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Suspected Mastermind Was On Terrorism Radar; Russia Confirms Bomb Brought Down Passenger Plane; Debate Over U.S. Military Action Against ISIS; As Many As 20 People Involved In Paris Attack; Paris Attack; Syria's Terrorism Factory. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with a global manhunt, more punishing airstrikes, and a widening terror investigation, it's all in response to the carnage unleashed by ISIS over the last two and a half weeks. At least 422 people killed, 629 people wounded in four major ISIS attacks. The massacre in Paris, suicide bombings in Beirut and Baghdad and the downing of that the Russian passenger plane.

We're following new developments in the Paris terror investigations right now. One of the voices on the video claiming responsibility for the Paris attacks is that of a known ISIS operative, Fabian Clain, that according to French security sources.

In other developments, Russia now carrying new strikes in Syria after confirming that a bomb brought down that Russian jet over the Sinai killing all 224 people on board. France also launching a new round of Syrian airstrikes in Syria in retaliation for the Paris attacks. French authorities carried out dozens more raids.

Meanwhile, according to multiple news outlets, they found a car that had been rented by the eighth attacker. He's the focus of that global manhunt underway right now.

CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is standing by with the latest on the investigation. Our Justice Reporter Evan Perez is joining us as well. He has new details about prior warnings about the suspected mastermind. Evan, what are you learning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, the apparent links between the Paris attacks and earlier plots really center on Abdelhamid Abaaoud's. This is -- it comes from a U.S. Homeland Security intelligence reporter earlier that warned about Abaaoud's role in a plot that was broken out by Belgian police in January.

Now, people believe, police belief that he was a ring leader in a foil plot to attack police in Verviers. And police there in France suspect that he is now involved in these Paris attacks. And what police found in the raid in January in Verviers really looks a lot more ominous now in the hindsight of the Paris attack. They found weapons. They found precursor chemicals to make the explosive TATP and that's the same explosive that was used in this suicide vest worn by the Paris attackers. And they found a web of jihadist connections across Europe to safe houses in Greece and back to Syria. Now, authorities believe that Abaaoud faked his own death in Syria so that he could travel back and forth to Belgium undetected. And, you know, Wolf, all of this information was known to authorities in Belgium and the United States. And authorities still could not stop the Paris attack.

BLITZER: Well, stand by for a moment, Evan, I want to go back to Nic Robertson. He's in Paris. You're getting new information on the scope, the dynamics of this investigation. What are you learning?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the investigation has led the police to a hotel room that was used by the attackers, it appears, at least on the night before the attack. Also, an apartment that they had rented for the week leading up to the attack. Syringes were found in that apartment.

It's not clear if they were used in some way to help make the explosive vest, the suicide vests that these attackers were wearing. The vehicle that was discovered on the northern suburb of Paris today, armed French police went door to door.

Now, this was a vehicle with Belgium plates that was rented by the man that's on the run, Salah Abdeslam, the Frenchman who was living in Belgium, now on the run and international warrants out for him. He had rented that vehicle. The police discovering it today, door-to- door armed searchers.

But, perhaps, another big indicator as this -- as the information and evidence comes forward about this attack. The discovery that the audio on the threat by ISIS yesterday matches another French ISIS suspect, Fabien Clain, associated with the Toulouse (ph) attacker in 2012, spent time in jail because he was an Al Qaeda and Iraq recruiter.

As soon as he got out of jail, went to Syria. From Syria, he was involved, connected to the plot to attack a French church in April this year. Also connected to that attack by a gunman on the train coming from Brussels to Paris in August. That was thwarted by those three, brave, young Americans. Two of them serviceman who took that attacker down.

But this is man now who's threatening attacks more widely outside of France. But another senior figure within the ISISstructure emerging has had a hand and role, it appears, in the attack -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, thanks very much. Evan Perez, thanks to you as well.

Russia, meanwhile, has now officially publicly confirmed that a bomb did indeed bring down that Russian passenger plane in Egypt over Sinai killing all 224 people on board, most of them were Russian citizens. Russia's security chief says the plane broke apart after a two-pound bomb detonated in flight. That's the bomb the size of a small laptop computer.

