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Obama to Address the Nation Sunday 8PM ET, CNN Live; London Police Treating Attack as "Terrorist Incident"; People on "No-Fly" Lists Cleared to Buy Guns; Obama to Address Nation. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 5, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:07] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is 7:00 here in New York. I'm Poppy Harlow.

We begin this hour with breaking news out of our nation's capital. We have just heard that something extraordinary will happen tomorrow, an event so rare and so history making that President Obama has only done it twice in his entire time in office. The president of the United States will address the nation from inside the Oval Office. It will happen at 8:00 Eastern Time. Of course, CNN will carry this presidential address live.

Let's go straight to CNN's Chris Frates. He joins me live in Washington this evening.

We just learned about this in the last few moments. Do we know what the president is say and what he is focusing on tomorrow night?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy. Yes, we are getting some indication of that. But as you say, really big breaking news out of the White House. President Obama will make a rare address to the nation tomorrow night at 8:00 about what the government is doing to keep Americans safe.

The Oval Office address will also touch on the investigation into the ISIS-inspired attacks in California that killed 14 people earlier this week. The White House said Obama will also address, quote, "The broader threat of terrorism," including the nature of the threat, how it has evolved, and how we will defeat it. He will reiterate his confirmed conviction that ISIL will be destroyed and that the United States must draw upon our values, our unwavering commitment to justice, equality and freedom, to prevail over terrorist groups that use violence to advance a destructive ideology.

Now, Poppy, the news comes on the heels of a meeting the president held with his national security team this morning. The White House says the presidency updated him on the investigation into the California shootings and highlighted several pieces of information that point to the attackers' radicalization to violence.

Now, we already know about one piece of evidence suggesting radicalization. That was a Facebook post by the female shooter pledging allegiance to the leader of ISIS. Now, during the briefing, which that included the FBI and CIA directors, the attorney general, and the homeland security secretary, the White House said officials reiterated that there is no evidence yet that the killers were part of a larger terrorist cell.

Remember, on Friday, the FBI said incident was investigating the attacks as an act of terrorism. And, Poppy, people will be watching what the president has to say about that and the investigation more generally tomorrow night, as well as listen to go hear how the president plans to deal with the larger issue of defeating ISIS.

So, that's what we have tonight, Poppy. Lots of big breaking news in the nation's capital. Lots of eyes on the White House tomorrow night as well.

HARLOW: No question. Chris Frates, thank you very much. We, of course, will carry that live for you here on CNN.

I want to go straight to CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen, an adviser to four presidents with very unique perspective on something like this.

David Gergen, as we heard from Chris, this happened only twice in this president's term in office. It happened both times in 2010. First announcing the end of U.S. combat operations in Iraq. Second, after the gulf oil spill.

David Gergen, how big is this?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (via telephone): It's big, Poppy, because President Obama has been reluctant to use the Oval Office. His predecessors used it far more frequently to address the company. All of which would suggest this is a bigger speech. And also suggests I believe that it'd be in the field in the Middle East or whether it'd be here at home, to come to the nation at 8:00 in the evening, on a Sunday night from the Oval Office, it's going to be about more than reassuring we're safe and he is taking actions.

And we talk about the past, he's really got to set for himself because the expectations. Eight o'clock, Oval Office, President Obama, it is going to be big.

HARLOW: Absolutely. David Gergen, if you were writing the speech. You have been inside the rooms making these decisions before with other presidents. What does the nation need to hear from its commander in chief?

GERGEN: Well, it needs to know that, first and foremost, that people want to know are my kids going to be safe? And the second thing they want to know is, am I going to be safe?

And so, he has to give assurance this is going to improve people's personal security. There is a lot of fear in this country right now. It's also reminiscent of 9/11. I think the level of fear is about the same thing, the same level as before. But it's -- I must tell you that I think that in order to convince

people, he's going to have to take bold steps. Undoubtedly boots on the ground in the Middle East. But it certainly must mean a crackdown on domestic terrorism, homegrown terrorism.

It's going to be hard for him to convince the country that we should take in refugees from Syria.

HARLOW: Right.

