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Los Angeles Schools Closed Over Threat; Interview with Rev. Franklin Graham; Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 15, 2015 - 10:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:01] TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, you really can't. And if you look at the various attacks, whether they were committed by an individual psychopath or whether it was related to a terrorist attack on a school, we've had every type of school attacked in the last 10 or 15 years from pre-schools all the way up through universities. And then when you look at large school districts or even large universities, they have many buildings, and each building has many entrances where people come and go.

They open early in the morning for staff to start arriving, maybe 6:30, 7:00 in the morning. They have activities going sometimes with sports events, 10:00, 11:00 at night, midnight. They rent the schools out to other organizations over the weekend. So you have school buildings in use seven days a week from early in the morning until late at night with thousands of people coming, you know, almost in each school district. So it's a tremendous task. And you know, if you look at some of the shootings specifically, the idea even if it was in one building, that building might have six entrances.

So, you know, how do you -- you just don't have enough magnatometers, enough personnel to operate the magnatometers, to guard every door of every school at every level. And then if you did harden that down, OK, go back to movie theaters, go back to shopping malls. So -- but the problem we're seeing here is very -- you know, anybody can phone in or e-mail or put out a social message saying there's going to be a bomb whether it's an airplane or whether it's a school district and then now the authorities have to react.

Do we bring the plane or a group of planes down to the ground and land them? Do we shut school districts down? Do we evacuate and shut down shopping malls at the height of shopping season? You know, and that's part of the problem here. They react on the side of caution, however, it does send a message to whoever sent that message, look what you can do. Look how powerful you are. You can cause this to happen and this is just on one school district. Think of what else you might be able to do.

COSTELLO: Right. I want to bring in Peter Bergen. I don't want to make too much of this because we really don't know what's happening right now so I want to be careful in what we say. There's an unspecified threat. We don't know what it is. The superintendent has said it involved many, many schools. And out of an abundance of caution he was going to close down the entire Los Angeles County School District, involving 640,000 students who will stay home for the day. So, Peter, as you step back, as a terror analyst, put this in

perspective for us.

BERGEN: Well, we just -- we don't know. But, I mean, I think Tom makes a very good point, which is let's assume for a second that this is a false alarm. You're going to tie up one of the biggest cities in the country because everybody -- and everybody is going to be frightened and scared. And so if it's false, you've created a fair amount of insecurity and terror in the Los Angeles area. And if it's, you know, god forbid, something real, you know, that's much worse. But I think, you know, whoever is -- whoever has put this threat out is watching all this coverage I'm sure with great satisfaction.

COSTELLO: Yes. And I hope they catch them, and very soon. Or her.

Peter Bergen, Tom Fuentes, many thanks.

Again, the superintendent of schools in Los Angeles has closed all Los Angeles County schools, sending all students home because of some unspecified threat. The FBI has been called in. Los Angeles Police have been called in. They're now searching every single school to see if there's something up. Right now, all we know so far is it's some kind of unspecified threat that concerned authorities enough to close down Los Angeles County schools.

I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:54] COSTELLO: And we are following breaking news this morning. All schools in Los Angeles County closed today after some sort of unspecified threat was called in. Students told to go home. Teachers told to go home. Right now the FBI and other authorities are searching every single school, looking for anything suspicious. But all I can tell you right now, it's an unspecified threat. And out of an abundance of caution because of what happened in San Bernardino, because of what happened in Paris, the superintendent thought it best to send everybody home today.

He plans to make some sort of statement later with the FBI. Of course, when he does that, when the FBI comes forward, we'll take that live for you out of California, Los Angeles, California.

All right. Let's talk about the about big CNN debate tonight because sure to take center stage at tonight's debate Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the United States. I have the Reverend Franklin Graham with me now. He agrees with some of Trump's suggestions but he's also calling on Christians to pray fervently for Americans.

Welcome, Reverend Graham. Thank you so much for coming in.

REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRESIDENT, THE BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Busy morning. Tell me about your plan to hold prayer rallies in all 50 states. What does that involve?

GRAHAM: That starts January 5th in Des Moines in the capital, and we'll go to all 50 capitals and conclude in October. But I don't have really much hope for the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Tea Party, anybody else. Our system, Carol, is broken. And the only principles that really, really work are God's principles. And I'm asking for Christians to join me or anybody to join me at the capital and to pray, to pray for our nation.

COSTELLO: Christians, Jewish people --

GRAHAM: Anybody.

