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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

CNN Democratic Debate; Democratic Race for President; Three Democratic Candidates. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 12, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Tomorrow we will continue our special coverage of the Democratic debate, the first Democratic debate, live from Las Vegas. Miss Kate Bolduan joins me here.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: As long as the planes fly on time, John. Thanks so much for joining us, everybody. LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Ashleigh Banfield on this Monday.

Five identical podiums, side by side on a CNN stage in Las Vegas. But a day before the biggest event of the Democratic nominated race to date, it's more clear than ever that one of these contenders stands apart. Check out these brand new CNN/ORC poll numbers from the early voting states of Nevada and South Carolina.

Dems who say they're likely to take part in the Nevada caucuses favor Hillary Clinton by a 16-point margin over Bernie Sanders. Clinton is supported by half the likely caucusgoers, Sanders by roughly a third and Joe Biden, if he runs, by 12 percent. Without Biden, Clinton's number swells to 58 percent, Sanders inches up to 36. No one else gets more than 3 percent.

And South Carolina, take a look, non-candidate Biden claims second place with a quart of the likely vote and Clinton still dominates. Without Biden, it's not even a contest. Clinton's support surges to 70 percent versus 20 percent for Sanders. We'll talk more about all of that in just a moment. But, first, I want to bring in CNN's Jim Acosta in the Wynn Hotel in the Las Vegas Strip.

So, Jim, set the stage for us, so to speak. What are the topics and the format?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pam.

You can see the debate stage is almost set. We've had CNN crews in this auditorium for the last 48 hours working day and night, putting the pieces to this puzzle together. You can see the five podiums behind me. One added new feature, we can show you this hour, we have some photographs on all of these podiums. You see Lincoln Chafee right there, the former governor of Rhode Island, Martin O'Malley, the former governor of Maryland. There's Hillary Clinton. She is center stage. She's at the center position in terms of these podiums. Obviously, she is the front-runner, as you were just mentioning in those polls. But then there's the insurgent Democrat, independent senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, the self-described socialist. He's been capturing the imagination of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. He'll be right next to her. And then the former Virginia senator, Jim Webb.

And then just to give you a sense of the scope of the debate hall that we're in, let me take you right here to the actual center stage where, you know, you can see the audience has been filled in here in terms of the chairs. We didn't see any of this yesterday. So a lot more is being put into place for this debate coming up on Tuesday night. A big screen over here that we want to mention on the far side of the room. That will be used for Facebook users to chime in with their own questions during the course of the debate. So it will not just be coming from our moderator, Anderson Cooper, and questioners Dana Bash and Juan Carlos Lopez, but the audience at home will be able to field questions or I guess offer questions to these candidates to be fielded during the course of the debate.

And, Pam, you know, a couple of potential flash points to be looking for just based on what we've been hearing over the last 24 hours, Bernie Sanders has been going after Hillary Clinton on her vote in favor of the Iraq War. Bernie Sanders pointing out to his supporters, he voted against the Iraq War. That echoes of the 2008 campaign. Barack Obama, who was against the Iraq War, used that against Hillary Clinton and really used it to his advantage throughout the course of that battle royal between those two candidates at that time.

And then on the issue of guns, I think something to look forward to at this debate on Tuesday night, because the Democrats are talking more and more about gun control during the course of this campaign, you know, Bernie Sanders is something of a moderate on that issue. He comes from Vermont, which is, you know, there are a lot of people in Vermont who are - feel very strongly about the Second Amendment, want to protect the Second Amendment, don't want to see more gun control, he's been more moderate on that issue and Martin O'Malley has said he may go after Bernie Sanders on that issue.

So a couple of potential flash points to be looking forward to in the debate coming up on Tuesday night. And Hillary Clinton, you know, she has not been involved in a debate since 2008. How are her debate skills? How prepared is she going to be, because, obviously, all the attention is going to be on her in just about 36 hours from now. It should be fascinating political television.

