Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

GOP Candidates Face Off in Fourth Debate; Interview with Governor Chris Christie. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 11, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- for your wallet everybody.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. I'm talking about how much my mother loves John Berman. The only person she loves more, veterans, like the rest of us. Thank you to our fighting men and women and your families for the sacrifice and service.

It is Wednesday, November 11th, 8:00 in the east. And we saw something last night you do not see a lot in a political debate - substance, issues. Candidates clashing on real topics like immigration, national security, the minimum wage.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So among the big questions beforehand, would Jeb Bush have a bounce back performance? And how would Ben Carson handle questions about his past? CNN's John Berman is here with some answers. What did you see?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: They all won. Seriously. They all achieved what they wanted to do. They went out with a plan and they executed it. And what we saw were real fault lines on real issues of policy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Fewer candidates on stage? Yes. More policy? Maybe. Less tension? Not a chance.

JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come on, folks, we all know you can't pick them up and ship them back across the border. It's a silly argument. It's not an adult argument. It makes no sense.

BERMAN: John Kasich blasting Donald Trump's build a wall immigration plan. Donald Trump blasting back.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I built an unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars. I don't have to hear from this man. Believe me.

BERMAN: Immigration was a central topic. Jeb Bush worried about the mass deportation message.

BUSH: They are doing high fives in the Clinton campaign right now when they hear this.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz disagreed.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Republicans joined Democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose.

BERMAN: Foreign policy also a flash point between candidates, including a Rand Paul sighting.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that Rand is a committed isolationist. I'm not.

RAND PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How is it conservative to add a $1 trillion expenditure for the federal government that you are not paying for?

BERMAN: The Kentucky senator, not a big factor in previous debates, had a no love lost exchanged with Marco Rubio.

RUBIO: I know the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest military power in the world.

(APPLAUSE)

PAUL: I do not think we are any safer from bankruptcy court.

BERMAN: Jeb Bush had admitted he had to show up big, and he was certainly a bigger presence than before.

BUSH: Thank you Donald for allowing me to speak at the debate. That is really nice of you. I really appreciate that.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: He butted heads with Donald Trump on ISIS.

TRUMP: If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS I am all for it 100 percent.

BUSH: Donald is wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. We're not going to be the world's policemen, but we sure as heck better be the world's leader.

BERMAN: Ben Carson, out front in some polls, continued to seem content to sit back on the debate stage, though hid did reference recent media questions into claims he has made about his past.

BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thank you for not asking what I said in the tenth grade. I appreciate that.

(LAUGHTER)

CARSON: I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about and then putting that out there as truth.

(APPLAUSE)

BERMAN: Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz continue to show their debate stage polish with notable one-liners.

CRUZ: There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the Bible. And not a one of them is as good.

(LAUGHTER)

RUBIO: For the life of me I don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.

BERMAN: And Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump with new proof they will not be friends.

CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He quit talking --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I finish with my time.

TRUMP: Why does she keep interrupting everybody?

BERMAN: There were sparks too in the undercard debate. Just demoted Chris Christie tried to turn the focus to Hillary Clinton a lot.

CHRISTIE: Hillary Clinton --

Secretary Clinton --

Hillary Clinton.

Wait till you see what Hillary Clinton will do to this country and how she will drown us in debt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: So Chris Christie focused on Hillary Clinton. Bobby Jindal on that stage focused a little bit on Chris Christie, saying Christie did the bare minimum as the conservative governor of New Jersey. Jindal said that Christie deserves a participation ribbon and a juice box.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for explaining that punch line to us.

BERMAN: That's good.

CUOMO: Juice? That is good, cauterizing.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Look at the humor this morning.

CAMEROTA: I'm that good. I don't even realize it. Thank you very much, John.

We are joined by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Good morning, governor. How are you feeling? CHRISTIE: I'm feeling great this morning. How are you, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: I'm doing well. What did you think about your performance last night?

