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Rubio, Cruz Shine on GOP Debate Stage; GOP Candidates Battle on Economic Policies; Best Jeb Bush Debate Performance Yet?; U.S., U.K. Confident Plane Downed by Bomb; Carson Courts Evangelicals at Liberty University; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 11, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for joining me. Today is Veterans Day. And one hour from now, President Obama will visit the Tomb of the Unknowns, taking part in the traditional wreath-laying ceremony there to honor those who have served our country. He'll also give a speech, pushing Congress for broad new legislation and reforms to benefit veterans.

All right. On to politics and the big debate last night. Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz stand out and Donald Trump scales back. The candidates throwing plenty of punches on policy during last night's debate. One of the biggest targets, Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton has said that Barack Obama's policies get an A. Really? One in 10 people right now aren't working or have given up all together as you said. That's not an A.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When the fall comes and we run against Hillary, it will be a disaster if she got elected.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton won't tell you that that's the thing that's really hurting the middle class.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And around the world every day brings news of a new humiliation for America. Many the direct -- direct consequence of decisions made when Hillary Clinton was the secretary of state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Clinton clearly unfazed by it all, tweeting, quote, "Times Republicans offered helpful ideas for middle class? Zero. Times Republicans attacked Hillary, we lost count." Hashtag GOP debate.

And even though there were fewer candidates on stage this time around, there were still plenty of fireworks when it came to hot button issues like immigration and national security.

Joining me now to talk about all of this, CNN political guru, John Berman. Good morning. JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR, EARLY START: Thank you so much. You

know, after every debate, every campaign always says we won, we won. They say that no matter what. I think this morning, though, each campaign thinks it actually achieved what it wanted to, drawing distinctions on key issues, fault lines on issues like immigration and foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): Fewer candidates on stage? Yes. More policy? Maybe. Less tension? Not a chance.

KASICH: Come on, folks. We all know you can't pick them up and ship them across, back across the border. It's a silly argument. It's not an adult argument. It makes no sense.

BERMAN: John Kasich blasting Donald Trump's build-a-wall immigration plan. Donald Trump blasting back.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me just tell you, I built an unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars, I don't have to hear from this man, believe me.

BERMAN: Immigration was a central topic. Jeb Bush worried about a mass deportation message.

BUSH: They're doing high fives in the Clinton campaign right now when they hear this.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz disagreed.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Republicans join Democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose.

BERMAN: Foreign policy also a flash point between candidates, including a Rand Paul sighting.

RUBIO: I know that Rand is a committed isolationalist. I'm not.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How is it conservative to add a trillion-dollar expenditure for the federal government, which you don't pay for?

BERMAN: The Kentucky senator, not a big factor in previous debates, had a no love lost exchange with Marco Rubio.

RUBIO: I know that the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest military power in the world.

PAUL: I do not think we are any safer from bankruptcy court.

BERMAN: Jeb Bush had admitted he had to show up big, and he was certainly a bigger presence than before.

BUSH: Thank you, Donald, for allowing me to speak at the debate. That's really nice of you. I really appreciate that. BERMAN: He butted heads with Donald Trump on ISIS.

TRUMP: If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it 100 percent.

BUSH: Donald is wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. We're not going to be the world's policeman, but we sure as heck better be the world's leader.

BERMAN: Ben Carson, out front in some polls, continued to seem content to sit back on the debate stage, though he did reference recent media questions in the claims he has made about his past.

CARSON: Thank you for not asking me what I said in the tenth grade. I appreciate that.

(LAUGHTER)

I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about and then putting that out there as truth.

BERMAN: Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz continued to show their debate stage polish with notable one-liners.

CRUZ: There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the bible. And not a one of them is as good.

RUBIO: For the life of me, I don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.

BERMAN: And Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump with new proof they will not be friends.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He quit talking when it was time to quit talking.

TRUMP: Can I finish with my time? Why does she keep interrupting everybody? Come on, terrible.

BERMAN: There were sparks, too, in the undercard debate, just-demoted Chris Christie tried to turn the focus to Hillary Clinton a lot.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton, and Secretary Clinton. Hillary Clinton. Wait until you see what Hillary Clinton will do to this country and how she will drown us in debt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[10:05:01] BERMAN: All right. Just in case you were wondering how Donald Trump thought he did last night, let me give you a dramatic reading of his most recent tweet. He said, "Loved doing the debate. Won Drudge and all online polls. Amazing evening. Moderators did an outstanding job."

