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Kevin McCarthy Withdraws from Race for House Speakership; Interview with Congressman Walter Jones; Pentagon Overhauling Program to Train Syrian Rebels; Report: Biden Team Met with DNC This Week. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 9, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] MEGAN AARDAHL, STUDENT NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY: -- from the university. We had group that took a text message alert system, and it pretty much just stated there was a shooting. There's a suspect in custody. But it was at 3:00 a.m. after the fact. So I woke up to texts from my family and my brother and the university all at the same time. So it was kind of chaotic.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's got to be a terrifying way to wake up, Megan.

AARDAHL: Absolutely. You don't expect that in Flagstaff. This is a pretty small town. It's pretty safe. Everyone knows each other. I never thought it would really happen here.

BERMAN: So everyone knows each other. This happened outside the Mountain View resident hall. This is building very corrected to the Greek culture, the fraternities at the campus right now. What goes on inside, outside that building overnight? Any idea who might have been involved in the shooting?

AARDAHL: I have no idea. It is such a busy place. My farm is really, really close. It's popular trafficking. There's apartments everywhere. It is right by the gym so everyone just kind of walks there. I've always felt safe there. I have my head phones in. There's nothing that's ever struck me as being suspicious there. So honestly I never thought it would actually happen. So I really don't know who would actually do something like that around.

BERMAN: It is a big school. You know people I believe who live in or near that building. Have you been able to reach out to all of your friends?

AARDAHL: For being so early in the morning, I have. I've received multiple texts message from people in Mountain View and around Mountain View. I know that may be involved. We've been texting each other in group chats and making sure everyone is safe. There is a huge sense of community here so everyone is trying to reach out and making sure everyone's OK. But still anxious not knowing who's involved.

BERMAN: No doubt it's a good time to check on your friends and to be checked on for sure. Megan, you know, there is this now concerned around the country about safety on campuses. After what happened at that Oregon community college last week, how much discussion has there been about safety on your campus?

AARDAHL: There has been a lot of discussion. I'm actually an education major so I want to become a teacher. So the idea of school shootings and stuff like that is brought up in classrooms because it is really prevalent now. Unfortunately it's scary. But any security is usually topnotch. We have blue light systems on campus. There are people patrolling. It's pretty safe. It hasn't been changed much in Oregon because it's always been such a good safety school but now that this happened I'm sure there will be some drastic changes.

BERMAN: Are guns allowed on campus there?

AARDAHL: They are not. Weapons are not tolerated anywhere on campus.

BERMAN: Megan Aardahl, Northern Arizona University, a junior there just yards away from where that shooting took place overnight, again, the news one person dead, three people injured, the suspect now in custody. Megan we are glad you're OK. Thanks so much for joining us.

AARDAHL: Thank you so much for having me.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So, John, the word of this latest shooting comes as President Obama heads to Oregon today to meet privately with folks affected by the massacre at Umpqua Community College, but not everyone is pleased that the president is coming to town. CNN's Ryan Young is live in Roseburg, Oregon, with that part of story. What's the problem, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. A lot of people are having the conversation openly about the president's visit. In fact some people saying last week's comments that he made just after the shooting hurt them because he was obviously talking about politicizing the event. Some people standing up. In fact in the paper you can see a group called Defend Roseburg. They have over 50,000 likes at this point, and we're told some protesters will be coming from out of town. But not everyone feels the same way about the president's visit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID JACQUES, PUBLISHER: I think the timing of the president's visit was frankly very insensitive to the families and the community as a whole. We were a little hesitant to embrace his visit.

MAYOR LARRY RICH, ROSEBURG, OREGON: We welcome him and we are going treat him with respect and open our arms and appreciate that he is here in our town.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: John, we spent a week in this community. And I can tell you just from talking to people, a lot of people have differing opinions on this. One of things is they wanted to make sure the focus was on the victims, and that seems like it is going to be the focus of the president's visit because he plans to meet with them privately.