Pam.

BROWN: Absolutely. And, of course, that begs the question, have the candidates come through at all there for a walk-through at all?

ACOSTA: We have not seen any candidate walk-throughs yet. A little early for that. But I can tell you, there are CNN crews literally all around me at this point putting the pieces of this puzzle together. You can see these are sort of mock audience members at this point. Some of these folks were standing behind these podiums yesterday. So really - you know, you can hear somebody using a belt sander or something, a drill or something off in the background. So it does take some time to put something together like this for a big prime time debate.

But I can tell you, having been here for the last 24 hours or so, I mean this is really starting to come together. I just saw somebody painting sort of the edges of this podium right here for Dana Bash and Juan Carlos Lopez's table. So they really are starting to put the finishing touches on this debate for tomorrow night. And all we need at this point, the candidates, the moderators, the questioners.

[12:05:13] BROWN: Yes.

ACOSTA: And we'll be all set to go.

BROWN: Thirty-two hours to go. Thank you so much, Jim Acosta. Appreciate it.

ACOSTA: You're welcome.

BROWN: And now let's survey the Democratic landscape with CNN political commentators Donna Brazile and Hilary Rosen.

Great to have you on. Donna and Hilary are Democratic strategists. And I should add that neither Donna nor Hilary endorses any particular candidate in the Democratic field.

So on that note, Donna, do you think that Bernie is done after New Hampshire considering these new poll results that came out showing Hillary with a huge lead in Nevada and South Carolina?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Senator Sanders has run a very good campaign. He's out there mobilizing new people to not just join the Democratic Party but get involved in politics. He's talking about issues that matters to the American people. This is not a debate about left or right, it's really about right versus wrong. And I think Senator Sanders is doing a tremendous job in reaching people where they live and where they work and really galvanizing them. And that's what the country need and I think that's also what the Democratic Party needs.

BROWN: But, Hilary, let's take a closer look as to how Sanders is doing in South Carolina. in fact, black South Carolina voters break for Hillary 84 percent to 7 percent. In fact, my colleague, John Berman, asked Bernie's campaign manager this morning on "New Day" about that and here's what he said. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WEAVER, SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: The more voters learn about Bernie Sanders, the more they like him. So, in New Hampshire, where he's best known of all the states, he's leading. In Iowa, where he's the second best known, right, he's either even or only slightly behind. In Nevada now, your other poll today, which I think is a phenomenal poll for us, we haven't had any staff here until last week. Yesterday we had a meeting. We called for volunteers to come out. We had 200 people show up in Henderson. So we've done nothing here in Nevada. We're only down by 15, 16 points. So I think that's a phenomenal poll. And I think you're going to see, as the dates come closer and closer for these various primaries and caucuses, you're going to see movement toward Bernie Sanders as people pay more attention to the discussion in the race and that's sort of the phenomenon that we're seeing in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So making the point there that the more people know Bernie Sanders, the more they like him.

Hilary, do you buy that?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, you know, South Carolina and Nevada have a much more diverse democratic primary electorate, much less white, much more African-American and Latino, particularly in Nevada. So, you know, the key thing, though, for these wins that Democrats had in the White House in 2008 and 2012 was the coalition. There was a coalition of young people, minority voters and women who came together to put Barack Obama over the line. Really this - these Democratic nominees need all three of those groups. They need to energize them. Bernie Sanders is clearly energizing young people. Hillary Clinton's clearly energizing women. African-American and Latino voters, in some respects, are up for grabs in several states.

BROWN: And it's clear that a lot of people still -

BRAZILE: And I might add that -

BROWN: Oh, go ahead.

BRAZILE: I've got to add that, you know, African-American voters, Latino voters, I mean they're like all Americans -

ROSEN: Yes.