[08:05:00] CHRISTIE: Well, listen, I felt like I did what I always do. I come out, I speak my mind. I mean what I say. I say what I mean, and I keep my eye on the wall, which is winning the election next November. I'm not running just to be the Republican nominee. I want to be the president of the United States, and in order to do that I'm going to have to beat Hillary Clinton, and that is exactly what I intend to do.

CAMEROTA: Governor, you of course were relegated to the undercard debate, the first debate, and at the time I'm sure that must have felt like a bit of a demotion, except that now the numbers are in and it seems to have a worked for you. Let me show you something. This is the number of minutes that the candidates on the main stage got. The most went to Ted Cruz. He got 13 minutes and 35 seconds. Then Kasich, 11 minutes 51 seconds, Donald Trump, 11 minutes 19 seconds, Carly Fiorina, 11 minutes. According to a New Jersey radio station, New Jersey 101.5, you got

roughly 14 minutes. You had the most speaking time of any candidate. Maybe you should always be in the undercard debates.

CHRISTIE: Well, Alisyn, as I told you all after that decision was made, I'll debate anyone, anytime, anywhere. And I said at the time I didn't think it would matter, that if I did what I needed to do, which is to communicate my message clearly, and I had the opportunity do it, that I would do just fine. And I think last night is another example of that.

And so we're going to debate any time anybody wants us to because I care deeply about these issues and I know how to communicate them to the American people.

CAMEROTA: Fact checkers as always is the case after a debate, sort of burn the midnight oil checking what the candidates said. And there was one of your comments on the Affordable Care Act that is being questioned. So let me play that exchange for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY JINDAL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the only candidate running that refused to expand Medicaid. I'm the only one that turned down and did what we could to fight Obamacare.

CHRISTIE: Listen, we stopped Obamacare in New Jersey because we refused to participate in the federal exchange.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So the governor, the fact checkers that that is not true. You said you did not stop Obamacare in New Jersey. In fact there are 200 thousand New Jersey residents who have gone through healthcare.gov and signed up for Affordable Care Act. So was that false?

CHRISTIE: No, Alisyn, because we did not participate in a state based exchange. The federal government runs their exchange in New Jersey, which they have every right to do, but the state government, the state of New Jersey is not participating in that exchange. That is what I said and that is the truth. There are other states that have selected to have a state-based exchange that they run and they have ultimately been huge failures.

And so we absolutely said no to Obamacare's desire to have the state government take responsibility for everything that happens in Obamacare but no say over the cost and no say over the management. I said not that and that's how we put a stop to having our state participate in Obamacare. But the federal government is free to participate in any state they want, and that's what they're doing in New Jersey.

CAMEROTA: Right, but to be clear you said we stopped Obamacare in New Jersey, but you didn't stop Obamacare in New Jersey because you can't as a governor stop your residents from signing up on the federal Web site.

CHRISTIE: We stopped -- Alisyn, you would make a really excellent lawyer trying to parse words. Let me be clear again. My responsibility as governor is whether the state participates in Obamacare or it doesn't. And that is what I said last night. We did not participate in Obamacare because we don't. The state does not. I vetoed two bills trying to get us to do that. There is nobody who believes that we are participating in Obamacare as the state government, New Jersey. You know that and I know it. So no, let's move on.

CAMEROTA: Before we move on, one more point on this. You did announce you would also accept the federal mandate for Medicaid for your state. Some governors did not do that, but you did, and since then the Medicaid enrollment in New Jersey has increased 36 percent. So why that choice if you really wanted to stop anything with the federal government and Obamacare?

CHRISTIE: Because we've reformed Medicaid in New Jersey. We've moved to managed care system. We're saving money, and it's what was best for the people of New Jersey. Here is what people need to know about me. I'm not going to make these decisions based upon the politics. A state based exchange was bad for the people of New Jersey and bad for the state government. Medicaid when we've been able to reform it has been better and it was better for the people of the state of New Jersey. I'm not going to make my decisions based upon politics. I'm going to make it based upon policy. And that is why I made the decision I did. It's what was best for the people of New Jersey. And that the way I'll always make my decisions and the way I'll make them as president of the United States.

