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CNN NEWSROOM

Officer Charged with First-Degree Murder; Russia: Jet Shootdown a "Planned Provocation"; Trump: Something Going on in the Mosques; President Obama to Speak on National Security. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 25, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:44] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So this police officer in question has now been charged with first-degree murder. He's going to stay in jail probably until his trial. Is that a positive step forward in your mind?

BRANDON SMITH, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Certainly. I mean the family, I assume, wants some justice, and this is part of that. The problem is that it happens a lot more.

COSTELLO: All right. So Jonathan, I turn to you because I didn't want to show the video in its entirety because it is very difficult to watch --

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- because this young man was shot 16 times.

But you could see this young man walking down the street. He had a knife in his hand, a three-inch blade. The officer arrived on the scene. And within 30 seconds, he fired his weapon, and he hit the suspect.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: In your mind, was that a justified shooting?

GILLIAM: So first off, what I do is I take the name of the officer, the name of the individual that was shot out of it. I remove the emotion from it, and I look at the tactics that were employed.

You know, Brandon there is talking about this massive amount what he terms unlawful shooting by Chicago police. But what I would ask is in this situation, before I even explain this about whether it was justified or not, is Brandon, how would you have handled that situation? And at what point do you think it crossed over to where he is using unlawful force?

COSTELLO: Brandon?

SMITH: So I've done some thinking about this. The standard that's being held for what is a lawful shooting is apparently whether the officer felt threatened, you know, personally. And the problem with that is that it's entirely subjective. It's beyond reproach. You can't say no, you didn't feel threatened because it's just sort of a feeling. So I would ask if Laquan was walking away, as the video clearly shows, why did the officer fire?

GILLIAM: He wasn't walking away. So let's look at the facts of the video. He, Laquan -- or I just say the individual.

SMITH: He was walking away from all officers.

GILLIAM: First off, we have to look -- we have to understand that before this officer shot him, there was already a series of events that have happened that set this in motion.

What you see there is the end of these events that are going on in which he, I guess, had apparently slashed some tires of a cop car and had been breaking into vehicles.

Hold on a second. I'm giving you the facts of how this happened. So they respond to the call. They see this individual walking down the street as they're converging on him, and he has a knife. It's clear in the video, the way he's holding the knife out in a provocative manner.

As he walks parallel to the officers and they are responding, he is within, I would say, because if you look at the lines on the street, within ten feet. Now, we're taught in law enforcement within 21 feet, that that is a potential lethal area that this person could lunge at you.

And here's the thing that people like Brandon need to understand is that just because you shoot a person doesn't mean they're going to fall. I talked to somebody last night that was in Fallujah. I know this is in Chicago but this was in Fallujah who shot an insurgent 13 times as he charged him and the guy didn't fall until he got right in front of him. The point --

COSTELLO: But Jonathan, this young man was on the ground. And there were multiple shots fired in quick succession.

GILLIAM: The point is even though he's on the ground, he never dropped the knife, and he continues to move. Until the knife leaves his hand, we don't know if the officers were yelling at him to drop the knife. I've seen videos -- and the reason we have these policies is because officers have been killed after they shot somebody with a knife or with a gun. You see, so we have to look at the reason that these policies exist.

SMITH: To be clear --

COSTELLO: Go ahead -- Brandon.

SMITH: To be clear, police officers did not see -- did not see Laquan McDonald slashing tires or breaking into cars. All they saw was him walking down the street with a knife. And we saw that in the video.

GILLIAM: They got the call, though.

SMITH: Before they shot him, they did not give Laquan -- Laquan did not get a chance to speak to officers.

GILLIAM: So if you, Brandon, had --

SMITH: He did not respond.

GILLIAM: If you're approached by somebody with a knife, Brandon, and they're within ten feet, are you going to give them a chance to talk to you?

SMITH: He was not approaching them. He was walking away from them. You see that in the video.

GILLIAM: He was not walking. He was walking parallel.

SMITH: Did you see the video, sir?

GILLIAM: I've seen the video. He's walking parallel. It doesn't matter if he walked past them. If he's within ten feet, he can turn and lunge and take your life.

COSTELLO: Ok. Well, let's ponder about how we move forward for this because I'm certain the city of Chicago -- I mean this police officer has been charged with first-degree murder.

SMITH: Sure.

COSTELLO: Prosecutors evidently think there's enough evidence to bring him to trial for this very serious charge, right? So that's going to go through the judicial process.

But it doesn't negate what Brandon has brought up, that Chicago has a police with excessive force, and there's a problem in the community right at the moment. So Jonathan, how does the city get past that and appease the community?