COSTELLO: Well, Ben Carson's person just told me that everybody won the debate.

BERMAN: It's just like, you know, 8-year-old soccer. They all get a trophy.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: I'm sure the Democrats will do exactly the same thing, too.

John Berman, many thanks to you.

OK. So we can all agree on one thing. There were no gotcha questions. The candidates thought that was awesome, although Donald Trump used the adjective "elegant." So did a more elegant debate mean more substance? At times, yes. But the substance didn't come from challenging questions from the moderators, but from Ohio Governor John Kasich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASICH: You know what the answer really is? If they've been law abiding, they pay a penalty, they get to stay. We protect the wall. Anybody else comes over, they go back. But for the 11 million people, come on, folks. We all know you can't pick them up and ship them across -- back across the border. It's a silly argument. It's not an adult argument.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash and chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

Welcome to you both.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: So, Dana, question for you. You were there. Did voters walk away with answers?

BASH: More than I think in the past -- certainly the cumulative effect of all of these debates is probably the better way to put it. That if they're looking for answers particularly on economic policy, they saw a pretty clear divide on taxes, for example. And on immigration, as you just heard from John Kasich. But, you know, I think, of course, a debate is no matter how substantive the tone and tenor of it is, it is still about theater. And a lot of these candidates gave very sort of meaty responses, but they also wanted to have their moments. And so it's a combination of those things. No question about it.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about a moment.

Christine, the candidates did talk about the economy. Here's Ben Carson's moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: Every time we raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Christine, is that true?

ROMANS: Well, you know, in 1997, the unemployment rate was actually falling as they were raising wages. In fact, they raised the minimum wage and the number of unemployed people fell for months and months and months. There are a bunch of years you can go back to, in the '60s and a few in the '70s, when the minimum wage was rising, and you had fewer people out of work. So over the course of history, not exactly true.

I will say, though, there's a lot of debate now about raising it to $15 an hour, in some places even higher. And there are economists who are very briskly arguing whether that could improve the poverty rate, but mean less job creation. Not necessarily throwing people out of work but less job creation. So it is still a very, very big debate.

I'll tell you, there are two parties here, and they have very different views on this. You've got Democrats who want to raise the minimum wage. The president wants to raise the minimum wage. Even -- we just heard from the New York governor for state workers. He wants to raise it to $15 an hour. Republicans say no.

COSTELLO: All right. So, Dana, not one candidate, by the way, is for raising the minimum wage. But all agree there is a huge wage gap that needs to be taken care of. Donald Trump suggested we kill Obama's big trade deal because it allows China to import cheap goods. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: TPP is a horrible deal. It is a deal that is going to lead to nothing but trouble. It's a deal that was designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of everyone.

PAUL: Hey, Gerard, you know, we might want to point out China's not part of this deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. True. That's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So, Dana, Rand Paul is actually right. China is not part of that deal. So what does that say about Trump's answer?

BASH: You know, it's very hard to tell from the way Donald Trump answered that question, in the follow-up as well, when the moderators, I might add, were trying to go to commercial break. Whether or not he gets that because if you listen to him, he said China wants to come in through the back door. So, you know, because there was no chance to follow up, we're not entirely clear. It very well could be that A, Rand Paul was right that he -- you know,

he kind of fact-checked him right there and then. But it also very well could be that Donald Trump knows that China's not part of it. And the point he was trying to make is that China can take advantage of this trade deal like he believes they do of a whole host of other economic policies by this country and others and that that's exactly what's going to happen down the road because of this trade deal.

COSTELLO: All right. So one of the best lines came from Marco Rubio last night, Christine. He said the problem is a lack of vocational schools. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:10:04] RUBIO: Make higher education faster and easier to access. Especially vocational training. For the life of me, I don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So, Christine, is Rubio right?

ROMANS: Well, we do need more welders and we do to need more focus on vocational training, no question, Carol. But welders do not make more than philosophers. When you scrub the statistics, you can see this is medium pay for a welder, $37,000. Philosophy professors, $63,000. So not all philosophy majors go on to become philosophy -- philosophy professors or philosophers.

