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Terror in France; Hollande to Address Parliament; France Launches Airstrikes Against ISIS in Syria. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 16, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:31:26] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There have been developments all morning from here in Paris, from Brussels and around the world. Now, new threats just released against the United States. ISIS saying anybody who takes place - who takes a role in these U.S.-led coalition strikes in Syria are also vulnerable to attack themselves. Specifically, the United States. This comes from Reuters and confirmed by CNN. That has, obviously, been added into the calculation. This isn't new for ISIS to threaten the United States, but this is a new threat by ISIS.

Here in Paris we have seen the French doing a lot within and without their borders. Bombing in Syria overnight, specifically on Raqqa, known as the ISIS capital. Here, raids, 168 we are told, rounding up some 104 people who are now on house arrest, 23 in actual detention. Lots of heavy weaponry found, the likes of which were used in the attacks here on Friday in Paris. Also, a rocket launcher found. And an active investigation and police action in Belgium, looking for a believed eighth attacker. Suspicion about an eighth suicide vest still in play, as well. That is a developing situation.

And now this all originates from what happened here on Friday. And imagine being one of the men or women who actually survived that and had to see it in all these different locations around Paris. The big point of excitement was, of course, the stadium in France. France and Germany playing in a friendly match. One of the people who was there was Simon Kuper. He's a journalist for "The Financial Times," but he lives here. You know, this is his home, and he experienced what it was like to be in that stadium. We're going to talk to him. But first, just to recall what it was like that night, here's a listen.

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CUOMO: That was the scene. France and Germany playing a football match and then, all of a sudden, those sounds of explosions that were ringing around the stadium become heard. One, two, three of them.

Simon Kuper, I'm sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but you were there. You're living here in Paris. So it's about your perspective as a journalist and just a human who lived through it. What was it like, that point of recognition, being in the stadium and realizing that there was no simple explosion?

SIMON KUPER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I thought these explosions are too loud to be the kind of smoke bombs or firecrackers you get at football matches. I thought, that sounds like a real bomb. Most of the stadium seemed unaware. Play continued. And I just went searching on the Internet. There was no news for about 20, 30 minutes.

You have to remember, we lived under total uncertainty that night what was happening. It was very hard to understand. And only later did I realized that those suicide bombers were meant to blow themselves up in the stadium, in front of our eyes, and on prime time television. So that was a plot that failed from their point of view.

CUOMO: And as you learned that it wasn't just the stadium, but it was other cafes, restaurants and, of course, what was happening at the concert hall.

KUPER: I live in this neighborhood. This is the neighborhood that was shot up. And I have children at home that night. I was terrified. And it was a time of great confusion. Also, having to think very clearly, making the right decisions for your family is something you try to do. It was only later that you - you get stressed and start to think about what might have happened. At that moment, you go into adrenaline mode. You act and think very quickly. And then later, you have to hold it together. I mean people are talking about Paris being defiant. Paris is defiant. Paris is also confused, and scared and human. This is a place of human beings.

[08:35:01] CUOMO: And, look, we saw it with "Charlie Hebdo." This much more large scale and wide ranging. You, for all the misfortunate, are one of the lucky ones. Not everyone you know made it through. How do you carry that with you and what does it mean about the future here in France?

KUPER: I want to mention the French football writer, (INAUDIBLE), who died in (INAUDIBLE). I mean, like any parent, I thought first of my children and I'm thinking now of my children. And my children live in a neighborhood that, in ten months, has had two major terrorist attacks. "Charlie Hebdo" is around the corner. The (INAUDIBLE) was around the corner. How do you raise children in that kind of situation? I don't know. It's a question I'm asking myself. And we're dealing with it every day.

CUOMO: The French have specific vulnerabilities, geographical, demographical in terms of what you're dealing with, with Muslim populations here. The politicians admit there's a disconnect between French society and this emerging Muslim population here, which is, of course, also vulnerable itself to these Islamic tendencies that infiltrate. The refugees, a new avenue. Do you think this society, because of this, will embrace changes that, to this point, it has not wanted to? We'll see it with the state of emergency vote later today.

KUPER: I mean like in the U.S. after 9/11, the mood of the population is for strong responses, state of emergency, bombing ISIS. So there's a lot of support for those things.

About the Muslims. I mean the French state recon (ph) there's about 2,000 French grown jihadis. That's about one in every 2.5 thousand French Muslims. So these other people, they just want to live a normal life. And this is a very mixed city. The steward (ph) who found the suicide bomber and stopped him entering the stadium was a Muslim named Juha (ph). So this is a city where most of the time we get on pretty well. And we must not confuse these 2,000 jihadis with the 5 million or 6 million people of Muslim origin living in France. There - there is a - a huge gap between those groups.

CUOMO: In the hearts and minds of these people who are following us behind here in the Republican Plaza, there's obviously a lot of embracing and shared concern for going forward. What do you think it will mean when they hear that a state of emergency that was planned for a maximum of 12 days will be three months?

