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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

CIA Director Hacked; Sanders in Iowa; Pop Culture Buzz and Votes; Accidental Shooting. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 19, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to have you here with us. Really appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, guys.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, guys, so much. And thank you all for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."

BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: He is 80 years old and on trial today, accused of plotting the mob heist that inspired the movie "Goodfellas," and also of brutally murdering a suspected informant.

And also this hour, breaking down the post-debate poll numbers and ratcheting up the political satire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the only candidate up here who's not a billionaire. I don't have a Super PAC. I don't even have a backpack. I carry my stuff around loose in my arms like a (INAUDIBLE), you know, between classes. I own one pair of underwear. That's it. Some of these billionaires, they got three, four pairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Live from New York, this is LEGAL VIEW. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

And we're going to go to Oskaloosa, Iowa, where the real Bernie Sanders, and not the guy you just heard ranting about his undies on "Saturday Night Live," is actually hosting a town hall. Don't know if he'll start with a joke, as he did after "SNL," but we're going to get to that shortly.

First, though, this breaking news out of Washington.

The FBI and the Secret Service are apparently investigating reports that an e-mail account that's associated with this man, you recognize him, the CIA Director John Brennan, well, apparently that e-mail has been hack and we're hearing that his account may not be the only one that's been hacked.

I want to bring in our justice reporter, Evan Perez, who's live in our Washington newsroom.

You know, I first saw this on the front cover of "The New York Post" this morning, Evan. I read the details. I, frankly, didn't believe it was possible but it's more and more looking that the details are actually true. Walk me through what we know.

EVAN PEREZ CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, what we know is that we're talking about the accounts of John Brennan, the head of the CIA, and Jeh Johnson, secretary of Homeland Security. The FBI and the Secret Service are investigating whether or not these accounts were hacked by this apparent teenager who gave an interview to "The New York Post." Now he's been on Twitter as well boasting about his exploits about what he's able, been able to do. And particularly embarrassing and perhaps worrisome is the idea of getting a hold of John Brennan's private information.

Now, one of the things that this hacker says he got was the SF-86 form, the government form that Brennan would have filled out in order to get his government security clearance. Now this was - would have been back when - before he was back in the government. This would have been when he was in private life. And so this was an AOL account that he says he got into. In the case of Jeh Johnson, it was a Comcast e- mail account. We are told by officials that we've talked to, they don't believe any classified information is involved but we do have a statement from the CIA saying, quote, "we are aware of the reports that have surfaced on social media and have referred the matter to the appropriate authorities." DHS said that they don't discuss the secretary's security information and they forwarded this matter to the appropriate authorities, Ashleigh.

It does bear to remind everyone of how prevalent this kind of stuff is. We don't hear about it involving public officials very often. Certainly we hear about it with Russia and China trying to - into government e-mail accounts but their private e-mails, it's a - it's a different matter.

BANFIELD: Well, and I think this is - this is the issue, is that it is a private AOL account, at least in the case of Mr. Brennan.

PEREZ: That's right.

BANFIELD: What are the rules and regulations, if there are any, for the use of your private e-mail, other than the obvious, Evan, which is, you shouldn't have any classified material on a personal e-mail account.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: But what are the rules for actually, you know, operating one?

PEREZ: Well, you know, everybody has one simply because there are non- government things you're doing during the course of your day. So it's very common for people to have them. You're not, again, like you said, you're not supposed to conduct government business on these accounts. And in the case of Brennan, we don't - the information we have so far that has been released doesn't indicate that it's government work. You know, the SF-86, this is his government form, this is private information that he would have filled out while he was a private citizen. So, again, that doesn't - it doesn't indicate that there was anything wrong there. It is embarrassing and the security issue is obviously important here.

BANFIELD: High school kid. Pretty remarkable stuff.

PEREZ: A high school. Yes.

BANFIELD: A high school kid. Not like when I was in high school.

All right, Evan Perez, thank you for that. Keep us posted the more you find out as this develops.

PEREZ: Sure.

BANFIELD: Thank you.

I want to take our viewers now to Iowa, because the Vermont independent who wants to be the Democratic nomination - nominee for president is about to hold a town hall meeting at William Penn University with brand new CNN polling as the backdrop. In the wake of last week's debate on CNN, the Democratic horse race is largely unchanged. Hillary Clinton is the choice of 45 percent of the Democratic voters who were polled. Twenty-nine percent picked Sanders. Eighteen percent say Joe Biden's their man, and Joe Biden, I'll remind you, hasn't decided whether or not he's going to even run. If he doesn't run, well, that dynamic changes things. The secretary, Hillary Clinton, picks up 11 percentage points and Sanders, the senator, picks up only four.

