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Proposal Puts U.S. Forces Closer to Combat Zones; U.S. Navy Destroyer Sails by Chinese-Built Island; Republican Leaders & White House Reach Budget Deal; Poll: Carson Leads Trump by Double Digits in Iowa; Violent Classroom Arrest Sparks Outrage. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 27, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:09] BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Expect them to get grilled about all of this. By all accounts, no decisions have been made. It will be up to President Obama to decide whether he wants to take the military to this next step -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Barbara, please keep us posted as you talk to your sources there.

Meanwhile, the U.S. leveling a potential challenge to China in the contested waters of the South China Sea. An American destroyer passing within 12 nautical mire -- miles of those artificial islands that are built by China. Official in Beijing calling the maneuver, quote, "illegal."

CNN's chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is live for us in Washington.

What do we know, Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, the U.S. would like to make these trips routine to demonstrate that in their view, these are not Chinese waters; these are international waters. Those man-made islands are not territory; they are illegal. But they're seen as anything by routine by China, as the equivalent of sailing with a Chinese naval ship within 12 miles of New York City, from their point of view. And you had an angry reaction today.

This is the second time this year the U.S. has delivered a message like this. You may remember in May when you were in a spy plane. Those pictures you're seeing right now are from that trip over those islands to demonstrate from the U.S. perspective that the air space over those islands is international, as well.

And I'll tell you, the bridge of that U.S. Navy warship is likely to have gotten a warning like we got in the cockpit of that U.S. spy plane. Listen to what we heard then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foreign military aircraft, this is Chinese navy. You are approaching our military alert zone. Leave immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Chinese navy. This is the Chinese navy. Please go away quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That very much demonstration of how China sees these islands as their own.

And I'll tell you today, I've seen a lot of messages from the Chinese foreign ministry from Beijing, usually parsing words, but their reaction today did not parse words. Here's what the Chinese foreign ministry had to say in reaction to this U.S. Navy ship sailing within those 12 miles.

It says, "If relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing, it may force China to draw the conclusion we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self- fulfilling prophesy."

China there saying, in effect, they may have to militarize these islands more in response to the U.S. action. Alisyn, it's a real serious disagreement and one that clearly that President Obama and President Xi could not reach agreement in during their summit meeting just a couple of weeks ago here in Washington.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, White House and congressional budget negotiators striking a tentative two-year budget deal that would stave off a government shutdown. CNN's Michelle Kosinski live at the White House with the details for us. Big question: how will it be perceived?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. It's the budget.

But lest you think this is a perfect time to go grab a cup of coffee or take a nap, this is made all the more dramatic by the fact that the U.S. is on track to default on its debt in a matter of days. Then a couple of weeks later, the government could shut down again when funding runs out.

But suddenly along comes, yes, a compromise. In Washington. In Congress. You know, on the one hand, Republicans don't want to raise the debt limit or fund what the government has already spent, unless there are some cuts elsewhere to offset that spending.

And then you have Democrats in the White House who don't want to cut certain things, who don't want to keep America at those strict sequester spending limits.

So here's what we came up with. It's a two-year plan. It does raise the debt limit. It does raise caps on spending for defense and domestic programs, but it offsets them with things like selling some of the strategic petroleum reserves. Some changes to Social Security and Medicare. And overall, the sequester limits do stay in effect for ten years.

So not everybody loves this, but it is a compromise, and it's expected to be voted on very soon.

Back to you guys.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Michelle Kosinski, thank you very much.

So Ben Carson now has a double-digit lead over Donald Trump in Iowa. Here are the numbers from the latest poll, Monmouth University. Carson 32 percent to Trump's 18. They've basically swapped positions.

What is fueling this surge, and will Carson eventually have to take the gloves and off and start fighting back against Trump? He says no.

Let's bring in Armstrong Williams. He's Ben Carson's business manager, close friend and friend of show.