KUPER: People want to be reassured. Rightly or wrongly, people want the president to show strength and even aggression, like was wanted of the American president after 9/11. I'm worried that we'll act hastily like the U.S. did after 9/11, and I hope there will be time to think hard and not act in a moment of high emotion only.

CUOMO: Unlike what happened in the aftermath of 9/11, we know who is doing this and we know where they are. They admit it themselves. Do you think that changes the calculus and that the French will not just dedicate air assets, but also ground assets? There is talk about that politically here. Would it be acceptable?

KUPER: I think we learned two things from 9/11. An invasion of a Middle Eastern country, maybe not such a good idea. And, secondly, go for the people who did it. I mean if the U.S. had just hunted down al Qaeda after 9/11, and pretty soon we did know it was them, there would have been global support and it probably would have been much more efficient. To go and try to remake the Middle East is not something France plans to do now. We've lived through this film before. We've watched this film 14 years ago. And that may save us from some mistakes.

CUOMO: And also not just as a journalist but as a father and someone living here, yes, geopolitics matter. You understand that well. But, for you, it's figuring out, what do you do with your kids and your family. So we wish you well going forward and a safer tomorrow than you had to deal with last week.

KUPER: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, Simon, thank you very much. That's Simon Kuper. He is one of the lucky ones despite all that he had to live through.

And he's not alone. So many here behind us that we meet when we're on and off television, they're trying to figure out, what does this mean about tomorrow? How do they balance their uncertainty with their desire to be uniquely Parisian and live their lives and enjoy themselves? How do they do that? We're going to discuss what life will be like here as it starts to get back to normal, right after the break.

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[08:43:02] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Here in France, people are trying to regain some sense of normalcy on this, the first business day following Friday's terror attack. And here at the Place de la Republique, people are out in droves, as you can see. They are refusing to be terrorized today.

But what does France do now? We turn to our CNN international anchor, Hala Gorani.

Hala, great to have you here. So what - what is happening with France? I mean I know there's this historic address today of Hollande. What does this mean?

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It's the third time since 1848, so historic is the right word to describe it, that a French president addresses a joint session of parliament and the nation. This is the huge test for the president. How do you react in the wake of an attack that killed almost 130 French citizens? That the French presidency is saying was organized abroad in Syria with the help of French citizens, we now know, on six different sites across the capital.

This country is traumatized, Alisyn. I was out on the street for a few hours. Every single conversation with no exception was about this. I kept trying to overhear everything that was being said around me. Everybody was saying, how can it happen? What do you think it is? Who do you think is it? Will they find the other guy? Et cetera. So it is a country that is - it's getting back on its feet. You can see it here behind us. But it is a country that is traumatize and searching for answers.

CUOMO: But it's not just a speech, it's a request he's going to make today.

GORANI: Yes.

CUOMO: And it will be an historic one as well. Tell us about it.

GORANI: Absolutely. He's going to request the extension of special powers, of a state of emergency. This gives the state an authority that it doesn't have during normal times to detain, to conduct surveillance operations. Also, there's going to be a lot of appetite, I believe, on the government level to extend France's military involvement abroad.

The big question is going to be, will they stop at an aerial campaign, the likes of which we've seen already over the last few months, or will they go in deeper? Will they do something similar to what they did in Mali, for instance, when the Islamist's takeover of that country was stopped by French troops?

[08:45:02] There is a change and a shift in public opinion in this country. That is not a country that is, as you know with the 2003 invasion of Iraq, readily jumps on military action in the Middle East. In this particular case, I'm getting the sense it will be different.

CAMEROTA: We've also heard from the leader of the far right party here who, just this hour, is calling for a change in the refugee policy. GORANI: Yes. Marine Le Pen is the leader of the National Front. In

Europe, you've had, over the last several years, far right leaning, anti-immigration parties who have capitalized on fears such as the one that may have materialized in the case of a suicide bomber at the Stade de France that refugees are a national threat. She is going to politically benefit from this. She has said, I am calling on France to close its doors entirely to migrants and refugees and certainly not have them relocated in various parts, villages and towns, she said in the statement by the party, in France. Now put it in context. France has not received, has not allowed in that many refugees compared to Germany and Sweden. But still politically, there's a bit of point scoring going on here.

CUOMO: Also, it's about whether or not the exception becomes the rule. I mean, even with the huge number of potentially radicalized Jihadis that you have here pales in comparison to your Muslims population that's here. But we've hear the politicians also admit what many say here, which is that you have a division. You have the Muslim population and then French society. There hasn't been proper integration. How does that play into this?

GORANI: It is true, although you have to put it also in context. There are 4 million French Muslims. They are born here, have been here for generations. There are sections of that population who are certainly more vulnerable to radicalization. It is a small minority, of course. That small minority, when it decides to organize itself, when it allows itself to be brainwashed, when you have some of these young men, 19, 20, 21 years old, who go to Syria, train militarily, come back to attack their own country, that exists.

But the Muslim community as a whole in this country, even though there are problems with integration, are fundamentally French. And so many of them have come out against in disgust at these attacks. And by the way, if you look at the victims from the Bataclan, many of those names are Arab. Many of them are Muslim. They are, in this case -- in the case of this attack, certainly as much victims as any other French person.

