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33 Militants Dead in Syria Airstrikes; Police Raids in France. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 18, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[10:32:29] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: More airstrikes targeting ISIS both in Syria and Iraq. They may be working. A humanitarian group is reporting that some ISIS leaders and members of their families have been abandoning the terror group's self-proclaimed capital of Raqqa because it's no longer safe. Those moves coming after a series of strikes over the last three days have killed at least 33 suspected militants.

Now, to focus on this part of the fight, I want to bring in two of our CNN military analysts: former commanding general of Europe and 7th army, Mark Hertling; and Colonel Peter Mansoor.

General Hertling, the level of raids that we've been seeing, the level of airstrikes how many targets are there that actually can be struck? I mean there are reports that some of these targets are being hit multiple times. Are there more targets out there that aren't being hit?

I talked to a congresswoman earlier who was critical, saying there are more targets but that the rules of engagement make it difficult to strike those targets. Is that true?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: That's somewhat of an uninformed view -- Anderson. I would suggest that early on in the campaign there were very few targets just because we didn't have the intelligence we needed on the ground in Syria. And to a lesser degree, you also have the potential for collateral damage.

But as you get more info, as the people on the ground, both the Kurds and the Syrian Free Forces start feeding information -- and we've seen indicators that they are feeding that information, you have more targets to strike.

Remember, early on in the war, there was a human cry about only one-fourth of the planes were dropping their bombs and three-quarters of them were coming back. That's changed radically over the last couple months as we've gained more intelligence.

And yes, it's not only a physical factor of dropping a lot of weapons, but it's also a psychological factor of continued pounding of these fighters in Syria and Iraq.

COOPER: So it's not the case -- I mean we're hearing that that drumbeat from a lot of folks who are critical of the air campaigns so far who say, look, that pilots are returning with, you know, with bombs that have been fired, with munitions that haven't been used and that the gloves need to come off. You're saying essentially that's not the case?

HERTLING: It's not the case anymore. When we were flying early on from the UAE, you're talking about several hours of flight time against a pre-planned target. So you have a target set. You go in. You strike it. And then you return. You maybe refuel and do another pass.

[10:35:00] Now that we have aircraft in Incirlik and we have more observers on the ground, you're beginning to see what are called TICs -- troops in contact. And we're getting that information from both the Kurds and the Syrian Free Forces and they are feeding more information so an airplane can come over, do a rapid engagement of something that's fighting on the ground or a rapid intelligence target and return.

So you're going to see more and more as you get more and more information. That's the aspect of warfare that I think a lot of people in Washington really don't understand. You've got to fight for intelligence that drives the continued fights or the strikes.

COOPER: Colonel Peter Mansoor, I mean do you believe these airstrikes are being effective? Do you believe that they are enough?

COL. PETER MANSOOR, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, I don't. You know, the closest historical parallel is the Kosovo War when we bombed Serbia for several months, and they really didn't have an impact on the decision-making of the Serbian leadership, only Russian pressure caused them to withdraw finally.

You know, we're going to need a capable ground force to combine with the airstrikes before they will be effective. Ground forces can force the enemy to mass. That will provide targets to the airstrikes so that two-thirds of the planes don't go back to base with bombs still on board.

And in terms of bombing infrastructure, you know, it's pretty obvious to the folks in Raqqa, once they commit a terrorist act, that we're going to retaliate. And by all accounts, the humanitarian group on the ground Raqqa is being slaughtered silently -- the airstrikes hit empty warehouses and empty stadiums because the folks there had already left. Because they knew the airstrikes were going to come.

COOPER: General Hertling, what about that?

HERTLING: Truthfully Anderson, I'm sorry, I didn't hear what the Colonel Mansoor said. I'd disconnected from him.

COOPER: Ok. That's all right. The idea that some of these are, you know, hitting empty buildings or hitting buildings that have already been evacuated by ISIS forces in Raqqa.

HERTLING: Well, certainly -- and that's true at any given time. When you're going to hit -- conduct strikes, very different from the early stages of either Desert Storm or the early stages of Afghanistan and Iraq when you're going after known government buildings, what we're talking about is individual fighters that are trying to establish a state.

So yes, you're going to have some strikes against buildings where there's no one there. But truthfully, I think as we get, again, going back to the better intelligence, when you have the observers on the ground, knowing where the target sets are and you can strike them, you know, that's the art of conflict.

And Anderson, the other thing that I would say is, you know, you have to know your enemy in the fight. There are three key tenets of any human conflict. Know your enemy. Adapt faster than he does. And then at the same time, provide him multiple ways to die and to influence his psychological behavior.

I think we've seen from intelligence, Nick Paton Walsh reported it in Sinjar, there were no follow-up fighting by ISIS after the Peshmerga took that city. There have been reportings by Michael Weiss saying that he's talked to ISIS fighters, and they're telling him that the pounding has been too much. And in fact, that may be one of the contributors that ISIS is expanding their target sets to outside Syria and Iraq. And I think we have to adapt very quickly and talk about security against those kind of attacks as well.

COOPER: All right. General Hertling, appreciate it; Colonel Mansoor as well. Thank you very much. We're going to take a short break.

A massive police raid in a northern suburb of Paris -- we'll take you to that neighborhood next.

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[10:43:07] COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the Paris terror attacks as well as the raids that took place earlier this morning here in Paris and the international manhunt for the eighth terror suspect.

I want to go to CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen. He is in the neighborhood where today's raids took place in Saint-Denis. Fred, police are still obviously on the scene trying to gather as much information they can, whatever evidence they can.

