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GOP Rivals Spar in Last Debate of Year; Trump Weighs in on Debate Performance; Bush & Trump Trade Blows in GOP Debate; Interview with Jeb Bush. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 16, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The race is going to be different today as a result of what happened last night.

[07:00:05] You saw a different Donald Trump last night. You saw Ted Cruz in a way that you hadn't seen him before. So who really resonated? Who really made the most of the moment, and what are we going to see reflected in the polls?

There's only one person who can answer these questions, and of course, that's John Berman. And he joins us right now. Please answer everything I just asked.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This was a fascinating debate, right? I think this last debate of the year you had perhaps the most serious discussion of substance to this moment. You had the most electric moments of tension, but you also had the most surprising moments of non-confrontation. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This is the final Republican debate before the election year begins.

BERMAN (voice-over): There was serious substance, like Donald Trump's plan to ban Muslims from entering the country.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are not talking about isolation. We're talking about security. We're not talking about religion. We're talking about security.

BERMAN: But also a serious strategy, namely the question: to throw down or not to throw down? The answer, a definitive yes to both.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, you know, is great at the one-liners. But he's a chaos candidate. And he'd be a chaos president.

TRUMP: Jeb doesn't really believe I'm unhinged. He said that very simply, because he's failed in this campaign. It's been a total disaster. Nobody cares.

BERMAN: Jeb Bush taking it to Donald Trump not just once...

BUSH: Donald, you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency. That's not going to happen.

BERMAN: Not just twice...

BUSH: If I'm president, I'll be a commander in chief, not an agitator in chief or a divider in chief.

BERMAN: ... but at least three times and maybe, just maybe, getting under his skin.

BUSH: You're never going to be president of the United States...

TRUMP: You're real tough.

BUSH: ... by insulting your way to the presidency.

TRUMP: Let's see: I'm at 42, and you're at 3.

BUSH: Doesn't matter.

TRUMP: So far I'm doing better.

BUSH: Doesn't matter.

TRUMP: So far I'm doing better.

BERMAN: That was just one battle, another, between Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio on several fronts: domestic surveillance...

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are now at a time when we need more tools, not less tools. And that tool we lost, the metadata program was a valuable tool that we no longer have at our disposal.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco knows what he's saying isn't true.

BERMAN: ... defense spending...

RUBIO: Three times, he voted against the Defense Authorization Act that funds the troops.

CRUZ: Well, you know, Marco has continued these attacks, and he knows they're not true.

BERMAN: ... and crucially, immigration.

RUBIO: It's an issue I've lived around my whole life. My family are immigrants. My wife's family are immigrants. All of my neighbors are immigrants.

BERMAN: The first time yet that Rubio has been pushed on his support for immigration reform in a debate.

CRUZ: You know, there was a time for choosing, as Reagan put it, where there was a battle over amnesty. And some chose, like Senator Rubio, to stand with Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer and support a massive amnesty plan.

He was fighting to grant amnesty and not to secure the border. I was fighting to secure the border.

BERMAN: Carly Fiorina suggested neither candidate is up to the task.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To wage war, we need a commander in chief who has made tough calls in tough times and stood up to be held accountable over and over. Not first-term senators who never made an executive decision in their life.

I'll just add that Margaret Thatcher once said, "If you want something talked about, ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman."

BERMAN: There was heat between Chris Christie and Rand Paul over no- fly zones in Syria.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We would shot down the planes of Russian pilots if, in fact, they were stupid enough to think that this president was the same feckless weakling that the president we have in the Oval Office is right now.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think if you're in favor of World War III, you have your candidate. You know, here's the thing.

BERMAN: But for all the insults hurled, there were also hugs. Rhetorical.

CRUZ: We will build a wall that works, and I'll get Donald Trump to pay for it.

BERMAN: And quite literal between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. The current frontrunners who just plain refused to rumble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... somebody who's a maniac one heartbeat away.

TRUMP: I've gotten to know him over the last three or four days. He has a wonderful temperament. He's just fine. Don't worry about it.

BERMAN: And finally, a revealing truce, perhaps, between Donald Trump and the party, his strongest disavowal yet of a third-party run.

TRUMP: I am totally committed to the Republican Party. I feel very honored to be the frontrunner.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: To take Mr. Trump's word, that admission was huge that he made, that he will not run as a third-party candidate. An amazing give-back of leverage for him, an amazing sigh of relief for Reince Priebus and the RNC, to be sure.

