Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Carson Doubles Down on Oregon Massacre Comments; Anxiety & Floodwaters Rise in South Carolina; Clinton and Sanders: How Different Are They?; Oregon Shooter Attempted Suicide in the Army. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 8, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[06:30:01] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Accidents happen in war. That's the problem with bombing.

VLADIMIR POZNER, RUSSIAN JOURNALIST AND TV PERSONALITY: Sure. They flew twice. They're very close to the Turkish border. I don't think it's a provocation at all.

Russia wants to have good relations with Turkey for a whole lot of reasons, including economic, and for building gas pipelines in Turkey. It has no interest in worsening relations with Turkey. I think that was just a mistake, as other mistakes have happened.

And I do think that in fact -- I believe so, that Mr. Putin would like to work with the United States, rather than against it. Whether or not that's going to happen, I don't think depends only on Mr. Putin.

CUOMO: Mr. Pozner, appreciate your perspective, especially in the rain in Berlin. I look forward to having you back on the show.

POZNER: I'm going to be singing "Singing in the Rain" pretty soon. Thank you very much.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Wait, keep the shot alive. I'd love to see that. It would be fantastic.

All right. We're five days away before the first Democratic debate right here on CNN. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, obviously the big headliners there. How much of a difference between the two candidates? Where they stand on these key issues.

We'll take a look at that ahead on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:21] PEREIRA: Ben Carson not backing down from those controversial comments that he made about the victims of the Oregon college massacre insisting everyone in that classroom should have rushed the gunman instead of sitting back and getting shot. Carson says it's hard to hear, he'd rather see a body riddled with bullet holes than gun control. Critics are blasting the retired neurosurgeon, but he has support of FOX News owner Rupert Murdoch who -- Roger Murdoch, pardon me -- who --

CUOMO: Rupert --

PEREIRA: Rupert, well --

CUOMO: Rupert is what counts.

PEREIRA: Who said that, finally, this could be a real black president.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, anxiety and water levels rising in parts of South Carolina. Flooding expected to get worse in areas near rivers and streams over the next few days, as water flows downstream. The total death toll in Carolinas is also rising to 19. At least 13 dams in South Carolina have failed or been breached. Dozens more are being monitored. More than 400,000 residents still have to boil their water.

CUOMO: Update for you -- two New York City police officers are facing disciplinary action after they tackled and detained former tennis pro James Blake last month. A civilian complaint panel calls this a case of excessive force and abuse of authority and recommends departmental charges. The NYPD says Blake was mistaken for someone else.

CAMEROTA: Really helps to see that video.

Meanwhile, ahead on NEW DAY, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton squaring off in five days in the first Democratic debate on CNN. How different are their positions on key issues? We'll show you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:40:54] CAMEROTA: Just five days away from the first Democratic debate. So, this morning, we are going to take a look at the how the Democratic front-runners, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders differ on some of the key issues.

With us to help, Richard Socarides, Democratic strategist and former senior advisor to President Bill Clinton. Also, Sally Kohn, CNN political commentator and "Daily Beast" columnist. She's never been up this early. She's coming to us from L.A.

Richard is a Hillary supporter and Sally is undecided at the moment, but leans towards Bernie.

So, you guys are fascinating to talk to. Let's talk about the key issues. Let's start with something that has just come up in the past 24 hours.

Trade. Here's what's interesting -- neither one support the TPP, the Trans Pacific Partnership. That's not the interesting part, Richard. What's interesting is that Hillary Clinton used to support it. In fact, CNN has totaled 45 different times that she pushed the same trade bill. What happened in the past 24 hours?

RICHARD SOCARIDES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't think you'd say it's the very same trade bill because the trade bill has just been completed, right? I think that as secretary of state, she was part of the Obama administration and she supported the idea of trying to come up with the trade deal that met certain environmental and job protection standards.

And now, we have the trade deal. And her view is it does not met her very strong test for environmental standards and for job creation.

CAMEROTA: Sally, is that how you see it? Or do you see it as a flip flop?

