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CNN NEWSROOM

Russian Plane Shot Down by Turkey; German Police Hunting for Salah Abdeslam; Trump Doubles Down on Disputed 9/11 Claim; Obama, Hollande Meeting at the White House. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 24, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:48] PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I can't believe NATO foreign ministers are going to say if the Russians do this, fine, take down more aircraft.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Ok. So, complicating matters, the two pilots that ejected, they're now in Syria, right? I don't know whether they're alive or dead but the rumor is one of them dead. Another rumor out there on social media is that they were shot in the air as they came to the ground. Now they're being held by Syrians.

MUDD: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, one analyst we had on earlier suggested that Turkey intervened and tried to get these Russian pilots back. I don't think that will happen, do you?

MUDD: I think there's a chance that NATO is going to come to Turkey. I would agree with whoever said that. They'll come to Turkey and say, you've had some tough language this morning. The language out of Turkey after the shoot-down was pretty harsh. We've got to cool this off.

We've got refugee outflows, we have to deal with an intensification of air strikes after the French attacks. We cannot now be diverted over this diplomatic question of whether to return if these individuals are dead, whether we return dead bodies to the homeland. I do believe there will be NATO pressure on the Turks to say, "cool it off, send the bodies home".

COSTELLO: So, President Obama and the French president are meeting right now. So, what do you suppose -- I mean I can guess what they might talk about first, but what do you suppose they'll say about it?

MUDD: I think they've got to come out and say, look, the Russians are provoking. We've got to talk to the Russians about de- confliction. It's not acceptable that they violate airspace. I don't believe they're going to come out and say the Turks were right in shooting down the aircraft. I would be shocked to see that. And meanwhile they've got other issues to discuss. This has got to be part of their conversation today, but they have to discuss what to do about information sharing across Europe and the United States in the wake of the attacks in France, how to approach Putin on a solution for Syria and how to intensify air strikes. They have a lot on their plate today and this just sort of muddies the waters I think.

COSTELLO: You're not kidding. Philip Mudd -- thanks for your insight.

MUDD: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

The hunt for France's most wanted terrorist has expanded to Germany. An intensive search is now underway for Salah Abdeslam, the only suspected Paris attacker known to have survived.

CNN's Jim Bittermann, live in Paris with more on that. Hi -- Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there -- Carol. Yes, in fact, that's one of a lot of tips that have come in from all over Europe, all over northern Europe. There's been a lot of sort of false sightings and what not but they are searching in Germany, just as they are in Belgium and northern France.

They really, I don't think, have any idea where Abdeslam may be at this point. He's the one -- one of the attackers.

COSTELLO: All we're going to break away from Jim Bittermann right now. I apologize for that. This is the pool spray (ph). You'll soon see the President Obama sitting down with the French President Hollande. You see reporters gathered around and photographers. We're hoping they say something so let's listen in.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All right. Thank you, everybody. We're going to have a press conference. There's no statements. But I'm glad to have Francois here.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.

COSTELLO: All right. It doesn't appear -- well, it definitely now does not appear that President Obama or the French president will say anything in that pool spray. We're hoping they say something a little later in the day though. We'll keep you posted.

Let's head back to Paris now and Jim Bittermann. He was talking about how Germany is now involved in the investigation. Sorry about that -- Jim. Take it away.

BITTERMANN: No problem -- Carol.

The fact is that Germany and any number of other countries in northern Europe are on the lookout. And there's been a number of tips about where Salah Abdeslam might be. But none of them have panned out up until now. Police are hunting him because he's the only one of the terrorists from Friday the 13th who survived, that's known to have survived.

Also they're interested in a possible suicide belt that was found on the south side of Paris. Most of the action, including that shootout, that violent shootout the other day, took place on the north side of Paris but they found this suicide belt under a garbage bag on the south side of Paris.

They're looking into it right now. It had the same kind of explosives, Carol, that were used in the suicide bombings on Friday the 13th. So they really think this is probably part of the same thing.

They also were able to track a cell phone that they believe was used by Salah Abdeslam. They were able to track it to the area where the suicide belt was found. So he might be the person who tried to dispose of that belt on the south side of Paris -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Bittermann reporting live from Paris -- thank you.

In Brussels a suspect now faces charges in connection with the deadly terror attacks in Paris. He's accused of participating in activities of a terrorist group and a terrorist attack. He's one of nearly two dozen people who were taken into custody in raids in Belgium.