CAMEROTA: Yes. As we have seen, once again, indiscriminate attacks.

GORANI: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: You know, women, men, Muslims, they don't care. Hala Gorani, great to get your perspective. Thanks so much for your help with that.

CUOMO: All right. So we've seen, as Hala was saying, there is a resolve here now in France after what happened on Friday's attacks. They did not waste any time in retaliating against ISIS, as promised. Nearly two dozen airstrikes on targets in Syria. Our military expert is going to tell us, they say it's a good start, but is it too little, too late? We take that up after the break.

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[08:51:22] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: France launching its most intense air assaults on ISIS targets in Syria, including a command center, a training base and recruiting office in the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. The airstrikes coming as a growing number of countries come under attack by ISIS.

Here to take us through it all is CNN military analyst and former member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Cedric Leighton. It's really a pleasure to have you here.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Michaela.

PEREIRA: We need the context. We need the understanding. Let's talk about the bombardment from French fighter jets going on in Raqqa as we speak. Give us context about the focus on Raqqa.

LEIGHTON: So the focus on Raqqa, Michaela, is because that's the de facto capital of ISIS. The reason you strike a target like Raqqa is you want to show them that you will go after their top echelon. Their top echelon is going to be in Raqqa or around Raqqa. At least that's the theory. You go after that because you want to, in essence, decapitate an organization like ISIS so it can't do the kinds of things it's doing.

PEREIRA: ISIS is responding saying it was non-operational, nobody was there, they were abandoned. We're hearing from our sources, though, they were operational sites. Talk about the French strategy going forward. Are these airstrikes going to be enough? We understand the importance of intelligence on the ground. It speaks to the effectiveness of those airstrikes.

LEIGHTON: It does. The reason that what you see here is this fog of war issue, and what you're going to have is you're going to have them say that certain things were not operational when, in fact, they were. What they're trying to do is they're trying to mask what happened to them. So the French strategy is going to be one in which they actually go after this. But it will not be sufficient to do this from the air alone. You need some kind of a ground presence in order to actually go after this type of amorphous target and we're looking at a very amorphous target in this case.

PEREIRA: "New York Times" reporting this morning a new strategy that was planned before the Paris attacks of targeting the trucks that the group is using to smuggle in crude oil. This is a new strategy, again, planned before the Paris attacks. Why would that not have been done before? It seems like an obvious.

LEIGHTON: Well, I think it should have been done before. But what they're doing is, first of all, they're trying to figure out exactly where their lines of supply are. So there may have been an issue where they couldn't find exactly where they were. They also wanted to hit them for maximum effect. So you want to get a concentration of fuel vehicles, and a convoy, where you go after them and say, OK, this is exactly what we're looking for. Then you attack it. And in this particular case, they actually warned the drivers to get out of their trucks before they struck. When they did that, that was showing them, we're going to go after your economic infrastructure, but we don't want to affect your civilians. PEREIRA: Isn't that interesting. OK. We're standing on the map to get

sort of overall context and perspective. We know that ISIS now claiming responsibility for attacks in Egypt, Lebanon, and France. What do you make of ISIS's capability of having these coordinated attacks in a widespread area?

LEIGHTON: Well, they're going global. This is, in essence, the globalization --

PEREIRA: They've threatened that.

LEIGHTON: And now they're doing it for real. The Paris attacks and the threat to attack Washington, that idea is idea very specific to a global strategy that ISIS has. They originally started out being just in the Middle East, being just for their caliphate to that area in the Middle East that they control. They want to go beyond that. They want to go not only into north Africa and the northern Middle East, they want to extend themselves into Europe and then eventually into the United States because what they want to do is they, in essence, want to make the world safe for their brand of Islam. That is what they're trying to do.

PEREIRA: That makes it not safe for anybody else. We look at Egypt when we think about this reign of terror, if you will. Egypt, they're claiming responsibility for the downing of metrojet 9268. You look at Beirut, a suicide bomb there, targeting Shiite Muslims. We know ISIS has claimed responsibility.

[08:55:05] And then we look to Paris and what has happened there. This is a long way from the home region of ISIS, the stronghold. What is that telling you, and how concerning and difficult is that to combat?

LEIGHTON: Well, it's very difficult because ISIS is this very amorphous organization. Even if you go after them in a place like Raqqa, which is a good thing to do, it's still not sufficient because they're going to use their ability to get into Europe, their ability to potentially get into the United States to actually attack these areas and do it with great propagandistic effect. That's what they want to achieve. They want to achieve a major propaganda victory, and they want to do it with a maximum loss of life on our side. That's why you saw what you saw in Paris, these --

PEREIRA: Maximum loss of life.

LEIGHTON: That's the problem.

PEREIRA: Horrifying - Cedric, I hate that you have to be here, but I appreciate your insight and your expertise on this. Thank you so much for joining us here on NEW DAY.

LEIGHTON: Thank you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: CNN's continuing coverage of the Paris terror attack investigation will continue. We have a special edition of "NEWSROOM" with Anderson Cooper. He is live on the ground in Paris. It will begin after a short break.

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