[10:35:02] GILLIAM: So what I suggest -- and I didn't come on here to debate Brandon necessarily, but what I would hope is that Brandon, in his investigations, when he's going through and trying to change this relationship, is that you carefully pick out things, these shootings, that there's so many of them, you pick out ones to go after where they're clearly, clearly in the wrong.

In this case tactically, it is -- I don't think that he's in the wrong because the policies say if an individual is armed and will not drop that lethal weapon, they can use lethal force.

COSTELLO: Well, even the Chicago police commissioner says this police officer was in the wrong. Of course, he hasn't been through the judicial process, but let's consider this before we go because this officer in question does not have the greatest past, right?

There have been 17 previous complaints against this officer, allegations include excessive force, improper use of his weapon. He's also been accused of making racial remarks. And you have to wonder why this police officer was still on the force. GILLIAM: And that comes down to management. Management should

be looking at these -- and this is where Brandon, I think, could seriously go after this. If you look at records, and people have continuous uses of excessive force, why are they not being pulled in and retrained or fired? There's plenty of people who want to be cops.

But in this particular instance, I see tactics that were used that eliminated the threat. And that's what we're taught. So I think there's a lot of other cases that Brandon and individuals could go after. I don't think this is one of those.

COSTELLO: Ok. Well, I guess Brandon and Jonathan will have to agree to disagree. Of course, this will go through the judicial process, and we'll see what -- we'll see what happens. Jonathan Gilliam, Brandon Smith -- thanks to both of you for being with me.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a war of words between Turkey and Russia this morning: what Vladimir Putin is saying about the downing of one of his fighter jets. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:13] COSTELLO: Russia is lashing out against Turkey, calling the shootdown of a warplane yesterday a, quote, "planned provocation". While the Russian foreign minister says the country doesn't want to wage a war against Turkey its military is ramping up its presence in neighboring Syria, sending over anti-aircraft missile defense systems and accusing Turkey of supporting ISIS.

So let's talk about this. I'm joined by Michael Pregent. He's former intelligence adviser to General David Petraeus in Iraq and a fellow now at the Hudson Institute. Welcome -- sir.

MICHAEL PREGENT, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: You say Vladimir Putin miscalculated, that he never thought Turkey would shoot down a Russian plane. Why?

PREGENT: Well, after he saw U.S. inaction, after Russia was bombing U.S.-backed rebels, I think he thought that because this was quote, unquote, "a U.S.-led coalition that Turkey would follow suit. He doesn't like it nor do they want to do but I think he respects it.

COSTELLO: You think he respects it. So Putin is now holding a military awards ceremony for those who survived the Syrian mission. He's moving an air defense system into Syria. So why is he doing that?

PREGENT: Well, a lot of (inaudible) will allow Putin to actually have a no-fly zone that he can enforce, and that's a provocation. That's a serious escalation of what Putin's able to do in Syria. And we saw this coming for months.

There's an article in Bloomberg by Josh Rogen that talks about this. NATO's been very concerned about Russia's presence in Lattakia and what they're able to do. This actually gives Putin a reason to plus up the base and the addition of S-300s and their range to basically shoot down Turkish and U.S. aircraft if they violate airspace, that's concerning.

COSTELLO: So what does the United States do?

PREGENT: We use leverage. We get in the game. We back up Turkey. We say that Russia violated Turkish airspace. Russia is targeting rebel fighters against ISIS and that this will not be tolerated. Russia cannot attack U.S.-backed or Turkish-backed rebels in the fight against ISIS. There will be a response.

Erdogan led with his response. The U.S. needs to support Turkey as a NATO ally, engage with Russia, give Putin some sort of face- saving gesture. Apparently the second pilot was released back to Russian custody. Maybe Turkey had something to do with that. Maybe that's a leverage trigger that Turkey used to play down the situation or at least defuse it somewhat.

COSTELLO: Well, the French president is going to meet with Vladimir Putin. Do you think that will be effective, or should the United States go out of its way to do that?

PREGENT: Unfortunately, I think Hollande will be more effective with Putin than will President Obama. I think Putin's looking for strong leadership from the west. And I would it rather it come from Obama instead of Hollande.

But Hollande is in a position, post-Paris attack, to ask Russia to do more and to actually forgive some of Russia's shortcomings or overreaches in Syria in the fight against ISIS. I think Hollande plays a key role, and we should get on board.

COSTELLO: All right. Michael Pregent -- thanks for your insight.

[10:44:26] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump says something is going on at mosques. Jeb Bush has something to say about that, too. We'll tell you what it is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, if you're Muslim -- I know so many, they're so great, they're such good people -- but we have to be smart because it's coming from this area. I mean there's something going on. There's some nastiness. There's some meanness there. There's something going on in the mosques.