COSTELLO: Muslims?

GRAHAM: Everybody's welcome.

COSTELLO: Muslims?

GRAHAM: Absolutely. Absolutely. Muslims will be welcomed. People that must be willing to come and to pray and to pray for our nation and to pray for its leaders because our system is broken.

And then I want to encourage Christians to get out and vote. And to vote for politicians that support biblical principles, godly principles, because those principles work. We need more Christians in politics. I want to encourage Christians to run for political level. But I'm not talking just -- a Christian at the presidential level, I'm talking about at all levels of government. We need, again, godly principles.

COSTELLO: Why do we need more Christians holding office?

GRAHAM: Because it's the biblical principles that work. And people that follow those biblical principles --

COSTELLO: But we're a nation of all faiths.

GRAHAM: We are. But God's principles work. And that's --

COSTELLO: So when you say God's principles, and you know I'm a strong Catholic.

GRAHAM: Yes.

COSTELLO: And I love Pope Francis. Right?

GRAHAM: Yes.

COSTELLO: So when you say -- when you say God's principles work, I believe you, but I also know that sometimes praying -- oftentimes praying isn't enough. We need action. And God gave us gifts --

GRAHAM: That's why I'm going to all 50 states. That's action.

COSTELLO: To take action. GRAHAM: I'm going to all 50 states to do just that, to take action.

And of course --

COSTELLO: So will you pray for more Christian politicians? I don't understand.

GRAHAM: No, first of all, if you go back to the bible to Nehemiah, when he prayed, he confessed his sins to God, he confessed the sins of his father, he confessed the sins of his nation. And God gave him favor.

[10:40:05] And he went back and he rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem that had been torn down and re-hung the gates that had been burned with fire. And he did it in 52 days. God gave him favor.

Our nation is crumbling. And I think you and especially people in the media, you know how much problem our nation is facing right now. We're in turmoil. Washington does not work. You know that, Carol. We need to get people in office who are willing to work with one another and people who uphold biblical principles and so all 50 states, that's where I'm going to.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about biblical principles.

GRAHAM: Sure. The bible.

COSTELLO: Because you agree in part with Donald Trump on banning Muslims from coming into the United States. Is that fair?

GRAHAM: Well, first of all, I don't believe in banning Muslims from coming. I think we should put a halt on immigration because our borders are broken. Until we have a proper system to vet people.

COSTELLO: All immigration?

GRAHAM: All immigration. But especially people coming --

COSTELLO: Like Hispanics, Muslims, everybody?

GRAHAM: All people -- all people but especially those coming from the Middle East right now.

Carol, I'm working in Greece. We have people on the islands. As people come out of those rubber boats, I have people that are helping them.

COSTELLO: You're talking about the Syrian refugees.

GRAHAM: I'm talking -- well, they're not just Syrian. They're Syria, they're Iraqi, they're also Iranians and they're also Afghans coming into Greece. And we see a lot of families and no question they're fleeing for their life. They're wanting a better life. But we see a lot of young men, who are military age, by themselves coming in that way as well. And we don't know who these people are. And there needs to be some proper way to vet them. So I think we should be putting a halt on any immigration from that part of the world until our government has a system in place where we can vet them.

COSTELLO: I do think many Americans would agree with you, but I also think that some Americans look to Canada, for example, and their warm embrace of these refugees. And they look at the way that some politicians in the United States talk about -- especially people from the Middle East and they don't think that's very Christian.

GRAHAM: Well, I'm thinking that we have to protect American citizens just like the school in Los Angeles. I think they did the right thing, shutting things down until they find out if there really is a threat. And we --

COSTELLO: But that threat could be coming from anyone.

GRAHAM: Yes, but we know where the threats --

COSTELLO: From anything.

COSTELLO: We know this city right here, we know what happened on 9/11. And on 9/11 we have been at war. And we've had thousands of Americans that have been killed. Over 11,000 since 9/11. And I think we should take all the precautions we can to protect our citizens. And again, I love Muslim people.

COSTELLO: Some people --

GRAHAM: I work with Muslims.

COSTELLO: OK. You say -- and I believe you. But there's been some heated rhetoric about Muslims in this country and some in the Muslim community believe that kind of rhetoric is, you know, causing mosques to come under attack and they're afraid for their own safety, some Muslims. Can you just -- can you just answer? Is Islam compatible with American values?

GRAHAM: I don't think so.

