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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

French Transit Workers Possibly Radicalized; New Paris Suspect Had Traveled To Syria; Russian Pilot Says There Was "No Warning" From Turkey Before Jet Was Shot Down; Russia Deploys Missile Defense To Syria; Video Of 17-Year-Old's Shooting Death Released; Chicago Officer Being Held Without Bond. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 25, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:32:29] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, late this morning, we learned that a new wanted suspect in those Paris attacks had been to Syria just last year.

Here he is, and his name is Mohamed Abrini. He was named yesterday publicly in a global arrest warrant for having allegedly dropped off one of the bombers who struck the Stade de France.

Two days before that, those attacks were carried out. This is what he was up to. He was spotted on surveillance at a french gas station, doing a little shopping, getting gas, hanging out with another sordid person, the other person wanted, the Paris attacker who got away, Salah Abdeslam.

At least six of those attackers are now known to have traveled to Syria and slipped right back into France under the authority's radar. But now the pictures are out, the surveillance is being widely circulated.

It looks like he could walk amongst everyone and sit right in. But that is a dangerous killer walking among us.

I want to bring in CNN Counterterrorism Analyst Phil Mudd, who join me live now.

Phil, it's distressing to know that these two extraordinarily dangerous men could be anywhere in Europe or could be back to the Syria by now, who knows if they have gone to further shores at this point. But when I hear that France has 20,000 S-files, dangerous people they're looking at. And that almost half of them are part of the radical Islamist movement, it all makes me think that Salah and Mohamed may not be our biggest worry, they maybe under deep cover, by now knowing that their images are out there. It's all the other ones we have to be worried about.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, there's a couple of things you got to think about here. First, every time I see one of these investigations, you're looking at a small cell of people in the American public and the public in Europe says, "How could you not find that cell of people?" And I tell them "You can't go from the cell to a broad assumption that security services can find them. You got to go from that 20,000." And say, "How do you sort through them everyday and determine who has the capability to do something, and what is going on inside of their head, who has the intent to do something."

But Ashleigh, my biggest concern here is not what we're seeing in terms of this new identification. My biggest concern is what we're learning with all of this new travel to Syria is that ISIS is not passively sitting back, and saying, "People in Europe, people in the United States, if you're sympathetic go do something." They have now developed individuals in Syria who are purposely training, developing the operational capability to reach into Europe. That is a huge change that we're seeing in this new series of threats in Europe.

[12:35:07] The fact that they're not just encouraging people to do something, that they're actually training people and giving them operational capability to attack like what we saw in Paris, that's remarkable.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and Europe is surprisingly easy to travel. It is Euro- free zone, you don't have to cross borders. But there is some talk that that maybe might change or at least it might be pressure to put things back the way they used to be, make it tougher to get between France and Germany. Make it tougher. Make more checks available so that they don't have this vast zone to share their underground killer network.

MUDD: I think that's going to be difficult to implement for a few reasons. Number one the pendulum always swings in these situations. The public says "Why don't we do more?" We're just talking a moment ago on your show about, why don't we do more in airports.

And then further investigation reveals that duly more has cost his wealth. In this case for example there's a cost of businesses. How much is it going to cost businesses trucking for example if borders get tighter. There's another cost to information sharing. If you want to share information on the radicalized citizen in France who has not committed a crime, are you sure you want to share that citizen's information with another country when you are passing information on a sovereign citizen who hasn't done anything wrong yet.

The first response is more security. The second response is, wait a minute the implications of more security are significant as well.

BANFIELD: We've always heard the expressions from the founding fathers, people who expect to be ignorant and free expect -- never was and never will be...

MUDD: That's right.

BANFIELD: And yet you are tested day after day on that as well.

Phil Mudd, thank you. Appreciate you insight on that, happy thanksgiving to you as well.