Mr. Armstrong, good to have you here. Another number that is very important, before the haters take bait, they will say, well, this is just evangelical. Dr. Ben Carson, you know, he's known as a faith man, but look at this number. Non-evangelicals. Moderate voters, take a look at that number. Put the poll up. There it is. This is among non-evangelical Iowa Republicans, OK? There are your numbers.

Now, you, of course, are not surprised by the doctor's reach beyond those who are evangelical, but how would you explain it?

[07:05:00] ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BUSINESS MANAGER FOR DR. BEN CARSON: Well, first, good morning, and thank you again for having me.

Listen, Chris, it's simple: Dr. Carson stays on message. Dr. Carson has a calming effect when he talks to people. He explains in great detail his policies when he's not on the debate stage. He connects with voter, that connect with his personal story. His temperament is unmatched. His discipline.

And the fact is, he's very respectful. Dr. Carson does not go out and when he finds himself behind in the polls, when he's being criticized in the media or being challenged, he does not pitch adult tantrums. He doesn't get very personal, as if it's his job to always lead.

I think what you can really -- what you can really learn about a person's character is when they're not at the top. When they're not in first place, what they become. And what Dr. Carson has realized is that this is a roller coaster. It's up and down. Mr. Trump may be up this week; Dr. Carson may be down next week. These polls change.

And you also don't underestimate the Bushes, the Rubios, the Cruz and others that give their time and their resources and their commitment to this country and try to make it better. You value them, you empower them, you uplift them. You don't divide the Republican Party because of personal attacks. It's just not the American way.

Mr. Trump has all these capabilities. It's an incredible American success story. But unfortunately, he just doesn't have the discipline to show respect, to show mutual administration for someone else's accomplishment. It's sometimes as if he's the only person that should be running. I hate to be so candid about it, but this guy is so gifted. He has so

much going for him, but you know, the problem is his temperament. He lashes out and people see it as a tantrum by an adult. And Americans are becoming turned off with it, and Dr. Carson continues to feel, he continues to grow. And he would never get in the mud pit with Mr. Trump. It's just not his style. Because he's so busy focusing on his message.

CUOMO: So I have one question for you on that, and I have two points of policy pushback. The first question on that is, I understand from people who are close to Dr. Ben Carson, that he sees volume as weakness in people. That when asked to explain why his demeanor is more quiet, that maybe he has to pump it up, you know, to show that he has the energy.

He says, no, no, no, strength is often in being measured in tone. That when someone's loud, the louder they have to make the point, the less they believe it. That true?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, listen, Chris. I think this is something you and I can agree on. I mean, when you have been a pediatric neurosurgeon for over 30 years; and your calmness and your gentleness and your listening saves lives or prevents people from lifelong injuries, that's just who he is. That's his character.

I mean, time, circumstances, and this campaign trail reveals your character. That's who he is. He can't be anybody else but that calm, gentle, low voice, but it doesn't mean that he's weak. He has the common strength; he has the discipline; and he has the judgment to understand that sometimes you don't have to be the loudest person in the room to be heard.

CUOMO: So, there's a CBS poll that just dropped while you were answering that question. Twenty-six-22, Carson is up everywhere, not just in Iowa. Now with this elevation of status will come elevation in scrutiny. Two points of pushback for you to respond to.

One, evangelicals in Iowa may be embracing Dr. Carson because of his faith. Is it fair criticism to look at Dr. Carson's faith being Seventh Day Adventists, in terms of how it may oppose evangelicals. There is a belief within the strictest tenets of Seventh Day Adventist beliefs that evangelicals will be going to hell. There are other extreme propositions in that faith and in many. Is that a fair line of criticism?

WILLIAMS: You know, with Dr. Carson's interview with a Malika Henderson, one of your very own here on CNN, and obviously, he does not embrace that. CNN has done that story.

