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Terrorists Storm Luxury Hotel in Mali; New Discovery in Paris Suburb Raid; U.N. Official: At Least 3 Dead in Mali Hotel Attack. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 20, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:43] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Armed terrorists storm a Radisson Hotel in Mali taking hostages. Another act of terror just one week after the attacks in Paris.

Good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Anderson Cooper live in Paris. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. There is a lot to get to in the hour ahead. We begin with the breaking news out of Mali in Africa.

A counterattack is under way right now in Bamako, the capital of Mali, where U.S. Special Forces are helping retake the Radisson Blu Hotel. According to state TV dozens of hostages have been released but the hotel says more than 100 are still trapped inside - Carol.

COSTELLO: That attack began early this morning, Anderson, when gunmen stormed a luxury hotel reportedly carrying AK-47s and riding in a vehicle bearing diplomatic license plates. At this hour, we know that three people have been killed, two others injured.

COOPER: And the American embassy is urging all Americans in Bamako to stay where they are and the French armed forces sending out this photo of a 10-member elite tactical team headed to Bamako right now.

We begin our coverage with CNN international correspondent David McKenzie. He's following the story for us from Johannesburg.

David, what are you hearing? What's the latest?

Excuse me. Not David McKenzie. Robyn Kriel. What's the latest from you, Robyn?

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good afternoon here in Nairobi, Anderson. And what I can tell you is that, as you said, a 10-member elite group of special forces from France heading to help in Bamako as well as U.S. special forces operating on the ground trying to help the situation as well, trying to rescue hostages. And we're not exactly sure how involved they are, if they're actually going in, if they're engaging with the attackers or if they're just providing help on the ground in other forms such as logistics and of course checking on U.S. citizens as well.

We do know, Anderson, that the U.S. embassy in Bamako has increased its security and that there might be additional forces heading from around Africa to help in Bamako to help secure the embassy that's quite close to the Radisson Hotel if this does turn into a protracted hostage siege.

I spoke earlier, Anderson, with a U.S. hostage rescue expert and he told me about the essence and the real need in this situation for speed and surprise. He said that in a hotel of this size there are obviously a number of places to hide. There are a number of places for guests to hide but as well as the attackers themselves, and he said that there are -- there has to be certain criteria that is known without a doubt before people can go into rescue hostages.

They have to know the exact location of where the attackers are. They cannot be wrong with this because if they are and they go in the wrong place where the attackers hear them, this of course can mean more innocent people being killed. They also have to have a failsafe way, Anderson, of getting in, a failsafe breech to get in as quickly as possible because once they are in, once they have breeched that particular area, then the attackers will know that they are there. They have to only be a certain amount of seconds, really, not minutes, to reach the hostages and take out the attackers.

COOPER: Robyn, is it known exactly how many terrorists there are inside that hotel holding these hostages? Also, do we know the exact number of people being held at this point? Because I understand about 80 or so people were released if they were able to -- according to one local reporter, if they were able to give a profession of Islamic faith. If they could show that they were Muslim, they were let go. Do we know how many terrorists there are?

KRIEL: We're hearing two to three. But this could -- this might change. And it might be that security forces haven't seen a couple of them. And it could be -- it could even just be one at this point, we're not really sure, and it is very fluid on the ground. We're not sure also how many hostages there are inside.

As you said we had heard 180, 170 hostages were taken initially and that 80 had been released because they could -- what we understand, at least one report said that they were able to recite certain Islamic verses. That is why they were released. But we're not entirely sure that is true. They could have also been rescued.

[09:05:01] So this is very fluid but we do know that there is at least more than 100 people stuck inside and it would be of varying degrees of people. It would be local Malian staff members of the hotel, it would also be Westerners, perhaps aide workers, the usual sort of people that you would see in a city such as this perhaps. We do know that three United Nations staffers were safely evacuated early this morning. But essentially that's it as of now.

COOPER: All right. Robyn Kriel, appreciate the reporting from Nairobi for us. Thank you very much.

I want to talk now with our CNN military analyst, Cedric Leighton. We're also joined by CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

Colonel, obviously, for the security personnel this is an extremely difficult operation. In the United States, the belief now in an active shooter situation is you have to go in quickly. The whole notion of -- the old motion of holding hostages for negotiation in the U.S., that is sort of now -- the belief is with active shooters that's not really the case. It's often just a delaying tactic.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: That's right, Anderson. And what's happening now is people are understanding that the hole, what they call the loop in which you make those decisions has shortened. And that loop is one in which we know that the terrorists are going for maximum killing effect. They're not going to take the hostages for ransom. That was the old model. Now what you're seeing is somebody going in and they want to kill. And that is the assumption. And because they want to kill, the counterterrorism forces have to go in with the idea that we have got to prevent them from killing the hostages as much as we possibly can.