So just looking at philosophy majors, you could see they also make more money than welders. It turns out philosophy majors, Carol and Dana, tend to go to things like finance. They go on to graduate school for other things. They go into business. They go into communications. They're not necessarily just philosophers.

COSTELLO: But Rubio's underlying premise was right.

ROMANS: Yes. It was right.

COSTELLO: We do -- we are in need of skilled workers desperately in this country.

ROMANS: Right. And you can't --

COSTELLO: And there are jobs empty waiting to be filled by these people.

ROMANS: That's right. And we need skilled jobs -- skilled manufacturing jobs, skilled working with your hands jobs, no question. Welders, plumbers, all of those are ladder jobs that you can start and then you can become a business owner. And so I think that's what he's talking about. A very valid point. But the statistics, though, not true.

COSTELLO: OK. Dana Bash, Christine Romans, thanks to both of you. It was a polished performance at the debate for Jeb Bush. And while

many agree he delivered his best performance yet, he may have been overshadowed by some of his rivals, like Senators Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. Today Bush is back on the campaign trail in Iowa where he's meeting with veterans right now. These are live pictures out of Johnston, Iowa. He'll soon be serving them coffee. He's talking to them right now.

Let's bring in CNN's Athena Jones. She's there as well. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. First, some news off the top. Former U.S. senator and former presidential candidate Bob Dole is endorsing Jeb Bush this morning. He's calling him the most qualified candidate, the one with the proven leadership skills and executive experience to fix the problems facing the country.

This is, of course, coming on Veterans Day. Bob Dole himself is a World War II veteran. And he'll be serving as Bush's national veterans chairman. But when it comes to the debate, I've spoken to quite a few satisfied Bush campaign staffers and supporters, both this morning at the event here outside Des Moines and last night at a watch party. They said that they feel that this was Bush's strong performance, perhaps his strongest performance yet in the debate. He had some good moments, some great lines.

His campaign has put together a highlight reel of him hitting Hillary Clinton and also arguing that the U.S. should be a leader in the world and in the fight against ISIS. But the folks I spoke to last night said, look, you know, he's clearly improved. He didn't have any significant stumbles, didn't try and fail to land a punch against any particular candidate as he did in the previous debate.

One aide I spoke to did say he still has some room to improve when it comes to being comfortable. Take a listen to a joke Bush tried to make last night. Go ahead and play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: This vast overreach has created a huge problem for our country, and Hillary Clinton wants to double down on that. I was in Washington, Iowa, about three months ago talking about how bad Washington, D.C., is. It was -- you get kind of the -- anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So there you see he begins to try to make a joke comparing folks here in Iowa to Washington, D.C., and he kind of gave up midsentence. And so one of his aides acknowledged, you know, he has some room to grow when it comes to getting more comfortable, but over all people are satisfied. Carol?

COSTELLO: Athena Jones reporting live from Johnson, Iowa, this morning. Thank you. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, U.S. investigators are about to play a

much larger role looking into that crash of that Russian airliner. What do they say about the bomb that was planted on board that plane? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:18:28] COSTELLO: Officials confirmed that U.S. investigators could soon look at physical evidence from that Russian jet crash. The NTSB has received word that each has accepted its offer to assist in the probe. In the meantime, Egyptian authorities revealing that they investigated everyone involved with the aircraft and took control of all cameras and sensors at the airport before announcing the plane had crashed.

All of this as U.S. officials say that jihadists most likely planted a bomb with a timer on board that plane.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more on this angle. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Once the National Transportation Safety Board investigators get to Egypt, this may now begin to open the door for the U.S. to see some real evidence on the ground about what happened and begin to develop more than a working theory about what brought down the plane.

Right now they are at the working theory stage. And several officials we've talked to said based on what they have seen, some of the intercepts, some of the video and photos, the heat flash that the U.S. satellite registered at the time of the explosion on the plane, all of that is leading them to a working theory indeed that it is most likely a bomb.

That's pretty much where the administration is at the moment, barring additional information or intelligence about this, and that could always happen. They do believe most likely a timer was placed on board so that it would not detonate. It would be sure not to detonate until it was in midair, a timer of perhaps an hour or more.

[10:20:02] And what could have caused such a dynamic explosion? Officials we're talking to say they're looking at the notion that it is C-4 military-grade explosive or something like that, plastic explosive, small amount, very powerful. It can be molded. It can be easily hidden. Most likely they believe this is what the bomber used.