GERGEN: You know? It's going to make that case a lot harder.

[19:05:02] So, he's got -- I don't think -- I don't think he's going to give a bland address, 12 minutes. Something that works, he's going to do something that's got some crack to it.

HARLOW: David, the context of this, this announcement, we're learning this today, just a few hours after he had that meeting with his national security team today. One would think that contributed to this decision to make an announcement. Can you take us into the process with the president and his senior advisers when you say, all right, we're going to make only the third Oval Office address in your presidency, potentially the last Oval Office address in his presidency. He doesn't have that much more time in office.

How do you come to that decision?

GERGEN: Well, I think the first decision is what is it you want to achieve? I would assume as soon as they learn that there were some terrorist ties with this couple in San Bernardino, that the president, all of his advisers said, look, we have to take steps here. The country is scared by this. And we have to do concrete things. You guys come up with a list. Let's come up with a menu of options.

This morning, they got together, probably in the Situation Room or somewhere else in the White House in which they reviewed what those steps might be. They made the decision, OK, we have a concrete action plan. Let's decide how to announce it. I would assume the action is big enough they thought this deserved an Oval Office.

HARLOW: David Gergen, thank you so much for that. Again, you will be with us tomorrow night. There will be special coverage hosted by my colleague Wolf Blitzer tomorrow night. That special coverage at 7:00 p.m. ahead of this Oval Office address which we will carry for you live in its entirety at 8:00 p.m.

David Gergen, our entire political team will be with us tomorrow night for that. Thank you very much.

Also, I want to take you now to San Bernardino, California. A federal law enforcement source confirming to CNN that just today, a search warrant has been served at the home of a man who bought two of the rifles used in Wednesday's massacre. We are gathering more details in Washington. National security advisers briefing the president today, telling him there is no evidence so far of a larger terror network at play outside these two shooters, even though ISIS has not taken responsibility for the attack, they did praise it today on their video program, calling the two individuals you see on your screen supporters.

Stephanie Elam joining me from outside the couple's home in Redlands, California.

All right. Talk to me, Steph, about the significance of this warrant.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's important to note, Poppy, that these rifles we know were not purchased just before these events. They had been purchased previously. And what the search warrant was about, what we believe it was about is searching the house of the person who bought these rifles in the past, the person who had acquired these.

We do not know if anything was removed from the house. We do not know if they found what they were looking for. But we know it happened in the early morning hours here in California where they had the search to gain some information. And I believe the reason why they may be doing this is just to make sure that they are rounding out all of their edges, knowing where all the pieces fall into the puzzle and making sure that there isn't another head of the snake that may be out there who played a part in this nefarious and awful attack here in San Bernardino.

HARLOW: That's what I was wondering because as you heard, the national security team advising the president today saying that there is -- it doesn't appear at this time that this was part of a larger web like what we saw in Paris. I mean, what are people on the ground there, Stephanie, saying? I know neighbors had absolutely no idea there was anything awry here.

ELAM: Yes. As of now, it appears to be a case of lone wolves. Maybe not a lone wolf, but a lone wolves situation, where they were operating together.

But the neighbors here, the neighbors that have spoken have said, you know what, they pretty much kept to themselves. They looked like a normal family with a young child. Remember, they had a 6-month-old daughter that they have left behind. So, a lot of signs saying they just stayed quiet, to themselves, and were blending in. And that may be the scariest part about this whole development that they were doing this on their own, inspired what they had seen overseas.

HARLOW: All right. Stephanie, will you stay with me?

I want to join in this conversation with CNN security and intelligence analyst Bob Baer.

Bob, you heard what Stephanie said. Potentially lone wolves, no one knew around them what was going on. Law enforcement had no idea. How is that possible when you have what they have described, law enforcement has described as a home made bomb lab with 4,000 rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs, and numerous tools to make IEDs. How is it possible that no one knew? BOB BAER, CNN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Poppy, somebody

knew, seriously. I mean, number one is the attack, let's do not forget it was a military assault.

[19:10:02] You don't pick this up by getting stuff off the Internet. Someone had practice with those weapons. They had to reload them. The speed, throwing the bombs out to disengage from the police and on and on and on. There was some training.