But you people, and me and everybody, you know when somebody moves to an apartment near you or to a house near you. You're pretty smart, right? We know if there's something going -- report them.

[10:50:05] Most likely you'll be wrong, and that's ok. But let the local police go in and check out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Trump's opponents have had enough of that kind of talk. They're strongly pushing back. Jeb Bush did on "NEW DAY" this morning.

CNN's Athena Jones has more on that. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol. Look, Jeb Bush knows that he's trailing Trump badly in the polls right now. He's behind by at least 20 points in a couple -- several recent polls both nationally and in the state of Iowa. So he knows that Trump's message right now is resonating with Republican primary voters.

Still, Bush says that Trump would not be a good nominee for the Republican Party to put forward in 2016, and he doesn't believe he's going to win. Central to Bush's argument is that he is the one with the proven skills to lead. He is the one who can beat Hillary Clinton in a general election and that Republican primary voters will eventually come around to him.

Take a listen to what he said on "NEW DAY".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can beat Hillary Clinton. I could become president. I have the proven leadership skills to do it. And as we get closer to the primaries and the beginning of the primary, February 1st, the Iowa caucuses, people are going to look at who has the skills, the talent, the heart, the spine to be able to be president. Not who's going to fulfill my angst and anger in the here and now.

And as we get closer, I feel really confident. We have with a great team out in the fields. I'm connecting with voters on this Thanksgiving eve. I am confident I'm going to win the Republican nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Jones: So bush says he's confident he'll win. He'll be the one coming out on top when all is said and done. And he says he's connecting with voters, but it certainly seems right now as though Trump's message is the one that is collecting more successfully with voters.

Bush argues that Trump is appealing to people's anger and fears and that this is not going to work as a campaign tactic over the long haul. Of course, Trump seems to be betting that it will -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones reporting live from Washington.

This just in to CNN, President Obama will deliver a statement at 11:40 Eastern. He's now meeting with his national security team. It's expected he's going to talk about security for the nation in light of the upcoming holiday season. Again, President Obama set to make a statement to the public at

11:40 Eastern this morning. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:40] COSTELLO: All right. This is rather surprising. President Obama will deliver a statement on security in about 45 minutes. He's meeting with his national security team right now.

Our senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns is at the White House with more on this. Good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol. He is wrapping up the second meeting in two days with his national security team in advance of the holidays. We don't know the precise nature of the statement the President is planning to give, but we do know that leading up to Thanksgiving and the holidays, there are always concerns about terrorism, especially now because of the attacks in Paris, Beirut, over the Sinai -- that would be the bombing of the Russian plane. And even this morning, a report of a terrorist attack in Tunisia killing a dozen people or more.

So there is some speculation that the President will be talking about the national security posture as we go into the holidays. They did put out a statement just yesterday saying there is no credible threat against the United States homeland, at least at this time.

But we also know and we have been reporting today on CNN about the State Department's worldwide travel alert for Americans traveling to other countries, warning that ISIS, al Qaeda and Boko Haram, among others, might target Americans. So concerns about security are high. No indication from the White House that any additional steps are being taken other than those that would obviously be taken in a situation like this.

Carol -- back to you.

COSTELLO: Joe, is this an unusual move? Because on one hand, the President says don't be afraid. Go about your business. You know, go shopping, have a great Thanksgiving dinner. Go to the parade.

But yet he's holding this impromptu -- I don't know what you call it, a news conference? He's making a statement. He's not taking questions at all.

JOHNS: Reporter: yes, it's not clear whether he'll be taking questions, but I think it is an acknowledgment of the fact that Americans are concerned, especially with what happened in Paris. There is some recent polling out there that suggests Americans are very concerned about the President's leadership on issues of terrorism.

And he's stepped up to the plate. He's talked more and more about it. He addressed some of this yesterday when he was speaking to reporters with the President of France. So once again, President Obama apparently weighing in on this issue of security which is on a lot of Americans' minds right now, quite frankly.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live from the White House, thank you.

Checking on some other top stories, Pope Francis landing in Kenya last hour beginning the first leg of his African tour. He was greeted at the Nairobi Airport by politicians and dignitaries. This is the Pope's 11th trip abroad. He's expected to focus on tensions between Christians and Muslims.

It's a mixed bag for Thanksgiving Day travelers. The eastern part of the country shouldn't have any major weather problems but boy is it a different story out west where heavy snow is expected to fall on the Rockies. Wyoming could get hit by blizzard conditions.

Thank you so much -- thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On alert, France now investigating airport workers --