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EARLY START

170 Hostages Taken at Bamako Hotel; Italy Ramps Up Security After ISIS Threatens Rome; Police: Third Body Found in Saint Denis Apartment; Mother on Mission to Prevent Youth Radicalization. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[04:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CO-ANCHOR, "EARLY START," CNN: We're going to have much more on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HALA GORANI, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN, LONDON: Welcome back, everybody. To our viewers around the world and in the United States, you're watching our special coverage of the Paris terrorist attack. I'm Hala Gorani.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman. We are live in Paris this morning, but there is some breaking news outside of this city right now from Mali. A Radisson Hotel in the capital of Mali, Bamako, under attack right now. We are hearing that 170 hostages have been taken. U.N. troops have been called in to help the local ground forces with the situation.

GORANI: Right. It must be terrifying for the people there. A government spokesperson said military forces on the ground, they've set up a perimeter around the hotel. It is an active situation. The U.S. Embassy in Mali is advising American citizens and staffers to remain indoors.

BERMAN: This Radisson in Bamako is known as a place where Westerners in that city go, spend time, hang out. Very possible some of them being held hostage right now in this ongoing situation.

GORANI: And of course France had military operations in 2013 in Mali against Islamic forces there and really you could say it was a successful...

BERMAN: Yes.

GORANI: ...operation for the French there. If this is a way of making a point on the part of Islamist fighters in that country that we are going to hit back in Mali, this would be the way to do it, to go after foreigners, international customers at that Radisson in Bamako.

BERMAN: At this point we don't know if there is direct connection, but certainly a symbolic reason to think that there could be.

GORANI: Right.

[04:34:59] BERMAN: There's also some new information this morning here in Paris about the presumed whereabouts of the man who could have been involved in planning those attacks.

GORANI: Now a source close to the investigation is telling us at CNN that Abdelhamid Abaaoud was seen on security footage, closed circuit television. He was at a Metro station at the same time the Bataclan siege was underway.

BERMAN: French police confirm that Abaaoud was one of two people killed in the pre-dawn raid in the Paris suburb of St. Denis on Wednesday. CNN's Erin Burnett spoke with Nathalie Gallant. She is the attorney representing Abaaoud's father and, according to that man, Abaaoud believes his son was a psychopath and the father is now relieved that he is dead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHALIE GALLANT: Yes, he was relieved because he, he, he knew already in the last month that his son was linked to all the terrorism acts which happened in Europe. He was afraid to, to learn that his son, Abdelhamid had maybe again committed something horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: In fact a read an article quoting the sister of Abdelhamid Abaaoud long before these Paris attacks, because this man has been known to authorities, when it was believed he'd been killed Syria. We now perhaps believe that he faked his own death. His sister also quoted as saying, I sure hope he is dead.

BERMAN: Right, they had hoped he was dead at the time.

GORANI: Right. His own family wanted him dead. Now, of course, it's confirmed. But back to ISIS and these videos that have been emerging over the last several days, fighters are vowing to attack the United States, France again, and Italy, all places that the group has threatened.

BERMAN: And the FBI says it is not aware of any credible Paris- style threat in the United States. But the FBI says it is taking the possibility of a copy-cat attack very seriously, as you imagine they would.

GORANI: And Italy is ramping up its security measures in light of all these threats. St. Peter's Square recently featured on the cover of that online ISIS magazine. And this, coupled with all new threats, is triggering security concerns over the upcoming jubilee. That's a major Catholic event taking place next month.

BERMAN: I want to go to our Vatican correspondent, Delia Gallagher, who is Rome for more right now. Delia.

DELIA GALLAGHER, SENIOR EDITOR, "VATICAN" MAGAZINE, ROME: Hi John and Hala. Well the Italian Foreign Minister said yesterday that they have names of five possible terrorist suspects here in Italy whom they are working to identify. That is the extent of the information coming from the Foreign Minister yesterday. The U.S. Embassy here in Rome issued a warning to U.S. citizens, identifying three possible vulnerable sites for attacks, St. Peter's Basilica, as you mentioned, as well as La Scala, that's their opera house in Milan that's due to have their opening night on December 7th, as well Milan's main Catholic cathedral. The U.S. Embassy urging U.S. citizens here to be vigilant as well around churches, synagogues, hotels, restaurants, and so on. Now the Interior Minister said yesterday that Italy has moved 1,000 military to guard important sites around Rome and Italy. He says this was a plan which they had in place, ready to go, for December 8th, the date which Hala mentioned as the start date for Pope Francis' special jubilee year, but they have moved that up in light of the Paris attacks.

