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Active Shooter Situation in San Bernardino, California. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 2, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I have Art Roderick on the phone with me, former U.S. Marshal, CNN law enforcement analyst.

Art Roderick, here we are again. You know, we're just talking about an active shooting situation at a Planned Parenthood center in Colorado Springs, Colorado, on Friday. Here we are San Bernardino, California. And as we sadly are familiar with active shooting scenarios, we know, what, priority number one is establish a perimeter and safety for anyone in the area.

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): Yeah, Brooke. Unfortunately, we're getting quite used to this. Another sad incident here, especially with reports of 20. That number is highly unusual. You're right, they have to set up a perimeter. It sounds like because they've called the fire department in early that possibly they might have the situation under control at this point. It's hard to say. Of course, this just occurred. I know info is kind of sketchy. I've been trying to find information on the Internet, but there's not much out there yet. I think it's a pretty good sign if they're calling in the fire department right away that they might have at least a perimeter securer or the rescue and fire department to wait outside of that.

BALDWIN: And Los Angeles, again, on the map, San Bernardino east 60 miles from L.A. I have, as we're all -- welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, as we're reporting on yet another potential mass shooting here, this one in San Bernardino, California. Not a lot of details as this is truly a fluid situation. But let me read as we have to do in situations like these. We go to Twitter sites of official accounts of these specific jurisdictions. Here's what I got handed from the San Bernardino Police Department. They have confirmed an active shooter in the area of Orange Show Road, if you know the area, Waterman Avenue near Park Center. That's from the police department and from fire units responding to reports of 20 victims in the shooting incident, 1300 block of South Waterman. Police department working to clear the scene.

Harry Houck has been seated next to me here, former NYPD.

Sadly, all too familiar with covering these active shooting scenarios. Listen, we don't know a lot. As Art was just discussing and we were discussing recently, you set the perimeter. And we don't know where this is happening. I don't want to say anything that's not accurate. We're hearing reports where this possible I could be, but walk me through what police are doing right now. HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the first thing

they're doing is trying to find out where exactly the shooter is. And at the same time, talking to witnesses, to see if there's more than one shooter. The report is there are 21 people possibly shot here. It hasn't been confirmed, but the fact that if there is, there's a good chance there's a second shooter with that many people.

How long has this been going on? We don't know. How many calls have come in is this a shopping center? Why is this a specific target? Are there a lot of people here all the time? Is that why this area is a specific target? You have 20 people shot here so you can definitely say this isn't somebody going into a location who has a personal vendetta against one or two people. This is definitely looking like one of the bad active shooters we've been very afraid of happening here in the United States that we've been saying, you know, this hasn't happened in the United States. This could be the bad one.

BALDWIN: Again, reports of 20 victims shooting incident. This is the South Waterman area of San Bernardino. Looking at the clock, it's 2:30 in the east, 11:30 in the West, about lunchtime for folks there in San Bernardino.

HOUCK: Yeah.

BALDWIN: We don't know a lot. If it's more than one shooter. We know it's an active shooting situation in San Bernardino, California. And we don't know exactly where this is happening. We don't know as we talked on Friday at a separate active shooting situation if there are hostages in this case.

I've got Art Roderick with me, former U.S. Marshal, current CNN law enforcement analyst; and Harry Houck here, with years on the police force here in New York.

So beyond setting a perimeter, what else?

HOUCK: First of all, when you see this many injuries, you know, we've got probably a long gun we're talking here also.

BALDWIN: Why do you think that?

HOUCK: Because there's so many injuries. I don't know how long this has actually been going on. We don't have the exact time.

BALDWIN: We don't know when the call came in.