I can speculate who got it. Maybe it was her in Pakistan with that militant group that did Bombay. I do not know at this point, and the smashed phones, smashed hard drives. They were trying to hide a larger network. But the case remains -- go ahead.

HARLOW: They weren't that sophisticated, Bob. Because they tried to alter these weapons to make them sort is of fully automatic, if you will. They didn't succeed at that. These pipe bombs apparently were in effective, weren't working.

BAER: The pipe bombs, yes. They were very primitive. But the actual attack, entering the target, the surprise speed and extreme violence at the objective is a classic military assault.

They got out before the police could intercept them. They were apparently on to a second attack.

This is not the profile of beginners. Somebody knew something. Somebody practiced, maybe in California. And they had some communications with the smashed cell phones.

I just do not buy playing this down as a one off, almost an accident. I think it's more serious. I think there are more networks out there. And that somebody was radicalized in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. So, in that sense the radicalization did occur overseas.

HARLOW: What does the target tell you?

ELAM: Can I just make one point here about this?

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely, Stephanie. Yes.

ELAM: Because I think it's interesting to note here about this property, because I've walked about it. I am standing in front of the place where the killers were living.

One thing I noticed about the garage. It is like an alley where the garages face each other. There's nothing else back there. It is not like a house where you have the garage in front and you can drive up and see what's going on there.

Not to say that no one didn't know what was going on, I'm not disputing that. I just want to clarify one thing, that we do believe this activity was going on in the garage, which is separate from the townhome. You have to walk outside to get to it. It is its own building. We did not see in there when we went in there yesterday. But the

point being, it's not like people, neighbors are out and can see what's going on there because it is removed in the back and all the garages face each other in this alley.

HARLOW: I think that's a great point. We're looking at aerial shot of that from Thursday when the FBI was going through that garage.

Bob Baer, to you, I was going to ask about the target. What do you make of the fact that the target was his colleagues at a holiday gathering, work event? Usually in these terrorist attacks, we have seen sort of targets where they don't know anyone.

BAER: Well, Poppy, in this case, you have to look at the Islamic State and their propaganda is they want to create the most violence and shock. And they did exactly that in killing friends and colleagues.

I mean, it's the enemy that's among us that we can't see, which is so shocking to Americans. This is why the president is going to address the nation. This is much more shocking to us as Americans than attacking, for instance, a federal building because, you know, that's within their framework.

But this group is so violent and so unpredictable. And they will go to any degree that they prove this in killing friends and colleagues. I find that much more disturbing than if they had shot up somebody in a uniform.

HARLOW: And, Bob, you're a former CIA operative. I'm interested in what the intelligence community wants to hear from their commander in chief tomorrow night?

BAER: Are we safe? Exactly. As David Gergen said, are we safe? And I don't think we are. And I think this president has to put the country on a war footing.

I mean, I'm not panicking. This isn't the end of the republic. But if we want to know what the FBI can do to identify these people and stop them in advance.

If those people had taken the same garage and made were TATP bombs out of there, acetone and peroxide bombs, they could have done a lot more damage and killed a lot of police, and hit a major structure. They didn't have the skills to make the bombs, not like the Paris people.

They could have potentially done the same damage as occurred in Paris.

HARLOW: The words you use, war footing. Stephanie Elam, very quickly to you, what about the people there. I mean, you've been there all week. What do they want to hear from the president?

ELAM: Oh, I think a lot of people just want to know they're safe. It is the same thing Bob is saying. It's like, is this the new normal? A lot of people not wanting to believe that.

And out there, you know, we're not in a big city. This is not big city. This is not Los Angeles. We are removed from here.

And these are the places that people don't think stuff like this happens. They don't think this happens in their neighborhood. That's what makes people so unsettled.

HARLOW: Bob Baer, thank you. Stephanie Elam, thank you very much.

Again, special coverage of the president's address will be 8:00 tomorrow night.

Straight ahead, police in Florida shoot and kill a man today in broad daylight after he allegedly attempted to rob a bank.