MUDD: Thank you. BANFIELD: CNN's, Impact Your World has been compiling all the different ways that you can help to support those victims and their families and their in Paris. To find out more you can check out cnn.com/impact, a great thing to do on this thanksgiving.

We'll be right back.

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[12:41:28] BANFIELD: A Russian fighter pilot who survived being shot out of the sky says "Turkey never sent any visual warnings. It never sent any radio warnings. It sent nothing before firing a missile."

We first showed you these incredible images yesterday, the jet free falling to the earth with flames shooting out the back of it.

The pilot's account reported by Russian media contradicts what Turkey is saying happened, that the Russian jet was violating its air space. And was only shutdown after receiving repeated warnings over five minutes.

Here's the deal, whatever did happen, we know that the pilot was rescued. And that happened by Syrian soldiers.

After Russia's attempt to find him went terribly, terribly wrong, I have the pictures, and I want to show you.

This is the dramatic video showing the moment when a Syrian rebel launched a missile at the rescue helicopter, there is the effect. Blew it up.

And inside that helicopter or possibly very nearby was one Russian marine who was there to find that downed pilot. That marine is now dead as well, so two.

Two dead pilots, one rescued, one of them talking, one of them saying we were never told at all that we were in that air space that we were violating Turkish air space. Does that change the dynamics?

CNN Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance, joins me live now from Moscow.

That has got to have the people of Russia seething mad, and is that going the change the Russian response after we're hearing there won't be escalation, now that we're hearing the direct account from the pilot?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean you're right about the Russians being seething. In fact, today in Moscow outside of the Turkish embassy, there was a huge crowd there chanting for the diplomat that they were murderers and throwing eggs and rocks at the embassy. They had to be held back by the Russian police.

And that fury is reflected also in Russian government. They said they don't plan to go to war with Turkey over this, they're not talking about, you know, striking at Turkey or anything like that.

But, you know, Putin is not going to let this slide. You know, there's a Russian plane been blown out of the sky. Two of its servicemen, one navigator who was on board -- sorry one pilot on board who was killed, one of the marines as you mentioned on the ground trying to rescue them killed as well by rebels that were firing at them.

I mean, you know, there's obviously going to be military measures and other measures that the Russians are going to take in response to this. I mean United States would, you know, you can imagine what they do, if they were in their situation.

What the Russians have said so far, is that first of all the bombing missions in Syria whether attacking ISIS or other rebel groups, that's going to continue.

What is going to be different though, is they going to have fighter plane escorts. So if they are approached by any Turkish F-16 in the future, they'll be the ones to get shot out of the sky.

The other issue is that they have deployed S400 missiles to Syria that world most sophisticated service to air missiles. It basically gives Russia once they're operational almost complete command over to the air space above Syria.

So it means that no airplane whether it's Turkish or American or French or anyone else is going to be able to fly in Syria unless they get the tacit approval of the Russian military. And that's a major escalation, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Matthew Chance, live for us in Moscow. Thank you for that.

[12:45:00] I want to bring in our CNN Military Analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, a Retired Former Commanding

General in Europe for the Seventh Army.

I've got to ask you about the mechanics of how this rescue went down, because the Russians tried to rescue their downed pilot, and you saw the result of what happened to the helicopter. It was blown up by the rebels on the ground. It was the Syrians who came to the Russians' aid and rescued their guy. All of this at a time when globally, very few people want this alliance between Russia and Syria to be a kneeled (ph), to strengthened.

If anything, they want the opposite. Will this small act, General Hertling, play a big role in concreting that relationship between Syria and Russia and make things very difficult in this war against ISIS?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the soldiers on the ground are always going to cooperate like this, there were Syrian Special Forces, the army Mr. Assad's Special Forces that's the critical point -- the people who're protecting the regime working with Russians Speacial Forces, and the CSAR mission the Combat Search and Rescue mission with the helicopter that was destroyed by Syrian rebels. That is the important point. That also was destroyed the picture that you showed a minute ago, Ashleigh, was a U.S. TOW missile, to belongs optically tracked wire guided missile which is very accurate outwards to 3,000 meters.