[12:05:31] And when we asked who did the best job in the five-way Democratic face-off, a whopping 62 percent named Hillary Clinton, but that does not translate into an actual bounce in the horse race poll. The numbers gathered late last week look a lot like the numbers from a month ago. Sanders' numbers actually grew more than Clintons. We do find a shift on the Biden issue with 47 percent of the Democratic voters now saying the VP should run for president versus 49 percent who say he should not. In August, a majority thought that he should.

And we should know for sure any time now. Buzz wise, it is all about Bernie, though, right now and a lot of that is thanks to a political rite of passage over the weekend, his first all-out send-up on "Saturday Night Live."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY DAVID, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I'm the only candidate up here who's not a billionaire. I don't have a super PAC. I don't even have a backpack. I carry my stuff around loose if in my arms like a professional (ph), you know, between classes. I own one pair of underwear. That's it. Some of these billionaires, they've got three, four pairs. And I don't have a dryer. I have to put my clothes on the radiator. So who do you want as president? One of these Washington insiders or a guy who has one pair of clean underwear that he dries on a radiator? BernieSanders.com, check it out, it's a mess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It's a mess. It's a mess. Of course, that was Larry David. That was Larry David in the casting coupe of the century you might say.

I want to turn now to my CNN colleague, Sunlen Serfaty, who's with the real Senator Sanders in Iowa.

And, Sunlen, he had to sort of make a reference to that, his first, you know, appearance out of the gate after the "SNL" appearance that he was, in fact, Bernie Sanders and not Larry David, but are we expecting him to carry any of that forward or is he back to business?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think he definitely is back to business here, Ashleigh, today in Iowa. He's kicking up a two-day swing here in Oskaloosa. But I do think that Bernie Sanders is having a little fun with the moment, this focus being on him and Larry David and his impersonation. He seems to be embracing it, certainly playing it up on the campaign trail. And when asked by reporters last night about that moment, here's how he responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, last week I bought my second pair of underwear. That's a joke, all right. Please don't write it down. That was a joke. Yes, I have an ample supply of underwear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, I certainly think that there is a sense within this campaign that this could play to Sanders' advantage, of course. He's known for someone for being very serious, really focusing on the issues and not really wanting to let his hair down a little, so to speak. So I think this is letting him step outside his comfort zone a bit, Ashleigh, really taking advantage of this lighter moment on the campaign trail.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes, Sunlen, I don't know that he lets this hair down, but I know for sure he does lets it out. That is 100 percent true. And I will say this, it's sort of hard to tell the difference in some of those mannerisms at times between, you know, the candidate and the character that was being played by - by Larry.

Real quickly, can you let us listen in for a second. I'm going to ask you a question on the other side, but I want to hear Bernie Sanders behind you for one second. Let's pause.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Which has a tradition of town meetings over several hundred years. Meetings like this. People come together to discuss the school budget or the highway budget. And everybody gets one vote. That's called democracy. And I want you to think and I want to discuss this. Does it make sense, is it consistent with democracy, to say that you have one vote, and you've got one vote. Koch brothers, second wealthiest family in America, they have one vote, oh, but they can spend $900 million on this campaign? Is that a good idea? Is it a good idea, 50 years after the passage of the Voting Rights Act, and as you know the Voting Rights Act was a very significant step forward, which finally said that all Americans, regardless of the color of their skin, were going to have the right to vote that a few years ago the Supreme Court undid an important provision of the Voting Rights Act, and now we have governors and legislatures, Republican governors and legislatures, all over this country passing laws which essentially make it harder for poor people or old people or young people to vote under the guise of trying to fight voter fraud.

[12:10:33] BANFIELD: So, Sunlen, I want to bring you back in as the senator continues his classic stump speech. He's back to those - it's almost like four to five solid bullet points that he makes on a regular basis. But I still want to get the reaction from his campaign to these polling numbers that just came out at 6:00 this morning, because they show that without Joe Biden in the race, Hillary Clinton's lead is enormous and it seems to be growing.