So how did Donald Trump do on the stage? How does he think he did? I'll tell you what. He was different, on the stage and after the debate, than I've seen him in the past. Here's a little look at our discussion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The burden of being a frontrunner. As you say, you set the agenda on some big issues. Certainly, you brought immigration into the fore in a way it hadn't been before. You could argue you did that about how to deal with radical Islamism. You're going to be taking the heat when you set the agenda, aren't you?

[07:00:14] TRUMP: Well, I don't think there's ever a burden to be a frontrunner. I would like to have that burden for the rest of my life. I like to be frontrunner, and frankly, to me it's a great honor. It's not a burden. It's a great honor. Having that center podium is a great honor to me.

CUOMO: Now, I want to make sure that we got something right tonight. You were asked by Hugh, will you promise to honor, basically, the pledge that you'll stick with the party no matter what? You said yes.

TRUMP: Well, look, No. 1, I'm in first place, not by a little bit, by a lot. You see the polls that came out today. "Washington Post," ABC came out with a big one. And I mean, it's been amazing.

Monmouth came out with one that was 41 to 14 or 15. So No. 1, I'm the frontrunner. But I've really gotten to respect so many of the people in the party that I didn't know on the other side. I'd been in the party, but I've been a contributor. I've been sort of a fair-haired boy. Now all of a sudden I'm a little bit different.

But I've gotten to know so many of the people, including many of the people on the stage. I had a lot of respect for a lot of the people on the stage. And so I just decided -- I didn't know that question was going to be asked. But when they asked it, I did not hesitate. I decided to just say, "Yes, I'm a Republican. And I'm going to be a Republican. I'm not going to be doing a third party."

CUOMO: No matter what?

TRUMP: No. Not no matter what. I mean, look...

CUOMO: Not no matter what?

TRUMP: No matter what. Look, it -- it's like a boxer. The only way you win a home decision is you've got to knock them out. If I get the votes, nobody can do anything. If I get the delegates, nobody's going to do anything. And I'm leading in a lot of states. You probably just see PPG just came out with -- I'm leading in Iowa now. And I'm leading in a lot of states. And, you know, it's on my shoulders.

I hope I get the votes. I'll be trying very hard. And I will make our country great again.

CUOMO: What if you have some delegates, not enough, it goes to convention and you feel they box you out?

TRUMP: I want to really just do it the old-fashioned way. We're going to run as a Republican. I'm going to try and win as a Republican. I hope I'm going to be treated fairly.

FOX, as you know, just came out with a poll, and I beat Hillary Clinton head on. There are a couple of other ones that say that. And I haven't even really gone after her yet. You know, I've been focused here. I have 15 people here. And I've been focused here, as you may have noticed.

I haven't really focused on Hillary. When I do, I think she's going to fall. Because when she does as poor a job as she's -- and if she's allowed to run. I mean, I don't even know that she's going to be allowed to run.

CUOMO: Why wouldn't she be allowed to run?

TRUMP: What she did with her e-mails is a big problem for her, I think. However, probably, she will be protected, because she's a Democrat in a Democrat administration. But on the assumption that she's allowed to run, I think I will beat her soundly. I hope.

And if I do, we will make this country so great again, and we'll have such great spirit and happiness. And we're just going to have victories. We don't have victories anymore.

You know, in my closing statement, I said we don't win anymore. And that's the case, Chris. Our country doesn't win. We don't win with ISIS. We don't win with health care. We don't win with anything. We don't win with trade.

China is eating our lunch. Japan is eating our lunch. Vietnam eating our lunch. They're just taking our money out of our pocket. If I win, all of that's going to change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We have so much to dive into. And here to analyze with us, John Berman sticks around. Also we want to bring in Michael Smerconish, CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH"; and Hugh Hewitt, host of "The Hugh Hewitt Show." He, of course, was a questioner at the debate last night.

Gentlemen, great to see you. Thanks for getting up early.

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Hugh, let's start with you, because sometimes, you know, it does feel different in the hall as it does from watching it. So did you think that anybody was dominant or the winner last night?

HEWITT: I gave the gold to Chris Christie. I gave the silver to Jeb Bush. And I gave two bronzes out to the two senators who sparred, Rubio and Cruz.

