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Protests Planned Claiming Obama 'Politicizing' Shooting; 1 Dead, 3 Injured in Northern Arizona University Shooting. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired October 9, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RYAN YOUNG, CNN: That hit some people right between the eyes that did not like that. As you can see, the front of the paper, defend Roseburg event. There are people who said they were coming from all around the country to protest the president being here.

[07:00:13] Others here in the community, they say they welcome the president with open arms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID JAQUES, PUBLISHER: I think the timing of the president's visit was, frankly, very insensitive to the families and the community as a whole. We're a little hesitant -- hesitant to embrace his visit.

MAYOR LARRY RICH, ROSEBURG, OREGON: We welcome him and we are going to treat him with respect and open our arms and appreciate that he is here in our town.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: John, one of the things that we've seen throughout this community, though, is someone started making metal state plates here with a heart in the middle, showing their support for this community.

I tell you, being here for almost a week now, talking to the people here, they're nice people but I can tell you, honestly, they want to make sure their rights are maintained. In fact, a lot of people that we talk to say, look, they understand why people are upset. They want to change laws, but here they don't believe they have a gun problem.

In fact, we were looking in the paper just yesterday. And we saw some of the ads in the paper still maintain gun sales. And in fact, gun sales in the area have gone up since the shooting. People say they feel like they need to protect themselves.

BERMAN: Ryan Young for us in Roseburg. Thank you so much.

We are now joined by Arizona Congressman Trent Franks.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. We're just getting word of this shooting at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, your home state. Your reaction, sir?

REP. TRENT FRANKS (R), ARIZONA: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. My first reaction always in these situations, having, you know, two little twins at home and a wife, is just, I am so sorry that people have had to go through this. I just pray God's blessing and comfort upon them. That's my first reaction.

BERMAN: I think that is a universal sentiment this morning, Congressman. So thank you for sharing that. We do share it with you.

There's a discussion all around the country right now about arming students, arming teachers on campus. We don't know the identity of the victims. We don't know the identity of the shooter on this campus. Is this an argument for or against having guns on university campuses?

FRANKS: Well, I understand on this campus, except in rare circumstances, it wasn't allowed to have guns on campus. And I think that one thing you'll see as a pattern in these mass shootings is that the shooters deliberately choose a place where they know that no one can defend themselves, where they know that they don't -- are not going to face someone that's armed.

And I think that's a tragedy, because all through mystery, I suppose, the evil and malevolent people of the world have preferred on our victims.

And I would say this: usually if you look at some of these shootings, the one in Oregon, for instance, that gentleman wasn't -- that evil S.O.B. wasn't stopped until the police were there who had guns. And very few people would say that we should disarm the police. And if that's the case, then it's really not the guns, is it? It's whose hands the gun is in. And...

BERMAN: Well, it could certainly...

FRANKS: Businesses -- we protect our businesses with the guns, our banks, our money. We protect politicians with guns. When it comes to our children, the most precious treasure God ever gives us, we protect them with a little sign that says, "No guns allowed."

BERMAN: Congressman...

FRANKS: And there's a problem there.

BERMAN: Congressman, it could be both, though. It could be the people, and it could be the guns. And I think that's a discussion and debate that's been had again and again over the last several days. I don't want to do it again right now.

Except I think the sentiment that's most universal this morning as we sit here at 7:03 Eastern Time, one week from the shootings in Roseburg is, again, again. And I think the saddest thing that most people will agree on is that I don't think anyone is surprised this morning.

FRANKS: Well, you know, that's an extremely good point. And I think that somehow it should refocus our attention on why these monsters do these things. And it's going to be critically important to do that. Because

otherwise, they'll find some way to do it. Unless we're willing to outlaw pressure cookers, they'll find some mechanism to hurt people. And we have to find out what causes it, whether it's copycats, whether it's, you know, mental illness, whatever it is. But we have to make sure that, No. 1, we can do everything we can to prevent these things.

No. 2, if there are malevolent people out there, that they don't face an unarmed victim all the time.

BERMAN: Congressman, I want to shift gears right now. And again, our concern, our thoughts are with Flagstaff and the Northern Arizona University campus. As we learn more, we'll get you that information right away.

But I want to talk about what's going on right where you are right now, the U.S. Capitol, the House of Representatives. Because there's a sense that it's chaos right now. Yesterday, the stunning announcement from Kevin McCarthy that he will drop out of the race for speaker.

One of the reasons is you. You are part of the Freedom Caucus. House Republicans, some 40 members, who did not want him to reach the speaker's chair, what have you won this morning?