BERMAN: Ryan Young for us in Roseburg in Oregon. A lot of emotions there still so raw. All right, Ryan, thanks so much.

Republicans this morning scrambling to fill a leadership void that they really had no idea would be there not even 24 hours ago. The House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who was the heir apparent, the favorite to replace John Boehner as speaker, he just up and withdrew from the race all of a sudden. Some conservatives are celebrating, some members of the House celebrating. Is this the same dynamic that is pushing outsiders, the success of outsiders in the presidential race? CNN's Manu Raju live on Capitol Hill this morning where, Manu, I think all eyes are on one man named Paul Ryan.

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Capitol Hill is still reeling after that really stunning announcement yesterday from Kevin McCarthy that he would not run for speaker, really leaving the Republicans in a state of disarray and panic to some extent. Now attention is shifting to a closed door meeting in just a couple of hours. Republicans will discuss their future today and all eyes will be on one man and whether he will take the speaker's gavel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:14] RAJU: Paul Ryan, the man many Republicans see as if lone lawmaker who can get the House in order.

REP. CHARLIE DENT, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: I know there are a number of folks trying to encourage Paul Ryan to step up, and I think he would be a consensus candidate. Many members of my party I believe would warmly embrace him.

RAJU: Ryan suddenly back in the spotlight after a chaotic day on Capitol Hill. Kevin McCarthy, the Republican frontrunner to replace John Boehner, abruptly pulled out of speaker's race.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R) HOURS MAJORITY LEADER: I don't want to go to the floor and win with 220 votes. I think the best thing for our party right now is to have 247 votes on the floor. If we are going to be strong we have got to be 100 percent united.

RAJU: McCarthy's move blindsiding his colleagues and leaving the fractured Republican Party in disarray. With his budgets aimed at over hauling Medicare, Ryan has quickly become a favorite of the conservative wing of his party. But he's also a prolific fundraiser and close to the party establishment. He appears to have the job locked up only if he wants.

REP. PETER KING, (R) NEW YORK: Somebody in the leadership did tell me they are thinking more and more that Paul might say yes.

RAJU: Sources tell CNN that Ryan has not shut the door to the prospect and he will listen to his colleagues' pitches at today's private GOP meeting. Leaving the capital Wednesday night Ryan refused to rule out a speaker's run, telling CNN this is not the time or place to discuss it. There are still two candidates in the speaker's race. If Ryan doesn't get in the list of candidates is bound to grow. For now Republicans are left grappling with the leadership vacuum just as Congress is about to deal with major fiscal issues.

DENT: It is very easy to be against something. But when you are in the majority and you have been given this great honor and opportunity and responsibility to govern you have to actually advance an agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: OK, so let's bring in now North Carolina congressman, Republican Walter Jones. He wrote a letter to the chair of the Republican conference that may have been the catalyst for Kevin McCarthy's decision. Good morning, congressman.

REP. WALTER JONES, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: Alisyn, good morning. And I hope that words on a letter is not responsible for what's happened.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's talk about this, because some people believe it was Kevin McCarthy's comments on Benghazi. Some people believe it was an inability to wrangle all the different factions together. But some people believe it was your letter that actually got Kevin McCarthy to step down. Do you think that you were at the root of this?

JONES: Alisyn, no, for this reason. I am known as the man who votes his conscience here in Washington. I hope I'm a man of integrity. And I believe sincerely that the American people, whether it be the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, when we are electing leaders to lead that party, that we can ask any question that we want to. And I felt like this was just part of the process to ask the question, do you have anything in your background that could become an issue? And that is all that this was about. And it has nothing do with personalities. In the letter which you've seen I'm sure it talks about the speaker's position, the majority leader's position, and the whip position.