BRAZILE: They want a candidate who will champion their issues. They want somebody who they know will stand with them on difficult issues like, you know, Secretary Clinton has, still within our criminal justice reform, on health insurance, on jobs and, of course, immigration reform. That's what they're looking for, they're looking for a champion. And they know Hillary Clinton's record. They know Bernie Sanders' record. They know Martin O'Malley's record and the others. So I think this is going to be a robust debate. We're going to have a great conversation. We're not going to have a clash of personalities like the Republicans. It's going to be a clash of ideas. And that's good for the country and good for the Democratic Party.

ROSEN: But in many ways it's about for the future for these communities, right? So the - all of these communities have new-found leverage in this election. The Black Lives Matter movement has energized a whole new group of African-American voters. Latinos who are getting hammered by the bigotry in the Republican Party. LGBT people who have, you know, just won a Supreme Court decision, they now want to know, how are they going to fit in to the larger American fabric? And so these candidates can't just play, as Donna said, identity politics. They have to have a vision that includes people in a much more diverse, forward-looking America.

BROWN: Sure to be a very interesting, robust debate, as you said.

[12:09:33] Donna Brazile, Hilary Rosen, stay with us. We have a lot more to talk about, because one of the big questions, how will Bernie Sanders approach Hillary Clinton? Find out tomorrow night at 8:30 Eastern right here on CNN when the first Democratic presidential debate airs.

And up next, you won't see him on stage, but he'll definitely be a factor in tomorrow night's debate. So, will the candidates be trying to distance themselves from President Obama?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Ahead of tomorrow's debate, there is a bombshell of allegations about the House committee investigating Hillary Clinton's role in the Benghazi attack. The committee's investigator, Bradley Podliska, was fired in June after 10 months on the job. He says GOP members dismissed him because he refused to focus his investigation on Clinton and her e-mails. He says he instead was trying to uncover what happened in the 2012 attack in Libya. Podliska, a lifelong Republican, an Air Force officer, talked exclusively to CNN's Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you say to any viewers out there who think that you might have an ax to grind? That you're only talking because you were fired?

BRAD PODLISKA, FIRED BENGHAZI COMMITTEE STAFFER: As I said earlier, I have a conscience. I - there's wrongdoing here and I think it needs to stop. And I do not want the investigation to end. I want the investigation to be refocused back to its original purpose. The victims' families are owed the truth. Hillary Clinton has a lot of explaining to do. We, however, do not need to shift resources to hyper focus on Hillary Clinton. We didn't need to de-emphasize, and in some cases drop the investigation on different agencies, different organizations and different individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:15:22] BROWN: Let's bring back our panelist, Donna Brazile and Hilary Rosen.

Donna, first to you, do you think the candidates, tomorrow night, will even bring up Benghazi? You have Kevin McCarthy's comments and the fired committee staffer here. It seems like this could be an easy win for Hillary Clinton to answer saying that essentially this was a political witch hunt and you have all these evidence - all this evidence of that.

BRAZILE: Loo, I think she should bring it up if Anderson or one of the moderators don't bring it up. And the reason why is that for the last eight months, what we've seen is press release after press release. This is a committee that has investigated Hillary Clinton, not investigated what happened to four brave Americans that night in Libya. It should be disbanded. There's no reason why the committee should continue. Secretary Clinton is going to testify in a couple of weeks. And after she testifies, again, they should disband this committee unless they will focus on what happened to those four American. This is a witch hunt. They're going after Hillary Clinton. The American people will figure this out for themselves and I really do believe that Chairman Gowdy should just own up to the mistakes that they have made and go ahead and get rid of this committee.

BROWN: All right, but, Hilary, what about the Clinton e-mail server controversy? This has been seen as one of her biggest vulnerabilities. Do you think it could be one of her biggest vulnerabilities during the debate tomorrow night and how should she respond considering that many of her responses the past few months have been a bit inconsistent?