But I must say that I just saw Chris's interview with Donald Trump for the first time. And the platinum goes to the party. Because when Chris got Donald Trump to double down on staying in the party in a way he did on stage, and I was happy. I even clapped. I'm a Republican. I'm a conservative. I don't have to be objective.

CAMEROTA: Impartial.

CUOMO: You asked him.

HEWITT: I asked him. Because people call my radio show. They might call Michael's. And they -- if he ran as a third party, it was over, Hillary wins. He's in the Republican Party, we have a nominee, we have a two-way race. I think we can beat her with any person on that stage. So that's how I called it for the night.

And -- and I'm so glad, Chris, you got him in the after show. Because that actually also helps him with rank-and-file Republicans who want him to be a Republican and not to do the straddle thing. So he may have got a medal out of this, as well.

CUOMO: Smerconish, thumbs up, thumbs down? How'd you rank them?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: From anybody else on that stage, I would be accepting of what Donald Trump said to you, what Donald Trump said to Hugh. But from Donald Trump, I just can't accept it. I listen to Donald Trump, and I think those are the words of someone who on the eve...

CUOMO: Did he run over your dog at some point? What did he do to you?

SMERCONISH: From Donald Trump, I hear the man who is now losing on two polls in Iowa, and he needs to staunch the bleeding, because the momentum has shifted to Ted Cruz. And I just can't accept him at his word, because within the next 50 days, something huge could happen where that was then, and this is now.

[07:10:11] CAMEROTA: John, stylistically, Donald Trump has the opposite of a poker face. He has an elastic face. And he was -- you knew exactly how he felt last night when anybody was saying anything that he disagreed with. He sort of harrumphed. And he also, at times, touched his fellow, you know, candidates. It was just an interesting display.

BERMAN: You could -- you could turn the volume off and have a really fun two hours watching a Donald Trump debate.

Look, I thought he actually began the debate with the most concise opening statement he's had, with the clearest answer he's given yet on his proposal to ban Muslims. He was in complete control.

And then when Jeb Bush started going after him, he's like, you know what? Forget about it. I'm going to be Donald Trump again for a few minutes here and just swing and sigh and roll my eyes and those things. It was interesting.

When he did that thing with Ted Cruz at the end, you're saying, put his hand on him, though. I thought that was genius. I thought it was like, here's my little friend, Ted Cruz, right here. So he understands that physicality can work in your favor, too. CAMEROTA: Totally.

CUOMO: Deciding your fates. That's what a debate is about.

Let's say that last night Ted Cruz had a moment, and he had a chance to make it. Ben Carson last night was again put in a spot by Hugh Hewitt.

Do we have the sound where Hugh's making this, you know, very tough point, which is this is about doing the worst things that human beings can do when we're talking about war and how to fight it. Are you the man for it? Ben Carson gave an interesting answer. Let's play it, and then we'll discuss it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Interestingly enough, you should see the eyes of some of those children when I say to them, "We're going to have to open your head up and take out this tumor." They're not happy about it, believe me. And they don't like me very much at that point. But later on, they love me.

Sometimes you -- I sound like him. You know, later on, you know, they really realize what's going on. And by the same token, you have to be able to look at the big picture and understand that it's actually merciful if you go ahead and finish the job, rather than death by a thousand pricks.

HEWITT: So you are OK with the deaths of thousands of innocent children and civilian? It's like...

CARSON: You got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Thank God that wasn't me, Hugh. So you're asking him this hard question.

HEWITT: Yes.

CUOMO: Do you have what it takes to kill, often, innocents in a situation? He gives that answer. Did you feel that that was a good answer, and what did you make of the reaction from the crowd?

HEWITT: I -- I did not expect the reaction from the crowd. But I stand by my question, because as Clementine Churchill said about Winston, he had the lethality necessary for the job. And if we are in World War III, you have to be a very lethal person. It's a question I think Ben Carson should welcome, and he handled it well. He did say he did have what it took to do what it takes to win a war.

Do people believe him? He broke out at the National Day of Prayer. He broke out because he's an evangelical, because he's the nicest man you'll meet on that stage. And did he carry through the idea that he could be a war-maker in the way that World War III? I don't know. But I'll stand by the question, because if you can't, you shouldn't

want this job. I think everyone else on that stage is pretty persuasive. Gentle Ben, that's the question.