[13:05:02] This morning, the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, vowed to find those responsible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT, RUSSIA (translator): The murder of our people in Sinai is one of the bloodiest, in terms of the number of victims of such crimes. We won't easily wipe away the tears in our hearts and souls. It will stay with us forever. But that will not prevent us from finding and punishing the perpetrators. We should not apply any time limits. We need to know all the perpetrators by name. We will search for them everywhere, wherever they are hiding. We will find them on any spot on the planet, and we will punish them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance is joining us now live from Moscow. Matthew, Egyptian authorities, until this moment, they say they haven't come to a conclusion about the causing of the downing of this plane. So, what led Russia, finally, to make this determination that this bomb brought down the Metrojet plane?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Russia was originally, of course, reluctant to make this leap into saying it was a terrorist act. But they've -- now at the forefront of that, confirming for the first time that it was, indeed, a bomb. The head of the Russian FSB, the security services, has said that because of traces of explosive that was found on parts of the fuselage that have been gathered and on the luggage of the passengers as well, they have determined that it was an explosive device, a homemade explosive device. You said yourself, it carried two pounds or thereabouts of explosives or at least the equivalent in TNT anyway. And so, a relatively small device but responsible for the death of all 224 people.

The Russian president, as we heard, vowing revenge. And already that retribution has begun with Russia stepping up its air strikes Syria. It's been engaged there for the past couple of months carrying out strikes gain against ISIS and other rebel groups as well. It's now doubling the amount of airstrikes it's been carrying out and bringing new weapons into the fray as well. Long-range strategic bombers being used today for the first time to carry out cruise missile strikes, 34 of them on rebel positions inside Syria over the course of the past 24 hours -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And is it true, as there have been some reports, I don't know if you're hearing this, Matthew, over there in Moscow that the Russians are now formally coordinating these airstrikes, giving the U.S., for example, advanced word where these air strikes are heading?

CHANCE: Yes. Well, I mean, U.S. officials have told CNN earlier that the Russians had coordinated their strikes with them, in the sense of giving them a head's up that these were going to happen so their forces could avoid the cruise missiles as they struck their targets. So, that is indeed happening.

There's also a higher degree of coordination taking place with the French. I mean, the fact that the attacks in Paris have taken place at the same time as this confirmation it was a terrorist act downing the Metrojet plane has brought those two countries closer together. Francois Hollande, the French President, is coming to Moscow he announced today on the 26th of November, later this month.

And the Russian and French Navy, and this is key, have now decided to cooperate and coordinate like allies, in the words of the kremlin in the Mediterranean as they both carry out airstrikes against ISIS inside Syria.

BLITZER: And they're -- and U.S. officials have said to me, Matthew, that they take President Putin at his word when he says that Russia will find those responsible for the downing of this Metrojet plane, for the killing of these 224 people. They will not only punish them but they will go after them, as you say, with vengeance. They will find them. U.S. officials suspect they will also try to kill all of them. We'll see what happens but they're taking Putin at his word. Matthew Chance in Moscow, thanks very much.

Let's go to round out the last three weeks of terror attacks by ISIS. And just to recap, nine people are in custody in connection with another attack claimed by ISIS, two explosions in Beirut, Lebanon in a neighborhood there, killing more than 40 people. Last week's bombings targeting a largely Shia neighborhood in southern Beirut. Lebanese officials say that seven of the suspects arrested are Syrian.

Also, as many as 26 people have died in a series of bombings in Baghdad carried out over the past few days. The largest was a suicide attack that targeted a funeral. That attack also now being blamed directly on ISIS.

Don't miss our special program later tonight, deep inside of ISIS. Who are these people? What do they want? "BLINDSIDED," Fareed Zakaria reports. That airs on CNN later tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

The U.S. Congress has been reluctant to formerly authorize military action against ISIS. After the attacks in Paris, will U.S. lawmakers now finally agree to vote on this? I'll ask Senator Angus King of Maine.

And also coming up, the state of Maryland here in the United States has just become the latest state to say it won't accept Syrian refugees. We're going to have much more on this brewing debate unfolding and the president's description of this refusal to accept Syrian refugees as un-American.

[13:10:12] Also, as we once again go to break, the Eiffel Tower clearly lit up with the colors of the French flag. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The downing of a Russian passenger plane, suicide attacks in Beirut and Baghdad, the coordinated attacks in Paris, all the deadly footprint of ISIS' militant army of terrorists. Joining us now from Capitol Hill is the main independent Senator, Angus King, a key member of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services Committees.

Thanks so much, Senator, for joining us. As you may or may not know, the House Homeland Security Committee chairman, Mike McCaul, says there was clearly a larger conspiracy in Paris that originally may have been fought with as many as 20 people directly involved. What can you tell us about that?