HOUCK: Right. But when you've got 20 people that they're talking about right now, it's going to probably be like it might be more. What they're doing is cordoning off the whole area. They're going to make it a large crime scene, an area they believe the shooter is somehow trapped in a specific area. They're going to cordon off the whole area. They'll put a perimeter around that. They're calling police officers and federal agents. Everybody will be coming in. I'm sure the ATF is there now because of this. There could be possible explosives. We don't know yet. They're going to take every precaution possible to protect the people in that area. [14:35:08] BALDWIN: And I am squinting at the screen. Just trying

to see. Obviously, we're pulling up Google map. This is the 1300 block of South Waterman. To try to understand what sort of buildings are in this part of San Bernardino.

There we go. Thanks, guys.

I can't tell exactly what the structures are. Don't know if that's a park on the left or some sort of golf -- San Bernardino Public Golf Course, there you go. On the other side, some sort of structure, building. I don't know if it's a shooting, a shopping complex. We don't know. I'm sure we have folks in the control room working to get people on the phone who are familiar with this area of San Bernardino.

Art, to you, because immediately when I think of at least 20 victims here and still an active shooter, the word that comes to my mind is "triage." Somehow police have to get in and access and treat these people, at the same time they're trying to neutralize the shooter.

RODERICK: Right, Brooke. Harry is correct, that's a lot of casualties being reported immediately. A high number of casualties is unusual. What's happening is, if they can identify where the shooter or shooters are coming from, you've got police responding. You've got perimeters set up. And as everybody starts responding on a lot of these tactical units now, they have what's called a tactical paramedic.

They will immediately start administering first aid. Most law enforcement officers have basic first aid. But the first crew is going to be going toward where the danger is. The first group of law enforcement officers show up, going to be going right toward where the shooting is occurring. And then those coming in from behind will start triaging all the people who are injured. Tactical units will show up. This is the beginning. As we see here now, ambulances are just starting to show up, and we've got some choppers in the air.

BALDWIN: Let's also be really precise on our language, everyone, because these are reports of, first of all, reports of a 20 victims shooting. We don't know if that means fatalities, injured. That's the number we have from San Bernardino Fire's Twitter page.

That said, do you want to jump in, Harry?

HOUCK: That's right. There's a new protocol with police departments. They're going right after the shooter. You know, if you're --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What do you mean by that?

HOUCK: We learned from Columbine that the police officers, once they arrived at that scene, they staged themselves outside, got themselves together, then they went into the school. That's bad. That's wrong. We learned that police officers have got to go in. So probably when the call came in, police officers had to directly confront the shooter. Step over the wounded, get and knock the shooter out. The longer he's out there, the more casualties might occur. That protocol has already probably been established. There's I very good chance, we don't know yet, that that shooter has already been taken out.

BALDWIN: Right.

HOUCK: We don't know. I'm home hoping it is because the amount of people that is reported that have been shot here is extraordinary. You know, we're looking at this as a golf course here. I would expect maybe some type of a shopping mall or something like that where a lot of people are in an area we're look at here. Of course, we don't know the exact location where this is occurring. It might be a block or two away.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We don't know. But what would be more problematic or challenging for law enforcement, as they are seeking to neutralize the suspect, whether it was outside versus in a closed-in area?

HOUCK: It depends. In a closed area, police officers are going to have to go directly into the scene, has this guy rigged some sort of bomb in the area? But it doesn't matter. Police officers to go directly into the scene. He could actually barricade himself inside if it is inside a location, if he's outside, he could be running around. Many different -- there's a lot of wide spaces we can see here. He could be hidden anywhere. Looks like there's some green area there that might be some woods.

BALDWIN: The green area on the map you can see, it says San Bernardino Public Golf Course. I've been watching you with one eye on the right side of the screen. It does look like some sort of main street in San Bernardino. I assume this is South Waterman and some shops, some folks walking, police in the middle of the road.

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: Wherever it is, whatever it is, if it's true that 20 people have been shot already, it's probably in a very crowded area.

BALDWIN: Yes. Lunch time on the West coast.

Boris Sanchez is sitting here as well, also joining me, another voice.