CAMEROTA: But he -- why were you surprised by that mini mutiny that you heard from the crowd? I mean, they -- I think that they thought that that was out of bounds.

HEWITT: Well, because they don't like the idea that -- they can't do it to me, because I'm a conservative. They think the media might be baiting people into, "Oh, you want to kill people." That's not what I was talking about that. I was talking about lethality. So they'll get it. They'll be fine. And I read the post reviews afterwards from conservatives who kind of figured it out, and Dr. Carson kind of liked the moment.

CUOMO: So how did you like that little taste of what happened?

HEWITT: I felt like a Cleveland Browns quarterback.

CUOMO: Now you know how it feels, my brother, when you ask something that seems to make sense to you and you get pilloried.

CAMEROTA: Michael, we know you always take hand-written notes. So show us. Why don't you -- what your takeaway was.

SMERCONISH: Yes. You know, I do this because I like to lock it. It's a smart crowd that we attract after the debate, everybody weighing in and offering their opinions. I'd like to lock in exactly as I saw it.

CAMEROTA: Your first impression.

SMERCONISH: Before I hear any spin. So for me, I thought Kasich had a decent evening. I don't expect it was a breakout moment. Carly Fiorina, not so much.

CUOMO: Sideways.

SMERCONISH: Right. Rubio, big night. Carson, I thought down night. I didn't think that he could compete on a granular basis with Rubio and with Cruz, who I thought were excellent debaters last night.

Trump, a down arrow. You're right. He usually gets a down arrow from me.

Ted Cruz, big night. Jeb, we haven't discussed Jeb Bush.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We need to discuss.

SMERCONISH: I think Jeb Bush had his best performance yet. I've not been favorable towards his debate performances.

CUOMO: Benefiting from no expectations or absolutely good night?

SMERCONISH: You know, maybe the bar -- maybe the bar has been set lower, Chris, but I thought he had a genuinely good night. I thought he delivered a complete performance. It hadn't been a full game from his thus far.

Chris Christie, I disagree.

HEWITT: OK.

SMERCONISH: Not so much as far as I was concerned.

And Rand Paul, I appreciated him being on that stage. I know he got in by the hair of his chinny-chin-chin. But I appreciate having someone on that stage advancing the argument that maybe every time we open a base overseas, we're not making ourselves more safe; we're making ourselves less safe.

[07:15:15] CAMEROTA: We haven't talked enough about Jeb Bush. And people thought that he held his own against Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Look, had he done this in August, had he done this in September at the Reagan Library, this could be a different campaign. There is no question about it. This was the Jeb Bush I think people thought they needed to see early on to prove he could take on this field, prove he could appeal to the wide group of the Republican voting base right now.

Is it enough now? You know, he's down, as Donald Trump said, down at 3 percent in some polls. He's got a lot of ground to pick up. And he's got tough competitors to do it against. It's not Trump that he has to compete against. It's Marco Rubio; it's Chris Christie and, to a lesser extent, John Kasich. So you know, it's hard to see if he can make up that difference with the time he has left.

CUOMO: One of Bush's people grabbed me last night after the debate and made a compelling point. Of course, that's their job. But I thought it was compelling. He does not benefit from the big crowd. And they say the smaller the crowd gets, as long as he's in it, the more he will rise. And maybe now if he's a group of five, his fates change.

Once the primaries begin, it's always only about three or four. So maybe -- maybe that winds up being his -- his boost.

CAMEROTA: And I have very good news for him. He's about to meet a group of three, you, me and him. He's in the elevator.

CUOMO: Really?

CAMEROTA: So gentlemen, thank you very much...

HEWITT: A pleasure. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: ... for all of the analysis. Great to see you.

Jeb Bush, some felt brought the heat last night for the first time, as John was saying. Will it be enough? What will happen to his campaign now? We are going to talk to Jeb Bush, live right after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:00] CAMEROTA: Jeb Bush had some intense moments last night. He traded blows with Donald Trump, and many people say today that it might be enough to revive what was a bit of an anemic candidacy. So will it turn around his poll numbers? We have an opportunity to ask him.

CUOMO: Alisyn Camerota, showing the discretion that comes with the candidate sitting immediately to your right. We have Republican presidential candidate, former governor, Jeb Bush.

CAMEROTA: I was dancing around there.

BUSH: Alisyn, yes, you stalled out right there. You were about ready to take a shot, and you didn't even feel it.