[07:05:04] FRANKS: Well, the truth is, and I know that it's impossible for people to see what really happens in the inner machinations of Congress.

But the truth is that Freedom Caucus wanted to do some things that were, I think, good for the country, and there was no malice on our part towards Kevin McCarthy. I can especially express to you that I have nothing but the greatest respect and affection for Kevin McCarthy.

I think what he did yesterday demonstrated to the whole world that he wants what's best for the country. I don't know whether it was best for the country or not. What I do know is that that was his intention. Statesmanship was on display in his life.

And so to answer your question specifically, there were a lot of dynamics. But you know, the most hidden elephant in the room is the Senate filibuster. It is causing the House caucus to be torn to pieces, because we can't get anything voted on. And then the base out there thinks that Republicans and the Congress are doing nothing.

BERMAN: The Senate filibuster didn't keep you from nominating a speaker yesterday.

FRANKS: The Senate filibuster was the reason that we had a change in leadership in this House.

BERMAN: Because of what John Boehner could not achieve as speaker.

FRANKS: Because he -- he always appeared weak, when really it wasn't weakness on his part. It was the inability to repeal the laws of mathematics. The House passed legislations. Time after time after time after time, they go to the Senate and they say we're not voting on it. You guys are shutting the government down.

BERMAN: Congressman.

FRANKS: The media has not focused on that.

BERMAN: Congressman.

FRANKS: At least that should be part of the debate.

BERMAN: You were saying you were doing this on behalf of the American people. That's the goal of the Freedom Caucus right here.

FRANKS: It is the goal, yes, sir.

BERMAN: The Freedom Caucus is 40 people. It is 40 members of Congress. It's about 30 to 40 members of Congress. There are 247 Republican members of Congress. So it's less than 10 percent of the membership of the House of Representatives, less than 20 percent of the Republican membership.

Is that 10 percent of Congress really speaking for the American people and the other 90 percent not? Whose will are you doing here?

FRANKS: I would be the first to tell you that I think in terms of the issues that we believe in, that 90 percent of the caucus is with us. Maybe there's a difference in how we approach things. But 90 percent of the caucus is with us.

BERMAN: Yesterday that's not the case. McCarthy has a majority. McCarthy clearly had the majority of people willing to nominate him for speaker. So you didn't have the majority with you yesterday.

FRANKS: I think if Mr. McCarthy had gained the nomination, and I think there's a very good chance he would have, you would have seen him supported on the floor. That's my particular opinion. And you know, some of us believe that you do everything you can in the primary to maximize the best you can for what you believe.

And then you do what's right to -- when the general election comes and you get together. And I don't see this as anything unusual. What I do see is that the people are missing entirely the reason for the division and for the change in leadership in the first place. We had honorable leaders.

Unfortunately, they are profoundly unpopular among the Republican base, because the Republican base knows somewhere in the back of their heart, we're losing America and see that the Obama administration has created chaos all over the world. And they're frustrated and want to see something happened.

When we're unable to affect that, then they think it's weakness on our part, when really, we are affecting it. We are passing it in the House, and we never get a vote in the Senate. BERMAN: Paul Ryan, a lot of people want Paul Ryan to throw his hat

into the ring. He said no. Not just no but no way. He said it twice. Would you support Paul Ryan to be the next speaker?

FRANKS: Well, I'm not going to make a pronouncement here on television. I will say to you that I think Paul Ryan would make a great speaker. And people like him are the kinds of people that we need. The truth is, however, the reason that there's such reticence on the part of people in the rank and file to get into leadership, it's because they know they're going to face this same equation as the previous leaders.

BERMAN: You. He's going to face the Freedom Caucus. He's going to face the Freedom Caucus. I think that's one of the reasons he's reluctant to get in. Let me just show you this.

You said people -- people like him are what we need. Do you know who are people like Paul Ryan? Let me show you the book that he wrote. I think we have it here. He wrote "Young Guns" with Eric Cantor and Kevin McCarthy. Eric Cantor is someone who was run out of office in a Republican primary. Kevin McCarthy was the guy who just quit the race yesterday because of the Freedom Caucus. People like Paul Ryan are the ones that you guys ran out.

So is it intellectually consistent to support Paul Ryan?

FRANKS: I have -- I have absolutely the greatest respect for all three of those men that you mentioned. And that's a fact. What you're not understanding here is that the reason that there's such dissension in the House, is because we're trying to gain the traction to overcome this filibuster. There's only two ways we can do it. We either have to change that rule, and that falls on Mr. McConnell primarily.