COSTELLO: But see, they would say that rhetoric like that is hurting them.

GRAHAM: Well, you asked me a question and I answered you. But I don't go out and preach against Islam. I don't go around and preach against Muslims. I don't. And I certainly welcome them. But our Constitution, the way we treat women, the way we treat all people, Islam doesn't do that under Shariah law.

COSTELLO: I would say that about my own faith, within Catholicism, right? I could.

GRAHAM: Well --

COSTELLO: Let me play devil's advocate for just a little longer. Donald Trump thinks that some mosques should be shut down. Do you agree with that? GRAHAM: Well, I don't know, I haven't heard what Donald Trump has

said. I know that in France they have certainly shut down some mosques. Mosques that were preaching hatred and violence against the people in France, so the French government has shut down some mosques. I don't know how many but I know they have done it there.

COSTELLO: Does that mean we should do it here?

GRAHAM: We might have to at some point. I don't know.

Carol, we need -- our country is broken right now. Our borders are broken. We need to get it fixed. We need immigration to be fixed. We need to know who's coming into this country. We just can't open up our arms and just say, everybody come, because there are people out there that want to destroy our nation and want to destroy you and our way of life. We have a responsibility. Our government, the president, our Congress has a responsibility to protect all Americans.

COSTELLO: And just a final question. Is there any one candidate that reflects those Christian values you talk about?

GRAHAM: I'm not going to support any candidate this year. I used to be a Republican. I have renounced the Republican Party. I'm an independent because I have no confidence in the Republicans or the Democrats. We need I think new leadership and we need I think godly men and women in politics.

COSTELLO: Reverend Graham, thanks for stopping by.

GRAHAM: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

[10:44:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. Back to our breaking news. All public schools in Los Angeles County closed today after an unspecified credible threat was called in. And I'm just going to -- I'm going to read a release about it so I can get it exactly right. This is from the Los Angeles superintendent. His name is Ramon Cortines. He said the district received a credible electronic threat that involved not just one school but many schools in the school district that talked about backpacks and other packages.

This prompted him to close down all schools today. He says, quote, "I have asked the chief to be working with the city police department and the sheriff before the day is over. I want every school searched to make sure that it is safe for children and safe for staff to be there on Wednesday." He adds, "Nothing is more important than the safety of our kids."

I want to bring in our security analyst, Tom Fuentes.

So, Tom Fuentes, it's a credible threat. And whoever called in the threat talked about backpacks and other packages. What does that say to you?

FUENTES: That say to me that not only do they have to search 900 buildings, if they're indicating as they are that all buildings will be searched in the district, but that would mean every locker.

[10:50:05] Students take backpacks to school, they leave them in their lockers, and a backpack can contain explosive devices. So if you have 700,000 students and I don't know how many thousand staff members, you look at that head lockers or closets, and you're looking at, you know, 800,000, 900,000, one million student lockers in addition to or inside of the 900 buildings. This is just a mammoth task. I can't imagine how they're going to pull this off.

COSTELLO: Why aren't police and the superintendent releasing exactly what the threat was?

FUENTES: Well, there's usually -- for that. And one of the main reasons is that if somebody eventually admits to being the person, you know, just to have their own 15 minutes of fame, if someone admits to being the person that sent it, they want specific details withheld that only that person would know. If they release every detail of what was in the communication to the public, especially certain details that really don't matter in terms of the safety or evacuation of the schools, they really don't want to have -- and they will get a lot of people that will call in and say, I did it.

And, you know, unfortunately, in these instances, you know, it takes a disturbed person to call in the threat and it takes even more disturbed, which there's plenty of, persons to take credit for a threat they didn't even do.

COSTELLO: All right. Tom, stand by. I have CNN justice reporter Scott Glover on the phone with me right now.

What more can you tell us, Scott?

SCOTT GLOVER, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Carol, right now in Los Angeles there are a lot more questions than answers. What we know we said there was -- early this morning there was an announcement that school would not be held at campuses all across Los Angeles and the L.A. Unified School District. District officials are saying that it's an abundance of caution that they want all the campuses searched.

The FBI is assisting, the LAPD, the school police. Exactly what the logistics of that will be and how long it will take and what precisely the threat was, those are all questions that remain unanswered.

COSTELLO: Yes, I know that some students had already arrived at school, Scott, and they were being told to go to a certain gate so their parents could come and get them? Is that correct?