ROSEN: Well, I think she sort of built up to being much more open and vulnerable about it. And it's too bad that that didn't happen at the outset. I actually don't think that the other Democratic candidates, though, think that this is a very big issue for Hillary Clinton out there among the voters. And so my guess is that they're not going to have a real pile-on about this. There will be a subtle dig about, you know, whether they think she's trustworthy or not, but I think that's going to be as far as it goes.

You heard the president of the United States say yesterday that he thought that this was really no big deal. She said she made a mistake. She made a mistake. But there was no national security interests that were harmed. When you have the president of the United States and the leader of the Democratic Party saying, hey, guys, you are making this way too political, I think that's going to quiet Democrats down.

BROWN: And you mentioned the president. He had an interview on "60 Minutes," which you're referring to, and he also weighed in on his chances if he was running. Let's take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think if you ran again, and could run again, and did run again, you would be elected?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do?

OBAMA: I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So the president, he has an overall approve rating of 44 percent at last check. He's even more popular within the Democratic Party. So, Donna, why is Hillary Clinton putting distance between herself and from the president's positions on immigration, that the president's new Pacific trade deal and Syria? BRAZILE: She's running for president of the United States. I mean,

President Obama has done a phenomenal job, I think, in improving our economy. You know, 67 months of consecutive job growth. We have health care now available to 16 million more Americans. There's no reason for Hillary Clinton to run as President Obama. She has to run as Hillary Clinton. She has her ideas, her vision. And I do believe that what she is saying to the American people, along with the other Democratic candidates, is that they have ideas that will move us forward, continue not just the progress we've made on health care, on the economy, jobs, keeping America safe and secure, but really transforming this country in ways that will allow us in the 21st century to be more competitive and to continue to grow our economy and take care of our own.

ROSEN: I think you're going to hear all the Democrats tonight - tomorrow night say, we've made a lot of progress. We're really doing pretty well in this country. We've got to do better, though.

BRAZILE: Yes.

ROSEN: And we've got to help people who have been left behind. I don't think President Obama would expect them to say anything less.

BRAZILE: That's right.

BROWN: And, again, that debate tomorrow night. The five candidates willing on the stage there in Las Vegas. Political panel, do stay with us.

ROSEN: I do think that President Obama could get re-elected, though.

BRAZILE: He could get - no.

ROSEN: We both think that President Obama could probably get re- elected.

BROWN: Is that right.

BRAZILE: And, by the way, he's still young enough to run for office again. But I don't know, we better check with the first lady. She may have other ideas.

BROWN: Yes, and there may be -

BRAZILE: And, by the way, she's also qualified to run one day.

BROWN: There's this thing called a two-term limit, though. I don't know.

All right, thanks so much.

BRAZILE: Yes, that's true.

BROWN: Donna Brazile, Hilary Rosen, thank you so much.

[12:19:45] And up next, by now you know Hillary and Bernie, we were just talking about them, but you may not be on a first name basis with the other three candidates in the Democratic debate. We can fix that just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:24:15] BROWN: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders may be dominating in the polls, but three other Democrats are also taking the stage tomorrow night, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb. And they're hoping to grab the spotlight at the presidential debate. All three are coming in at a combined 2 percent in the polls. Poppy Harlow takes a closer look at the candidates and where they stand on the issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chances are you know her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bernie Sanders!

HARLOW: And you know him. But do you know them? Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb. They don't always make the campaign headlines, but all three will share the stage with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders come Tuesday night.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Whether vanes kind of shift in the wind. I know where I stand.

HARLOW: Let's start with Martin O'Malley. You could say the married father of four, who was born in Washington, D.C., was tailor-made for a career in politics. At only 20, O'Malley left college briefly to work on the presidential campaign of Colorado Senator Gary Hart and by 28 was ready for office himself, winning a seat on the Baltimore City Council. From there, his political aspirations grew. First, mayor of Baltimore, then governor of Maryland.