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: See, those were some impressive verbal gymnastics from Richard.

SOCARIDES: Thank you.

KOHN: You know, she changed her mind. She changed her mind. This is -- you know, the difference is, a lot of issues between Hillary and Bernie is not where they came out on the issues, but how long they've been there. Bernie was clearly against these kinds of trade deals that sort of are, you know, the children of NAFTA, and things that have shipped jobs overseas and hurt our economy and other economies and just been giveaways to big business. He's been consistently against them.

You know, the difference is Hillary buts her finger in the wind and changes her mind. You know, a lot of people see Bernie Sanders as consistently the wind of change himself.

CAMEROTA: OK.

KOHN: That's the difference here.

CAMEROTA: Got it.

Let's get to the economy and see where they differ on the economy. So, both of them support higher taxes on the wealthy. Both of them support raising the federal minimum wage. Bernie's is a little bit higher to $15. Impose accountability on Wall Street, Hillary says, break up big banks.

What's the difference here, Richard?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think both of them are in a good place in terms of creating jobs, in terms of raising the minimum wage, in terms of straining protections against some of the abuses that we've seen on Wall Street. So, I think it may be a difference in tone. It may be a difference in range. I don't know. We'll see.

I mean, I think it's going to be one area where I think there's going to be a very healthy debate.

CAMEROTA: OK. Sally, do you see a difference?

KOHN: Yes, I think most Democratic primary voters who have been paying attention do, too. Again, Bernie Sanders consistently against giveaways to Wall Street. You know, consistently for strong financial reform and accountability. And Hillary Clinton has gone back and forth on this. She was once again a bill that would help big banks. And then she voted for it when she was a senator.

SOCARIDES: Actually, I --

KOHN: The largest donors -- the largest donors in her campaign have been consistently from Wall Street. People see her cozy with Wall Street. That's just her record.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Richard.

SOCARIDES: I think as New York senator she had a long and quite distinguished record in trying to rein in Wall Street, with very specific pieces of legislation, about restricting abuses by hedge funds and so forth.

CAMEROTA: OK.

SOCARIDES: I mean, I would put her record against anybody's in terms of Wall Street abuse.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's get to the topic on so many people's minds this week and that is gun control. And what to do about gun violence. They both support background checks and closing loopholes at gun shows. They both want to reinstate the assault weapons ban.

Here's where they deliver. Hillary says to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce and Arms Act. What that means is that victims would be able to sue gun manufacturers. Bernie Sanders says no.

Sally, let me start with you this time. Do you think that this is something that she will be able to go after him after about at the debate?

[06:45:04] KOHN: Yes, and she should. She should before the Oregon shooting and she certainly should now.

This is one thing that some voters know about Bernie Sanders but don't, and should give everyone pause. He's from a very pro-gun state. He has a very strong record in challenging, questioning, or not supporting common sense gun laws. And Hillary Clinton has a strong record in fact supporting commonsense gun reform.

So, this is the point where she is with the majority of Democratic voters, not to mention the majority of Americans.

CAMEROTA: OK.

KOHN: She should hammer him on this.

CAMEROTA: Richard, is that how you see it playing out? SOCARIDES: Well, I don't know if anybody is going to be hammering anybody. I think we're going to have a very healthy debate as we Democrats do. I mean, certainly -- certainly, no one in this debate is going to say anything about rushing the attacker, right?

But Hillary obviously feels very passionate about this. She's been a long time advocate for gun control. She supports the measure that Senator Sanders does not, that would allow people to go after manufacturers. It is time. It is way past time, that we've got guns out of the hands of these criminals and of these crazy people. I think if Hillary is elected president, that will be a big priority.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's talk about Syria, because here is a point where there are true points of distinction between these two candidates. Hillary supports training Syrian rebels to fight ISIS. Bernie Sanders opposes training the rebels. Hillary supports the no fly zone over Syria. He opposes a no fly zone. She breaks with Obama administration now on the strategy in Syria. He supports the Obama administration strategy in Syria.

