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Trump Denies Mocking Reporter; Inside A Use-Of-Force Police Drill; Pro Football Report. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 27, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Juliette Kayyem, thanks for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a day after taking heat for mocking a reporter's disability, Donald Trump says he deserves an apology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Donald Trump says "The New York Times" owes him an apology for accusing Trump of mocking a reporter with a physical disability. In fact, the Republican frontrunner denies even knowing journalist Serge Kovaleski, even though Kovaleski says he and Trump were on a first name basis for years. You can see Kovaleski has a chronic condition that limits his arm movements. But here's - here's Trump on Tuesday in South Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right after, a couple of good paragraphs, it's - and they're talking about northern New Jersey draws the prober's eye, written by a nice reporter. Now the poor guy, you've got to see this guy, oh, I don't know what I said. Ah, I don't remember. He's going like, I don't remember. I - oh, maybe that's what I said. This is 14 years ago. He's still - they didn't do a retraction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:35:25] COSTELLO: OK, so after "The New York Times" demanded an apology, Trump issued a statement mangling Kovaleski's name. Quote, "I have no idea who this reporter Serge Kovalski is" or however you would say that spelling. Anyway, Trump says he has no idea who this reporter is, what he looks like or his level of intelligence.

Athena Jones had been covering the story for days. She's in Washington with more.

Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

The plot thickens in this, I guess, he said/he said. I should tell you that the Trump campaign issued - or reissued that statement correcting the spelling of Kovaleski's name not long after putting out the initial statement, and they also issued another statement late in the afternoon yesterday. That's when Trump demanded that "The New York Times" apologize.

And he also said a little bit more. I wanted to read for you what he said. "Serge Kovaleski must think a lot of himself if he thinks I remember him from decades ago, if I ever met him at all, which I doubt I did. He should stop using his disability to grandstand and get back to reporting for a paper that is rapidly going down the tubes." So a pretty tough statement coming from Donald Trump late in the day yesterday.

As you mentioned, Trump - sorry, Kovaleski says that it's not true, that Trump does know who he is. He tweeted this morning a link to an article in "The New York Times." He, of course, sat down with his employer and spoke about this. Trump - sorry, Kovaleski covered Trump for years extensively when he was a reporter for "The New York Daily News" back in the 1980s, and Kovaleski said in the story that he's interviewed Trump in his office. He's talked to him at press conferences. All in all, I would say around a dozen times he interacted with him as a reporter while working for "The Daily News."

So, Trump says he doesn't know who Kovaleski is. Kovaleski says, he does know who I am. It's impossible to know what's in Trump's head. But I can tell you this, Trump has a lot of defenders and the fact that he's not stepping - he's not backing down, he's not giving any ground. He's had this tough rhetoric. That's the kind of thing a lot of Trump supporters like hearing from him. They're defending him on Twitter. And I've got to tell you this, a lot of Trump supporters already don't like "The New York Times." So for Trump to go after "The New York Times" and this reporter is playing to his base.

Carol.

COSTELLO: All righty, then. Athena Jones, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, police officers get the training, but when they come face to face with a potentially life and death situation, at what point do they decide to use lethal force? I wanted to know. So I took a police training course. What I found out, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:21] COSTELLO: We saw it this week in Chicago, in Minneapolis, unrest over the police shooting of a black suspect. And while each case is unique, one thing is clear, since Ferguson this issue has become a national concern. In a new CNN/Kaiser Family Foundation poll, 19 percent of African-Americans say they've been treated unfairly by police based on their race. That's compared to 17 percent of Hispanics and 3 percent of white people. And that's just in the span of the past 30 days. In that same poll, 84 percent of African-Americans say anger over police treatment is a major reason for protests in several U.S. cities.

It got me thinking, what goes through the mind of a police officer during those tense situations? What kind of training do they get? And what makes them decide to shoot or not shoot? So I went to training myself. The scenario I'm about to show you was designed by former Navy SEAL, FBI special agent and CNN analyst Jonathan Gilliam. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): There's not always a right answer for when to shoot and when to hold your fire.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN ANALYST: You should eliminate all the variables that you can.

COSTELLO: It's a decision that law enforcement officers are asked to make every day on the job.

COSTELLO (on camera): Oh, that's heavy.

GILLIAM: How much would you say this weighs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably 25.

COSTELLO: Twenty-five pounds, wow.

GILLIAM: Yes.

COSTELLO (voice-over): I'm being outfitted for a tactical training course where it's up to me to decide whether to use deadly force. I'm also wearing a monitor that's measuring my heart rate.

GILLIAM: There's a lot of different weights that law enforcement are caring. They're carrying physical weight and they're carrying mental weight, where they have to go into these different scenarios.

COSTELLO: Jonathan Gilliam, former FBI and Navy SEAL, is my partner.

GILLIAM: In order to go through the use of deadly force rules, you have to practice these types of things. And this is what law enforcement practice when they go through an academy and this is what they face when they're on the street.

KIRBY SCOTT, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: This first scenario is going to have is suicide by cop.

COSTELLO: Kirby Scott is a retired special agent for the FBI. He's my sergeant today.

