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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

President's Final Appearance of 2015; U.S. Men Charged with Terrorism; Geography Lesson Closes School; Obama Addresses Terrorism Fears. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 18, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

President Obama, just a short time from now, expected to make his final official White House appearance of 2015. It's his annual end of year news conference, of course, and we're going to carrying every bit of it live right here on CNN just as soon as it gets underway.

But then later this evening, his schedule continues. He is on his way to the West Coast, specifically the tragedy-struck city of San Bernardino, California, where he is going to privately meet with some of those families who were devastated by this month's ISIS-inspired shooting attack that left 14 people dead and more than 20 others injured.

That White House news conference starts in just a little over an hour and a half. And if the president follows tradition, it will initially be a lookback at his administration's accomplishments over the past year. And then if he follows traditions, he should take some questions.

Jim Acosta is at the White House and will be one of those people likely firing some of those questions.

Jim Acosta, I can't imagine that he's not going to have to address the issue about terror attacks in California, the war on ISIS, as opposed to questions about his record of the last year being right off the top.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, I don't think we'll have to ask any questions about what they consider to be their accomplishments from this past year. I think the president will walk in, he'll take a bit of a victory lap, and he'll tick off what they view as his accomplishments of 2015. They like to talk about this climate change deal that was reached in Paris. They like to talk about the Iran nuclear deal from earlier this year. The diplomatic opening with Cuba.

Just the other day we were reporting that there was a new deal struck between the U.S. and Cuba to restore commercial flights between the two countries. And then what just happened up on Capitol Hill, this big $1 trillion spending package, along with those tax break extenders that the White House has been fighting for. They feel very good about the fact that Paul Ryan, that speaker of the House, the new Speaker of the House, was able to deliver up on Capitol Hill. They feel like the brinkmanship is finally over, and the president can help govern the country without that hanging over his head.

So they feel good about a lot of thing, Ashleigh, but you're right, all of that will be up against this backdrop of fear and concern among the American people about what is happening right now with respect to this war on ISIS, the prospect of lone wolf followers of ISIS wreaking havoc here on the U.S. home front, and so the president will be asked about that as well.

But, Ashleigh, then you get into the curveballs that typically surface at these end of year news conferences. I suspect somebody will ask the president if he has seen "Star Wars" yet or if he plans to see "Star Wars" in the coming days and so forth. So I suspect it will be a - a bit of a grab bag and the president will be in a good - good hearted mood as he's trying to get out of here and start his family vacation out in Hawaii.

We should point out, though, on the way out there, he's going to be stopping in San Bernardino to talk to the families of the victims of that terror attack. And so even though it will be light-hearted - the president will try to keep it light-hearted during this news conference, there's certainly a lot of heaviness in the air at this White House. They understand that the president has a tough task ahead when it comes to reassuring the American people.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes, without question, I mean leaving that meeting and heading off to San Bernardino alone is that heavy shadow that just looms in the background.

ACOSTA: That's right.

BANFIELD: Jim Acosta, at the White House, thank you.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BANFIELD: We'll tap into what you've got later on as that press conference gets underway.

ACOSTA: OK.

BANFIELD: And I want to take you to the San Bernardino story now because so far there is only one person who has been charged in that terror inspired attack, and he's the man who bought the actual guns, the rifles that were used by those killers to shoot dead 14 people. Those charges were made formal just yesterday. The person, Enrique Marquez, here he is on the right, very unusual photograph to show for somebody who's involved in materiel support to terror and straw purchasing guns, but the federal complaint says that Marquez got an introduction to Islam about 10 years ago from the man on the left, his former neighbor, one of the murders, Syed Farook.