COOPER: Do we know much about the capability of the -- the Special Forces in Mali? I mean, the U.N. personnel are also on the scene helping to establish a perimeter around the hotel and we're reporting a French tactical team is on their way. And U.S. Special Forces are said to be involved on some level. But it's got to be critical that the capability is in Mali.

LEIGHTON: That's right. Well, the capability in Mali is minimal at best. They've gotten training from U.S. Special Operations Forces, they've gotten training also from the French. There is a good reason why the French tactical team is on its way. They are there to assist and possibly to lead a hostage rescue effort. But of course it takes them a while to get from France all the way to Mali.

COOPER: And time is of the essence. Paul Cruickshank, talk a little bit about what we have seen in Mali over the last year or so. The French forces are really up in the north. They're actually not based in this hotel. They're farther north. They have been dealing with this Islamist insurgency which had really controlled large swaths of the country and they were able to beat that back.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yes. I mean, the back story here is that jihadis took over a lot of the northeast of the country. They were advancing towards Bamako back in late 2012 and the French sent in forces to reverse that. They were driven back away from Bamako. The French took hold of some of these areas, took back some of these areas in northeastern Mali.

But in the last year or two there's been a gathering Islamist insurgency fueled by these weapons coming in from Libya, fueled by the sort of general chaos in the region. And you have a number of jihadi groups now operating across Mali. Some with affiliation towards ISIS. Some with affiliations towards al Qaeda. The powerful group there, Mujao, that just in May switched allegiance from al Qaeda to ISIS.

I think it's possible that we could see this as an ISIS-linked attack if this is the group. But it could also be a couple of the al Qaeda groups. One called Ansar Dine, significantly their leader appeared in an audio tape just a month ago saying that they were going to launch more attacks against French interests in Mali. And then there's Mokhtar Belmokhtar's group, this one-eyed Algerian terrorists we've talked a lot about on CNN.

COOPER: He had taken over oil fields several years go.

CRUICKSHANK: Exactly, Anderson. The In Amenas gas oil facility in southern Algeria. And they held hostages there. A lot of hostages were killed when the Algerian security forces went in. That same group claimed responsibility for an attack on a restaurant in Bamako in March, where French and Belgian national we killed. They're pretty rare these attacks by the way in Bamako and so this is a very significant event. I think there's probably a lot of questions, though, about security at this hotel.

They knew there was this threat out there. This is one of -- you know, it's one of the top hotels, luxury hotels, over there. It seems they may have been able to somehow gain access for using diplomatic number plates. I mean, that's pretty easy to do. You just put in a fake number plate. And perhaps that's the way they got in but obviously a lot of concern, as we've been talking about, that -- you know, just like in the Bataclan here in Paris, that they may try and kill as many as possible inside this hotel. And of course this reminds us a lot as well about that siege in the Taj Mahal Hotel in Bombay.

COOPER: Right.

CRUICKSHANK: In Mumbai in 2008.

COOPER: Right. The difference of course with that is, I mean, those were -- there were 10 Pakistan terrorists there. I mean, the idea that -- again we don't know the full number. The earlier report said two to three terrorists. But the idea that two to three terrorists could take hundred plus -- 170 plus hostages, I mean, it shows you the speed with which this can occur. The fear with which it can be instilled in people. But it's -- the numbers are pretty small.

[09:10:11] LEIGHTON: They are pretty small. However, I'd be a bit suspicious that it's only two or three people. A large hotel like the Radisson Blu in Bamako is going to be one that requires a bit of planning and it also requires enough of a dispersion of forces to go in and grab as many people as you possibly can.

COOPER: Right. Often with these hotels, I mean, there is an outer layer of security. If you're driving in, you usually have to open up your car. They usually have layers of security, even metal detectors before you're going in.

LEIGHTON: Right. That's true. But the thing is in many cases those metal detectors aren't manned properly. And that's one of the big weaknesses is that we do a lot of show for security but we don't necessarily implement the security. And that's where all the hotels, all throughout the world, are really going to have to step up how they do this because any hotel is a possible place where something like this could happen.

COOPER: We've just got gotten word that four Chinese nationals have been freed from this hotel. And of course the report again we haven't been able to independently confirm this that Muslims inside the hotel, if they could show a profession of faith, if they could recite certain verses they were allowed to leave as well. I mean, the systematic nature of this is very telling, I think.