You know what? People think about -- we get so caught up in these denominations, that one is better than another, but what matters is a person's moral compass. What matters is how they treat the least among us. What matters is their character. Are they honest? Are they trustworthy?

And if you look at the polls, Dr. Carson's favorability ratings are off the charts, Chris. They like him. They believe him. And so this is what faith should be about. It's not whether you're better than someone else. It's about whether you embrace the tenets of being a good human being, being a decent human being, and whether your word means anything. And whether you have the humility that, if you make a mistake, if you misstate something, that you're willing to apologize.

And whether you're willing to surround yourself with counselors, those who know more about you on foreign policy or maybe about the economy, so you can grow together. Because like Dr. Carson says, in a multitude of counselors, you will find wisdom. You will find the answers to move this country forward.

CUOMO: One more. On Medicare, Dr. Ben Carson had said earlier on, earlier this year, last May, that Medicare should be gone and replaced with a voucher system. He now says he doesn't want to do that. Maybe it will be an option. A plan is coming out.

[06:10:06] If he wants to be president of the United States, does he have to hold true to positions and not go back and forth, as he feels his way?

WILLIAMS: Chris, I hope not. I hope that Dr. Carson in his vacuum, when he was director of pediatric neurosurgery and everything was about being there at the hospital and the culture of the hospital, that he's willing to step out and see that there's a real world. And he talked to other experts and get other perspectives. He may begin to see flaws in his own ideas and other things that he may advocate.

I think one of the things that you want in a leader, that no matter how much you've invested in your ideas and your policies, if you find something that is truth and something that takes you to a place that really works and you're willing to abandon it, or at least incorporate those ideas to make the plan better.

Because it is all about what is -- what works for the people. It doesn't necessarily mean that Dr. Carson has all the right ideas in the beginning, but he's willing to surround himself with the right kind of thinkers and experts, experts who can help him get to that point. And so that's a good thing that Dr. Carson is willing to abandon, at least step back and say, "Maybe I was wrong. Let's re- evaluate."

CUOMO: Armstrong Williams, thank you for being on the show. And again, we encourage you to tell Dr. Carson we want to test the issues on this show throughout the rest of the campaign. Please extend our invitation. Good to see you here.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. One of our top stories this morning, we have to show you this disturbing classroom cell-phone video. It is sparking outrage nationwide. It shows an encounter between a white school police officer and a black female student. The young girl thrown from her desk and arrested after defying the officer's order to stand up. CNN's national correspondent, Jason Carroll, joins us with the very

latest.

What do we know, Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, still a lot of questions about what exactly happened before the arrest, but one thing is clear to the students who were there in the classroom. Moments after that officer entered the classroom, it escalated to a disturbing point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OFFICER BEN FIELDS, SOUTH CAROLINA SCHOOL POLICE OFFICER: Either you're going to come with me or I'm going to make you.

CARROLL (voice-over): South Carolina school police officer Ben Fields, seen here, is on administrative leave this morning after his violent takedown of a high school student was caught on camera Monday afternoon. You can see the sheriff's deputy tossing a female student to the ground after she refused to get up from her desk, then throwing her across the classroom floor.

FIELDS: Give me your hands. Give me your hands.

LT. CURTIS WILSON, RICHLAND COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We don't anyone to rush to judgment, but we also feel that the video was very, very disturbing.

CARROLL: According to police, the Richland County student was asked to leave the classroom. When she refused, Fields was called in to arrest her for disturbing class.

School officials say the video is, quote, "extremely disturbing," and has banned the deputy from all district schools, pending an investigation. The sheriff's department, who's also looking into the matter, says it's still unclear what happened before the camera started rolling.

WILSON: We'll have to look at this in its totality to understand exactly what happened. Is this a pattern? Is this something that he's done before?

CARROLL: The deputy has been the subject of two lawsuits in the last ten years. In 2007, a couple claimed he used excessive force in questioning them about a noise complaint. The husband says Fields slammed him to the ground, cuffed him, and began kicking him, but the jury ruled in Fields' favor in 2010.