[10:35:03] Brussels, which is home to NATO headquarters remains on lockdown until at least tomorrow because of a maximum terror alert. Schools remain closed and subways are not running again today.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump doubling down on what he said about Muslims and 9/11. Now he's facing a new surging Republican rival. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Donald Trump has a new surging Republican presidential candidate breathing down his neck and it's not Marco Rubio or Ben Carson. A new Quinnipiac poll in Iowa has Senator Ted Cruz in second place just behind Trump. Trump's still holding onto the top spot though when it comes to handling terrorism.

[10:40:06] In Columbus, Ohio last night Trump doubled down on his controversial comments that he saw Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the terrorist attacks on 9/11 even though that's been refuted by multiple fact-checkers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: During a speech recently I said that I saw in parts of New Jersey, Jersey City, but parts of New Jersey, I saw people getting together and in fairly large numbers celebrating as the World Trade Center was coming down, killing thousands of people. And I saw people, and I saw them, on television and I read about it on the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Athena Jones joins us now with more. Good morning. ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is

remarkable. The poll you just showed certainly seems to add more fuel to the decision -- or what we've been noticing for the past several months which is that the ordinary rules don't seem to apply to Donald Trump. Nothing he says seems to hurt him in the polls, hurt him with his supporters, no matter how controversial, no matter how racially charged and no matter how much it's disputed by fact-checkers and this claim about thousands of people celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11 as the Twin Towers fell down is yet one more example.

This has been refuted by numerous publications. There's no record of any footage having been aired showing thousands of people celebrating in New Jersey. Politifact, the independent fact checking site has declared this a "pants on fire" claim, meaning very, very untrue. The "Washington Post" has given it four Pinocchios -- also showing it's very untrue. And yet Trump stands by it.

And this morning on our air, his lawyer, Michael Cohen, said, "Look, a lot of his Twitter followers are backing him up, tweeting to Trump that they, too, saw this happen." Cohen even said it doesn't matter if it was thousands celebrating or even just one person celebrating. The point is there are bad people among us.

So this is very interesting. We'll have to see if unlike everything else this begins to hurt Trump -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. So Ben Carson, he's kind of walked back his comments on 9/11. What did he say?

JONES: Well, this is interesting, too. Carson was asked very specifically whether he saw the same thing Trump claims to have seen -- people celebrating in New Jersey. He said yes. Later he walked that back.

Take a listen to how he tried to explain himself on Fox last night. Go ahead and play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we were talking about is the reaction of Muslims after the 9/11 attack and if they were in a celebratory mood. And you know, I was really focusing on that it was an inappropriate thing to do, no matter where they were.

They asked me, did I see the film? I did see the film. I don't know where they were, but I did see a film of Muslims celebrating. I thought we were just talking about the fact that Muslims were inappropriately celebrating. I didn't know that they had an agenda behind the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So there you see Carson trying to clean that up for the record. I should tell you that while he says the press mischaracterized his remarks, the reporter did ask him specifically, were American Muslims in New Jersey cheering on 9/11 when the towers fell? Did you hear about that or see that? Carson said yes. So, then he walked that back.

Of course, Carson has not really had the same experience as Trump. It does look as though some of his statements and misstatements may be beginning to hurt him. Perhaps this new poll out of Iowa is evidence of that. We'll have to see if that continues -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones reporting live from Washington -- many thanks.

New video just into CNN and let me set it up for you.

We've been telling you all morning long about a Russian fighter jet that was shot down by a Turkish F-16 with an air-to-air missile. You see the pilots there -- they parachuted out of that Russian fighter jet. As they fell to the ground, Syrians, we suppose, on the ground shot them as they fell to earth. So, let's watch this video.

All right. This is a very confusing scenario, to say the least, because a Turkishman can also be heard shouting, "Don't shoot at them. Let's capture them alive." Rebels can also be heard yelling, "God is great."

It's now unclear whether those pilots were killed during the shooting, during the landing. We don't know.

Nick Paton Walsh joins me now with more.

You've watched this video. What do you see?

[10:45:03] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: well, I think it shows you really the absolute horror of the war that's been happening in Syria for years now. In context these Russian fighter pilots who have been in their jets over this area, according to Turkish officials, and also on the ground, involved in a pretty intense bombing campaign of what Vladimir Putin says were terrorist targets in that area.

So when this plane has been hit, whether -- it seems to have been by a Turkish F-16, according to both Turkish and Russian officials, the men parachute out and as they come down to the ground, in contravention potentially of international law but very much I think in keeping of the brutal nature of this war, they are a target, it seems, according to this video, of machine guns on the ground.