GLOVER: That's what I've been told as well. So it sounds like, you know, there was a little bit of confusion there. Maybe the announcement came out a little late. I know that some buses were returning from their routes empty. But again, this is just a, you know, rapidly developing situation. So I do not -- and the district is quite far-flung. As you know, Los Angeles is spread out and there are schools all over the place so we're trying to gather those details as we speak.

COSTELLO: Yes, I have a few tweets to share with our viewers from the Los Angeles County School District. It says -- it advises parents and guardians to bring a proper I.D. when picking up their kid at school. And I want to bring back in Tom Fuentes, that adds another wrinkle to security there and what they're trying to accomplish.

FUENTES: Well, that does. And that means that they still have students at the schools. Hopefully they're outside of the buildings now. But that means that you're going to have many vehicles arriving, people coming to pick up their children, but other people could be arriving as well. So that's another difficult task. And you know, and that means tens of thousands of parents that have to leave their jobs, leave work, that they may have sent their kids to school or put them on the bus and gone off to their place of business.

Now they have to leave work and go there. So it's a major disruption to the schools, to the students, to the parents, to the businesses of Los Angeles. So this is a major event. Even if it's a complete hoax.

COSTELLO: Even if it's a complete hoax. And I know the superintendent, Scott, said that -- the people of Los Angeles had to draw together at this particular time to get kids out of the school and to safety.

GLOVER: Yes, that's true. I mean, it sounds like a rather monumental kind of decision. I mean, I think it's -- you know, that schools receive threats is a not uncommon occurrence, but for them to respond in this way certainly in my experience is uncommon. And as, you know, other speakers have noted, I think this is a -- it's a massive operation with a lot of moving parts to try and deal with this, you know, throughout the day.

COSTELLO: And, Tom, the superintendent said that, too. You know, we get threats every day. Sometimes we lock down schools, sometimes we close certain schools. What do you think made this threat different for the superintendent to close all schools in the district?

FUENTES: I'm want sure. You know, and I know we'll find out probably in the near future but I think it could either be the source of it, the manner of it, the wording of it. There could be several other details, as I mentioned, that were omitted deliberately from the public release that may indicate to them not to fool around with this one.

[10:55:08] And, of course, the closeness in time to the attack in -- of San Bernardino, both distance and time since that happened. So I think that's another issue.

COSTELLO: Absolutely.

And then, Scott, I was in Los Angeles over the weekend and people are on edge because of that. So perhaps it's understandable that the superintendent acted out of this abundance of caution. GLOVER: Well, absolutely. And I think that there was a reference to

what happened in San Bernardino. And of course, you know, they are our neighbor. So it would make sense if, you know, that kind of thinking was going on.

COSTELLO: Well, are people nervous in Los Angeles, Scott, anyway?

GLOVER: I mean, certainly what happened in San Bernardino is a very common topic of conversation. Whether you know people are more nervous here than they are elsewhere, you know, I can't really say but I can tell you that it's -- you know, it's been on the minds of people around here in the same way that I've seen this on the minds of people around the country.

COSTELLO: Absolutely.

And, Tom, before I have to go, please put this in perspective for us from a police perspective.

FUENTES: Well, from a police perspective, they hope that there aren't hundreds of copycats across the country that watch this, see the coverage and go, wow, I can do something that's going to get nonstop coverage and relish in the glory of doing that, as do kids that pull fire alarms occasionally, do it just for the fun of it, to watch the spectacle. So that's one of the fears. Obviously, the main fear is it actually could be real and something could happen that's very dangerous.

But, you know, getting back to the search, you know, imagine all of these school lockers for 640,000 students, many of which would have backpacks. Now what? Does the police officer doing the search of that building, of that locker pull the backpack out? You can't. There won't be enough bomb technicians in the western half of the United States to use all of the safety precautions to open every backpack of every locker of every closet that they would find in the school district.

So in many ways this is a mission of not being able to be as precise as they normally would be if they were only clearing one building. Especially if it was one building where they already had an active shooter situation or, you know, an actual act occur.

COSTELLO: Right. Right. Gotcha.

FUENTES: That's one being so unspecified, I can't see where they would be able to do.

COSTELLO: I got to end it there, Tom Fuentes.

Again, police are searching every single school in the Los Angeles area to see if anything's up. There's an unspecified threat that was called in. We'll have much more on this throughout the day.

I'm Carol Costello. Berman and Bolduan after a break.

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