What more can you add?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just one more minor detail, something people might be concerned about following what happened in Colorado just a few days ago. We've received word that this was not at a Planned Parenthood, that at least perspective on where the shooting may be taking place. Obviously, with what happened --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Is there a Planned Parenthood nearby?

SANCHEZ: That may be the case. Joseph Meadow called and made contact with the office. Obviously there was concern that --

(CROSSTALK)

[14:40:07] BALDWIN: Oh, it was just around the corner. I was handed a piece of information. There is a Planned Parenthood just around the corner from the location.

There you have it. That's not what's been targeted.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BALDWIN: Do we know where this is happening, whether it as at the golf course, the shopping center? We have no idea.

SANCHEZ: Not preciously. We've just been told that people should avoid the 1300 block of South Waterman. Residents have been warned to stay away. There's a hard closure in effect at Orange Show Road and Waterman Avenue. But we don't know exactly, as you mentioned before, whether or not this is happening indoors or somehow outside, perhaps in the green area next to the road.

BALDWIN: So if you are just joining us, it is 20 minutes until noon on the West coast. We are looking at some of the first pictures coming in from one of our L.A. affiliates, KABC, on the right side. We're talking specifically about San Bernardino, 60 miles east of Los Angeles. On the left side of your screen, this is the area we're talking about specifically, again, according to P.D. and according to fire. There reports of an active shooting situation here, and to be precise using the language of the fire department, they're responding to reports of a 20-victim shooting. This is the 1300 block of South Waterman. We don't know where exactly this is happening because, by the looks of the map, you have a golf course, you have a number of buildings.

Let's listen in to law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did she see?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: She said the guy came in next to her office, and I guess started shooting. They locked themselves in, in her office. They seen bodies on the floor. She said by now ambulance are taking people out in stretchers.

She was able to get out of the building already but there's still people inside.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was she hurt? Is she OK?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: No. She's OK. She said SWAT is inside.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did she tell you what the people, suspects, looked like?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: She said all she heard was shots. She didn't get a chance to see anything.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What business does she work in?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: In the original center.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do they do at that business?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: She works with kids with disabilities.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any idea how many people are typically in the building this time of day?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: It's a pretty big building. I don't know. Probably a couple hundred.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How did you first hear about what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: She texted me. She said she was inside, that there was a shooter outside shooting, that she's locked in, in her office. She said, I love you, and I came over here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I can't imagine when you got her on the phone she was said she was out how relieved you were.

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Yeah. Just a little while ago.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you think about all of the --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: I'm glad they came out right away. I called 911 right away and they already knew about it. I got here as soon as I could. I work in downtown Riverside. I left work and just headed out here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: All right, thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: You're welcome. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We appreciate that. Again, one of the witnesses in there describing what he saw.

BALDWIN: So we're going to move away from the live report.

A couple of things there. Obviously, that was not law enforcement. That was a witness. I don't know if it was a husband of someone inside the building where the shooting was taking place. Obviously, a loved one. You heard him say, "She said I love you."

Just got this piece of information, that San Bernardino police have confirmed they are looking for one to three possible suspects, multiple victims. And from that quick interview with that individual there in San Bernardino, he mentioned outside but also inside a building. He described this woman who was locking herself up in her office, describing bodies on the floor. And I heard him mention something about a center -- I don't know if this individual he was referencing works with children with disabilities, if that is perhaps where this is taking place. That's what he mentioned, and that several hundred people work in that specific building.

So as we're trying to get a little bit more information as far as where this active shooting situation is happening, these are some of the pieces now coming together, Harry?

HOUCK: Listen, if it's more than one shooter, this isn't the typical kind of shooting we've seen where --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: By the way, typical shooting? I hate that, but know what you're saying.

HOUCK: You know what I'm saying. We see that there's one shooter, then we think it's a lone wolf doing something on his own.

BALDWIN: This may not be.