LEIGHTON: It is absolutely very telling and it's very clear what their not only their ideology is but also what they are trying to do from a, in essence, a military standpoint if we can classify them briefly as a military force. They're going to go in and they're going to take over as much as they can, get a maximum impact, and when they get that impact, they are going to then use that to further their brand and make it very well known not only who they are but what they can do and they'll achieve their political goals as a result.

CRUICKSHANK: No claims of responsibility yet. We'll be monitoring that, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Certainly. Paul Cruickshank, thank you. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you very much.

There's a lot more to cover both from Mali and also on the ground here in Paris. Want to return to the Paris terror attacks.

A new detail emerges from the ruins of Wednesday's deadly police raid in Saint-Denis. Police combing through the wreckage left by explosions and gunfire. Discover the body of a third person. Our Clarissa Ward is in Saint-Denis where that raid unfolded.

Clarissa, this is fascinating because we have been told obviously that police have been combing through the wreckage. We knew the wreckage was extensive. One floor was said to have collapsed with the various explosions that went on and that they were examining DNA evidence. But what have you learned about this third person and what's going on there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. Well, that apartment building is really just behind me there. There are still forensic experts on the scene. They are still combing through that site because while we now know that a third person, a male, was killed along with the alleged -- the ringleader of Friday's Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, also his cousin, that female suicide bomber, Hasna Aitboulahcen, we now know that there's also a third person among the dead, a male suspect. We don't know exactly who he is.

But I want you to take a look at some video, extraordinary video obtained by ABC News that shows the moment after that female suicide bomber detonated her explosive vest. Take a listen.

You can really see the force of the blast there, Anderson. Those windows are blown out. There's actually planes coming out of the window, it gives you a sense of just what forensic experts who are still up in that apartment are dealing with. Meanwhile, of course, the search is still continuing for that eight attackers, Salah Abdelsam. French authorities say there's also another suspect who they are searching for.

And I want to just give you some of these numbers. I don't like to bombard our viewers with numbers but these numbers from the Interior Ministry are extraordinary. In the last five days, Anderson, there have been nearly 800 searches across the country. More than 100 arrests. Last night alone, more than 182 raids, 20 people arrested, 76 weapons seized. I mean, the numbers here really are extraordinary. This is still very much an active manhunt not just for that eighth attacker, not just for that other suspects who they're looking for. But also for anyone potentially involved in that network -- Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa, a number of raids also in Belgium, of course, where they believe that eighth terrorist may be. He was apprehended on his way there early Saturday morning after the attacks. He was let go because they didn't realize his connection to the attacks Friday.

[09:15:04] We'll continue to follow that with Clarissa.

Still to come, in the hour ahead, we're going to have more on the hostage situation in Mali. The latest on the deadly siege and how Special Forces are trying to take back this hotel from gunmen.

Also, Erin Burnett, who reported from Mali back in 2012, what she has to say about the attack, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello.

Early this morning, attackers stormed a luxury hotel in Mali. Right now, more than 100 people are still being held inside, being taken hostage by gun-toting terrorists. So far, no one has claimed responsibility.

But Mali has a long and complicated history with the French, who are now battling ISIS at home. Just yesterday, the French President Francois Hollande spoke about his country's war with ISIS and their efforts in Mali.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): France is leading this war, with its armed forces, its soldiers, whose courage I congratulate.

[09:20:08] It was carried out, this war, with its allies, its partners, giving us all the means available, as we did in Mali, as we're going to continue in Iraq, as we will continue in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Erin Burnett travelled to Mali, to the Mali border, back in 2012, to report on the terror threat in that country.

Welcome, Erin.

American-owned hotel, there's French military in Mali. It's hard not to connect the dots here.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT": It's certainly true. The Radisson Blu is really the main international hotel chain that's in Mali, in Bamako. You would see the French military mission stays there, international peacekeepers stay there. Just yesterday, a major international mining conference, which would have had CEOs from Western Europe, around the world, would have been there, were at this hotel.

So, the question I'm hearing from people who are familiar with Bamako itself and the terror groups that may operate in that area, they think it was a question of whether it was an opportunistic target, or actually carefully select it. They don't yet know the answer.

But one security individual, who's on the region, talking about this Islamic terror groups, tells me there was a video that came out just yesterday from Ansar Dine, which is an Islamic radical group that operates in Mali saying that they should conduct suicide attacks in Mali against the French. So, this video came out just yesterday, citing the Paris attacks. They have not claimed responsibility. We don't know if this group was responsible, or its leader, Iyad Ag Ghaly, but he did put out this video just yesterday, calling for suicide attacks.

