Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Police to Investigate Oregon Shooter's Blog Posts; Pushing for Gun Control? Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 2, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:56] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That's Andy Parker, the father of slain journalist Alison Parker, lashing out at Homeland Security Chairman Rep. Michael McCaul after McCaul said on CNN that this country had a mental illness problem and not a gun problem.

As investigators try to determine if anyone else may have known about the killer's plans, they're focusing in on blog posts that may have been written by the gunman. One portion praised the killer of those two journalists, including Andy Parker's daughter, Alison.

The post reads, quote, "A man who was known by no one is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet all in the course of one day. It seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight," end quote.

Let's talk about this with "LEGAL VIEW" host Ashleigh Banfield. She's live in Roseburg, Oregon; and Edward Stroz (ph) who helped form the FBI's computer crime task force in New York City. Welcome to you both.

EDWARD STROZ: Thank you.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Ashleigh -- I want to start with you. What are you hearing from investigators about those blog posts?

BANFIELD: The problem is that blog posts are blog posts. They are freedom of speech. There was no direct threat made in any of these affirmations of awful people.

And there's a lot of that on the Internet. You can go on right now and pretty much find that in just a couple of key strokes. It doesn't mean that there is any culpability for anybody who read it and didn't report it or for anybody who joined and celebrated along with this killer.

But the bigger investigation, I think, and you can probably see some of this behind me, Carol, is this crime scene that doesn't look like a crime scene. It's just -- it's an environment that was so uninviting of this kind of horror show yesterday.

But what you're not seeing is about an eighth of a mile up, there's a forensics team that is collecting just about every bit that it can from this scene despite the fact that we don't have someone to prosecute here. That doesn't mean that the investigation isn't spider veining out to find out if there were any collaborators or anyone else potentially involved, and then there are the issues of the weapons and the ammunition and the body armor and how this killer got his hands on those things.

So those things will be in full force, even though you can't see them necessarily right behind me.

COSTELLO: Understand. So, Edward, the FBI will be examining those blog posts. What specifically will they be looking for?

STROZ: Well, the blog posts can be very important for indicating state of mind. Not only about this instance but also in looking at it from a research perspective. When you have a disaster like this, what were the leading indicators that might have led up to it? How do they compare to other cases where similar things occurred? Kind of patterns and how can we refine the science?

One of the areas that's very key is psycholinguistics, analyzing the linguistic characteristics as a reflection of state of mind for this person and for others, which can be quite telling.

COSTELLO: I mean the FBI doesn't go through everybody's blog posts, right? I mean it couldn't possibly have uncovered the blog posts from this man.

STROZ: The FBI does not go through all blog posts, but we are moving into an area where you're talking about big data. And increasingly people are saying, well of all the information out there, how much of it can be analyzed for a purpose? Very often that's in the context of marketing but it can have investigative value.

And I think if information is in the public domain, sometimes society expects that there will be a certain amount of due diligence and investigative research to look for those kinds of things. And it still depends on the public a lot. If they see -- if a member of the public reads something that is troubling, better to call law enforcement and have a discussion than just assume they know about it.

COSTELLO: But people aren't required to do that.

STROZ: People are not required. And I don't think we want to move in that direction. But, you know, in New York we have something -- see something, say something. It doesn't just pertain to things on a subway platform, I think it even pertains to things that are online because it could be a telling indication of a problem.

COSTELLO: And Ashleigh, just another question because I know that the investigation is going on right behind you. What do we know -- I don't want to say the killer's name -- but what do we know so far about him? We know he used, what, four weapons? What were they?

BANFIELD: So, three handguns, and he was able to reload, according to one of the witness accounts -- one long arm, although they're not identifying exactly what kind of a long arm was found at the scene. And the investigators say that he was loaded for bear. That he was ready to do battle for quite some time.

They also said that there were two officers that were valiant and were able to intercede, although it's not been confirmed whether this killer was felled by his own bullets or by the police bullets, but he knew what he was going to do. And he had body armor to go along for this ride, too.

But for the fact that it ended when it did, this might have been a much higher body count. And again, I cannot tell you whether it was the police that ended the slaughter or if it was the killer who finally put an end to his heinous deeds.

COSTELLO: All right. Ashleigh Banfield reporting live for us. Edward Stroz -- thanks so much for coming in. I appreciate it.