HOUCK: Now we have possibly three shooters here. You've got to start looking at this as maybe possibly some kind of a terrorist attack. You know, you've got three shooters. That is -- then there's got to be some kind of conspiracy, you know. Three separate people out there with weapons shooting in a building where there are hundreds of people. I'm not looking at this -- I thought for a second it might be a disgruntled employee. But not with three separate shooters.

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: It's got to be some kind of specific attack at this location. It's a possibility because there are children are.

[14:45:59] BALDWIN: Cita Wilson is on the phone. I understand she is a receptionist in the area.

Cita, first of all, are you OK?

CITA WILSON, WITNESS: Yes, we are. We've locked down our school right now.

BALDWIN: So you're a receptionist at a local school?

WILSON: Yeah. Actually, we're -- we have a charter school here. We deal with young adults between the ages of 18 and 24.

BALDWIN: So explain to me where you and your school is in conjunction with this active shooting situation.

WILSON: We are actually five houses down from the corner of Orange Show Road and Waterman.

BALDWIN: Can you explain to me what -- I just have a Google map. I see a golf course and a couple of buildings. What buildings are along that corridor?

WILSON: OK, we're actually on the east side. We're on east Orange Show Road. So we're actually on the opposite corner of where this is happening.

BALDWIN: Right. So that's where you are. But at Waterman and Orange Show Road, what else is in this area?

WILSON: There's a gas station on the corner. There's also empty warehouses, but we have a limousine service here and another medical warehouse on this street here.

BALDWIN: Pretty busy this time of day, lunchtime on the West coast? What's traffic like?

WILSON: Traffic right now is pretty heavy. I noticed that traffic has stopped at one point. We heard the helicopters and everything. We went outside to take a look. We thought it was an accident. Then our phones start ringing and relatives and employers calling to make sure that we were OK because they had heard about the shooting. We didn't know what was going on.

BALDWIN: So when you stepped outside -- I don't know how recent that was, Cita -- what did you see?

WILSON: There was a lot of helicopters, a lot of police sirens going on, a lot of traffic, and that's all we can see and hear from right here.

BALDWIN: And what about the kids in your charter school? Are they being told to stay there?

WILSON: Yes, they are. Actually, we have locked our front doors and our gates where the students would have to stay in until we get further notice. Actually, no one has came by to -- we're just sitting here waiting until we hear from someone.

BALDWIN: You're waiting to hear from law enforcement where they give you some guidance on what to do with your school.

WILSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: All right, Cita Wilson, thank you so much for calling in.

Calling from a charter school, as she described, five houses down from this area in San Bernardino where this active shooting situation is taking place.

You're looking at some newer video coming in from KABC, our Los Angeles affiliate, of law enforcement gearing up, SWAT teams and the like getting ready to potentially roll in and neutralize this shooter.

Let's listen to one more witness.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Text message.

TERRY PETIT, WITNESS: Said that someone had come in and started shooting, and they ran into an office and she's hiding with some other people. Our friend's daughter is in there, too, and she texted so they're both hiding. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As we speak.

PETIT: That's all I know. That's all I know.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is she still hearing gunshots?

PETIT: She didn't say anything about gunshots. But someone I think must have told her because she never said she heard gunshots, but somehow she knew that -- she said 10 to 20 people were shot.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And where does she work?

PETIT: I don't know the name of the place, but it's a government agency that helps people deal with health care stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has she seen any victims down?

PETIT: No, she hasn't said anything about that. She's been hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I imagine you must be really concerned right now.

Is this your daughter?

PETIT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who's hiding in there?

PETIT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did she say to you? She sent you some texts?

PETIT: She did.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did she say?

PETIT: That -- Shooting at my work. People shot. In the office waiting for cops.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But she's OK?

PETIT: Pray for us. I am locked in an office. That's it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What is your name?

PETIT: Terry Petit.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Again, very emotional scene out here with some of these people --

[14:50:24] BALDWIN: Pray for us. He was reading to a local reporter in San Bernardino, California. That was a father whose daughter is holed up in her office describing the shots being fired, describing those injured. Absolutely horrendous.