CAMEROTA: Let me show you what Hillary Clinton has said about this and the Affordable Care Act. She tweeted last night, "Note to candidates who boast they would repeal Obamacare -- healthcare should be a right, not a just a privilege for those who can afford it. Republicans who want to repeal the ACA should try telling that to the 18 million people who have healthcare coverage because of it." So governor, what do you say to the 18 million people who would then lose their healthcare if you repealed it?

[08:10:00] CHRISTIE: What I say to the 330 million people of America is grab on to your wallet, because Hillary Clinton's next move is going to be to have universal healthcare, a single payer system with the government taking over the whole healthcare system. That is what she and her socialist friend Bernie Sanders are going to advocate for, and I'm going to be there to stop it.

The fact is she would go to a state-based market solution. That's what would be best for healthcare, because, remember something, the big lie in the first time was if you like your doctor, you can keep him. If you like your health plan you can keep it. And premiums will go down. Premiums have gone up. People have lost the healthy plans they liked, and they don't get to keep their doctor.

So I don't think we should be listening to the Hillary Clinton or anybody from the Obama administration about keeping promises because they haven't kept their promises. They lied to American people for political reasons and to expand the size of government. And when I get in we will go to a state-based solution to let the people choose what they want to do with their healthcare, not have big brother government run by Hillary Clinton making the choices of winners and losers in this country in the healthcare system.

And I want to ask her this. If it is such a great deal, single payer and having the government run healthcare, then why do people from Canada leave Canada and come down here to get their healthcare? She can't answer that question, but I'll make sure she answers it when I'm on the stage with her next September.

CAMEROTA: Governor, I assume that you watched the main stage debate. So what did you think and how do you think the campaign changes moving forward now as a result of last night?

CHRISTIE: I don't think the campaign changes much as a result last night. I think what changes the campaign is how you are working on the ground. That is why when I'm done with my interview with you and Chris we're going to head to Iowa and get back to work through the weekend in Iowa and then go back next week to New Hampshire. National polls and national debates are not what are going to decide this race. It is going to be your work on the ground in states like Iowa and New Hampshire. This is where I'm going to go back to work. That is where my message is being heard. And that is where I'm going to do very well in both the caucus and in the primary, first in the nation, on February 9th.

CAMEROTA: Governor Chris Christie, thanks so much for taking time for NEW DAY.

CHRISTIE: Happy to be back.

CAMEROTA: Let's get it over to Michaela. MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump is already in New

Hampshire. He is there for a political rite of passage, hosting a politics and eggs event. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Manchester, and I'm guessing don't expect any starbuck's at the event this morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY: Good morning, Michaela. I do not see any Starbuck's here. But I can tell you the smell of bacon is filling the room here, and it smells pretty good. This is a traditional New Hampshire event, but it is usually a smaller event. You can see behind me here more than 640 people have registered to come to this breakfast, politics and eggs, to hear Donald Trump speak. Of course he believes he is on something of a victory lap after last night's debate. He believes he had one of the strongest performances, and he certainly took on a more serious tone throughout a lot of that debate.

But the key question here as he reaches out to these New Hampshire voters, will that stick or is he going to go back to pre- debate Donald Trump taking on Ben Carson and the others? We're about to find out in just a few moments as he gets under way and starting speaking here.

But what Governor Christie was saying, he'll in in Iowa and then New Hampshire. Donald Trump is in New Hampshire and then going to Iowa. So we're about to see a lot of crisscrossing of these candidates here as they have more than one month to the next debate on CNN on December 15th. Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, we'll be interested to hear what comes out of that politics and eggs event today. Jeff, enjoy yourself and see if you can get a side of crispy bacon for yourself.