Frankly when I saw that video yesterday, I was surprised, because it takes a long time to set that system up, that was a lucky shot that that aircraft, that helicopter landed and shutdown in an area where they could be engaged by that TOW missile. But what I think you're going to see is there's already a coordination between the Syrian army under Mr. Assad and the Russian army. They know that are Russian army is there to help them, they know Mr. Putin has been provided support with his aircraft.

So that's certainly cemented. The thing that is going to become very tenuous now is the movement of ships into the Eastern Mediterranean by Russia that have air defense missiles. The missiles that are going to be placed around Latakia air base and to support the skies. That's going to passively cost some challenges to the coalition forces that are going against the ISIS targets in Northern Syria.

BANFIELD: Yeah, more surface to air missiles being moved into Syria could spell more downed jets, and certainly that's going to be something Turkey is worrying about.

General Hertling, thank you very much for your insights, and happy Thanksgiving to you.

HERTLING: And same to you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Thank you. I appreciate it.

Coming up, some very graphic video has been streaming across your T.V. screen, just released more than a year, a year after a Chicago police officer actually shot a 17-year-old boy 16 times. Why did it take so long to see that video? Why did it take so long to see charges? Is there anything to the fact that the charges and the video came on the very same day? You will see Laquan McDonald's final moments, and you'll hear the officer's attorney explain the reason that officer shot him dead.

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[12:52:23] BANFIELD: The video that you are about to see is extraordinarily difficult to watch. It shows a 17-year-old boy named Laquan McDonald being shot 16 times by a Chicago police officer. This is the only picture that we have of Laquan so far. Laquan has been dead now for more than a year, but the officer who shot him was only charged yesterday with first-degree murder. We're going to hear a lot about Laquan's actions, how he had a knife, how he was high on PCP, but here's what else you should know about him.

This was a troubled, troubled boy, a ward of the state at the time of the death, and he was the alleged victim of two abuse investigations when he was a baby. The video of the shooting was just released last night by court order.

Stephanie Elam is going to be taking us through it, and again, I do want to warn you, it is very graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Demonstrators converged on Chicago streets by the hundreds outraged over this graphic release dash cam video showing Laquan McDonald being shot by a single officer 16 time times in October of last year.

The disturbing footage shows McDonald falling to the ground after shot, and then hit multiple times while on the ground.

SUPERINTENDENT GARRY F. MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE: ... took a young man's life, and he is going to have to account for the actions.

ELAM: The 37-year-old Officer Jason Van Dyke is charged with first- degree murder and has been taken of the Chicago police payroll. For now, he is being held without bond. Van Dyke's lawyer says his client feared for his life.

DANIEL HERBERT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's truly not a murder case, and we feel that we are going to be very successful in defending this case.

ELAM: On the night Laquan was fatally shot, investigators say McDonald was wielding a knife with a three-inch blade which he allegedly used to slash the tire of a police car. Police say when McDonald who had PCP in his system ignored orders to drop the knife, Van Dyke fired 16 rounds.

ANITA ALVAREZ, COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: Officer Van Dyke was on the scene for less than 30 seconds before he started shooting. In addition to the fact that all evidence indicates that he began shooting approximately six seconds after getting out of his vehicle.

ELAM: City officials have been prepping for mass demonstration in the wake of videos release, calling for peaceful protests.

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, (D) CHICAGO: This opportunity for healing beginning now.

ELAM: Late Tuesday dozens locked arms and solidarity blocked off an intersection and Interstate 94.

Officers made some arrests, but the tense moments between the crowd and the police never escalated out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:55:14] BANFIELD: Our Stephanie Elam reporting on this story for us. Laquan McDonald's death is not just a tragedy for those who loved him, but also for the family of the police officer who shot him. Officer Jason Van Dyke is married, his got two children of his own they're aged 14 and 9, and if he's convicted of first-degree murder, that family loses someone, too.