Our hearts go out to everyone here in San Bernardino enduring an active shooter situation.

Evan Perez is our justice correspondent. He is joining me now.

Evan, what can you tell me?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this is definitely not like the recent shootings that we've seen where you have single shooters. According to the San Bernardino sheriff's department, they're looking for up to three shooting suspects here so that really tells us that this is something different. We expect that the local authorities are going to be looking for help from the federal government, the FBI, the ATF. We're checking with them to see whether they're either on the scene or on the way. We know that they have offices right nearby.

It wouldn't take long for them to be at the scene. Right now we don't know where those suspects are, but if they're indeed up to three suspects as the sheriff's office in San Bernardino County has reported on Twitter, then this really separates it from some of the more recent shootings. Obviously this is a country who's seen a lot of these incidents, way too many, but to have more than one shooter really puts it in a different category, where you have to start thinking whether or not there might be some kind of terrorist angle here. You have to start thinking about what type of conspiracy that would involve multiple people to carry out this attack, and why did they choose this location.

Again, these are all questions that law enforcement is going to be asking. We're asking at this moment. We're checking with people we know. We'll get back to you with more information.

BALDWIN: Evan, let me keep you quickly. You may not know the answer to this question. That's totally find. But when we just heard -- forgive me. This takes me back a minute. We're looking now for the first time at what look to be triage units being set up outside of -- I don't know if it's a park or a golf course, across the parking lot. A lot of blood. I saw a lot of blood.

Evan, if you're still with me, we heard that father, that eyewitness, describing his daughter in this building. His father mentioned it was a government agency health care related where the shooting was happening. Do you know any more about where this is happening?

PEREZ: No, I don't know that area particularly well, Brooke. I've been in that region but not in that exact area. I'm having a hard time thinking of what government agency is there. We do know that there's a lot of federal agencies that are dispersed all over the southern California area partly because you want to make sure you have the ability of workers being able to get there so they're not all concentrated in downtown L.A. As you --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here's the building. Forgive me for jumping in. But here's the building.

Now we're seeing, Harry, two dozen people, hands up, walking very carefully outside. What are we looking at?

HOUCK: That's the typical protocol when you're evacuating people, as people come out, that you come out with your hands up. We don't know if the shooter will try to escape pretending to be a victim. You come out with your hands up. Police officers will identify them and find out who they are --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Look at the officers on the other side -- in the median. You see them huddled behind those cars. You see armored vehicles. What's happening there?

HOUCK: They're probably looking for cover here. I don't -- apparently, it looks like that's the building where the shooting occurred.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HOUCK: We can tell by all the police around there and the way people are coming out of the building. So the police must be in that building now and have him, the shooter or shooters, cordoned off in a specific area inside that building.

BALDWIN: What makes you think that?

HOUCK: It's the way it appears. I can't tell you for sure. That's what it appears right now. And it looks like they're coming out of an area where they might not be able to get shot by the shooter. If the shooter decides to look out the window and shoot. Apparently, police have made this a safe zone here. Being inside there, and there's a good possibility we may see the same thing where they pretend they have hostages inside and are trying to basically get a little more time in what they're doing there. This is all speculation. We don't know much what's going on. That's what I can see from what I see here.

BALDWIN: More and more people leaving the building with their hands up, one or two dozen patrol cars and armored vehicle up there on the sidewalk. As we're looking at this building -- folks, let me just be totally transparent. We don't know where this is. Until we get more information from the ground, from San Bernardino, all I can tell you -- this is according to San Bernardino Fire -- this is Waterman Avenue, 1300 block of South Waterman and Orange Show Road. This is where this is happening. Obviously, no risk in the area. In these shooting situations, they cordon the area off, establish a perimeter, get folks from within out to safety, triage those who are injured, and try to find the shooter, in this case, according to San Bernardino police, they're looking for one, two, possibly three shooting suspects.