All right, severe weather is set to batter the nation's midsection later today. Parts of Illinois, Missouri, and Iowa are expected to bear the brunt of it. The storm packing torrential rain and damaging winds with a threat of tornadoes in some places. Officials are warning people to pay attention to the weather and do take cover if need.

An investigation is under way into why a small plane crashed into an Ohio apartment complex sparking this massive fire. Authorities say the pilot was attempting to land at Akron International Airport when he hit power lines and then crashed. There are reports that at least nine people on the plane died. Miraculously no one on the ground was injured.

On this Veterans Day, parades and ceremonies across the nation on honoring our nation's service members. We're showing you a live look at Arlington National Cemetery where later this morning President Obama will take part in the traditional laying of the wreath at the tomb of the unknowns. During a speech there he'll push Congress for broad legislation and reforms to benefit veterans.

The Republicans uniting around one common goal last night at the debate -- defeat Hillary Clinton. Did that message work? We are going to ask one of the architects of President Obama's White House campaign next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:25] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton was a bit of a pinata last night. With that said, they decided to trade ideas more than barbs. Fair statement, fair statement.

So, good in theory, but how about in politics?

Joining us now is CNN political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama, the Axe -- David Axelrod.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CUOMO: Good to have you with us.

AXELROD: Good to be here.

CUOMO: So fair statement. They certainly got into ideas more than we have heard in the recent past at least. What did that provide in terms of a plus/minus for you?

AXELROD: Well, I guess in crass way, ideas maybe less good TV at times. I'm sure they tried to have a decorous debate than the last affair with CNBC, and the result was it very issue-oriented.

Look, I don't think this debate as much as the last debate made much of a difference. I don't think it changed much. But what was interesting about it was I think there were portents of things to come. Rand Paul's attack on Marco Rubio over his proposed child care tax credit. Ted Cruz's notion that if we imitate Democratic proposals for amnesty, we're going to lose on immigration.

I think you are beginning to see a divide in the debate that is going to define the rest of the campaign. Is the Republican Party going to be a hard-right party or are the governing conservatives going to prevail? And that's going to be the question resolved over the next few months.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It wasn't just a dry debate. There were heated exchanges between the candidates, including one between Rand Paul and Marco Rubio about military spending, and whether or not that truly is a conservative value.

[08:20:07] Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do want to rebuild the American military.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How is it conservative?

RUBIO: I know that Rand is a committed isolationist. I'm not. I believe the world is a stronger and a better place, when the United States is the strongest military power in the world.

PAUL: Yes, but, Marco! Marco! How is it conservative, how is it conservative to add a trillion-dollar expenditure for the federal government that you're not paying for?

RUBIO: Because --

PAUL: How is it conservative?

RUBIO: -- are you talking about the military, Rand?

PAUL: How is it conservative to add a trillion dollars in military expenditures? You can not be a conservative if you're going to keep promoting new programs that you're not going to pay for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was an interesting moment, David. Who do you think got the upper hand?

AXELROD: Well, you know, I think Rand Paul made a mistake because he had a two part attack. The first was a trillion dollars for child care tax credits which probably doesn't play well with the Republican base. The second was on military spending which gave Rubio the opportunity to choose the one he wanted to respond to and he responded to that and it allowed him to give his tough on defense military spending answer, which I think resonates more with the Republican base. He got a big hand for his answer.

But I actually think the first part of the question is going to be a vulnerability for him in the primaries going forward because Republicans are less receptive to the notion of giving tax credits to the poor and to the working poor. So, you know, I think Rand Paul made a mistake by loading up his question. And I think Rubio actually came out on top on the answer.

CUOMO: You always want to keep your attacks tight when you are in one of those debates. You also never want to lose contact with the camera which is something that Rand Paul was doing. You have to remember you are trying to connect with people.

CAMEROTA: He turns to face the opponent.

CUOMO: I get it. But we want to see them looking at us when you are home. That is the theory of it.