[13:15:07] SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME), SENATE ARMED SERVICES CMTE: Well, I don't think there's much doubt about that. Something like what happened in Paris doesn't happen in a vacuum. There have to be people acquiring weapons, passports, all the kinds of background that goes into this. I'm not going to duck your question, Wolf, but I'm going into a briefing in about 20 minutes with the FBI and other members of the intelligence community and we'll know more this afternoon. But I wouldn't dispute the chairman's statement that there are more than just these eight - eight individuals. I don't think it was hundreds by any means, but the number 20 seems reasonable and consistent with what I've been hearing.

BLITZER: Yes, that's what I've been hearing as well.

John Brennan, the CIA director, yesterday said that he suspects - and he has a lot of information, obviously - that there are other ISIS plots, in his words, in the pipeline or right now, that they are ready to go, presumably including against American targets. Do you have any reason to doubt what he says?

KING: No, I think that's accurate. I mean we know that. Again, I know that there are ISIS people - and, by the way, they're not Syrian refugees or Yemeni refugee, they are people that are already here, and of various backgrounds, that are waiting for the word. And, in fact, we have thwarted a number of those plots here, but this is a - this is the - this is a nightmare scenario, Wolf, where it doesn't - you don't have a large group of people, you don't have a lot of planning, you don't have a lot of communication, so it's hard to get that information. It may be one or two people in Kansas City or St. Louis or San Diego who go out and take weapons to a place where people gather. That's what's chilling about the French attack. It wasn't a government facility, it wasn't military, they were just going after ordinary people. That's what made it so cowardly and brutal in my mind. I - I think even calling them terrorists sometimes is - these people are thugs as far as I'm concerned.

BLITZER: Yes. And, you know, it's not just the so-called original fear of these individuals, these lone individuals or lone wolves or whatever, this would be - presumably this is what the - the CIA director, John Brennan, was referring to, a coordinated -

KING: Right.

BLITZER: Highly coordinated ISIS attack against the U.S. target.

KING: Well, you know, I think we have to assume that and that's why we have to keep our guard up on all fronts and we have to pay attention to these things. One of the more difficult plots to thwart is, you have people in the U.S. who are self-radicalized online or however and then ISIS sends out, and we know they do this, a kind of terrorist APB that says, OK, now's the time to go, and they take up their arms and go after either a hard target like the military recruiting center, or a soft target, like a sporting event. And the problem, Wolf, is, you can never be 100 percent sure in a situation like this and we - we don't want to become a policed state. But we've got to try to find that balance between protecting people's security and also not throwing away the values that make us who we are as Americans. But I think people are legitimately worried and concerned. And I am too. And I think we've got to look at our whole process of who we let into the country and what the vetting process is, just to be sure that it's - it's meeting the needs of this - this relatively new threat.

BLITZER: Are you comfortable letting thousands of Syrian refugees come into the United States?

KING: Well, I think the important thing to say is, Wolf, that if you decide tomorrow and announce yourself as a refugee and you want to go to the United States, it would take 18 months to two years to get here. So there's no immediate entry. There's a long process of investigation and biometric data and fingerprints and all those things. But I do think, even on top of that, given the fact that there's a built in 18-month to two-year period starting now, it gives us time to really dig into whether that process is fully adequate to protect our security and whether we need to have special precautions for people coming from regions of the world that are liable to be harboring terrorists.

I've been saying for a month or so that I - my concern was that people could be infiltrating - terrorists could be infiltrating refugee groups. And we don't know that that's what happened in France, but it appears that may have been the case. So I do think we've got to really take - step back and say, OK, what are the processes that we have in line now, and are they adequate?

BLITZER: In the wake of the Paris attacks, do you think Congress finally should move to vote authorizing legislation to give the president, the Department of Defense authorization to go ahead and launch military action against ISIS in Syria?

[13:19:57] KING: I'm smiling, Wolf, because, to me, that's so obvious. It's something we should have done a year ago. Tim Kaine, myself, and a handful of others have been beating that drum, just saying, look, this - this is Congress' responsibility. But we're not doing it, Wolf. And the problem is, people don't want to take - don't want to take that responsibility. Congress is very good at sitting on the sidelines and criticizing, not very good at saying, OK, this is what we've got to do. But the answer is, yes, of course, there should be a congressional authorization. The president sent a proposed authorization up about six months ago and it hasn't seen the light of day. So the answer is, yes. I think this is our fundamental constitutional responsibility and we should undertake it and get into this debate right away.