Art Roderick, let me bring your voice back into this.

You've been listening to Harry sort of walk us through what he thinks he's seeing. What about you? [14:55:45] RODERICK: Yeah, I agree with Harry. This is scary when

you're talking about multiple shooters. This involves a conspiracy. When this first went down and I heard multiple shooters I thought maybe originally some type of gang situation. But it sounds more toward the terrorism angle where if they're holding hostages and they've injured that many people, we're talking some type of long rifle with a high capacity magazine that would do some damage like that. So it's good to hear that there's people coming out of the building. They've got get those innocent people out of the way as quickly as possible. And those buildings did look fairly large. I heard one witness say that those buildings probably hold a couple hundred people. So this is a nightmare law enforcement has, to get those people out of those other offices before they get hurt.

BALDWIN: And we're looking now, live pictures, this is presumably the triage unit, stretchers, fire, EMS all responding, treating people on the streets there. Those obviously with the priority, the worst injured being taken to local hospitals there in San Bernardino.

As you can see on the screen, Harry, we now know in addition to local law enforcement, FBI and ATF on the scene.

HOUCK: Definitely. FBI will be on the scene shortly. More than one shooter we believe occurring here. The FBI will come on the scene. ATF will come on the scene. I don't know if anybody is hearing shots right now or not. It doesn't appear to me by looking at the scene here that any shots are being fired.

Now, the thing is, when the police responded instantly to the scene, were they able to engage the shooter? If not, if they could not engage the shooter, were the shooters at that time trying to either escape or did they kill themselves? We don't know. But you see a lot of police officers that aren't standing around in tactical. They're all standing around, not behind cars.

BALDWIN: What does that tell you?

HOUCK: They're not hiding behind trees. There's a good possibility that the shooters are taken care of. I don't see that in any of the pictures we've -- there could be another building. I don't know. We see them coming out of that one building.

BALDWIN: You don't feel a sense of urgency as you're looking at this?

HOUCK: No, I don't at all. They're not taking defensive positions against this building. There's a possibility that this might be over. I'm not sure.

BALDWIN: Let's hope it is.

Boris?

SANCHEZ: One thing I can tell you is that from the witness that said they spoke to a loved one who heard gunshots they mentioned this is a center where they handled disabled children. I can tell you at the 1300 block of Waterman Avenue there's a regional center. They're spread out throughout California. They are non-profit agencies that assist people --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Boris, forgive me.

That looks urgent to me, Harry Houck.

HOUCK: That's definitely urgent there.

BALDWIN: All of them with their guns drawn.

HOUCK: All with guns drawn, in defensive positions behind the vehicles.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We want to pull away from that. Those are live pictures. Want to be careful what we show live here on CNN. You never know who could be watching live television from inside the building.

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: We now see that the shooters have not been taken care of yet. The shooters have not been eliminated. You could tell by that action by the police.

BALDWIN: Boris, sorry.

SANCHEZ: Just saying, as we've heard from several people, that there's a government agency nearby. This may be the government agency, the inland regional center, where they handle people with disabilities.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: There we go. We heard somebody mention that.

SANCHEZ: They're apparently responsible for the coordination of services and case management for persons with disabilities, diagnosis and assessments, rendered services to parents and people at risk of having developmental disabilities. This is straight from the website.

And they are located at the 1300 block of Waterman Avenue. So even if this isn't exactly perhaps where the shooting took place, it's still nearby. So consider those who were in the area when it started.

BALDWIN: Looking at, though, all these different cars, Harry or Art --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: You see the way they're parked? You see how the vehicles are parked? It looks like a lot of police vehicles came to the scene. It looks as if they didn't even know exactly where the shooter was occurring. Maybe the first call happened here. We see all these cars here. Maybe they didn't think they could go down the side block. We see this other vehicle --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Look at all those cars. That is a tremendous law enforcement presence.

HOUCK: Well, you're going to see that in situations like this.