Those two men, together, prayed, apparently they talked about becoming more radical together, allegedly made plans to bomb and to shoot and to kill people. They did that together from the time they were teenagers, in fact. The charges against Enrique Marquez support terrorists basically. They are about materiel support and lying to get his hands on guns. And then there's also immigration fraud and a marriage that was a sham. And in an odd little twist, this is not the first time that Marquez has been a figure in the news. CNN affiliate KTLA interviewed him just back in April on a story completely unrelated to terror. It was about his dog who was bitten by a snake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ENRIQUE MARQUEZ: I'm sore now. I'm really, really sore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ran hard?

MARQUEZ: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: At least we know what his voice sounds like, but it's so unusual to see that clip from the news. So he says he's gone from saving a dog from a snake, to now being charged with supporting the San Bernardino terrorist plot.

[12:05:04] Elsewhere in the war on terror, three men in three different parts of the country are now dealing with - or are now being dealt with - they're being dealt with, pardon me, for trying to help terrorists right from here in the United States. The men are Mufid Elfgeeh, a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Yemen, living in Rochester, New York. He pleaded guilty yesterday in federal court for being a recruiter for ISIS. And he is going off to prison for more than 22 years for his role.

Jalil Lbn Ameer Azi, just 19 years old, from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, indicted yesterday for trying to provide material support to, you guessed it, ISIS. And also posting the names and addresses of 100 U.S. military members on Twitter accounts. He also used to spread ISIS extremist views.

And Adam Shafi, 22 years old from Freemont, California. Federal officials stopping him before he could board a plane to Turkey. The FBI listened to phone conversations of him saying that he wanted to join and die with the terrorist group operating out of Syria.

Phil Mudd is here. He's a former CIA counterterrorism official. Also legal analyst Joey Jackson.

I want to go back to the case that we are looking at right now in San Bernardino and I want both of you to weigh in on this. Phil, I want to begin with you. We didn't expect yesterday, right away, that there'd be materiel support charges coming down for Enrique Marquez, but he's facing the most serious of serious charges, even though the officials aren't suggesting that he, himself, was involved in the killings of those 14 people. But when you get involved with the guns and you get involved with bad guys and ultimately the result is that, are they going to squeeze this guy for everything he knows about the last several years? PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think they have already. I

suspect what happens here, and the reason that we had a gap between the conversations that began with him after the killings, and the actual indictment or the complaint, is that he started cooperating. They realized that if they charged him, he might seize up. He might stop cooperating. Over the past few weeks, I'm sure he's laid out virtually everything that he knew. I don't know how much more he has to lay out. So I think the reason we saw the delay is, he told them what he knows already, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: But again, you know, if he told them everything and he was being supportive, he checked himself into a facility, he called 911 -

MUDD: Yes.

BANFIELD: It seems to me that these kinds of charges with extraordinary sentencing potential are to make sure that you've got everything out of him you can. But, look, we know very little about this guy. You've seen some pictures. You've got a little background on him. Does this seem like the kind of guy who'd know a whole lot about what his friends who are terrorists might have been plotting over the last few years?

MUDD: I don't think he knows much more than probably what he said. But I think when you're talking about the characterization of people who participate in these events, in addition to talking about people who are converting to a radical version of Islam, remember another thing, we're talking about the mental state of this individual and him checking himself into an institution. I've seen so many cases where you see vulnerable individuals, partly because sometimes their mental capacity might be impaired, they are vulnerable to a recruitment pitch. We're not talking about people who have straight line lives, who go to college, who get a 4.0, who go out and get an engineering degree and get a job. We're talking about people who might be troubled in their lives. They find somebody to latch on to, as we saw in this case, and they find a path that gives them a larger meaning, in this case radical Islam. So I think that characterization is pretty common in the cases I've seen.

BANFIELD: Joey, I want you to respond to those words that Phil just laid out, mental state, vulnerable, diminished, which leads me to think diminished capacity. If you were his defense attorney, and I know you haven't interviewed him and you don't know anything about him other than what - the scant details in these filings, but that seems to me, with some of the evidence so far, that he's checked himself into an institution, that he's going to have some - some ripe defense.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know - good afternoon, Ashleigh. Good afternoon, Phil.