SERFATY: Well, Ashleigh, the campaign says that there are some outstanding points to this new poll, and they point to specifically that Senator Sanders has jumped in the horse race and that he has had at least a few bonus points coming through this poll. They also point to the fact that he has high favorability ratings after the debate, 84 percent had a good favorability rating when they talked about their views of Bernie Sanders after the debate. So certainly there's a sense within the campaign that the more he introduces himself to people, the more he's in front of television on the national stage, the better. But here in Iowa, I have to say, there is a small shift. You know, behind me, this is not a big booming rally that the campaign typically has. This is a small, intimate setting where he's talking one or one with voters. This is a strategy change on their part, but really to enter into the persuasion phase.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Sunlen, thanks. Keep an eye on things for us because one of the big questions post "SNL" has been this, can Bernie Sanders use all of this new buzz to pick up actual votes? Does it change the dynamic when you show up on a show like "SNL," even if you're not on it and someone else is you? You're going to find out in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:25] BANFIELD: If you're following the Democratic presidential race, you may have heard Bernie Sanders' argument for breaking up the big banks. This that you're about to see, this is not it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY DAVID, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I'm not a fan of the banks. They trample on the middle-class. They control Washington. And why do they chain all their pens to the desks? Who's trying to steal a pen from a bank? It makes no sense. That's why you've got to break up the banks into little pieces and then flush the pieces down the toilet so you can never put the banks back together. Then you just make the bankers pay for college for everyone, and America's fixed. Eh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I can see that over and over again. And, of course, with Larry David on "SNL," "Saturday Night Live." And it brings me to the question of pop culture buzz and whether and how that actually translates into votes, or doesn't.

I'm joining by CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter and CNN political analyst, also editor-in-chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon.

All right, you two, let me start with you, Brian Stelter. I think it's important to ask the question. We have seen this happen before. We have seen candidates show up, famously Sarah Palin, famously John McCain, famously Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. What does it mean, what does it do in the polls afterwards? How does it change the metric for these people?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely creates a sense of these people being 3D actual living, breathing human beings, as opposed to just politicians, and that is enormously valuable. The Sanders' campaign is joking today about how they're doing pretty well in the latest CNN poll, and that was before Larry David. So at least a partial possibility of seeing a further benefit.

Now, I wondered if Bernie saw that and cringed of Larry David. Saw that and just absolutely cringed. But he at least embraced it yesterday, said he liked the joke, said he was in on the joke -

BANFIELD: Publicly, yes.

STELTER: Publicly said all the right thing. And I've asked NBC, is Larry David going to be back? You know, because he's a giant star. Will he ever come back and do the Sanders's impersonation again? They said they don't have any comment. But I bet they are going to be begging Larry David to come back because it was so spot-on. It has everybody talking two days later.

BANFIELD: And you don't have to do any equal time either when they're fake. When they're characters, there's no equal time issue.

STELTER: That's right.

BANFIELD: John Avlon, I want to ask you, do you think there's the possibility, though, for voters out there to conflate the real guy with the character, as I really think happened with Sarah Palin. I think people really believed that Sarah Palin said, "I could see Russia from my house," not Tina Fey, who actually said that as a joke.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, I mean, it can definitely cut both ways and I think the pop culture overlay, that reputational enhancement that when you become a character on "SNL" really does cut both ways. It amplifies you're message. You become part of the pop culture pantheon. But it can take you down hard as well, as Sarah Palin learned with Tina Fey. And - and, you know, Larry David, that episode of "burn your enthusiasm" we saw on Sunday - Saturday night is an instant classic, right? It almost was begging to be run, because Larry David just hit it out of the park. But again, if the argument is about electability, more than just a curio candidacy, it doesn't necessarily help Bernie Sanders. He's handling it well. He's laughing it off. But "SNL's" sweet spot is politics, has been for a decade or more. So this is some measure that Bernie Sanders has finally arrived parodied by Larry David for all the world.

STELTER: Interesting point.

BANFIELD: What I think is amazing, when you - when you said he hit it out of the park, I actually don't think so. I just believe Larry Sanders was being Larry Sanders and amazingly that is exactly what - or Larry David was being - see there, I did it. Larry Sanders.

[12:20:02] STELTER: See, this is how it affects us.

BANFIELD: I conflated the two right there. It's just that Bernie Sanders is so much like him in real life that that's what was so magical about that.

STELTER: And, by the way, Sanders hates this, right? The real Bernie Sanders hates the talk about silliness and about entertainment. He always wants it to be about policy. He goes and lambasts corporate media. He's probably doing it right now at his town hall.