But here's something you probably didn't know about Martin O'Malley. He's fronted a rock band and he even used his guitar skills to tease his presidential bid. On the issues, gun control, O'Malley wants stronger, expanded background checks and assault weapons ban, plus a limit on the size of gun magazines. On immigration, he supports a path to citizenship. And on climate change, O'Malley says it is real and a real threat. He wants stronger regulation of greenhouse gas emissions.

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Lincoln Chafee, the one-time Republican U.S. senator, then independent governor of Rhode Island, has just announced he is running.

HARLOW: Next, Lincoln Chafee, a former mayor of Warwick and a U.S. senator from Rhode Island. He was a Republican then but he became an independent in 2007 as governor. But now he wants to be the next president as a Democrat. On the issues, health care, Chafee not only likes Obamacare, but if president says he would take it a step further, pushing for even more Americans to be fully recovered. On defeating ISIS, Chafee opposes American boots on the ground in Syria, but insists America must forge stronger alliances in the Middle East. In 2002, Chafee was the only Senate Republican to vote against war in

Iraq. On social issues, Chafee supports a woman's right to choose to have an abortion and supports same-sex marriage.

JIM WEBB (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am un-bought and I am un- bossed.

HARLOW: And then there's Jim Webb, a highly decorated Marine veteran, former secretary of the Navy, former U.S. senator from Virginia, author, teacher, husband and father of six. On the issues, climate change, Webb wants to limit the Environmental Protection Agency's power to regulate emissions and supports the Keystone pipeline and energy expansion. Immigration reform he wants to see a path to citizenship, but says the border must be secured first. On prison reform, Webb wants there to be more focus on treating mental illness and drug addiction and would push for more dialogue on ways to reduce the high rate of incarceration among minorities.

Poppy Harlow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: All right, let's bring back in our Democratic strategists, Hilary Rosen and Donna Brazile.

This inaugural debate is the first real chance for these other Democrats to take on the front-runners and really let people know who they are. So, Hilary, on that note, you know, these three candidates, they really have nowhere to go but up from here. Do you think, in light of that, that makes them a much more sort of dangerous foe on the stage?

ROSEN: Well, as we saw with the Republican debate, you know, people with very low name recognition have two choices in the debate, and this is what they're talking about with their staff as they're preparing for tomorrow night. They can spend all of their time, and they're not going to get a huge amount of time, introducing people to who they are, talking about their positives, encouraging a view of their own candidacy, or they can try and make news by putting down the front-runners. And those are going to be tough decisions.

You know, Lincoln Chafee actually said he was getting into this race to attack Hillary Clinton on Iraq. Iraq is going to be a big subject, this 13-year-old Senate vote, tomorrow night. Hillary Clinton will be, you know, the only candidate up on that stage who originally supported the invasion in Iraq. And I think we're going to see those candidates do some pile-on. But Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, Martin O'Malley, they're going to have to make their own case to voters about who they are and why they should be important. And they'd better not use up all their time trashing Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton.

BROWN: But -

BRAZILE: I agree.

BROWN: Oh, go ahead, Donna. BRAZILE: I think we're going to have an adult - no, we're going to have an adult conversation. We don't have a children's table in the Democratic Party. These are impressive individuals with a record of public service that I think voters would appreciate hearing from them, their ideas. I call Martin O'Malley an undervalued stock. And he can only go up because he has been a governor. He's been a big city mayor. He knows about, you know, crime on the street. He knows about providing jobs and opportunity.

And then Jim Webb, with his impressive record in the military, also in the United States Senate. Look, he opposed - I think he's one of the individuals who opposed the Iran deal. So, in addition to foreign policy, domestic issues, these individuals have impressive records and I think we will offer the American people not just what I call a full buffet, but more entrees and more appetizers than the other party.

[12:30:00] BROWN: Well, let's talk about that. You mention Governor O'Malley. He is an advocate of several gun control measures. Do you think that he's going to try to hit Bernie Sanders on his more moderate gun control views?