Bring us up to speed on what you're seeing around you and what we now know about exactly what took place.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, they're sort of downsizing the police operation. There's still a cordon in place, there's still a lot of police officers out there. The most recent thing that I've seen them do is actually put up 360-degree cameras so they can still monitor the area and make sure that nothing goes wrong there.

And you're absolutely right -- there are still forensic teams that we're seeing on the ground still going towards those apartments where all of this took place. Of course, trying to gather as much evidence from those apartments as possible, anything that they can get their hands on that, of course, would be very valuable to see whether or not there's still other people involved in this, if there's still any other sort of clues that would help them bring to light exactly who these people were that they were dealing with today. And also, of course, some of the clues towards what exactly happened and who exactly was involved also in the Paris attacks that happened on Friday.

Now, the raids here started at 4:30 in the morning. And it was interesting because I was speaking to someone on the scene who was witnessing all of this unfold. And he was just absolutely terrified, saying that there were these gunshots going off. There were explosions going off and that he had been told by the police to go back into his house immediately.

The police themselves, when they went to this apartment, apparently met some very fierce resistance -- a female suicide bomber who blew herself up and some other people in that apartment as well. In total, two of the terrorists were killed. Seven of them are in custody. Some of them, of course, were wounded. But the police do hope to gather some valuable information from them as well.

[10:45:11] You know, they keep saying that they came here just in the nick of time. And they believe that they did prevent something, another attack possibly that could have also caused major carnage -- Anderson.

COOPER: And obviously, what we don't know is we don't know the identity of the two who died. We know one was a female who detonated a suicide device. We don't know the identity of the other person, whether it could possibly be the alleged ringleader of the attacks on Friday night as well as what seems to be now a plan to carry out other attacks.

Because Fred, I think it's important to point out that this group that they raided today, French authorities are saying that they actually were planning further attacks.

PLEITGEN: Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what they're saying. And they're saying that they got here just in the nick of time. Now, what exactly the communication between this band of people here is and those that carried out the attacks that happened last Friday at this point is very unclear.

But one of the interesting things, of course, that we can already glean from what's been going on here is that they seem to have very similar arms on them especially in the case of one of them being able to blow themselves up. That certainly does indicate that there were some high-powered explosives inside that apartment. And so certainly the police here do believe that thanks to this raid, they did -- or this city did dodge a bullet -- Anderson.

COOPER: We're just getting some new pictures, I'm told, Fred, of the apartment where one of the raids took place. We know there were raids in two apartments that were across the street from each other. You get a sense of the damage.

This backs up some of what Paul Cruickshank was reporting just a short time ago from a source, a Belgian source that he was talking to about the explosives that were used against the suspects inside. According to his reporting, one floor actually seemed to have fallen through. It looks there on the third floor or so in an apartment there. Obviously a very dramatic raid early this morning that took place starting around 4:00 or so, 4:00 a.m. France time.

We'll continue to check in with you, Fred. We have breaking news this morning -- new details on the suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks. More on that, ahead.

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[10:52:03] COOPER: While the hunt for Salah Abdeslam pushes on, we're also learning new details about his ties to the suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks.

Joining me now is CNN international correspondent Ivan Watson. Ivan, what have we learned now?

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've learned about more links between some of these suspects here with Abdelhamid Abaaoud, evidently having spent time in prison in 2011, according to Belgian authorities with that fugitive right now, Salah Abdeslam whose house is directly behind me about 100 feet away from here.

And the last time that Salah Abdeslam was seen was driving away from Paris in the direction of Belgium. And he was stopped by French police, questioned and then released. This despite the fact that earlier this year, Belgian authorities had questioned him when they suspected that he and his older brother, Ibrahim, wanted to go to be jihadi volunteer fighters in Syria.

The French authorities let him go. He has since been missing. But the car that he was driving in was later found here in this Brussels neighborhood of Molenbeek.

Now Anderson -- let me just set the scene what's going on right now. In the main square here which was full of journalists yesterday talking about how this neighborhood has been a recruiting ground for a disturbing number of violent jihadis, right now you have a gathering of residents of this community that are trying to show their support and commemoration for the victims in Paris and also to kind of just make a show of peace.

And according to a communique released by the organizers here, they also want to declare that repression should not be a response to the terrorism acts that we've seen in Paris. This is a community that's had a big problem with high youth unemployment. It's had a problem with local crime as well. And, of course, the fact that far too many young men from this neighborhood have been recruited into the ranks of ISIS in Syria and have been participants in the terrorist acts in Paris of last Friday night -- Anderson. COOPER: Ivan, it is extraordinary how many of the people

involved in this are from that area. I mean this Abdelhamid -- he also used to live in that neighborhood.

WATSON: that's right. I mean, his father's house was about five minutes' walk from where I am right now. And his father also had a shop behind me. But as a resident here was just telling me, you know, that father went through a terrible tragedy because not only did his elder son go off and become an organizer in ISIS, but that Abaaoud man took away his 13-year-old younger brother to Syria. That is part of why he's one of the most notorious people from Belgium to join the ranks of ISIS. And Belgium is struggling with something -- the fact that this small country of 11 million people has contributed more fighters per capita to ISIS in the war in Syria than any other country in Western Europe -- Anderson.

[10:55:11] COOPER: Incredible to think he got his 13-year-old brother to go to Syria to join him in this death march.

Ivan Watson -- thank you very much. Appreciate that.

We'll have more here from Paris, also from Belgium. Seven arrested in the raids this morning; two dead, two hospitalized. The raid targeted the believed ringleader of the attack who now authorities believe may very well be here in Paris.

Thanks very much for joining us. Our coverage continues in just a moment.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan joining you from New York today. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world this hour.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And I'm John Berman live in Paris for CNN's special live coverage of an extraordinary turn of events here. This in the frantic search for the terror --