Now, Hillary Clinton, you are talking about what's going to play out later. She certainly got her due last night as a kind of specter of what happens if we screw this up on the GOP side.

Chris Christie, I would submit, did it most eloquently and heavily last night. Here is how.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wait until you see what Hillary Clinton will do to this country and how she will drown us in debt. She is the real adversary tonight.

Hillary Clinton is running so far to the left to try to catch to her socialist opponent Bernie Sanders, it's hard to even see her anymore.

Secretary Clinton says there's no crisis at the V.A., that sends a long and hard message she doesn't get and she doesn't respect their service.

I saw the most disgraceful thing I've seen this entire campaign a few weeks ago. Hillary Clinton was asked, the enemy she's most proud of, and she said Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He did miss that she laughed when someone suggested choking Carly Fiorina yesterday when she was in New Hampshire.

But otherwise he seemed to check all the boxes of what will certainly be a list of motivations for the GOP. What did you see in it?

AXELROD: You know, it's interesting. He did that consistently in the undercard debate. The only person who consistently went after Hillary Clinton in the other debate was Jeb Bush. And I think it's because he is more comfortable attacking her than he is facing off with his fellow Republicans.

So, she -- I thought in the second debate, she got off lightly. And she's going to come in for greater criticism later. But, you know, they are beginning to focus on each other now. That is pretty clear to me. They are getting down to the short straws here. And they are beginning to try and draw distinctions among themselves.

To me on the Republican side, the interesting question is, do Cruz and Dr. Carson continue -- not Cruz. Do Trump and Carson continue to get somewhere near half the vote? Is the Republican Party so antiestablishment that they want the nonpoliticians? Or do they fade and do Rubio and Cruz rise?

And I think those are the two scenarios we're looking at here. One or the other.

CAMEROTA: That is interesting. So do you think that anything shifted last night because of the undercard? I mean, did Christie sort of leapfrog back into the main stage? Or do you think anybody changed on the main stage going forward?

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: This is an untested proposition. We've seen people rise from the under card to the big debate. We've never seen anybody go from the big to the little and back to the big debate. I don't know if he's played himself back on to the main stage.

I thought he had a very good debate performance last time and he ended up getting demoted. So, I don't know how much doing well in this undercard will benefit him. I don't know how many people actually watched that debate. It could have been the greatest performance no one ever saw.

CUOMO: Hmm, that's --

CAMEROTA: Poignant.

CUOMO: He was on this morning. He believes any exposure is going to be good for him. I think Axe made a good point. When they are going to be focusing on each other you are going to see distinctions that so far have been invisible.

CAMEROTA: Oh, we're seeing that -- I mean, with immigration, foreign policy, everything.

[08:25:02] CUOMO: Because they're going to have to decide who they are as a party as well and that's going to wind up shaping who their candidate.

Mr. Axelrod, thank you very much.

AXELROD: OK, guys, good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. You too.

CUOMO: What do you think? Do you agree with Mr. Axelrod or not? If not, tweet using #NewDayCNN or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay.

I thought --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: But I didn't.

PEREIRA: I love the mumbling between you two. So fascinating.

CUOMO: Well, no else had heard that. Do you hear that?

PEREIRA: I hear it all.

CUOMO: Oh, no.

PEREIRA: Trust me I do.

So, who comes out the winner from the latest debate? We're going discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right. Here we go. The five things to know for your NEW DAY on this Wednesday.

At number one, Republican candidates putting personal attacks aside, focusing mostly on the issues in their latest debate. A number of tense exchanges focused on immigration, national security and the minimum wage.

The FBI foiling an alleged plot by white supremacist to attack black churches and Jewish synagogues. Officials say these two suspects now in custody were trying to ignite a race war.

Authorities trying to work out what caused a small plane to crash into an Ohio apartment complex. There are reports at least nine people on board the plane died. No one on the ground was injured.

Egyptian officials confirming that the NTSB will join the investigation of MetroJet Flight 9268.