CAMEROTA: I do have the letter right here. Let me read a couple of the excerpts so that people know what we're talking about. You say "I'm asking that any candidate withdraw himself from the leadership election if there are any misdeeds he has committed." You go on to say "Most difficult times have been when Republican leaders step down because of skeletons in their closet." And then you go on to say "We need to be able to represent the will of the people unhindered by potentially embarrassing scandals." Did you know something in particular about Kevin McCarthy?

JONES: No. Not about Mr. McCarthy. This, again, I was here when Newt stepped down. I was here when Bob Livingston stepped down. And then there have been some other things happening in Washington that really had brought this to my mind, that we need some type of process -- in the process, I mean. We should have the ability to have a member running, and asking the conference and really the American people to put them in leadership positions, do you have anything in your closet that could be embarrassing to the conference, to the nation? That is all this was about. CAMEROTA: But when you say congressman that you know of other things

happening in Washington that gave you pause, what were those?

JONES: Well it just, you know, rumors. Not about Mr. McCarthy but other things that have happened. I've been here 20 years. So you could imagine I've heard a lot of rumors, some of them true, some of them not true. But it was just a combination of many things that I've heard over the past two or three years that bothered me.

[08:10:00] And I don't see anything wrong if a Republican in the conference were to ask a person who wants their vote, "do you have anything that could be embarrassing?" If you noted in the letter it said since you have been a member of Congress.

CAMEROTA: So what is your theory, congressman, about why Kevin McCarthy so suddenly stepped down yesterday?

JONES: Well Alisyn, I was really surprised because I was not at the 8:00 or 9:00 candidates' forum. But some of my good friends were. And they told me that when he left the forum that he was upbeat and felt good about it. He knew he would probably not get 218 but he would lead the votes in the conference. And I was as shocked as anyone. All of us were shocked no matter how you felt about the speaker's race.

CAMEROTA: You see congressman, what's so interesting about what you are telling us today about what you have heard over the past couple of years, the rumors that you have heard, and this notion that, you know, you were just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. What does this say about the state of politics, about what politicians private lives are like in Washington? If you are saying that it's taken on such a tawdry nature that you can just throw spaghetti at the wall and see if anybody comes out and has a misdeed?

JONES: Well, again, this is because I believe that the American people should be able to look to Congress. They have no trust for us right now at all. It is about nine percent I think. And if we're going to rebuild that confidence that we've lost, then we need to be able to say we're going to not -- nobody is perfect up here. And I'm not even intending to say that. But my point is if you are going to be a spokesman for the Republican Party, then you need to be able to say that I have done the best I can to live a good life and I'm going to be a good leader because I believe sincerely that the privilege I've got to represent people in Congress is very special.

CAMEROTA: Do you support Paul Ryan for speaker?

JONES: I'm supporting Dan Webster.

CAMEROTA: Tell me why, because as you've heard it said Dan Webster may not have the widespread support. He may not be able to get the more than 200 votes.

JONES: Well, I'll say this to you Alisyn, Washington is a city of money. Decisions and policy are made because who's contributing. And I'm very outspoken on this. Dan Webster has said many times, Alisyn, he says it this way -- principle and power cannot coexist. Dan is a man of principle. We've seen too much power up here. And power means it is controlled by money coming in to influence policy. That's not good for the people. That's not good for the people.

CAMEROTA: And is Paul Ryan not a man of principle.

JONES: I don't know Paul Ryan well enough. I just tell you why I'm supporting Dan Webster.

CAMEROTA: Were you happy McCarthy got out of the race?

JONES: Well, I was not going vote for him. It didn't matter to me if he stayed in the race or not because I was not going to vote for him, and I felt like that it would go to the floor of the House. I didn't think he would have the votes so that it could be won without going to the floor of the House. I know there are 30 or 40 of us that were not going to vote for him.

CAMEROTA: And do you think Daniel Webster has the votes?

JONES: I don't know. This is going to be a very interesting week. Obviously there is chaos right now and we're going to have to see how it works out.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Walter Jones, thanks so much for explaining what was behind your letter. We appreciate you being on NEW DAY.