[19:15:06] All of it caught on camera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The subject went into the bank, handed over a note, saying he had a bomb and that he was robbing the bank.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Alina Machado on the ground just spoke with the man who shot the cell phone video of the killing. That interview is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The man who captured a deadly police shooting on his cell phone camera today talking one on one with CNN about what he saw. The shooting happened earlier today in broad daylight in Miami Beach in front of dozens of bystanders. Police gunned down a man they say just tried to rob a bank and was armed with a straight razor.

Let's go straight live to CNN's Alina Machado.

You spoke with the man. He shot the cell phone video. Now, really still the only vantage point we have of the killing, right?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy. That's what we have seen so far. There were several people out here today who actually witnessed what happened.

Now, this all started with an attempted bank robbery reported at about 10:30 this morning. Police say the man had handed over a note to the teller demanding money and also claiming to have a bomb. When police arrived on the scene, that man was found at a nearby barbershop where police say he grabbed a straight edged razor.

Now, the man who recorded that disturbing shooting described for us what he said he saw happen next. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCELLUS JOHNSON, RECORDED DEADLY POLICE SHOOTING: He came outside on. He was basically yelling gestures out to the police officers and the officers were, you know, like giving him directions, please put down the weapon. You know, calm down. We're on your side, we're trying to help you. That lasted about five minutes.

Right after five minutes, they decided to go ahead and shoot him. The cops didn't want to kill him or shoot him. They didn't ask him to die. But he put himself in that situation.

Obviously, now we know he was trying to rob a bank. It led all the way to that point where I shot the video.

The feeling that I have behind it is a little sketchy. Because the police officers are getting a bad wrap across the world. But this particular situation, they tried to calm him down for a good amount of time. They gave him enough opportunity to surrender.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:20:02] MACHADO: Now, the shooting is still under investigation. You can see police are still here at the scene hours later. Police have not yet released the name of the man who was killed. The officer who fired his weapon we have learned is a six-year veteran. We have also learned that there is police body cam video of the shooting. But that video, Poppy, is not being released for now.

HARLOW: Alina, do we know anything else about what the police are saying? I think hearing from that eyewitness is such an important perspective, because he takes us into the five minutes before what we see happen. What else are police saying?

MACHADO: Yes. Police aren't releasing many details about those moments right before the shooting happened, right before those shots were fired. But they did say that the man was armed with that razor.

And you could see it in the video. He is waving the razor around. There are a number of officers around him. The man we talked to said the officers were trying to talk to the guy, trying to get him to calm down, trying to get him to listen to their commands. Something happened in those seconds that the officer felt threatened and fired his weapon.

HARLOW: All right. Alina Machado, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Breaking news on a potential terror attack today in London. We will tell you what happened in the London Tube station straight ahead.

Stay with me. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. Breaking news and a possible terror attack in London. Today, police say a man armed with a large knife stabbed three people in an East London underground tube station. It happened around 7:00 local time.

You're looking at video from Twitter. It appears to show the alleged incident. Police subdued the suspect with a stun gun and arrested him. [19:25:05] One stabbing victim does have serious injuries. Two others

suffered minor injuries, we're told.

Joining me now on the phone from London, our international correspondent Phil Black.

Phil, what do you know?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): We've got a pretty good idea of what this look like and just how chaotic it was in the ticket hall of Leytonstone tube station. This is in London East, because of these videos have been posted online.

And in them, you can see the man seemingly after he's carried out the knife, the moment he's confronted by police. They show and we won't show you this. But it shows a lot of blood on the ground following one of the stabbing incidents there.

He has been confronted by police. You can hear them screaming, telling him to drop the knife. And then taser is discharged possibly twice. And then he's detained.

Now, the result of all of this, we're told, is that three injured, one of them seriously. But the injuries there are not life threatening, which is good news. And the police have said they are treating this as a terror attack.

HARLOW: Right.

BLACK: Potential terror incident. The reason perhaps is, according to witnesses being reported widely in the British media, this man was heard to say "This is for Syria" repeatedly.