CAMEROTA: It's always a little tough with you sitting right there. But let's talk about your -- what many say is your big -- possibly biggest night. How did you feel last night?

BUSH: I feel good. First of all, kudos to CNN for having a substantive debate. I mean, there was not a single process question. People are scared. They want to know what people believe about how to protect the homeland. The -- we had a substantive debate about foreign policy and the importance of American leadership. There's differences of opinion. Those all got expressed. And I thought it was a great debate.

And I got to post up against Donald Trump. I don't think he's a serious candidate. And I don't know why others don't feel compelled to point that out, but I did. And I got -- I think I got -- got a chance to express my views and compare them to someone who talks a big game but really hasn't thought it through.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something. People who know you say, if you were in trouble, Jeb is a guy that you want on your side. And when you have come across in these debates, you come across as, "Hey, there's a decorum here, I'm not going to sink to the level." For some, it is played as weakness. Last night when he said, "Am I talking or are you talking?" You took a different take.

What goes through your head and heart in processing how to respond to Donald Trump?

BUSH: That's a great question. You know, first of all, it's not really a debate. It's a performance. You've got to -- you have to have -- take the moment to be able to say what you want to say rather than answer the question.

I was brought up in a family where you, you know, someone asked you a question, you answer it. You've got to void all the -- you really have to be respectful of the question but get to the -- get to the point you want to make.

And in the case of Donald Trump, he's a bully. Look, I mean, you guys interview him all the time. I mean, he -- he has his way. And to push up -- post up against him a little bit and push back, you get a sense of, you know, he's not quite all in command.

CUOMO: Does he worry you at all in those moments? That "he's going to get the better of me"? What's emotionally going through...

BUSH: No, I don't. There's not enough time to be thinking about it in that way, in an abstract way. You're in the -- you know, you're in the middle of it, and you go at it.

What bothers me is that our party will win if we have a hopeful optimistic message, if we -- on foreign policy, if we have a message that believes in America's exceptionalism. And I don't think he does. I think he views the world in very negative, pessimistic terms.

In essence, he's the mirror image of Barack Obama in a strange way, that they both have competing forms of pessimism and express it in clearly different ways.

But we need to have a hopeful optimistic message, believing in the strength of our country and how we keep ourselves safe by projecting American leadership in the world. And the debate last night, I think brought some clarity to that.

CAMEROTA: Let's take a look at the moment that you and Donald Trump butted heads. You might not have seen this recently.

CUOMO: In case you forgot.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BUSH: Let's see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's a very nice person, but we need tough people. We need toughness. We need intelligence, and we need tough. Jeb said when they come across the southern border they come as an act of love.

BUSH: You said in September 30th that ISIS was not a factor.

TRUMP: Am I talking or are you talking, Jeb?

BUSH: I'm talking right now. I'm talking.

TRUMP: You can go back. You're not talking. You interrupted.

BUSH: September 30 you said it.

TRUMP: Are you going to apologize, Jeb? No.

Am I allowed to finish?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One at a time. Go ahead.

TRUMP: Excuse me, am I allowed to finish? BLITZER: Go ahead, Mr. Trump.

TRUMP: So...

BUSH: A little bit of your own medicine there.

TRUMP: I know you're trying to build up your energy, Jeb, but it's not working very well.

BLITZER: Please, one at a time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Right. So that was different than what you've done in the past. When he said, "Don't interrupt me" and "Are you talking, or I'm talking," in the past you might have just given him, ceded him the floor because it is rude to interrupt. But you did something different there last night.

[07:25:04] BUSH: I did. I did. And look, Donald Trump's not going to be president of the United States by insulting every group on the planet. You know, insulting women, POWs, war heroes, Hispanics, disabled, African-Americans. You can't insult your way to the presidency. And I think people have to stand up against that.

Look, there -- people are angry. They have lots of anxiety for good reason, but preying on that is not how you win. You have to give people a sense that we can fix these big complex things, both in foreign policy and in our domestic economy.

CUOMO: Now, I know that it somehow cheapens the situation, but I really do see a lot of analogies to prize fighting in these moments. You guys are heavyweights. This is about big blows. This is about energy and emotion.