I certainly think that's what it's setting up to be, but I think it's probably a little too late for that. And here's why I say that. When you look at any defense that's predicated upon your mental state or lack of capacity, it's at the time you committed the offense. If you look at the criminal complaint, they're relating to things that he was doing, the plotting, the planning, the purchasing of a rifle, or two rifles rather, when he knew it wasn't him or for him, he was simply a straw buyer. His state of mind seemed to be well enough to indicate on the box it was for me and later turn it over to his friend, who committed these vicious atrocities. And then you go on, you know, with regard to the other charges in the criminal complaint, you know, in terms of him engaging in a sham marriage. I think that's to show the nature of the compelling relationship that he had with Farook in order to really make this a compelling case, to show that he knew exactly, you know, what he was doing.

[12:10:05] And so, you know, when you look at the charges on balance, you could say that he went into - checked himself into the facility. You could say he called 911, making these bizarre statements or what have you, or saying, look, I'm the guy - it was my neighbor who did it, et cetera. But he made clear admissions there, Ashleigh. And so I think that any defense that's predicated upon a mental defect is problematic.

And I'll finally say this, he was interviewed for 10 days. And a lot of what he said has since been corroborated, supported and, in fact, shown to be true by the FBI. So he certainly had the mental capacity to lay out exactly what he did and when he did it and who he did it with. And so I think it's a tough row to hoe in terms of a defense saying, my guy just had no idea what he was doing. He just was mentally sick.

BANFIELD: Well, and there are 14 people dead, and 20 who were injured from a massacre. Someone has to pay the piper. The two shooters are dead and there's no one else involved at this point other than this man. So I think people want to see some justice here.

Phil, thank you. Joey, thank you. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you.

MUDD: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, an inside look at President Obama's struggle in the war against ISIS, both overseas and here in the United States.

Plus, how a homework assignment, meant to teach students about Islam, ended up shutting down an entire county school system today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Our next story is not, and I are repeat not, just another ill-considered school assignment that winds up in the news now and then because it opens up a can of worms. This is a lot bigger than that. Public schools in Augusta County, Virginia, just west of Charlottesville, are completely shuttered, closed down, kindergarten all the way to high school, all because of a backlash to a homework assignment in a world geography class in Riverheads High. Specifically, it was a calligraphy class. You know, fancy writing.

[12:15:15] In a section on world religion, the students were shown the shahada. That's the Islamic statement of faith. And the students were asked to copy it. You can see it on your screen. That's what they were asked to copy, practicing calligraphy. The instructions say, "this should give you an idea of the artistic complexity of calligraphy." Instead, it showed administrators a complexity they finally decided was a threat to student safety.

My colleague, Jason Carroll, is covering this story. So walk me through this one. What on earth would this be such that it would lead to the closure of an entire school district?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's very clear what you're seeing is a result of the sensitivity that many communities have around the subject. I think that's why you're seeing the reaction that we saw.

Let's start out with what happened. It was last week when this teacher handed out this assignment. And apparently from what we're being told, Ashleigh, this was an assignment that came out of a standard workbook. It's an assignment that perhaps she had done before and with no - with no reaction. This time, as you see there, the instruction was to copy the shahada. The shahada, as you know, is the Muslim profession of faith. It's very common. Loosely translated it basically means there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is the messenger of God.

The assignment specifically said, here is the shahada, the Islamic statement of faith, written in Arabic. In the space below, try copping it by hand. This should give you an idea of the artistic complexity of calligraphy.

Well, a number of parents and some students there, too, were very upset there in the community of Staunton, Virginia. They felt as though this teacher was trying to, in some way, indoctrinate their children into the faith of Islam. They spoke out. Here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAUREL TRUXELL, STUDENT: Why couldn't we just learn to write, hello, good-bye, you know, normal words, not that.