Now, the police haven't confirmed that specifically. But as I said, they are treating it as a terror attack. You can't hear him saying in in any of the videos. But on one of the videos, you can hear a man screaming at the attacker on the ground. Once he's been detained, the man telling him, "You are no Muslim" -- Poppy.

HARLOW: All right. When you look at this, people in London, I mean, London has been the victim of terror attacks in the past. I know it's early hours here, but how are they reacting?

BLACK: Well, just a lot of shock. This happened at 7:00 p.m. I think on a Saturday night.

HARLOW: Right.

BLACK: Very busy time for the London underground. Christmas party season. A lot of people out and about.

And the timing is also different. This is the week that Britain has just begun launching terror attacks against ISIS in Syria itself. There was a parliamentary debate days ago. The government won a vote to begin and to join that international coalition striking ISIS. Strikes began almost immediately. And now, we have this incident. One of the concerns that has been discussed through this, and Britain

was talking about perhaps joining military against ISIS in Syria, could it make Britain a bigger terror target. The government's argument was Britain is already very close to the top of the list of potential aspirational terror targets from ISIS's point of view. So you're not increasing the risk any further. That was the government view.

Having said that, here we are a couple of days later with an attack, that is being reported as a terror and witnesses being recorded that ISIS -- sorry, the attacks by Britain on ISIS in Syria were the motivation.

HARLOW: Phil Black live for us in London, thank you, Phil. Appreciate it. We'll bring you more on what is being treated as a terror attack tonight in London, as soon as we have it.

News just in to CNN, President Obama will address the nation from the Oval Office tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. This is a very rare event. This is only the third time in his entire presidency that he will make such an address from the oval office. Much more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:30:33] HARLOW: Updating you of the breaking news out of the White House this evening. For only the third time in his presidency, President Barack Obama will address the nation tomorrow night from the Oval Office.

CNN will of course carry it live at 8:00 Eastern Time Sunday night. We know the speech will be mainly about terror and about the massacre in San Bernardino this week. I asked CNN's Chris Frates what we know the president might say.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Obama will make a rare address to the nation tomorrow night at 8:00 about what the government is doing to keep Americans safe. The Oval Office address will also touch on the investigation into the ISIS-inspired attacks in California that killed 14 people earlier this week.

The White House said Obama will also address "the broader threat of terrorism, including the nature of the threat, how it has evolved, and how we will defeat it." He will reiterate his firm conviction that ISIL will be destroyed and that the United States must draw upon our values, our unwaivering commitment to justice, equality, and freedom, to prevail over terrorist groups that use violence to answer a destructive ideology.

Poppy, the news comes on the heels of a meeting the president held with his national security team this morning. The White House said the president seem updated him on the California shootings and highlighted several pieces of information that point to the attackers' radicalization to violence.

Now we already know about one piece of evidence suggesting radicalization. That was a Facebook post by the female shooter pledging allegiance to the leader of ISIS. Now, during the briefing, that included the FBI and CIA directors, the attorney general, and the Homeland Security secretary. The White House said officials reiterated that there is no evidence yet that the killers were part of a larger terrorist cell.

Remember, on Friday, the FBI said it was investigating the attacks as an act of terrorism. And, Poppy, people will be watching the - what the president has to say about that and the investigation more generally tomorrow night as well as listening to hear how the president plans to deal with the larger issue of defeating ISIS.

So that's what we have tonight, Poppy. Lots of big breaking news in the nation's capital. Lots of eyes on the White House tomorrow night as well.

HARLOW: Chris Frates, thank you very much for that. Again, that is the president's address to the nation tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We will carry it in its entirety live on CNN.

Just weeks after helplessly watching terrorist gun down their fans, the American rock band, Eagles of Death Metal will reportedly return to Paris for what is sure to be an emotional performance, that is according to "Billboard Magazine." They will take the stage, we're told, with U2 who also had their concert plans in Paris interrupted that weekend of terror.

But tomorrow, Monday, U2 will perform for the city that adores their music and has long embraced its night life as a defiant response to the terrorists. U2 has long been a vocal opponent of violence with anthems like Sunday, "Bloody Sunday" about the conflict in Northern Ireland.