SCOTT: Officer is responded, which is you, to a domestic call of an EDP person, emotionally disturbed person, who left his residences and after threatening to kill himself at his residence.

COSTELLO (on camera): My hands are already sweating. OK.

GILLIAM: And this is - this is good. This is the stress that a cop is already feeling daily.

COSTELLO: OK. I'm ready.

GILLIAM: Do you see anything in his hands?

COSTELLO: Can we come in, Sean (ph)? SEAN: No.

COSTELLO: No, he doesn't have anything in his hands.

GILLIAM: OK, go ahead and go in.

SEAN: Do not come in!

COSTELLO: Sean, we just want to - we just want to help you out and - and make your family feel more comfortable.

SEAN: There's nothing you can do! There's nothing you can do. My world is over. I'm done. I'm ready to die. I suggest you leave or we're all going to die.

[09:45:00] COSTELLO: And why do you think your world is over?

SEAN: Why do you think my world is over?

COSTELLO: Uh-huh.

SEAN: You talked to my wife. What do you think?

GILLIAM: Why don't you show us your hands? Let's see your hands.

SEAN: Who are you?

GILLIAM: I can see your hands in there, but can you just put us all at ease by putting your hands on the table.

SEAN: How is that?

GILLIAM: How about both of them?

SEAN: How about no.

GILLIAM: How about your put both your hands on the table for me.

SEAN: How about you leave.

GILLIAM: Put your other hand on the table for us.

SEAN: I'm telling you now if you don't leave I'm going to kill everyone in this room including myself.

GILLIAM: Sir, why don't you put your other hand on the table.

No, no. Put your other hand on the table.

SEAN: I'm telling you, it is time --

GILLIAM: He's got a gun.

SEAN: -- to leave.

COSTELLO (voice-over): What would you do? Shoot or not shoot? Sean is mentally ill, suicidal. His wife wants you to save him.

GILLIAM: There's a gun.

SEAN: Now.

GILLIAM: There's a gun. He's got a gun. Listen, place your hands on top of your head.

COSTELLO (on camera): Listen to my partner. Place your hands on top of your head. We only want to help you. That's all we want to do. We don't want anyone to get hurt today.

SEAN: There is no help!

COSTELLO: There is help Sean, I promise you.

SEAN: There is absolutely nothing you can do. But leave.

GILLIAM: Come on -

SEAN: Leave now.

COSTELLO: You don't want -

SEAN: Leave -- What's the problem? Why are you not responding to me?

GILLIAM: Carol, we got to get this guy -

SEAN: You want me to respond --

GILLIAM: Okay. Bam. You're dead.

COSTELLO (voice-over): If this were a real emergency, I'd have died.

COSTELLO (on camera): I didn't want to shoot him. Even when he had the gun on the table I didn't believe he would shoot me. Right? But he did.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: So that was the - Because I'm not used to dealing in those situations.

GILLIAM: First off he wasn't showing you his hands. That's a problem.

COSTELLO: Gave me a false sense of security because by then I had my own gun out. And I thought, well, he's not going to shoot me because I have my gun out.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: So as soon as he put the gun on the table I could have shot him?

GILLIAM: Sure. Because action beats reaction all the time. If he presents the threat to you then you have the right to use deadly force, not just to protect your life, but to protect your partner or anybody else because if he shoots you both he can then go out and be a deadly imminent danger to the public.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. I want to bring in former Navy SEAL and FBI special agent and my trainer Jonathan Gilliam. And first of all, thanks for taking me through that because I learned a lot, frankly.

GILLIAM: I think you are a very brave individual to go through that because the reality is we cover these things daily and most people analyze it but they don't necessarily go through that training. So my hats off to you and Kirby Scott wanted me to send that to you as well, that we appreciate you going out of your way to do this.

COSTELLO: He's awesome. He's a really awesome guy. Even in watching that, my palms were sweating again. And it was a fake scenario. You could tell my by heart rate monitor that as the situation escalated my heart rate beat faster and faster and this wasn't even a real scenario.

GILLIAM: Because it becomes a situation where the whole situation is really dependent on the other person. Not you so much. The end outcome can depend on you once you see the threat. But the reality is how it unfolds really is dependent on the behavior of the individual in which you are confronting.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about the behavior of Sean. This is Sean. His behavior was not rational, right? But I kept trying to talk him into giving himself up because I wanted him -- I wanted -- I didn't want to shoot him. I just didn't. I knew he was suicidal. I knew he wanted me to shoot him and I thought that I could talk him out of it. Sometimes a police officer can do that, right?

GILLIAM: That's correct. However, the point when he pulls the weapon out, now what happens is he has presented an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or loss of life by putting a lethal weapon on that table in his reach and he's telling you that somebody is going to die today. At that point the whole scenario changes and your job as a law enforcement officer goes from saving his life potentially to saving your own and the other people around you. And that is where these situations --

COSTELLO: Because it can become like a shootout at the O.K. Corral kind of situation.

GILLIAM: That's -- Exactly. And that is not what your job. Your job is not to shoot it out with somebody. Your job is to eliminate an imminent threat of loss of life before it spreads to you, your partner, or the public around you.