KIMBERLY HERNDON, MOTHER: I will not have my children sit under a woman who indoctrinates them with the Islam religion when I am a Christian and I'm going to stand behind Christ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Ashleigh, we should also point out, I reached out to the school district there to get their input about all this. Here's what they had to say about it. They said, "as we have emphasized, no lesson was designed to promote a religious viewpoint or change any student's religious belief. Although students will continue to learn about world religions as required by the state board of education and the commonwealth standard of learning, a different, non-religious sample of Arabic calligraphy will be used in the future."

A little bit more about that teacher, that geography teacher. Again, this was part of a standard workbook that she pulled this out of. She is not Muslim. She's been a member of the community there for some time. Apparently, according to the sheriff - the local sheriff, Ashleigh, who I spoke to within the past hour, he basically said, after this assignment was handed out, the school district received a number of hateful e-mails and phone calls and that's why, as a precaution, though - there was no specific threat the school - that's why they decided to shut all classes down today. Some 10,000 students now sitting at home.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: It's unbelievable.

And I want to be real specific for those who - who might now know the shahada. It's super common. I mean this is sort of like the "In God We Trust." You see that all over the place. You see it in courthouses. You see it - for the - for folks who don't know the shahada, I mean it's sort of a - you see it in jewelry. You see on mosques because they don't want to depict, you know, anything that suggests idolatry. It's a - it's a very common piece of art as well, isn't it, Jason?

CARROLL: It is, very common, and seen in a number of places. And again, this was something that was picked out of a standard workbook on world religion. So it's not like this teacher just decided, I'm just going to pull this out of nowhere and do this and make this as part of the assignment. She pulled this out of a standard workbook on world religions.

But having said that, doing that perhaps five years ago would not have the reaction that obviously that we're seeing today given the environment, especially here in the United States. A number of people sensitive, obviously, about - for a number of reasons about the religion, and that's what we're seeing here. When I - when we spoke to the local sheriff there, I mean that's basically what he was saying. I think he was basically feeling somewhat overwhelmed by the entire experience. But perhaps this is a learning lesson for a number of people, not just in Virginia.

BANFIELD: All right, Jason Carroll covering this story for us. Thank you. Appreciate that.

[12:19:37] Coming up next, inside a look at the president's struggle with the war against ISIS, both overseas and here in the United States, and maybe most importantly with the people trying to tell them what they need to know without telling them too much, trying to assure them to be safe without abdicating responsibility about the realities of terror on American soil. It is a tough dance, let me tell you. So, a State Department spokesman's going to join me live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Just before the break we were reporting that an entire county school's shutdown over an Islamic-themed homework assignment, just one of many examples that are showing these days that there's a climate of fear in this country. But this is an example that didn't exist perhaps before San Bernardino, before Colorado Springs, before Chattanooga, all deadly incidents inspired by terrorism around the world. In a private meeting with journalists - again, private meeting with

journalists, supposed to be off the record, happened this week, the president said two very key things. Here says he realizes now that he's, quote, "slow to respond" to public fear after recent terror strike, and that his, quote, "low-key approach" makes the Americans worry about their safety. He also predicted that a major deployment of U.S. troops back to the Middle East could mean hundreds more military deaths and cost billions of dollars. And that's just for every month, not in total.

[12:25:03] John Kirby is the spokesperson for the U.S. State Department. He joins me live to talk about all of this.

So, slow to respond. This has been a busy week for the president when it comes to having news conference. This is number three. We had one on Monday from the Pentagon. We had one yesterday from the Counterterrorism Center. We're going to have one today from the White House. Is this an effort to calm people's fears or is this an effort to say, I'm listening, I hear you, I've been busy working, maybe I just haven't told you much about what I'm doing?

JOHN KIRBY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Well, I think it's actually both. And I think it's a recognition that this is a - you know, as we gather together for the holidays, I mean, these kinds of anxieties have happened before. And I think he's simply trying to explain that - that he understands that there are anxieties out there and potential fear, but that the system, the interagency process, and the federal agencies that are responsible for assuring the safety and security of the American people are on the job. That's - that's all the way from the military to the Department of Homeland Security to even us at the State Department.