The band's lead singer, Bono and the Edge sat down with Fareed Zakaria to talk about their return to Paris. I sat down with Fareed to talk to him about all of it and more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Thank you for being here, Fareed. I appreciate it. It is an extraordinary interview. They don't speak publicly that often. What stood out to you the most?

[19:35:00]

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, I was struck by the passion with which they really wanted to play in Paris. What they call an act of joyous defiance. They really, to them it was very important, the kind of music they do. The connection they have to this whole problem of terrorism. Remember, they come out of the word of the IRA, Irish terrorism and the British response. So you hear them, you see them, almost a desire to just get there and make their statement.

Did you think about even playing the next day? Was it even possible? BONO, U2 LEAD SINGER: We first hoped we could play the next day.

Then it dawned on us just how serious it was. We just gave up on that.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Actually, we didn't have a choice. Within a few hours of the problems starting, we were given word by the city that they were shutting all events. So it wasn't -

BONO: It wasn't even our decision.

No we were very determined to get back as quick as we can. Paris is a very romantic city. You know, the essence of romance is defiance. Defiant joy, we think is the mark of our bands, rock and roll. They are a death cult. We are a life cult, life force. You know, just celebrating all things we love. Food, soccer. They are trying to destroy those things. They don't like women. What else is there? I mean, music, women. So really.

And we sense that defiance in Paris. And the word from our fans is I think it was 300 tickets, not taken up. Something really spot on for the rescheduled show. There are probably people coming from other continents. I don't know.

ZAKARIA: Everyone who could have been there.

BONO: Everyone.

HARLOW: What stood out to me, Fareed, is when they told you about the target being Paris, they are calling that the expression of humanity. Does that strike you?

ZAKARIA: Very much so. I was actually struck by how eloquent the edge was in talking about the importance of France in the history of western civilization. The history of the enlightenment. Bono said, you know, America is after all a country based on an idea.

But in some ways it is a French idea. What he meant was ideas of liberty, equality, fraternity. They were in part, strongly influenced by the French, the French enlightenment. They were very articulate and intelligent on that subject. They saw Paris, of course, as a symbol of beauty but they also saw it as a symbol of western freedom.

HARLOW: Bono used these words. That - when I heard them I took a step back. Death cult versus life cult. And talking about going back and playing and why that is so important. Death cult versus life cult.

ZAKARIA: You know, it was interested. He said what do they want to do, groups like ISIS and the Taliban? They want to come in and they want to ban music, they want to ban dancing. They don't like girls. He looks up and he laughs and he said what else is there?

You know, to him, really this idea of what we celebrate in the west as what the French joyeaux d'vivre, call the joy of life, the joy of living. To him it was really the opposite of everything ISIS stood for. HARLOW: And I was in paris for 10 days in the wake of the attack.

And you saw that defiance among the French people, not staying home, coming out to the Republic, everywhere, enjoying the good food and (INAUDIBLE). Exactly, that was their way of encountering this terrorism.

Moving to terror in a global perspective, I mean, we see the United States right now reeling from its own tragedy. The attack in San Bernardino. You wrote recently this week in the "Washington Post" discussing some of the Muslim rhetoric that we have seen recently. I want to read part of that. "The reality is that Muslims are today the most despised minority in America. Their faith is constantly criticized. They face insults, discrimination, and a dramatic rise in acts of violence against them." You go on to write, "and the leading Republican candidate has flirted with the idea of registering Muslims as a form of collective punishment that has not been seen sense the internment of Japanese Americans in the 1940s. This is the first time that I can recall watching politicians pander to mobs and then congratulate themselves for their political courage."

My question to you, Fareed, do you think that voters will ultimately punish politicians that say these things or reward them?

ZAKARIA: I hope they would punish them, but I fear they will reward them. Look, throughout history and in times of crisis, in times when the order is unsettled, fear is a very powerful emotion. And demagogues know that. Demagogues know that if you prey on people's fears, it's much easier to get a rise out of them. It's much easier to get them to vote from their gut, from the uncomfortable, uneasy feeling that people have.