How do you think this is going to play out, Richard?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think that -- certainly, Hillary Clinton supports a very robust and engaged foreign policy. And I think that's reflective -- you know, that's reflective of her time as secretary of state. I think Senator Sanders supports perhaps a more limited intervention in the world and a focus elsewhere. And it will be an important distinction between them. And I think a distinction that will be important to many voters and that will be on display.

CAMEROTA: OK, last word, Sally.

KOHN: I mean, again, this goes to not just where they are now but were they were. Bernie Sanders consistently against the Iraq war and other reckless and irresponsible American interventions.

And Hillary Clinton was for it. And then when other people were against it, she's against it. I think that temperament, and the fact that she is consistently pretty hawkish is what's hurting her with Democratic primary voters, among other things.

CAMEROTA: Sally, Richard, thanks so much for breaking it down. It will be fascinating to watch how it all plays out Tuesday night at the debate.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right. New details are emerging about the Oregon college shooter. He was discharged from the Army because of a suicide attempt. Were there warning signs missed about this gun?

The head of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:57] PEREIRA: We are learning more about the Oregon massacre gunman this morning. Law enforcement officials say he attempted suicide in 2008 while in the Army. This tragedy has renewed a heated gun control debate.

We want to bring in Dan Gross. He's president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Here we are again.

DAN GROSS, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: Here we are.

PEREIRA: We're talking about it again. We learned some new details that we just mentioned. This suicide attempt by the gunman in the Oregon massacre in 2008, discharged from the Army. Yet, he was able to legally obtain some 14 firearms.

Do you believe that stricter laws could have prevented him from getting his hands on these guns? Or he would have found a way to them eventually?

GROSS: We don't know the details specifically of the case.

(CROSSTALK)

GROSS: What we know is every single day in this country, 89 people are killed with guns and there's so much more that we can do to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons, domestic abusers, the dangerous and mentally ill. And the big solution is background checks. Background checks are so effective. They just don't apply to gun shows and online gun sales.

PEREIRA: You've got the support of the American public. Let me pull up our polling, 90 percent of Americans favor background checks. We have talked about this before here. You think, though, that this now a tipping point. The conversation has reached a fever pitch?

GROSS: I think we're so clearly in the middle of a tipping point. First of all, you're starting to see that voice of the American public reflected in real progress in the states, since the terrible tragedy in Sandy Hook, six states have expanded Brady background checks to all gun sales. Those states are safer as a result.

Hillary Clinton just announced that gun violence and gun violence prevention is a major part of her platform. Four years ago, that would have been unthinkable that a major presidential candidate would do that.

You know, the American public has had enough. And this time, you really get a sense that it's not just shock. It's not just horror. It's not just grief. It's real outrage. And we're ready to hold our elected leaders accountable.

PEREIRA: But I want to show you something that is interesting that we're seeing happen to. In Oregon, the "The New York Times" is reporting that many in Oregon are bristling at these calls for stricter gun laws. And you can understand the concern there. That's a state and community in pain and in fear and in frustration. GROSS: Yes.

PEREIRA: And mourning the loss of their community citizens.

What's your message, though, to the people, when they hear gun laws, gun control? What do you say to them who are so concerned about this infringing on their Second Amendment rights?

GROSS: That it doesn't. I'm talking about one specific thing which is background checks.

PEREIRA: How can we make that clear, though? Because I think that message is getting lost in the noise.

GROSS: Through conversations like this. We are only talking about keeping guns out of the hands of people that we all agree shouldn't have them -- convicted felons, domestic abusers, the dangerously mentally ill. I think we need to challenge our politicians and our political candidates when they stand up and say, I'm against, quote, "gun control" because I'm for the Second Amendment, saying where does supporting background checks and supporting the Second Amendment conflict with itself? Because it doesn't.

PEREIRA: I want to show you somewhere else that we're seeing gun violence increasing and I think this story, there's no sense to be made of it.

[06:55:03] In Tennessee, an 11-year-old shot and killed his 8-year-old neighbor. What more needs to be done to make sure that there is not ease of access even? Obviously, to me, this feels like a storage issue, a gun safety issue, et cetera, there were other things at play here. But an 11-year-old getting their hands on a gun?