[10:34:58] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the reaction from Washington over the shootings in Oregon was swift and clear. Will anger and frustration from the President though lead to change?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: President Obama notably frustrated as he addressed the nation last night. That's because since he's taken office, last night -- it marked the 15th time he's addressed the nation following a mass shooting. Will the White House really try to go for more gun laws again? Fight for gun control? Who knows?

[10:40:04] Joining me now to talk about that is senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Good morning -- Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol. And when you talk to White House officials here, you know, they're not saying yet whether or not President Obama will be pushing for more gun control legislation.

They tried this back in 2013. You'll recall, Carol -- you covered this. The Manchin/Toomey amendment would have created universal background checks in this country, closed the gun show loophole and it lost by a handful of votes in the Senate and a few of those votes going against the President came from red state Democrats and so the President couldn't get his own party at least not his entire party behind that piece of legislation.

And since then the White House has just really gone silent on this. They've talked about it, the President's come out and talked about it. But in terms of pushing legislative action up on Capitol Hill, they just don't think it's going to happen. They look at the political climate. Republicans controlling the House and the Senate, they just don't see it as being possible.

But something changed yesterday, Carol. It was striking to hear the President say we need to politicize this. And I think that opens up the question, will the President seek to go out and try to marshal up some sort of legislation up on Capitol Hill for a show? Just to see if they could get Republicans to call it up for a vote. Now that might be far-fetched. It might be that the President and Democrats would like to see this get infused in the upcoming political campaign but it is an interesting question that's been raised.

And Carol, the thing that I sense more than anything after covering this president for a few years now and being out here as part of that routine of covering what the President has to say after these events is that the political shift seems to be happening inside the Democratic Party.

They used to be afraid to talk about gun control. They used to think it was a losing issue, that it would cost them votes in swing states. Now you have people like Hillary Clinton tweeting as she did yesterday afternoon that it's time to go after gun control.

You know, this is not something you would have seen Barack Obama do back in 2008. And if you had that tweet, you can put it up on screen. It's pretty striking to see Hillary Clinton do this. She's done this a number of times now. She says, "Another devastating shooting. We need sensible gun control measures to save lives and I will do everything I can to achieve that."

And so the question becomes now, Carol, now what does the White House want to do about this? Do they seek legislation? Do they try to perhaps force Republicans to really, you know, put up or shut up on this issue? And does this become a big part of the next political campaign.

Having said all that, Carol, and you know this, after going through this a couple of times, in the last couple of years, whenever one of these big incidents happen, we have this conversation for about 48 hours and then it goes away.

You talk to people inside the White House. Privately they acknowledge that. But you got the sense yesterday, when the President was angrily denouncing this sort of routine pattern that we're in, seeing these every couple weeks, that maybe this time it will change and maybe he'll get more forcefully behind this issue once again -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You know, I'm just thinking back, Jim. And we've been talking about gun control laws forever, President Reagan back in 1991, he was speaking to a crowded George Washington University. It was ten years after he himself was shot and he was pushing for the Brady Bill. And I just want to read you a bit of what he said in that speech.

He said "With the right to bear arms comes a great responsibility to use caution and common sense on handgun purchases. And it's just plain common sense that there be a waiting period to allow local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on those who wish to purchase handguns. And as you know, Jim, the Brady Bill was passed, but it's not as strong as it once was.

ACOSTA: No, that's right. And keep in mind every day we go into the White House briefing room, it is the James Brady briefing room, named after Press Secretary James Brady who recently died, you know, so many years after he took a bullet for Ronald Reagan.

The power of the National Rifle Association is such in Washington that lawmakers run in fear of the gun lobby. They dare not cross the gun lobby because they just (AUDIO GAP) of what happens in the next political cycle. That has been sort of the calculus on the Democratic Party's side, but things seem to be changing.

And you know, Carol, I think it's quite striking. You know, when you go through these incidents and look at the cumulative effect, the President has had to come out and speak out on this some 15 time. Every time he comes out, you know, he gets more and more strident on this issue. He called for a vote.

Remember, back after the Newtown tragedy, he called for a vote in congress. And Gabby Giffords, who was almost assassinated, the former congresswoman was sitting there in the gallery. And it just seems that, you know, the more this piles up in the nation's consciousness that perhaps things might change. But it's just unclear at this point whether or not Democrats can make this happen and whether Republicans might want to start going along with this.

But it does seem the political climate is changing. Just how quickly we just don't know yet.