In 2013, a student claimed Fields falsely accused the teen of being involved in a gang, the school expelling him. That lawsuit is ongoing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see a video like what we've seen earlier today, it certainly alarms you and makes you a little bit afraid of what is actually happening within our schools. CARROLL: The deputy has been working for the school district for

seven years and was recently awarded the Culture of Excellence Award in 2014 for proving to be what they say was an exceptional role model to the students.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And that female student there was not injured during the arrest. CNN has reached out to the officer in question. He has not responded to the requests for an interview -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, so many questions, Jason. Thanks so much for that reporting.

In our next hour, we will speak with Victoria Middleton. She's the executive director of the ACLU of South Carolina, about what they want to do about this -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: By the end of this century, parts of the Persian Gulf could be uninhabitable by humans because of global warming. That grim outlook coming in a report by the peer-reviewed journal, "Nature Climate Change." Researchers say this affects coastal cities from Dubai to Iran's Bandar Abas and threatens other Middle Eastern locations, including the holy city of Mecca.

CUOMO: Nobody puts Chewbacca in handcuffs, until now. Take a look. Someone dressed like the "Star Wars" character taken into custody at a polling station in Ukraine. Chewie who was there to campaign for mayoral candidate Darth Vader.

PEREIRA: Wait, what?

CUOMO: Yes, Darth Vader, who's a real candidate.

CAMEROTA: Don't try to sneak that by us.

CUOMO: But what Chewbacca didn't know, it's illegal to campaign on election day.

CAMEROTA: Hey.

CUOMO: So he was hauled off in handcuffs.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's the problem. Not that he's dressed as Chewbacca.

CUOMO: He was quoted as saying, "Aaaarrrr."

PEREIRA: One of the things that I've always admired about Chewbacca -- because you know I'm a big fan...

CAMEROTA: I know you are.

PEREIRA: ... is his fierce loyalty.

CAMEROTA: Yes. PEREIRA: You know what I mean?

CAMEROTA: And his political stances, which he...

PEREIRA: May be a little misguided there.

CUOMO: Took four officers. The funny thing is, is that it was all a costume. He was only like 5'5" inside that.

CAMEROTA: Stop!

All right. Meanwhile, we have to show you something on the other side of this, which is deadly serious. A white police officer was in this confrontation with a teenage student, a black teenage student. It has sparked outrage nationwide. We will discuss what's behind this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:19:31] CAMEROTA: A developing story this morning. A violent classroom confrontation between a police officer and a female student. It was caught on cell-phone video. And it raises questions about what police inside our classrooms are doing.

Our next guest, Jeff Roorda, is the author of "Ferghanistan: The War on Police." He is the business manager of the St. Louis Police Officers Association and a former Missouri state representative.

Mr. Roorda, thank you so much for being here. I know you've had a chance to watch this cell-phone video from this South Carolina classroom. Let's play it again so that our viewers can see what happened when this school resource officer, in other words, a sheriff's deputy in the school, confronts a female teenager, asks her to get up from her desk.

She doesn't instantly do it, and she takes her to the ground. He yanks her to the front of the class. He handcuffs her. Is there any other way to interpret this video, Mr. Roorda, than excessive force by that deputy?

JEFF ROORDA, BUSINESS MANAGER, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION: Well, it's not easy to watch, and it's easy to be outraged by that snippet of video, but remember, that's all we're seeing here is a snippet of video. We don't know the whole story. The whole story may very well tell us what we suspect from watching that video, that the officer overreacted, but there is more information out there. There's -- there's the officer's report that he'll be writing.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ROORDA: There's witness statements. There's the suspect's statement.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ROORDA: And whatever physical evidence.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you're right, we don't know what preceded that moment. But we do know from our local affiliate there in South Carolina that the teacher had, for some reason, asked her to leave the classroom. And then the police officer, and we even hear him saying, "stand up" to her, which she's not doing.