Now the Italian police force is also saying they want a visible security presence around the streets of Rome and throughout Italy. I can attest to that. In the Metro, around the Vatican, and around important sites, we are seeing increased security. However, Italian authorities are very firmly pointing out that they do not have any credible plans for attack in Italy, but urging everyone to be vigilant. We should say that the increased security that we are seeing now we have seen before when ISIS released videos in September of last year and in January of this year, specifically mentioning Rome as a possible target. So we have seen in the past this higher level of security. Indeed, they are on a level 2 alert, which is the highest level next to being directly under attack. In all this, Pope Francis, something of a reassuring figures. He is continuing business as usual. We saw him Wednesday in St. Peter's Square, going around, greeting the crowds in his open-air Pope mobile, and the Pope has on schedule to go to Africa. A five-day trip in Africa starting next Wednesday, which the Vatican says will go ahead as planned. John, Hala.

[04:39:52] GORANI: Delia Gallagher is live in Rome. We'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back, everybody. Let's update you on that breaking news now from Mali, in Bamako. A Radisson Blu hotel in the capital has been attacked. This is an unfolding, developing situation. We're hearing 170 hostages have been taken and that U.N. troops are helping local forces there on the ground.

BERMAN: Yeh, a government spokesperson says military forces they have set up a perimeter around the hotel. This is a very serious, ongoing situation. The U.S. Embassy in Mali is advising U.S. citizens and staffers stay at home, remain indoors, stay far away from what's going on right there. Let's go right now to David McKenzie, who's watching this situation. David, what can you tell us?

DAVID McKENZIE, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN, JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA: Well, what I can tell is that U.S. Embassy alert that came out on social media was, appeared to be right as the initial moments of that shooting took place. They said there was an active shooting situation. Just moments ago we spoke to a spokesperson of the U.N. Stabilization Force. There's obviously a very, at this stage certainly, brittle cease fire in Mali between the forces in the north and in the capital. The Radisson hotel is well known as a place where ex-pats living in the country, for French and other foreign nationals, to go to, as well as businessmen. There was a peace delegation having talks there this week, according to the U.N. spokesperson. They say around 170 people are being taken hostage right now, according to the AFP, two gunmen, it seems, in that hotel. There have reports that people are leaving the hotel. We cannot confirm that. What we do know is that his is a very serious attack of some kind, targeting a, a hotel which is well known for its linkages to the West, and obviously in a country where the French military has been very deeply involved in recent years. Hala and John.

[04:45:00] GORANI: All right. And, David, I wanted to ask you about that French military involvement in Mali because, if somebody wanted to make a point that they were striking back at France or striking France full stop, Mali would be potentially a place to do it. Explain why.

McKENZIE: Well certainly it's an ex-French colony, the French military and French government has been heavily involved for many years. In 2012, in the beginning of the year, there was a Taureg and Islamic insurgency backed effectively by Al-Qaeda-linked groups that pushed from the northern part of the country towards the capital, Bamako, where this attack is ongoing right now. It was the French military that intervened heavily to stop that group and groups from marching on to the capital and taking it from a, a, an interim government. So the French then handed that off to a U.N. peacekeeping force. They are in peace negotiations now. That certainly will be shattered by this event. It's a very serious event, ongoing. They've created a perimeter around that hotel. There're still reports of gunfire. The spokesman of the Presidency in Mali saying that foreign and Malian forces on the ground involved in that operation right now and presumably terrifying moments for more a hundred people trapped in that hotel right now, being held hostage. Hala.

BERMAN: We have at this point the numbers we've been given, 140 guests there, perhaps 30 staff there. What kind of terror operation or terror groups have been operating in Mali over the last few years. Obviously there has been a presence there, enough of a presence that France did commit military forces.

McKENZIE: Well I think the initial forces, you know, the French have had forces in that region even before the crisis of 2012, and particularly because of the threat of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb, which is very active in Mali and adjoining countries in the Sahel regions. So the French and other countries have been very involved. There's been a state of terror attacks, striking mines and installations and, in August, U.N. workers. So there's an ongoing terror threat. Now because of the wake of the Paris attacks, obviously the immediate question is, is this somehow linked? I think it's far too early to say that. Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb, according to experts, isn't directly and necessarily linked to ISIS. They may even be competitors in a sense. This might be more about the peace agreement ongoing. But the fact that they are hitting the Radisson is very significant, this hotel which is well known amongst ex-pats and travelers who go through Mali. That has to be significant at this stage and factored in in the early analysis. But again, this is an ongoing situation. We will expect, I think, French forces and others to be on the scene as of right now.