And unfortunately that's what a lot of American politicians are right now, doing.

[16:40:05]

HARLOW: Finally, mass shooting. We've seen yet another in this country. An occurrence that is far, far too frequent. You have written about this. I spent part of the past week in San Bernardino, California. You compared it to the U.S. reaction when we know something is terrorism.

When we label something terrorism, we will not spare any costs. Billions upon billions of dollars. Lives lost. Wars fought. When it comes to mass shootings in this country, you argue a lot of hand ringing, political bickering, ultimately what?

ZAKARIA: Well, if you look at the statistics I point to. Since 9/11, the number of people who have been killed -- Americans who have been killed in acts that could be described as international terrorism, I think it was about 50. Let's say it has gone up to 75 now. This is in all the years since 9/11.

In that much time, 150,000 Americans have been killed by guns and by gun homicides and a much larger number in gun suicides. And we do nothing. If anything, gun laws have become easier. It has become easier to access guns. President Obama pointed out something that even I was struck by. He pointed out there are potential terrorists on no approximate fly lists. Those same people can go into any gun store in America and buy whatever semiautomatic weapons they want and the government can't do anything about it.

So there's some kind of weird mismatch here where when we think it is so threatening other, particularly if it's another looks, feels, sounds different, we are willing to do all kinds of things. We invade two countries, spend hundreds of billions of dollars, deprive ourselves of our own liberties, things like the Patriot Act. But we won't ask for gun registration, we won't ask for background checks, we won't ask for simple common sense stuff.

If there's some sense in which - I don't know. Sometimes I think we have just gotten used to this. Where we think it is like traffic accidents. But it isn't. There are sensible procedures we can take. Look, we have so much evidence from around the world that this stuff works.

Australia used to have mass shootings. They put in place gun laws. They have not had a single mass shooting since then.

HARLOW: What did you think when you read the BBC headlines just another day in America?

ZAKARIA: Sad but true. We now are at a point where, as you know, we have had more mass shootings than there are days in this year. Again, as I point out, that doesn't count the number of suicides. We have this extraordinary number of suicides. People try to kill themselves all over the world. We succeed.

Because, again, we have this easy availability of guns.

HARLOW: Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much. Look forward to seeing your full interview on your show, "GPS" tomorrow. Thank you, Fareed.

You can watch the entire interview, one on one with Bono and the Edge of U2, "Fareed Zakaria GPS" tomorrow only on CNN 10:00 a.m. Eastern and 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Next, think people on the no-fly terror watch list cannot buy guns in this country. You just heard Fareed talk about it. We will take you inside of that controversy, next.

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[09:46:25]

HARLOW: People on the no-fly terror watch list can legally buy guns in this country. President Obama today called that "insane." This week the Senate rejected a bill that would have banned people on no- fly lists from purchasing firearms. That vote came one day after a married couple in California opened fire at a holiday office event, killing 14 people. The husband, a U.S. citizen. The wife, a permanent resident. They were not on any terror watch list. Yet the massacre sparked a fresh round of debate over gun control measures in this country.

Rene Marsh reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Enough, enough, enough.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A predictable refrain. The gun control debate re-ignited once again after a bloody attack in San Bernardino, California. Now increased urgency to stop suspected terrorists from buying weapons.

SEN. DIANE FEISNTEIN (D) CALIFORNIA: The bill is the definition of a no-brainer. If someone is too dangerous to board an aircraft they are too dangerous to buy a gun.

MARSH: The proposed fix, using terrorist watch lists, including the no-fly list, that stops suspected terrorists from boarding planes, to also be used to ban weapons. Since 2004, there have been more than 2,200 firearm background checks for people on terror watch list.

About 91 percent of the transactions were approved. Under current federal law, a person cannot be prohibited from possessing firearms or explosives simply because the individual appears on the terror watch list.

However, a felony conviction or illegal immigration status can disqualify someone. Hours after the massacre, President Obama pushed for change in the country's gun laws.

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have a no-fly list where people can't get on planes. But those same people we don't allow to fly could go into a store right now in the United States and buy a firearm.