Now who is the bomber, of course, remains the key question. Right now based on the intelligence they have, U.S. officials saying ISIS in Sinai, but they don't think -- they have no evidence it was ordered by ISIS leadership back in Syria. That at the moment they think it is self-contained to Sinai, but look, U.S. officials want to get a direct look at what evidence there is. They consider that crucial to finding the perpetrator and to ensuring aviation safety -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon, thank you. Let's talk more about this with Anthony May. He's a retired ATF

explosives enforcement officer.

Welcome, Anthony.

ANTHONY MAY, RETIRED ATF EXPLOSIVES ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So supposedly this bomber is still alive and out there somewhere. Is it possible to find him? Because, first of all, don't they have to find evidence on the ground? And how difficult will that be?

MAY: Well, of course, they'll eventually find him if the evidence is there, the physical evidence is there. But it's going to take some time. You know, Pan Am Flight 103, it took at least three years before a definitive answer came from that investigation. And then several years later before any individual was arrested and put in jail. So it will happen. It's just going to take some time following investigative leads. But right now the early stage is a forensic evaluation of the wreckage needs to be completed.

COSTELLO: And how exactly will they do that? Will they reassemble the plane as they usually do?

MAY: Well, that's what is typically done. And that's what we did in TWA 800. As the parts were brought up from the ocean floor, it was brought to a warehouse where we basically put that aircraft back together, looking for the characteristic signs of an explosion. I'm assuming that the Egyptians will do the same thing. And since NTSB is now getting involved, that they may be able to prod them in that direction.

COSTELLO: So once they get that done, whenever that happens, what will they be looking for specifically to tell them that a bomb did indeed blow this plane apart?

MAY: Well, they'll be looking for different characteristics of an explosion on the fuselage of the aircraft, anything that's unusual to wreckage. Now keeping in mind that as this aircraft falls out of the sky, there's going to be mechanical damage. However, a trained investigator will be able to sort out that, and then the most -- the crucial point is going to be the ability to do a forensic analysis through doing swabs, looking for trace evidence of explosive residue.

COSTELLO: And they could find trace evidence of explosive residue on the pieces of the plane that they're collecting now, right?

MAY: Well, they could, yes. And they should be preserving it for that type of examination.

COSTELLO: As the investigation goes on, how do you think they'll be -- I mean, I'm just wondering, I know they had chatter that terrorists were talking about planting a bomb on board this plane. I don't know what the chatter was specifically. I'm just telling you they had chatter indicated that someone had planted a bomb on that plane. How likely is it they will easily find this person because they -- that chatter exists?

MAY: Well, it is possible. Keep in mind now, in the early stages of this investigation, there's actually two prongs happening at the same time. We have the intelligence and information gathering, which has been occurring since day one. The issue of the satellite flash that was recorded, the black box information, that there was an event that occurred, a single event that shut everything down, interviews at the airport.

That information collection and gathering is already occurring. And at the same time on the ground, the physical evidence is being worked. At some point in time these two different aspects will be brought together to put together a complete synopsis of what happened, and it's from that that an investigative lead of a possible suspect using the chatter could be developed.

COSTELLO: All right. Anthony May, thanks for your insight.

MAY: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, live pictures from Liberty University. Ben Carson moments away from addressing the students there. We'll take you live to Lynchburg next.

[10:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Ben Carson back on the campaign trail after last night's debate. You're going to be looking at it. There they are. You're looking at live pictures from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, where Carson will be speaking this morning. Lines stretch around the block hours before the doors opened. Due to heightened security for the Republican contender, the Secret Service making its first appearance as part of Carson's security detail.

Suzanne Malveaux is in Lynchburg, Virginia, with more. Good morning, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, it's expected about 12,000 students are going to be in attendance. This is called a convocation. This is what happens at Liberty University, this evangelical college that these students are actually required to attend. And what we saw this morning that was different because of the Social Security (SIC) detail is that the students had to be here two hours prior to the event.

We heard more than a couple students grumbling about getting up a little bit earlier than usual to do that, but that was because they had to go through the mag (ph), they have to get their bags checked. This is the first day that Dr. Carson has this kind of protection and his aides say --

(END)