Many of those different groups in that area have varying levels of radicalization or not. It's very hard to know exactly who is doing the shooting there. The cries you're referring to, taking them alive, well, you could potentially argue that a Russian pilot would be very valuable in a later prison swap. But at the same time "Allah Akbar", a very normal cry to hear in all Syrian rebel-fighting videos here.

So what this video does appear to troublingly show is that those pilots when they hit the ground -- combatants, it's fair to say though until, I think, under international law when they left their aircraft and their parachutes, is that they most likely hit the ground dead. And we do have other social media video that we're not showing

you that purports to show one Russian pilot who seems to be dead. It isn't clear if they were caught alive and then killed or shot in the air or somehow injured fatally once ejected from their aircraft -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Paton Walsh reporting live for us this morning. We'll have much more when NEWSROOM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:51:17] COSTELLO: All right. About two hours ago the French president, Francois Hollande landed at Andrews Air Force Base. He was on his way to the White House where he has arrived to meet with President Obama to talk about how to effectively fight ISIS in light of those Paris attacks.

You see President Hollande's car pulling up to the White House. Inside he met with President Obama. We saw earlier pictures of them and what we in the media call a pool spray. There they are, sitting together. We expected them to say a few words, but they did not. We do expect them to hold a news conference in just about an hour and a half, 11:30 Eastern time.

Let's go outside -- I was just listening to what the President was saying. Nothing important -- he's just saying hello to reporters. Let's go outside the White House and check in with Michelle Kosinski.

Needless to say there are dozens of French reporters gathering in front of the White House to listen to this news conference. Michelle Kosinski is with one of them. Introduce us -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. This is Mohamad Said Ouafi with France 24. He is based in Washington, D.C. But I know a lot of your colleagues traveled here from Paris. And you get a sense of anticipation here to see what is going to come out of this meeting.

Do you think it's going to be discussion or are you expecting concrete decisions or changes to be made? What is the talk of this in Paris?

MOHAMED SAID OUAFI, FRANCE 24 REPORTER: Well, some would say this is talk for talk because we are here in a situation where there is a paradoxical, very big difference between the two presidents. When Hollande wants solutions today, Obama may want it gradually. He may be willing to ask for boots on the ground. I'm sure he's going to ask knowing that Obama already anticipated this very same question a week ago in Antalya Turkey and he said no boots on the ground. Anything else, we more than welcome.

We are talking probably intelligence exchange, some help and contribution to this new coalition.

KOSINSKI: And it sounds like more of the same, basically. Do you think anything will substantially change? And it's interesting, as you were talking to me before, you said Hollande is really now kind of beating that drum whereas before it was much more --

OUAFI: Oh, yes. That's a very funny thing. After the post- 9/11, we had the Jacques Chirac (ph) saying no to the war, no invasion -- no, no, no. And now we have Hollande beating the drums. And Obama is saying, hey, wait a minute. Wait a minute. War is not the solution here.

We have casualties, we have civilians, economic issues, we have the Iraq war wasn't that good for the U.S. economy, for the U.S. Social life, in general. We had different position at that time. Today we are talking about Barack Obama willing to do it his way through the coalition already on the ground, working -- well, in the sky, not in the ground. But we are here now, France, with a different position and perspective.

KOSINSKI: Mohamed Ouafi -- thank you so much. And good luck today.

OUAFI: Very welcome.

KOSINSKI: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks -- Michelle. Thank you very much.

I have to take a break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:29] COSTELLO: All right. We have new images we want to share with you right now. That Russian warplane downed by a Turkish F-16. You can see it there clearly in the air. It was shot down by an air-to-air missile at 19,000 feet. The pilots ejected and were apparently shot as they parachuted to the ground by Syrian rebels on the ground.

Right now it appears that both of the Russian pilots -- well, at least one of them are dead. The other we just don't know. We'll keep you posted.

Checking on some other top stories for you at 58 minutes past.

In Minneapolis, police are searching for several gunmen after five people were shot and wounded overnight near a Black Lives Matter protest. Here's how it sounded over the police radio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're getting reports of possibly three shots. There's five suspects. Somebody's stating there's a group of white supremacists that started shooting in the area. Five suspects total.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 461 -- we've arrived. There's a large group coming towards us northbound on the 14th from Plymouth.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Demonstrators have been outside the police station for ten days now. They're protesting the shooting death of an unarmed African-American man by police.

The NFL says it's investigating why Rams quarterback Case Keenum was allowed to keep playing Sunday after getting slammed to the ground. Keenum clearly had trouble standing up afterward but he kept playing after being checked by a team trainer. Only later was he found to have a concussion. According to NFL policy, a medical spotter should have kept Keenum from returning to the game.

[11:00:04] Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.