We have not heard directly from Van Dyke himself, but we did get a chance to speak with his attorney about his perspective on the situation. And he says Van Dyke feared not only for himself in the situation, but also for his fellow officers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERBET: Again, you have to look at what my client Jason was experiencing at the time in which he fired his weapon. And at the time in which he fired his weapon, he had already been made aware of the fact that this individual had been walking through the neighborhood, and waving a knife, had caused a disturbance at a couple of businesses, had stabbed the windshield of a squad car where police officers were involved, had popped the tire of -- excuse me. Popped the tire of a squad car where police officers were sitting in that squad car.

People had called for the taser, no taser was available. So, at the point in which my client got there, this had been going on for I believe 18 minutes, and when he jumped out of the car, the subject made a motion which put my client in fear that this individual is going to perhaps attack him with the knife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Jonathan Gillian joining me now, he's a former police officer, he's also former FBI, a special agent, and joining him is HLN Legal Analyst and Defense Attorney Joey Jackson.

So Joey, let me begin with you. That lawyer has been working very hard, it would seem for a year to mine every aspect of what we could and couldn't and couldn't see to come up with some kind of defense. We give the benefit of the doubt in this country to those who are accused of crime, but you are not buying anything that he says?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: I am not. Also working hard are the prosecutors who put together the case, and ultimately decided it is a first-degree murder case. So let's step back to the analysis of what he is saying. While his client was protecting himself and these other officers, so why didn't the other officers protect themselves by shooting as well? Why do I bring it up? Because to reasonableness of his action.

There's a three-step prong that's going to be analyze in this case. One is the immediacy of the threat, was there a immediate threat? Look, we're all going to evaluate and look at the videotape. A jury is going to looking at that and they're going to decide. Did that teenager at the time he was shot and killed pose an immediate threat to the officer anyone else? If the answer is no, which it appears to be no, there is serious problem for the defense.

Step number two, was the force used by the officer proportionate to the threat posed. When you fire for 15 second, and the suspect goes down after two second then you continue to fire, talk to me about the proportionally of the threat I'll end where I started. It goes to the issue of reasonableness. Not the reasonableness of the officer who fires the shot, but reasonableness of an officer in your particular situation, so I say it again. If there were at least eight of the officers there, and his the only one firing a shot, how reasonable are you really? That's what the prosecutor is going to focus on.

BANFIELD: Jonathan Gillian, this counselor makes an incredible case and these are what we called in the business really bad fact to overcome an uphill battle.

Looking at the video, it just seems like an open and shot case. But there's protocol and their state of mind that I certainly don't know. I've never responded to the scene, you have and there are some arguments that can be made, and clearly this attorney is going to have to make them, and really make them vigorously. What are those arguments?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all. I would say that you make some very good points counselor and if I ever have to defend myself on this I'm going to hire you.

BANFIELD: I know.

GILLIAM: However.

JACKSON: So over coming here. However, OK.

GILLIAM: However, and, you know, we're joking (ph) about this but it a serious thing.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

GILLIAM: And the fact that, when you look at, you know, the tragedy of this young man's life, and the fact that the things that led up to this, that led to him making bad decisions to walking down the street with a knife, you have to remove those things, and remove the emotion that people have when they watch this video, and look at the tactics, and look at policies of the department, in which they are laid out. And the laws that have been set by the Supreme Court for the use of lethal force, which what I am saying is that where you are saying there is no imminent threat.

[13:00:00] Statistics show, and we are talking about law enforcement within 21 feet if an individual has a knife and he is within 21 feet, and it doesn't say...

BANFIELD: In lot of time, right.

GILLIAM: ... that he's walking at you, it could be anywhere.

JACKSON: I would love to address all of those things.

BANFIELD: I know.

JACKSON: We have to do it some other time. Wow.

BANFIELD: And you got to call.