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: We should keep that in mind. But the bottom line is that young people feel a connection to Bernie Sanders. That's why that "SNL" moment was so important for him. The Hillary Clinton character even joked about young people thinking that Bernie Sanders is cool. So there's something very real there that's going to be important, not just for last weekend, but all of the Saturdays in the future as this campaign goes on and on.

BANFIELD: I will not make the mistake and call him Bernie David ever.

Thank you, guys.

STELTER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: John, nice to see you, as always. Brian, thank you. Appreciate it.

STELTER: Thanks.

AVLON: All right. Take care, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Before we move on, I do have this, the latest ruckus in the Republican field centered not on America's future, but it's not too distant past. You may have heard the GOP frontrunner, Donald Trump, taking issue with Jeb Bush's claims that his brother, George Bush, quote, "keep us safe" from al Qaeda. Jeb spoke yesterday on "State of the Union."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My brother responded to a crisis, and he did it as you would hope a president would do, he united the country, he organized our country and he kept us safe. And there's no denying that. The great majority of Americans believe that and I don't know why he keeps bringing this up. It's - it doesn't show that he's a serious person as it relates to being commander and chief and being the architect of a foreign policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Never one not to get the last word. Donald Trump spoke by phone this morning on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): But I'm not - I'm not blaming anybody. I don't like to go back and blame, I like to look to the future. I'm not blaming anybody. The only thing I said, well, you know, he said we were safe. Well, the fact is, we had the worst attack in the history of our country during his reign. Jeb said we were safe during his reign. That wasn't true. And that's the only thing I pointed out. And I'm not blaming anybody and I'm not blaming George Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Donald Trump says he's going to weigh in again and it's going to happen at 6:00 a.m. right here on CNN tomorrow. Make sure you stay tuned for "New Day" in the morning.

Coming up next, we hear so many things about shootings in Chicago, but you rarely hear about one like this where a six-year-old child kills his own three-year-old brother playing cops and robbers, but the gun was real. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:45] BANFIELD: I want to take you to Chicago now. A heartbreaking story about a six-year-old boy who was doing what most six-year-olds do, playing cops and robbers with his three-year-old brother, but the gun he was using was not a toy. It was a revolver, and it was loaded, and it wasn't locked away and, sadly, you can predict what happened next. I want to show you a picture of three- year-old Ian (ph) Santiago. Saturday night, his father was at work. His mother went to the store and his grandmother was watching him and his brother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISRAEL LASALLE, BOYS' GRANDFATHER: He was a good kid. I heard a pop. And I came to the door and the six-year-old, he told me, Ian has been shot. So I ran down there and I grabbed him. He was laying flat. And I grabbed him and flipped him over and he had blood all over him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A family member took little Ian to the hospital, but it was too late. He died, shot in the head, accidentally, by his own brother. Chicago police say the gun was wrapped in pajama pants and stashed on top of the refrigerator. Their father, 25-year-old Michael Santiago, put it there. Our Rosa Flores is live in Chicago right now.

There are charges now facing this father. What more do you know about it?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, those charges could grow is what we're learning this morning, Ashleigh. We're learning that police are looking into this weapon because they believe it was illegally obtained, and so those charges could grow for this father. And we're learning more about the father, more about this weapon. Hear this, police telling CNN that the weapon is an older model. Police are processing it right now. They're trying to figure out when it was obtain, how it was obtained, because they did learn from an interview with Santiago that he, according to him, he told police, that he purchased it from another gang member. Emphasis there on "another gang member" because he, himself, police tell me, is a documented gang member in Chicago. And so right now the charges that he faces are felony child endangerment, but those charges could grow.

Now, he's expected to face a judge again today at 1:30 Central, 2:30 Eastern. And it's a bond hearing. Bond is set right now at $75,000.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Rosa Flores live for us in Chicago. Thank you for that.

This is not the first story of shootings involving children, and it's pretty safe to say right now that this is not going to be the last. In fact, just earlier this month, a couple of weeks ago, we showed you these pictures. Police in Jefferson County, Tennessee, reporting in that an 11-year-old boy shot an eight-year-old girl to death with a shotgun because she wouldn't let him see her new puppy dog. McKayla Dyer died just three weeks after her eighth birthday. Her family says that she was a lovable, typical eight-year-old who loved everyone. And like nearly all girls everywhere, loved the Disney movie "Frozen."

[12:29:55] The 11-year-old shooter got the gun from an unlocked closet. And so far his father has not been charged with anything. The boy, however, the goy, 11 years old, is facing first degree murder charges in that case. And he's being held in a juvenile detention center. All 50 pounds of him. Tiny.