm told that internally inside the super PAC that Rubio is still beating Chris Christie, but that Chris Christie is coming up on Rubio.

So for Marco Rubio to be the kind of establishment alternative going down the road, he has to do well somewhere. And let's just assume in New Hampshire Donald Trump wins because he is ahead in the polls and I'm told, you know, he is even in some private polling among many Republicans. Then, if Marco Rubio loses in New Hampshire to Chris Christie, he is in trouble. He's got at least perform a strong second if not win to be able to continue on and do well where the Rubio campaign I know hopes to do very well, which is South Carolina.

So that is the reason. It's because they are looking ahead. They see Chris Christie as a potential threat to their long-term game and they want to try to nail them. And I'm told by a source at the super PAC, they are worried that Chris Christie is, you know, basically living in New Hampshire right now. He has been winning support on his personality. He has a big personality. And he has having these town halls day in and day out, but they want to remind people of his record which is what they added to that.

BALDWIN: All right. So all these candidate, all these other people at work heating up. Just quickly, why is no one directly targeting the front runner? Where's the anti, you know, Donald Trump campaign ad?

BASH: You know what, Brooke? It's simple. It doesn't work. People have tried it. Jeb Bush is out there saying it until he is blue in the face. He is probably talking about it as we speak. It's not working.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: End of story.

BALDWIN: OK. The end. There you go. Dana Bash, thank you so much.

BASH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: My next guest says President Obama is siding with Iran over Saudi Arabia as the sides are escalating, the violent dispute in the Middle East. Hear his reasons for saying that, coming up next.

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[15:52:37] BALDWIN: We are getting word of more fallout over the growing feud between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Kuwait says it's recalling its ambassador with Iran, just the latest country to side with Saudi Arabia. The escalating crisis is threatening to further destabilize region released. Tensions are erupting over the weekend after the Saudis executed a number of people, among them a prominent Shia cleric. Iranian protesters then retaliated, torching and raiding the Saudi embassy in Tehran. The president of Iran today calling the cleric's execution a quote "great crime."

Josh Rogan is with me, CNN political analyst and columnist for "Bloomberg View."

Josh Rogan, nice to see you.

JOSH ROGAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy New Year.

BALDWIN: Happy new year to you. So given everything that's happening in the Middle East, how does this put the White House -- what kind of position does this put the White House in? How should the U.S. handle this?

ROGAN: Sure. Well, it puts the White House in the worst of all possible positions. The administration came out yesterday and said we are not going to take sides. This is for the Saudis and the Iranians to work out for themselves and we are not going to use our influence.

The problem with that is as far as the Saudis are especially our concerned, the U.S. has been moving both before the crisis and now even after the crisis toward the Iranian position. They have been displeased for a long time about the Iran nuclear deal, about the U.S. Syria policy, and then in the wake of the crisis, the U.S. has been criticizing Saudi Arabia. They defended the Iranian position that the government wasn't responsible for burning the embassy, that was the state department spokesman yesterday.

So the Saudis look at all of this and they say, well, if you're not listening to us and we don't feel like you're being responsive to us, why are we going to listen to you? And this presents problems for the U.S. policy across the region, especially in Syria.

BALDWIN: But, I mean, wouldn't this -- it would behoove the United States not to take a hard line side, though, with either country.

ROGAN: Well, yes, that's their argument. And it's true that Saudi Arabia is still our ally. We still have a deep relationship with them and all of that. At the same time, unless we play some sort of role in bringing these countries together or doing something to help resolve this crisis, it's very likely it will get worse and it will affect us. And it will affect our policies in Syria, our efforts to Yemen, and our efforts to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

So the U.S. can't just sit back and say, well, there's nothing we can do. We don't have any influence. Influence is kind of like your muscles. If you don't use it, you lose it. Believe me I know.

[15:55:13] BALDWIN: OK, I'll take your word for it there, Josh Rogan.

You quoted Aaron David Miller, former Middle East negotiator in your piece. And this is quote from him. The Obama administration seize the Iran deal as the one stabilizing factor in the region that is increasingly spinning out of control and is therefore giving the U.S.- Iranian relationship top priority. He led with that but what was his point in saying that? ROGAN: Right. And this is something that I think even people inside

the Obama administration will acknowledge is that we have got this big thing, it is called the Iran nuclear deal and that's has been the president's legacy. That's in a very delicate stage right now. That's what they're focused on. And they don't want this to get in the way of that.

So they really can't confront the Iranians. And we have seen a string of incidents, right. The administration was about to sanction Iran last week and then they pulled out at the last minute. Congress passed the bill to increase waiver restrictions on Iran and John Kerry promised he would waive those restrictions.

So the administration doesn't want to rock the boat Iran. And the Saudis look at that may say, well, that's not good for us so we're going to go our own way. So when the Saudis decide to do something like anger Iran by killing a Shia cleric, we are cutting of relations with Iran. Their response the burning of their embassy. They're just not listening to us because they believe that our priorities keeping this Iran nuclear intact and that comes at a cost to them and that's coloring this whole crisis.

BALDWIN: Josh Rogan, thank you so much.

ROGAN: Any time.

BALDWIN: And before I let all of you go, just a reminder, please, most definitely tune into CNN Thursday night. President Obama will be joining Anderson Cooper for an exclusive one-hour live town hall to discuss gun violence in America. Watch it right here on CNN Thursday night, 8:00 eastern. And we will be right back.

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