JONES: Thank you, Alisyn.

BERMAN: Thanks, Alisyn. We have breaking news from the Pentagon this morning. Word that the U.S. military is overhauling its program to train and equip Syrian rebels, a program that suffered setback after setback to say the least. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr with the very latest. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Defense Secretary Ash Carter just concluded a press conference in London a few moments ago revealing that President Obama has now approved a new effort to train and equip Syrian rebels. The program they had, even Carter said he was not satisfied with it.

What we are learning now is there will be an announcement shortly that the U.S. will provide ammunition to about 5,000 members of the so called Syria Arab coalition. These are about 5,000 rebels in northern Syria that have had some success on the battlefield but have been running out of ammunition. U.S. special operations have been working with them and had pressed for weeks to get this decision made.

What about that existing program where the military was forced a couple of weeks ago to say they only had four or five rebels out on the battlefield? That will technically continue. The small groups of people that they have trained the U.S. will continue to support. But there will be a pretty complicated effort to within that coalition we just talked about pull people out of that and give them some additional training in intelligence and communications and try and beef up the capability of the coalition on the battlefield.

[08:15:09] But make no mistakes. The original idea that the U.S. could arm, train, equip and have its own personally backed combat rebel force in Syria is going to be going a massive overhaul. Expect an announcement within the next couple of hours -- Alisyn.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Barbara -- sorry, is this all separate from the CIA trained forces that have been battling Assad and could be targeted right now by the Russian planes?

STARR: Yes, again, John and Alisyn, that's a great question. That's something a lot of people don't really talk about. There are a number of anti-Assad rebel groups in Syria, mainly in northern Syria, in western Syria, that the U.S. intelligence community, the CIA, is quietly backing. They work with them. They have been providing them over the months some training, some support. We are said to presume that's in southern Turkey because the U.S. doesn't go into Syria. That is a very different, a very covert effort.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Barbara. Always good to get information on things people don't like to talk about. Thank you for that.

So, days before the Democratic presidential debate right here on CNN, there is a new clue about whether Biden will run for president. We will break down the intriguing evidence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:06] BERMAN: A new clue this morning that Joe Biden could be taken steps to jump into the presidential race.

Joining us to discuss, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator and professor at Morehouse College.

Marc, let me tell you what this clue is, "The New Yorker" reporting this morning that Biden AIDS went over to the DNC for a meeting. The quote is this. They briefed Biden's aides, the DNC did, on arcane but crucial rules that the vice president would need to know if he decides to run. It was the most significant sign the source had seen to indicate Biden's intention. I think it means he's running, the source said. That reporting from our friend Ryan Lizza.

You don't just go have a meeting with the DNC about the arcane rules of running for president just because, Marc.

CAMEROTA: For fun.

BERMAN: Do you?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, you don't, especially not in October. But this also, to manage everyone's anxieties and expectations and hopes. This also could also be the most significant sign that he is not going run. You see, he could look -- it's true. I mean, you go there because you

are really thinking about being president but you also find out what it takes to get on the ballot in each state. And some states are easy. Others, you need petitions. Others take a long period of time. He hasn't passed the deadline on any of the 50 states, however he is very, very close. So, he could have gone to that meeting and said this is too much. My safe bet, though, and as I said before, he's going to run.

CAMEROTA: Hmm. S.E., read the tea leaves.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't think that Joe Biden would have carried this long flirtation on as long as he had, knowing that all of this anticipation about someone else getting in isn't great for Hillary Clinton frankly.

I don't think he would have done that as long as he had if he really didn't intend to get in.

So, I think everything I'm hearing internally. Folks that I know that are setting up for a run in D.C. for him and everything I'm hearing on the Hill is that he's going to run.

CAMEROTA: Wait, when you say setting up for a run, that means that they are getting -- they are fundraising, they are getting the infrastructure? Their ground --

CUPP: Staff.