BLITZER: Yes, a lot of lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans for that matter, reluctant to raise their hand and vote on this issue because politically it could cause them some problems down the road. At least that's their fear. Thanks so much, Senator King, for joining us.

KING: Last - last time - last time I looked, Wolf, our job is to vote on thing.

BLITZER: Yes.

KING: And - and hard things as well. So that's - that's my view.

BLITZER: You don't just vote - you don't just vote on the easy issues, you vote on the hard issues.

KING: Exactly.

BLITZER: Especially when the lives of men and women in U.S. military uniforms are on the line.

KING: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

KING: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: The debate over how the defeat ISIS is clearly intensifying. President Obama's critics, they're blasting his plans. But could the current U.S. strategy be the best hope for defeating those terrorists? We'll discuss that and a whole lot more right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:52] BLITZER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the Paris terror attacks. The French president, Francois Hollande, says Syria has become the largest factory of terrorism the world has known. ISIS and the Paris attacks underline the urgent need to try to find a solution to the civil war in Syria, but it's complicated. A reminder now of some of the reasons why.

First, the world is divided over the fate of the Syrian president, Bashar al Assad. The U.S., Europe, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, they want him removed. Russians and Iran support his regime. But there is the question, if not Assad, then who? Moderate forces fighting Assad are tiny, sidelined and clearly way underfunded. Kurds have been the most impressive fighting force against ISIS, but they - but they're not trusted by Sunni Arabs or by the government of Turkey, which many say seems more interested in fighting Kurds it considers to be terrorists. The chaos is also fueled by the broader battle between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Both trying to flex their respective muscles in the region.

Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us now live from Irbil in northern Iraq. Also joining us, our global affairs analyst Bobby Ghosh.

Nick, you wrote an article about all of this, and a really important article I must say. Tell us more about why this is so complicated. Nothing in the region where you are right now is simple.

NIC PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a very understandable visceral reaction in western (INAUDIBLE) after the massacre in Paris about what can militarily be done by the west. And the obvious reaction is, well, let's send in ground troops. They've attacked us on the streets. Let's send in our military, finish them off as an organization.

Now, that runs into a, first of all, problem because this is a region that still completely remembers the disaster that was the Iraq War, the inability after the military invasion to administer that country, because, as Colin Powell said, once you break it, you own it.

So they were looking for an obvious ally on the ground and no real one emerges. You can't really ally with the Syrian regime because of the damage they've done to their own civilian population, hundreds of thousands are dead. And they have allies like Hezbollah, who the U.S. considers to be a terrorist organization, and alongside Iran, who's still isn't that friendly with the U.S. too.

Do you look toward the Sunni rebellion against Bashar al Assad? Well, the most - the majority of the military might of that, that has al Qaeda as one of its key groups. A group called - the whole group called The Army of Victory. Now that is doing a lot of damage to the regime in the north, but as I say, al Qaeda are a substantial part of it.

There are moderates, but as you mentioned earlier, they're deeply underfunded. There's the Kurds. Well, they're the natural ally, but they're not going to sit too easily in the Sunni areas of north Syria which they effectively have to move into to clear ISIS out of. They need to have Sunnis in their ranks to make those Sunnis there trust them.

And so you may look to the east, to the Iranian militia, but frankly they're - who are fighting ISIS now, they were fighting the U.S. just years ago when the U.S. had a military presence in Iraq. So there is no obvious natural ally on the ground here. That's why there is an issue and that's I think why where so many of the out of the box solutions you hear at the stump, particularly in the United States during the presidential race, don't really hold water when you put them to the test of the mess that is the battlefield now in Syria, Wolf.

BLITZER: Bobby, you heard President Obama go into great length yesterday, that news conference he had in Turkey, to explain his strategy in dealing with ISIS, first to degrade, then eventually to destroy. Is - does he have a clear strategy to people in the region right now? Do they understand what the U.S. strategy is?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: No, they most certainly do not. And nobody I've spoken to in the region over the past two years has understood that there is a strategy. There's a lot of language but - and it's one thing to say, we're going to degrade ISIS first and then try to destroy them, but we're not seeing enough happen on the ground.

[13:29:45] Nick's point is very well taken, we don't have a reliable ally there. All the traditional rules of conflict are out of the window on this one. Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend. Your friend's friend is not necessarily your friend. So I do, you know, you have to acknowledge that for President Obama, it's a very complicated landscape but that's what - that's what - all the more reason why people need to see some sort of a strategy and some sort of plan that - that they can - they can wrap their heads around.