BERMAN: David McKenzie for us, covering this. If you wanted to hit a Western target in Bamako, in Mali, it would be the Radisson hotel in that city.

GORANI: The Radisson Blu, 190 rooms, just looking up some of the details regarding that hotel. Potentially 170 people trapped. Reports of deaths that we have not confirmed. Unclear how many gunmen, but this is an unfolding situation, and we'll have a lot more on it as soon as we learn more details. More from Paris in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:52:19] BERMAN: All right. Breaking news here in Paris. John Berman along with Hala Gorani. Paris prosecutors now telling us that they've identified or found a third body at the location of that police raid in St. Denis, the raid where Abdelhamid Abaaoud was killed. So there were now three people killed in that raid, Abaaooud, the woman who we know about, who apparently his cousin, and now a third body also found at that location.

GORANI: So basically we don't know if that third body is male or female. We know that the identification of two of them is not known, not confirmed. We know Abaaoud is one of the bodies, we know a female is one of the bodies, presumed to be his cousin, Hasna Aitboulahcen, and then there's a third body and we don't have an ID on that.

BERMAN: What's truly remarkable is this just goes to show the force, the level of violence in the altercation that was there. It has taken days, not just to identify the identity of the bodies, but to identify how many...

GORANI: Exactly.

BERMAN: ...that were inside.

GORANI: Now we know three, including Abaaoud, including a female. Once we have more, we'll bring you that of course. But let's take it back to sort of the wider picture. Tackling radicalization is one of the major issues in combating home-grown terrorism, and the campaign to weed it out has found an ally in the form of a mother who lost her son in an attack in 2012.

BERMAN: Now the Moroccan immigrant tries to dissuade prison inmates in France from joining jihadi movements. On Thursday she was rewarded for her work. Our CNN international correspondent, Jim Bittermann, has her story:

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT, CNN, PARIS: Long before the French attacks, a foundation begun by a former French President decided that an immigrant mother from Morocco should be awarded this year's annual peace prize. The reason, Latifa Ibn-Ziaten has worked tirelessly against Islamic radicalization, the works she started after her 30-year-old son, Imad, an off-duty French paratrooper was shot in cold blood by terrorist Mohammed Merah in 2012. Merah went on to kill six others, including children and teachers at a Jewish school in the South of France. But he began, not as a terrorist, but a common criminal, a trafficker in drugs and stolen cars. And, like a growing list of terrorists here, he became radicalized while serving prison time. Learning that, Ziaten formed an association named after her son and began visiting prisons to speak to inmates, hoping to stop them from turning into terrorists.

LATIFA IBN-ZIATEN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): A prisoner needs help because, by himself in his cell, he is not communicating with anyone. If he stays in his cell, he gets filled with more hatred. So he needs someone from the outside who will help him.

[04:55:05] BITTERMANN: Ziaten was horrified at the events here in the past week and blames authorities for being complacent.

ZIATEN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): There was the Merah case, and then always put aside. Then Charlie Hebdo, and we forgot about this just as well. And today, the very same. The heart of Paris was struck again.

BITTERMANN: At her award ceremony she told President Hollande face to face that more had to be done to end discrimination, improve the economic lot of young people who live in France's tough suburbs, and help her in her efforts with the prisons. If not, she told me later, security forces will never win the battle against terrorists.

ZIATEN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): They are everywhere. This is why it is urgent that we do what we have to do.

BITTERMANN: Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: All right. I'm Hala Gorani, thanks for watching. Our special coverage continues after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, CNN, NEW YORK: All right. Breaking news right now. An unfolding situation, gunmen attacking a Radisson hotel in Mali, 170 hostages locked inside. Fast- moving developments here. Good morning and welcome to "Early Start." I'm Christie Romans in New York.

BERMAN: And John Berman in Paris. It is Friday, November 20th, it's 5:00 am in the East, it's 11:00 am here. We do want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world.

ROMANS: We're going to get back to John in Paris in a moment with the developments on the Paris terror attacks, but first a hostage situation unfolding this morning at a Radisson hotel in Mali. Witnesses report hearing automatic weapon fire. About 140 guest and 30 employees, we're told, are...