MARSH: But such a law would not have prevented the mass shooting in San Bernardino. Neither killer was on the terror watch lists. They didn't even have criminal records. And Syed Farook legally purchased at least two of the guns used in the massacre.

JOHN LOTT, PRESIDENT, CRIME PREVENTION RESEARCH CENTER: Not one of these mass public shootings that the president has spoken out about during his administration would have been stopped or affected in any way by any of the laws he's pushing.

MARSH: Critics say individuals wrongfully place on the terror list would be stripped of their constitutional right to own a gun.

(on camera): While the FBI cannot stop the purchase, they are made aware when someone on a terror watch list has been cleared to buy guns or explosives.

If the FBI learns about a plan to use those weapons in an attack at that point they do have the power to block the sale. They have done it before. Legislation has been proposed in both the House and the Senate to prevent people on terror watch lists from purchasing guns. But it's gone nowhere in Congress.

Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Rene, thank you very much.

Next, remembering the lives cut short in California this week. We will honor the victims. Stay with us.

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[19:52:55]

HARLOW: The survivors of Wednesday's shooting in San Bernardino, California described their fallen colleagues as a close knit group. The 14 people who died were more than co-workers, they were friends who considered themselves like a family, a family that is now shattered. Day by day we are learning more and more about the lives that were cut short. Here is CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sierra Claiborne was just 27 when she died on San Bernardino. On Facebook she had written "I'm dedicated to enjoying my new life that god so graciously gave me. I thank him all that I can and live life to the fullest. I love my life." She was a chemistry major who worked for the county since 2013. A friend posted on her Facebook, calling her a bright star whom he could always count on for support.

Michael Raymond Wetzel, a supervising environmental health specialist leaves behind six children.

(MIKE): My name is (Mike). This is our ginger bread carly is in the "Nutcracker" this week.

KAYE: A friend told the "L.A. Times," Wetzel loved babies. He once coached a team of five-year-old girls learning soccer for the first time. In the chaos after the shooting his wife posted "my husband was in the meeting where the shooting happened. I have not been able to get in touch with him. Please, please pray that he is OK." Wetzel was 37.

This woman fled to America from Iran at 18 to escape Islamic extremism and the persecution of Christians following the Iranian revolution. After a stop in New York City, Bennetta Bet-badal moved to California to get married. She and her husband, a police officer, have three children ages 10 to 15.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Everything she touched bloomed. Doing what she did with the county, there is not one person that would say anything negative about her.

KAYE: Forty six-year-old Bet-Badal graduated with a degree in chemistry before joining the county health department. On her fund raising page, loved ones wrote "it is the ultimate irony that her life would be stolen by what appears to be the same type of extremism that she fled so many years ago."

[19:55:01]

At 52, Nicolaus Thalasinos was described as a very devote believer. His wife told reporters they were Messianic Jews and he became born again a couple of years ago.

She told the "LA Times" her husband was very outspoken against Islamic terrorism, adding "I'm sure that he went down fighting and protecting people."

Thirty one-year-old Tin Nguyen was looking forward to getting married. The "LA Times" reports Nguyen worked as a county health inspector. One cousin told the paper, "you are you cannot imagine how caring she is. She had such a big heart.

Just days before the shooting she was reportedly trying on wedding dresses and her mother telling reporters that they were planning a wedding and now they are having a funeral.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: It is time for tonight's number, the number tonight 2,043. That is the number of cases where suspected potential terrorists were able to buy guns from licensed American gun dealers between 2004 and 2014.

As we reported here a few moments ago, people on the FBI's terror watchlist can legally buy handguns or assault style rifles and according to the U.S. government accountability office, nine out of 10 times, those same people succeed in making those gun purchases legally.

Earlier this year democratic Senator Diane Feinstein of California, Republican Representative Peter King of New York, introduced the bipartisan bill called "Denying firearms and explosives: The Dangerous terrorist act of 2015, on Thursday, one day after the massacre in San Bernardino, the Senate voted down that bill.

Thank you very much for joining us tonight. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. I'll see you back here at 5:00 Eastern tomorrow. Have a great evening.

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