CAMEROTA: So that means he's running. I mean, if people are setting up for a run he's running.

CUPP: I definitely know people have been told to prepare for a run. But then again, Joe Biden makes decisions on a daily basis. And anyone that's worked with Joe Biden long enough knows he can change his mind. I mean, he's -- you know, I think the day that Joe Biden decides to tell us that he's running will be the day that he actually decides to run.

BERMAN: Joe Biden makes decisions on a daily basis. Ben Carson says stuff on a daily basis that is sometimes controversial. He did an interview this morning where he was asked -- I don't frankly know where it was about guns or about his comments about arming arm arming Jews in Nazi Germany. That could have stopped the Holocaust.

But he explained that it's the media, it's all of us taking his statements out of context that's the issue here. Let's listen to exactly what he said there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, one of the problems with people and the media is they pick one little thing and they say that that's your philosophy on this, which is a bunch of crap. You know, we are sophisticated individuals and, you know, it is going to be a multifactorial solution to this. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Is the problem that we're misrepresenting, S.E., what Ben Carson is saying?

CUPP: It's all of us. It's not him. It's us.

There is a reason that Ben Carson continually has to explain himself and re-explain himself and re-explain himself.

This is not new. He had to do it after he told Chris Cuomo that going to prison can make you gay. He had to do it after he said a Muslim couldn't be president. I remember -- I've been following Ben Carson for sometime now, and I remember before he began a run he told Glenn Beck, talk to Glenn Beck about the Second Amendment. He said something that really rang badly to a lot of conservatives and he had to sort of clean that up.

So, it's not us. I mean, God forbid we take him at his word and listen and then comment on what he says.

It's not us. It's him. He has not spent a lot of time contemplating these issues like most presidential candidates have. He speaks off the cuff all the time. He thinks that because he's smart in one arena, he's smart enough to handle basically anything that comes his way without all that much contemplation frankly.

So, this is why he's constantly getting into these scenarios where he says the wrong thing and then has to clarify and says that it's all of us that misheard him.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Marc, I sat down with a group of GOP voters in New Hampshire yesterday. They don't think he says the wrong thing. The majority of them think that he is saying what they are thinking in their head. Who doesn't think you should rush the gunman? I mean, that is an answer if you are trapped in a room, they say. And that's just sort of a great answer.

HILL: Absolutely. It is always the answer until you are actually trapped in a room with a gunman. Then it's hit the floor and pray for the best.

But I think he's resonating with a pocket of voters. Those are the voters that form his coalition. Those are the voters that allow him to get to 15 or 18 or maybe if he has a good week, 19 or 20 percent of the GOP base.

The problem is he can't build a wider coalition if people perceive him to be extremist in view, or undeveloped or immature politically, and that's what's beginning to happen.

[08:25:03] S.E. said everything I wanted to say. I mean, I agree with her 100 percent. Donald Trump is going to have the same problem. So, yes, it doesn't offend his base. The problem is he can't expand

his base if he says things about Jews or Nazi Germany or he questions the behavior of people who are this a mass shooting or he says, you know, that you can choose to be gay when you go to prison.

Those won't help him long term and that's what makes people like Jeb Bush and Rand Paul and others -- or excuse me, Marco Rubio, not Rand Paul, feel much more comfortable at the next few months because they know at some point, voters are going to get serious at some point. The only question is, will they eventually run out of field.

CAMEROTA: S.E., Marc, thank you so much for breaking all of this down with us. Great to see you guys.

HILL: Pleasure.

BERMAN: We are just four days away now from the first Democratic debate, the first Democratic debate ever in this election cycle. It is here on CNN. It's a joint CNN/Facebook operation you must watch in October 13th, beginning at 8:30 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

CAMEROTA: Ever in this election cycle.

All right. More news this morning, gosh, it's a show full of news because Bill Cosby will be giving his deposition today in a sexual assault case against him. We are talking with one of his alleged victims. What does she think he will say in this deposition?

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