But we don't see her fighting back. We don't see her being physical. We don't see her being violent. Even if a high school student doesn't instantly comply with your orders, do you have to use force? Couldn't he have talked to her?

ROORDA: Well, yes, I don't know what preceded that. I don't know if there was some conversation between he and her before the video that we see. We don't know that she didn't pull away and fall over herself. It certainly looks like the officer is using a lot of force there. But sometimes these interactions can appear differently than they actually are.

Listen, I don't defend bad cops, and what we see here is certainly questionable and ought to be questioned. We need answers as a community about what happened there, as we do in all these situations.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You know, this video plays right into the very same narrative that we heard the director of the FBI, James Comey, talking about yesterday. And that is the so-called Ferguson effect. And that is that cell-phone video is so ubiquitous now that it's actually having a chilling effect on police officers. They're not wanting to do their jobs, because they might be caught on cell-phone video, maybe doing something improper or maybe doing something that may be misinterpreted.

Let me play for you what the FBI director said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I spoke to officers in one big-city precinct who describe being surrounded by young people with mobile phones held high taunting them when they get out of their cars. They said to me, "We feel under siege, and we don't feel much like getting out of our cars."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Are you seeing this, Mr. Roorda? Are you seeing your police officers who are changing the way they do business, because they're afraid of being caught on cell phone?

ROORDA: Well, I am, but I think Director Comey's point was -- was larger than that. I think his point was the Ferguson effect is more than just videos being taken. It's about the unwarranted criticism of law enforcement. The hyper-scrutiny that they're under and how difficult policing has become in America and that there is a clear impact on violent crimes that -- that has followed this phenomenon.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but I mean, he's saying, just to interrupt you, he's saying, I mean, it appears that the hyper-scrutiny that police officers are under is because there's been a series of things caught on cell-phone video. Without the cell-phone video, they -- we wouldn't be analyzing frame by frame exactly how they're acting in these situations. That's what started it.

Now they're under this hyper-scrutiny. And are you seeing police officers not wanting to get out of the car and do their job because of this fear?

ROORDA: Well, the false narrative in Ferguson about what happened between Darren Wilson and Michael Brown is what actually started this.

But, yes, the video certainly does have an effect. And police officers have known for a long time that with new technology, not just dashboard cams and body cams, but cell phones, where everybody has the ability not only to videotape things, but to broadcast them to the world in a matter of seconds, that it has -- that it has changed the world. Not just the way cops do they job, but the way people act in public in general has changed.

CAMEROTA: OK. So I mean, but given that this is our new world, cell- phone video isn't going away. What's the answer for police officers?

ROORDA: Well, the answer for police officers is the answer for our entire society. That we have to take this video for what it's worth. I'm sure every one of your viewers has been watching a baseball game and has seen a bang-bang play at first base where they thought the runner was safe when they first saw it, and in a slo-mo replay from a different angle, they see the runner is out.

[06:25:10] I mean, we just have to reserve judgment. And I don't mean to excuse law enforcement when they do things wrong and they're captured on video. That's a good thing, because it cleans up the industry. But we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

CAMEROTA: Jeff Roorda, thanks so much. Great to get your perspective.

ROORDA: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Dr. Ben Carson is leading Donald Trump for the first time in a brand-new national poll. What's happening to the Donald? What's fueling Carson's surge? We'll discuss it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:29:35] CUOMO: Breaking news. Ben Carson surging ahead of Donald Trump for the first time, not just in Iowa, in a national poll. A brand-new CBS/"New York Times" poll giving Carson a four-point lead. More importantly, quadrupling his support since August.

Let's discuss with CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Mr. Kevin Madden; and CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist, senior advisor to a pro-Hillary super PAC, Mr. Paul Begala.

Kevin Madden, do you see in this a potential future nominee for your party? Or continued problems of getting the establishment into the hunt?