Or we have to raise the filibuster to such a high degree of visibility that is no longer tenable to abuse it, as Senate Democrats have done. And that creates a lot of effort to create the pressure in the House. And that's what's tearing us apart.

BERMAN: Congressman...

FRANKS: I know -- I know that maybe you'll look at that in the future...

BERMAN: No, no.

[07:10:12] FRANKS: There's not much disagreement here as it may sound.

BERMAN: Congressman Trent Franks, I am completely willing to accept the notion that there's dysfunction in the Senate, as well. I don't think the only place it exists is the House of Representatives, Sara. Thank you so much for being with us.

FRANKS: I appreciate you having me on. It's been a good interview.

BERMAN: Thanks. Thanks so much.

And we do have breaking news -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, John, back to that breaking story. One person is dead after a shooting on an Arizona campus. Three others are wounded at this hour.

We're joined now on the phone by Cindy Brown. She's a spokesperson for Northern Arizona University. Ms. Brown, thanks so much for being with us. Can you tell us what happened at your school this morning?

CINDY BROWN, SPOKESPERSON, NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY (via phone): Good morning, Alisyn. Well, as you can imagine, the details are still emerging and our police department is working with the local police department in Flagstaff to continue their investigation.

So I can confirm that there was a shooting on our campus this morning. There is one victim, three are being treated at our local medical center, and the shooter is in custody.

CAMEROTA: We understand that the first call went in to police at 1:20 a.m. local time. And that if you -- correct me if I'm wrong, this happened in a dormitory. What else can you tell us about the details of what happened overnight?

BROWN: Actually the incident took place in a parking lot adjacent to our Mountain View Residence hall on the northeast side of campus. And that it's correct, the -- call came in at 1:20 a.m. that shots were fired.

CAMEROTA: As you said, there were three victims. Were they all students?

BROWN: There actually were four victims. There is one victim who is deceased and three victims are currently being treated at the Flagstaff Medical Center.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for that. And were they all students?

BROWN: I don't have the identity of any of the victims or the shooter at this time.

CAMEROTA: Do you know if the shooter was a student?

BROWN: I don't know that yet, no.

CAMEROTA: Do you know how it came to pass that the shooter was taken into custody?

BROWN: I -- actually, I don't have the details on that yet either. I'm sorry.

CAMEROTA: Do you -- can you tell us about what security is like at your school? Was campus security engaged in this? Is your school, as we've learned so much about since the tragedy in Oregon a week ago, also a gun-free zone? BROWN: Our university campus is a gun-free zone. We have a fully

accredited police department on our campus.

CAMEROTA: Do you know what the condition of the victims who are in the hospital is?

BROWN: I don't at this time. I'm actually waiting for updates on the conditions of the victims. We will be holding a press conference at 6 a.m. Arizona Time.

CAMEROTA: OK. So at 6 a.m. this time, and will it be campus police? Will they have more information? Or is it the local -- the local Arizona police?

BROWN: We expect our police department will be able to release more details during that press conference, and they will be working with the Flagstaff Police Department, as well.

CAMEROTA: Cindy, what's happening with the other students? Have all of the other students on your campus -- we understand there are 20,000 students that go to Northern Arizona University, even the Flagstaff campus, I believe. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Are they -- were they all sent an alert? What's happening?

BROWN: Yes. We do have 20,000 students on our Flagstaff campus, and we did send out multiple alerts via text. And we also sent out alerts via social media.

CAMEROTA: And what did those alerts tell people to do?

BROWN: The alert notified the subscribers that there was an active shooter incident, and there were updates subsequently sent out to let them know the location that they needed to avoid and when the shooter was in custody.

CAMEROTA: We can only imagine, Cindy, how upsetting that was to all the students, how scary it is to get an alert in the middle of the night telling people that there's an active shooter. Where were you when you got word of this?

BROWN: Like many people, I was asleep. But, of course, this is a very upsetting thing for anyone to receive in the middle of the night. And honestly, our thoughts are with the families of the victims right now.

CAMEROTA: As are ours. Cindy Brown, you're a spokesperson for the university there. We will wait for that press conference. It will happen at 9 Eastern, 6 a.m. your local time. Thank you for the information this morning.

BERMAN: Information still coming in on that story.

Meanwhile, fire smoldering from explosion at a natural gas plan in Gibson, Louisiana. The blast killed three workers, wounded four. The gas was not pulling (ph) at the time, and the cause is under investigation. CAMEROTA: [07:15:03] It won't bring him back, of course, but Walter

Scott's brother says the family's $6.5 million settlement with the city of North Charleston, South Carolina, ensures that he did not die in vain. Scott was shot multiple times by Police Officer Michael Slager. The video shows the unarmed black man running from the white officer. Slager is being held without bond on a murder charge.