These are very hard decisions. As you can see, the stress level -- the two things I think that you hit on here more than anything is that you didn't show up to kill Sean and at the end of it, because things are changing so rapidly and you have to go through the force continuum on use of deadly force, you have to make those decisions quickly and it appears a lot of the times that cops are making the wrong decision to the public but in reality they are facing that threat and they are making the decision that they are trained to make based on the reality of what is going on at that moment.

COSTELLO: And we should mention the reality is that most officers never shoot their guns, right?

GILLIAM: That's absolutely correct. Absolutely correct.

COSTELLO: So we forget -- that is not to say that there aren't bad cops and bad shootings, right? It is just -- we need to put everything in perspective.

[09:49:56] GILLIAM: Right. And if we would have had another outcome for that, then we could have moved in on Sean and secured him at that point. But when he presented the threat, our response to that threat had to change and it had to go to use of deadly force, which you see in this case what happens if you don't make that decision and you push it too far.

COSTELLO: Jonathan Gilliam, thanks so much.

GILLIAM: You got it.

COSTELLO: We'll have another scenario for you in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

Checking some other top stories for you this morning. The White House put on lockdown after this man and his American flag cape jumped the fence and sprinted across the front lawn. All the while the first family was inside the White House celebrating Thanksgiving. Secret Service agents could be seen drawing their guns. They were able to catch this man, though, and take him into custody. While this is the third person to rush the lawn this year, he's the first to do so after seven-inch steel spikes were added atop that fence.

A likely piece of a SpaceX rocket, which blew up moments after takeoff from Cape Canaveral back in June has been found all the way in the U.K., more than 3,000 miles away. The debris was discovered by boaters off the Island of Scilly. As you saw, an American flag is emblazoned on the side of it.

A newborn baby found abandoned in the manger of a nativity scene at a New York City church may not have to wait for long for a home. Several members so the Holy Child Jesus Church are offering to adopt him. Police have located the baby's mother. She is protected by the city's safe haven law and will not face charges. Officers say she returned to the church the next morning to make sure the baby had been found.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, you think of Thanksgiving, you think of food and football and boy, did some teams get served. Coy Wire - Did I mention the Lions? Anyway, first, think you're getting a good deal on Black Friday? I was cheering my Lions. Yay. Thank again. We'll talk about shopping and football next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:57:15] COSTELLO: Did I mention the Detroit Lions looked like the New England Patriots against the Eagles? It was a fine, fine Thanksgiving Day for me. For Cowboys fans, not so much. The Panthers mauled them, took out the -- it was bad all the way around.

CNN sports correspondent Coy Wire has more on a big football day on Thanksgiving that was great for me, but not so much for Cowboys fans --

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Carol, absolutely -- Oh, we will talk about your Lions. They were absolutely awesome. But Carolina, they are now a perfect 11-0. They beat the Dallas Cowboys like a drum on Thanksgiving Day. Cam Newton, he was thankful for his team's undefeated record but this game was all about the defense. They delivered big hits, snapbacks, snatching interceptions. Luke Kuechly kicked off two Tony Romo passes on back-to-back plays. Took that one to the house. His teammate added another third interception, took that one in for a touchdown too. So the defense scoring twice. Cam Newton didn't even do much. He did score on this one play. Bust out a couple of old-school dance moves and throws on some new-school flare. Panthers staying undefeated, crushing the Cowboys 33-14.

Now to add injury to insult, it looks like Dallas lost quarterback Tony Romo, as Carol mentioned, this time possibly for the rest of the season. His shoulder gets planted into the turf on this sack by Panthers leader Thomas Davis. Remember, Romo already missed seven games after a similar injury earlier this season. Dallas now a woeful 3-8.

Now, the Packers and the Bears, they have the NFL's oldest rivalry. They've had 192 meetings but they had never met on Thanksgiving Day. So this game had a special feel to it. On top of that, at halftime, the Packers honored former quarterback and future Hall of Famer Brett Favre by retiring his number 4 on the wall of Lambeau Field. Then it got even better. Hall of Famer Bart Starr was in the house and he showed some love to Favre. There were a lot of teary eyes during the special moment. But Jay Cutler and his boys became the bad news bears and put Green Bay into a state of disbelief. Cutler threw for 200 yards and a score in the cold-soaking rain, Chicago holds on for the 17-13 upset.

Now Johnny Manziel, he went from being the Browns' starting quarterback to the third-stringer this week. That happened after video surfaced that seemed to show him partying like a rock star at a nightclub in Austin, Texas, during the Browns' bye-week. Now according to multiple reporters, the Browns benched him because Manziel lied to them about when the video was actually shot and he asked those who knew about it to lie for him as well. Now, Carol, what in the world did you feed your Detroit Lions and Matthew Stafford? 337 years passing, five touchdowns. I'm watching this game thinking look at the carnage, Carol. I have to know your thoughts on this game.

COSTELLO: Oh, my gosh. Actually, I was sitting there, and the Lions were about to score 31 points and I'm thinking to myself, holy cow, what's happening? It's like a miracle on Thanksgiving Day! Matthew Stafford looked like Tom Brady.