And when you said, "I'm talking right now, I'm talking right now," and you saw Donald Trump turn back to Wolf and say, "Am I allowed to finish talking here or not?" It reminded me of a scene in one of the "Rocky" movies, where Rocky, like, hits the guy and the bell rings, and the guy kind of looks at him and walks back to his corner.

And it seemed that you felt that. You then came up with two great lines that I'm figuring Ana Navarro probably wrote, so I want to get confirmation on it. You called him the chaos candidate. And you said, "I don't get my information about what's going on from watching the weekend shows. The question is with Donald, are they Saturday morning or Sunday morning?"

BUSH: I have to admit those were mine.

CUOMO: Those were quality.

CAMEROTA: Well done.

BUSH: I don't know.

CUOMO: That was strong.

BUSH: It actually just came to me.

CUOMO: Saturday or Sunday just came?

BUSH: The Sunday shows, he said.

CUOMO: Right.

BUSH: But the Saturday part, I just kind of made it up as I went along.

CUOMO: Really? Now you...

CAMEROTA: How about chaos?

CUOMO: Now you kind of regret saying it.

BUSH: That was a -- that was kind of committee effort, I guess.

CUOMO: That was a good zinger you said, the Saturday or Sunday. But you mentioned it almost with a whisper of regret. Why?

BUSH: No, no. It's not a regret. It's just, look, the performance side of this is not why I'm running for president.

CAMEROTA: And you're -- and that's the part you're not comfortable with, really, that it has to be a performance.

BUSH: Look, we are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We need a president that can unite us around a set of common purposes. And the debates are important, because millions of people watch it. I mean, I get that.

But performing is not what a president does. Leading is what a president does. And so it's not that I'm not comfortable with it. It's not my motivation. It's not who I am. It's not -- I don't wake up each day saying, "Well, now I can have a zinger and attack somebody." That's not -- that's not who I am.

And -- but you've got to do it. You've got to be in the moment when these things happen. I totally understand that. And I'm getting better at it, I hope.

CAMEROTA: Were you surprised by how much Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz engaged and went after each other?

BUSH: Not really, because it was all kind of set up by the questions. It was designed that way. And I thought -- I thought the interchanges that we all had were very substantive.

And it's important, because Americans need to understand that there are differences of opinion about the role of America in the world, and -- and I think the interchange was good.

Chris Christie said something really interesting, and I totally agree with him, which was they started talking like they were back benchers, you know, filing amendments and calling it success, and it kind of got really into the weeds. But that's what they do in Washington. You know? They forget that English is the language that unites us as a country.

CUOMO: Allegiance of governors there with Christie...

CAMEROTA: Right, right.

CUOMO: ... and Bush with guys who actually do executive jobs.

The big question on the voters' mind going into last night is "I'm afraid. I think that bad things can happen anywhere at any time in the country right now."

What do you say to the American people to make them not act out of that fear, to want to target Muslims, because that's who it seems is coming after us? What do you say to the American who feels that?

BUSH: If I was president of the United States right now, the speech that the president gave on Sunday that now, you know, thanks to Donald Trump, actually, kind of got off the radar, was one that didn't -- didn't alleviate people's concerns. I think a president has to give people a sense, look, I'm on this. We got this. We can do this. We have the capability of protecting the homeland. And here's how we'll do it.

And he talked about gun control. He was animated.

CUOMO: What do you say to fear. "I'm afraid, I'm afraid if it's going to happen." What do you say to assuage the fear that makes me not hate Muslims?

BUSH: You -- you send the signal that you're working on this, that you have the FBI on the case, that you're cooperating with local law enforcement, that there's no reason -- that the terrorists want us to be frozen in place.

They do this. They're attacking our freedom. That's our vulnerability. And if we start acting less free, and, you know, the tragedy of Los Angeles was that it's a victory for ISIS. And who knows? I mean, there will be another example of this.

I think the president needs to be much more engaged than he appears to be right now and tell people what the strategy is to destroy ISIS in the caliphate. If we do that, I think people will begin to believe that, you know, our country is safe and that we can move on with our lives.

CAMEROTA: Governor Jeb Bush, great to have you on NEW DAY this morning.

BUSH: Thank you. Go get some sleep.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we will. You, too.

BUSH: I will.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

CUOMO: Best for Christmas.

BUSH: Take care. Likewise. Happy holidays.

CAMEROTA: In our next hour, we will talk to two other candidates: to Carly Fiorina and Lindsey Graham. They will also both join us live.