BERMAN: All right. We're going to have much more on the chaos within the Republican Party. It's not just in the House of Representatives. How is that connected to the race for the White House? We'll break it all down and bring you the new information this morning, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to just start by saying, you know, Kevin McCarthy is out. You know that, right? And they're giving me a lot of credit for that, because I said you really need somebody very, very tough and very smart. You know, smart goes with tough, not just tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump, taking some credit for Congressman Kevin McCarthy's decision to -- I just get a look from John Berman.

BERMAN: Smart does go with tough. You can't argue. Tough and smart are very important.

CAMEROTA: I might be able to argue that. But in an event, that was Trump taking credit for Kevin McCarthy's decision.

But what was behind this stunning move, and where does that leave all of the work that needs to be done in Congress?

Joining us this morning, CNN political commentator and Republican consultant Margaret Hoover; and CNN political analyst and editor in chief at "The Daily Beast," John Avlon.

Great to have both of you, particularly Margaret. Because you were behind closed doors with all these Republican donors yesterday as all this was unfolding. So tell us what was going on behind the scenes?

[07:20:12] MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Everybody wants and believes, it's not just -- I mean, it's everybody in the Republican universe knows that Paul Ryan is the only man -- I'm going to take a line from "Braveheart," unite the clans. He's the only guy who can actually do it, and he doesn't want the job. It's sort of a very sort of Moses duty, right?

He doesn't want it. He's said he doesn't want it. He preemptively tried to stay back the tidal wave that is coming at him, and he can't do it. If there's one argument that appeals to Paul Ryan more than anything else, it is country and duty over self. And that is the one play, I think, that can do it. So my understanding is that, by the end of the day, you know, he had to take some time to consider it. BERMAN: One of the reasons he doesn't want to use it, to use a

"Braveheart" reference, because everyone who's been in that job has had their entrails ripped out and lifted to the sky. John.

HOOVER: Unless you would have a life beyond politics. And this could be the most liberating thing for Paul Ryan if he does really seriously consider this.

He could say, OK, fine, I'll do this for my country, but I'm going to quit in 2016. And so then he's liberated from having to run, from any coups that could happen from the far right. You could put together coalitions with some Democrats if he needed to. I mean, nothing is more liberating than not wanting the job you have for a short period of time.

CAMEROTA: Well, there you go. Margaret just spelled out the situation, John. Despite your raised eyebrows.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Listen, Margaret explains it all is a good theme in life.

HOOVER: Says my husband.

AVLON: In this rare -- rare occasion, I agree with her that Paul Ryan is uniquely positioned to be able to kind of bridge all the various constituencies.

But absent Paul Ryan, I mean, let's be clear what happened yesterday is a well-ordered sort of march to the speakership turned into a giant, blazing Dumpster fire. And the reason is that the factions that our Founding Fathers warned us about are consuming the GOP. Take a look at the folks who rose in the wake of the 2010 Tea Party resolution. Take a look at the cover of "Young Guns." Cantor, out. McCarthy, out. Ryan, last man standing. Boehner, out. I mean, look at all these people. And they've been cannibalized by their own party.

So you've got a real problem. Only Paul Ryan, I think, can for the good of his party and, by extension, because they control the house, the nation, unite this disparate set of factors. Otherwise it's warlord-ism down forever.

BERMAN: There's something going on here, and it's not just in the House. I mean, the establishment of the Republican Party, the establishment wing, they're not doing so great right now. And you know, they don't like the fact that Donald Trump is leading in the polls, that Ben Carson is second, that Carly Fiorina is up there, as well.

Let me read you from Karen Tumulty in "The Washington Post" today. She says less than a year after a sweeping electoral triumph, Republicans are on the verge of seizing dysfunction as a national political party.

Margaret, is it that dire? HOOVER: I make jokes all the time about that going the way of the

Whigs. I mean, if Paul Ryan really wants to save the party. But the Whigs were this outdated party that -- OK, just to reference you back to 19th Century -- early 19th Century, political history.

There is some truth to this total chaos. I mean, there truly is a lack of faith in the ability of Republicans to do anything. Again, mostly it's over tactics. You heard Trent Franks say that we mostly believe the same things we just believe we can't give in anymore.

But you also heard Trent Franks say he'd really like Speaker Ryan. But how does Paul Ryan wrangle the Freedom Caucus?