GROSS: It really all comes down to the same message, which is keeping guns out of the wrong hands. There are policies that can do it. Keeping the hands out of prohibitive purchasers, and then parents have to take responsibility.

It actually relates to school shootings. You know, in two-thirds of the school shootings, the gun comes from the home of the attacker, a friend or a relative. It actually seems to have been true in this shooting. It was certainly true in terms of Sandy Hook.

So, parents, very often, are the first line of defense, even when it comes to school shootings and the nine kids in our country that are shot unintentionally every single day. And almost all of those are with parents' guns. So, parents need to take responsibility as well. We need a new conversation that's not based on the fear and paranoia of the corporate gun law.

PEREIRA: Well, that's my biggest concern, because we saw what "People" magazine did with putting all of the names of the lawmakers and their phone numbers out. We know that citizens and voters and lawmakers are upset about seeing nine more people buried because of gun violence like this. It's so dividing. It is so divisive.

People who are smart and safe gun owners want to know they can still have their rights.

GROSS: And what we need people to realize is you can have your rights and there's a lot that we can do to prevent the 89 people that are buried every single day. The only place where this is a controversial issue is in Congress and in state houses.

The American public knows, you said, 90 percent of the American public supports background checks. According to surveys, that's more than baseball and kittens. There is no controversy and people are dying every single day in our country as a result. We need our elected leaders to step up. We need to close the disconnect between what the American public wants, what's costing lives every day and what our elected leaders are doing about it.

PEREIRA: Dan Gross, thanks for being here. Thanks for bringing your fashion to us.

GROSS: Thanks, Michaela.

PEREIRA: So, you can get in on the conversation. I know you're passionate about it as well. You can tweet us using the #NewDayCNN. And, of course, jump on to Facebook. You can leave your comments there.

We're following a lot of news as usual this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not stand there and let him shoot me.

CUOMO: Dr. Ben Carson said everyone should have attacked the shooter instead of sitting back and getting killed in the Oregon shooting.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought Ben Carson was treated, frankly, I thought he was treated very unfairly.

CARSON: The shooter can only shoot one person at a time.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've learned a lot about trade agreements. Sometimes, they look great on paper.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking President Obama, opposing his signature trade agreement.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These are issues that I've had a very strong opinion on from day one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. Coast Guard will not be going out on search and rescue efforts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Decision to end the search, suspend a search is painful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want him back. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all do. Yes.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Ben Carson is not backing down, he's doubling down on what to do if confronted by a gunman with an arsenal of weapons. Carson claims if he were in that Oregon classroom, he would have rallied everyone to attack the gunman.

He insists he'd rather see a bullet riddled body than gun control.

CUOMO: Carson says the statements are meant as criticism by a teenager whose life was spared by the shooter says Carson is out of line. Interestingly, Donald Trump and now media mogul Rupert Murdoch are coming to his defense. Murdoch is a controller of FOX News and "The Wall Street Journal" among other outlets, and he tweets Carson could be, quote, "a real black president."

There's a lot going on. And CNN has it all covered.

Let's start with Athena Jones live from Des Moines, Iowa.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

There is a lot going on. And that Murdoch tweet is raising a lot of eyebrows. When it comes to Ben Carson, part of his appeal, voters say is that he's not a politician, he says what he thinks he doesn't worry about political correctness. The question now is whether his latest comments will begin to damage that appeal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARSON: I want to plant in people's minds what to do in a situation like this.

JONES (voice-over): Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson just can't seem to shake the firestorm he ignited. On Wednesday, Carson doubling down on controversial comments he made about last week's Oregon campus massacre.

CARSON: From the indications that I got, they did not rush the shooter. The shooter can only shoot one person at a time. He cannot shoot a whole group of people.

JONES: Now, a survivor of the shooting has responded, telling CNN, quote, "I'm fairly upset he said that. Nobody could truly understand what actions they would take like that in a situation unless they lived it."