COSTELLO: As far as the specific terror groups operating within Mali, because you reported on that as well, you reported on that and also where the weaponry is coming from, that these terrorists may be using.

BURNETT: Yes, a lot of the weapons they've been getting are coming from Libya. This has been happening for several years now. It's been an open pipeline, because of the complete -- the chaos and lack of government in Libya. So, those weapons have been coming down. These groups have made a lot of use of that.

The French have come in and been fighting, but attacks have been growing. Just this year, we've seen attacks -- there was one at a bus station in Bamako a couple of months ago, in August. Attacks against civilians, U.N. peacekeepers, the group used to operate more in the north of the country where we were on the border at refugee camps. They've now been pushing further and further south.

COSTELLO: So, is it al Qaeda? Is it ISIS? Who is it?

BURNETT: So, it was actually -- the question is, and the answer is, no one really knows at this point. These groups had started to pledge allegiance to al Qaeda a few years ago and become sort of al Qaeda operating affiliates.

There was a leader, Mokhtar Belmokhtar. We spoke to some of his affiliates. People that we spoke to on the ground were terrified of him. He was the leader and reportedly was killed this summer. So, what sources are telling me today is that there's a real vacuum in Mali right now as to which jihadist is going to be the leader. So, it could be a group trying to stage an ISIS-affiliated, ISIS-

inspired attack. It could be al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb again in that region, trying to raise a new leader, if it is indeed this Iyad Ag Ghaly, who is an Islamist leader, is someone trying to take over and say, I am the new leader, I am the new Mokhtar Belmokhtar.

COSTELLO: OK. So, I should have asked you from the get-go, did you stay at that Radisson Hotel when you were there? You did not?

BURNETT: No, no, no. We actually were not. I've been in Bamako, but I was not in Bamako on that trip. We were actually at a refugee camp, along the northern border.

COSTELLO: And I asked you that because, surely, there's security put into place at an American-owned hotel in Mali, since, you know, the government there knows that terrorists are operating, it may target Americans or French nationals.

BURNETT: I'm not sure that there was and I talked to a couple of people who stayed in the hotel. They haven't told me that there was, but I'm not -- there could have been security. But this is a hotel chain that has been rapidly growing in Africa. I stayed in Radisson Blu in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia. They're new. They're nice.

This would have been -- certainly, in terms of international brand, the nicest hotel in Bamako, and, of course, therefore, on all of Mali.

COSTELLO: OK. And we know that there's still about 100 people still inside that hotel, 35 of them are employees, 80 managed to escape somehow. We don't really know. We know that U.S. forces are somehow involved at this moment. It's just so hard to get information out of there for obvious reasons.

BURNETT: Yes, yes. Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Erin Burnett, thanks for stopping by. We'll see you next hour, too.

BURNETT: All right.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much.

BURNETT: And we can watch complete coverage of the terror attacks in Mali with Erin Burnett. That's tonight on OUTFRONT, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Coming up at the NEWSROOM, the situation in Mali is still very active, unfolding minute by minute. Up next, we'll take you -- we'll have the latest on the ground, including how U.S. Special Forces are assisting the rescue mission.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:41] COOPER: Welcome back.

We're following breaking news this morning. One week after terror ripped through the streets of Paris, another terror attack is underway. This time at a Radisson Hotel in the African country of Mali and the capital Bamako.

Right now, U.S. Special Forces are said to be assisting with the rescue mission after at least two gunmen stormed the hotel armed with AK-47s. At least three people are dead, including a French citizen.

This is still a very active situation, active shooter situation. State TV now reporting dozens of people have been freed. The Radisson says more than 100 are still trapped inside.

Malian soldiers are now launching a counter-assault against those attackers. The exact nature of that we're not quite sure.

I want to go to the phone now to journalist Katarina Hoije. She's based in the capital city of Bamako, where the attack is taking place.

Katarina, what's the latest you know from the ground there?

KATARINA HOIJE, JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, the latest, a couple of minutes ago, we heard gunfire coming from inside the hotel and over the last 30 to 45 minutes or so, we have seen international forces, among them French forces, moving into the building. And after that, the gunfire continued. I'm actually seeing some people standing --

COOPER: Katarina, are you still there?

Unfortunately, we lost our connection with Katarina. We'll try to reestablish that and bring her back as soon as we can.

Right now, a U.N. spokesman tells CNN that the gunmen arrived at the hotel in Mali, in a vehicle or multiple vehicles with diplomatic plates, armed with AK-47s.