Today, Secretary Kerry is in New York having a very important meeting on the future of Syria. They're meeting right now with the international Syria support group. Later this afternoon, they'll go to the U.N. to try to get a resolution to codify a process that will help us find a political solution to Syria, which could reduce the violence, which could bring the refugees back home, which could help prevent some of the anxiety and fears about ISIL infiltrating the group or perpetrating attacks.

BANFIELD: I am so glad you said that. And I'm going to skip ahead to that very point. I was going to do a follow-up question just on these hundreds American soldiers dead every month, potentially 500 troops wounded every month, $10 billion a month it could cost if we start sending more ground troops back into the Middle East. I'm going to hold that question.

KIRBY: Sure.

BANFIELD: And jump ahead just to dovetail what you just said. Abdulhamid Abaaoud, it is now confirmed that this terrorist, who blew himself up after the Paris attacks, this was one of the Paris attackers, he came through Leros. He came through Leros, Greece. I don't know if he was embedded with the refugees there, but it seems to be a likely theory. And he would be, at my count, the third. If I'm wrong, please correct me. But I think the bigger issue is this, perception is huge and sometimes reality. That would be three terrorists who came amidst the sheep. Those gentle, docile, terrified victims who are looking for help.

KIRBY: Right.

BANFIELD: And this is a big fear among many Americans. And it's being seized upon by republicans in the - the presidential race. Why are they wrong?

KIRBY: Well, look, we have long said, and we said even before there were concerns about infiltrations specifically tied to attacks, that one of the reasons why the refugee process of resettlement here in the United States is so slow, because we were getting criticized, well, why does it take 18 to 24 months? You know, when that little toddler washed up on the beach, do more, do more, do faster. And now the critics are saying, well, you've got to slow it down or stop it.

Look, there's a reason why, and we said it back then, it takes a while because refugees, being resettled in this country, go through a much higher screening and vetting process than any other traveler to the United States. And we don't want to loosen that up. We need to keep that in place. In fact, the president's been very clear that he wants all manners in which people come into this country to be examined even more deeply. So we've got a review the fiance visa program going on right now. The secretary is working with Congress to look at the visa waiver program. All manners in which people come to this country, we know we need to take a look at. So we take that very seriously, and we took it seriously even months ago when - when it wasn't such a focus of the critics. So we recognize we've got more work to do and we'll do that.

BANFIELD: So - and then I'm going to jump right back to the original. And, of course, this could be the root of the problem, and that is there are refugees fleeing in the million because there is a horrifying war going on in Syria and Iraq. And to that end, this, off the record, I hate to say off the record because here we are talking about given the report that came out in "The New York Times," this off the record meeting where the president told American columnists, it seemed as though he was trying to counter this pressure for more boots on ground, a more strident military response to what's happening in Syria. And then he came out with those number. That's really alarming. I know I - I'm used to calling you admiral, because you were the Pentagon spokesman, but you're State Department now.

KIRBY: Right.

BANFIELD: A very different role.

KIRBY: Yes.

BANFIELD: But you are unique in your knowledge base. And so, when it comes to this, where do these terms come from? How do we know 100 American soldiers could die every month and 500 could be injured every month if, in fact, we engage and re-up boots on the ground in the Middle East? KIRBY: Well, look, I won't get into the specifics -

BANFIELD: Best you can.

[12:29:44] KIRBY: Of a discussion that was supposedly off the record and I wasn't privy to that, so I can't speak to the specific details here. But I can say, at large, one of the things that we've learned over the last 14 years of war is that when - if you want to have a sustainable defeat of groups like this, terrorist groups, you have to do it with indigenous force. You need capable, willing partners on the ground, but they have to be indigenous. They have to be regional. They have to be local. They have to know the culture, the ground, the topography. And just as importantly, they have to know the enemy. And so that's what we're

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield and welcome to LEGAL VIEW. >