CAMEROTA: They respect him already.

AVLON: He has real credibility when it comes on fiscal issues, but he's a responsible human being. I think part of the problem is the way we talk about politics and the current Republican problems and fracturing.

The establishment is really a misnomer. You're talking about, you know, radicals versus reformers. And there are people who are interested in governing, and there are people who are interested in grandstanding. And they're happy to watch them burn it all down if it makes them feel ideologically pure.

That problem is, is that that has become the base, incited by a couple of demagogues and people who are quick to sell-congratulate, like Donald Trump who would take credit for the Cubs getting into the playoffs, if it hasn't occurred to him yet already. So -- but you've got to just -- the reality check here isn't that the establishment is somehow under attacked. The reality check is that the party is being cannibalized by its own worse impulses that they have encouraged for short-term political power.

BERMAN: Is this a Republican thing, or is this an American thing right now, Margaret? Because next Tuesday night, the CNN debate, first Democratic debate, and Hillary Clinton will be on that stage. And Bernie Sanders is sort of from a very different part of the party and playing on very different themes. Will it seep onto that stage?

HOOVER: Well, thematically, there are some consistencies between the outrage on the right and the outrage on the left. I mean, there -- you do see the Bermentum, right, Bernie-mentum. I think you see even there is a little bit -- there is an insurgency on both the right and left that is sick of the people who are -- who have been in power and who've been around for a long time.

[07:25:00] CAMEROTA: You know, yesterday, I sat down with Saint Anselm College (ph). You know it well. It always comes to the fore during these political election seasons. And we had a panel of Republican and Democratic voters.

And basically what the Republicans said is that they feel that candidates have promised them up one side and down the next, all of these promises that they then break when they get to Congress. And so that's why they believe -- they believe in people like Ben

Carson who will fulfill, they believe, his promises. Let me play for you how people feel about Ben Carson and what he said about the victims of the Oregon massacre and that they should have rushed the gunman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA STEVENS, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER: I think at the time it was an insensitive comment to make. And I also think that you really don't know how you're going to react until you're in that situation. So it's difficult to put yourself in the shoes of those people who are really in a crisis moment.

BILL BEAUREGARD, CARLY FIORINA SUPPORTER: Who knows what's going through people's minds when such a terrible event occurs. And I think Dr. Carson spoke from his heart and felt what he said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Just to give you a little more context, she was the only one -- the first woman you heard from, she was the only one of the six who said that she felt that it was insensitive. The others said, you do wish that you could rush the gunman. That is the right thing to do. That is what we should do. He's a doctor. Of course, he rushes toward danger.

AVLON: Look, rushing toward danger generally is what firemen and law enforcement folks do. And what folks in law enforcement will tell you is that, in a mass shooting, that trying to rush a gunman individually is not the smartest course of action. We have a lot of "let's roll" mythology in this country. Currently, in the case of Flight 93. That was an act of massive courage. And it was obviously reality based that ended up saving the Capitol, possibly.

HOOVER: The servicemen in Europe who charged the guy on a train in France.

AVLON: But my point is that when there was a focus on, actually the problem is, we need more guns. That's the solution to the problem of increased mass shootings in America, as Trent Franks told you earlier. When people say, you know, really, by implication, the victims of the shooting were really victims, because they didn't play offense enough. If we're going to elevate feelings over facts and play to base moments, we're actually dumbing down the debate in this country.

HOOVER: As you have pointed out before, there was somebody who rushed the gunman. That was heroic. And we should prize heroism. And if Ben Carson wants to think that he would have been a hero, too, that's fine. It may be a little intensive. This is why he's never been a candidate before. He says things that trip him up all the time.

Look, the people who support Ben Carson are going to still support Ben Carson. That's not going to turn them off. It's the same as the Trump people. This is narrow and very intense faction of people who aren't going to change their minds. The issue is you have to win a majority of Americans. And a majority

of Americans think that was insensitive. So we've got to grow his support beyond his base.

BERMAN: If people have learned anything over the past 24 hours right now, though, it's about a majority of Americans. It's about a committed minority. Margaret and John...

AVLON: That's the problem.

BERMAN: ... great to have you here with us.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, guys. Have a great weekend.

We are just four days away from the first Democratic debate hosted by CNN and Facebook. Be sure to watch, October 13, 8:30 p.m. right here on CNN.

BERMAN: All right. Frightening new statements by FBI director James Comey. Dozens of Americans are in contact with ISIS online. How can the United States stop cyber recruitment? We're going to discuss, next.

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