[10:45:03] COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta reporting live from the White House -- thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the deadly shooting in Oregon happened on a campus that's supposed to be a gun-free zone.

Coming up next, I'll talk to a college professor who says he and his colleagues are easy targets for shooters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Umpqua Community College has a no guns policy -- even the security guards are unarmed, although Oregon State law allows people to carry concealed weapons even on college campuses but not inside the buildings. A little confusing, right? Let's talk about campus security and how it all should go down.

[10:50:02] With me now is David Perry, he's a history professor at Dominican University and recently wrote an op-ed for CNN.com about the vulnerability of college campuses.

Welcome and thank you for being here.

DAVID PERRY, DOMINICAN UNIVERSITY: Thank you for having me -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Your university just held an active shooter drill. What is that?

PERRY: Well, we're going -- we're actually doing it next week. It's where we send out alarms though we're going to tell people it's a drill. We don't want to cause panic. In which we say we have an active shooter on campus here's what you're supposed to do. And then we observe to see if everyone does the right things.

There are different responses for different people in different places. Whether you shelter in place or try to move to a safe space, but that's common. And it's the first one. And we're all a little nervous about it.

COSTELLO: Yes, because it just -- I don't know. That would make me a little nervous, too, I think. I know that your campus does not allow students or professors to carry guns. Does that bother you?

PERRY: It does not bother me. A college campus is, to me, a very special place. And we have to try to keep gun violence from permeating these sacred spaces that matter so much to us. We can't turn America into an armed camp.

COSTELLO: You know, a lot of people would say that's very Pollyanna of you, that there should at least be an armed security guard on campus or armed police officers. What about that?

PERRY: Well, I mean I think we see from Oregon that the police got there very quickly and that having trained people who know how to respond quickly to active shooter events is absolutely important. I'm grateful for our local police and the training that we're all doing as a community. It really matters.

But the solution to mass shootings is not to have more people with firearms. That's not what stops mass shootings. We stop mass shootings in two ways. One, people do wrestle shooters to the ground, as we saw in France, adding more firearms is not the right answer. But also we stop mass shootings by rolling back our gun culture and imposing sensible gun control laws.

COSTELLO: Thank you very much, David Perry, for being with me. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:30] COSTELLO: It's not just in Roseburg, Oregon. Tragic shootings are happening all across the nation every day. In Cleveland a baby girl in a car with her mother was hit by a stray bullet and killed. The Cleveland police chief, Calvin Williams was overcome with emotion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALVIN WILLIAMS, CLEVELAND POLICE CHIEF: The family, I mean it's tough. It's tough.

This should not be happening in our city. We got to do something about it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Lebron James tweeting, "Like seriously, man, a baby shot in the chest in Cleveland? It's been out of control but it's really OCC. You all need to chill the F out." This is the third child hit by gunfire in Cleveland in just the last month.

To talk about this right now is -- with me now, Pia Carusone. She's the executive director for Americans for Responsible Solutions, a group founded by Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly.

Thanks Pia for being here.

You're trying to change the conversation about gun control to at least allow people to have a civil conversation. How's that going?

PIA CARUSONE, AMERICANS FOR RESPONSIBLE SOLUTIONS: Yes. That's exactly what we think needs to happen in this country. For so long, the left and right would divide and the middle of country ideologically and also geographically was left out of the conversation. But over 70 percent of gun owners believe in solutions like background checks. They believe that they could save lives and also do support and protect their Second Amendment rights.

So, you know, what we've done is try to put together the unlikely allies, we say, the Republicans, the gun owners, the business owners -- people that have been left out of the discussion and gun violence prevention in the past.

COSTELLO: Is there any progress?

CARUSONE: Certainly. I mean obviously, we're extremely disappointed at the lack of federal progress. Congress is -- it's criminal, the fact they've done nothing on this issue, but there's been many states that have taken the right step forward.

In fact this morning -- just moments ago Governor Jack Markell of Delaware signed a bipartisan bill that would prevent domestic abusers from getting their hands on guns. And we've seen this progress -- actually in Oregon. Washington State, Connecticut, New York -- many states around the country are looking at ways to solve their problem on a state level in the absence of Congress doing something.

COSTELLO: So, why is there this fear with some gun owners that every law that is enacted is going to strip them of all rights? Like where is that coming from? No one is saying that.

CARUSONE: Yes. So, you know, I think what happens is, you know, the NRA is an organization that does a lot of good for a lot of people. They do a lot of gun training, safety training, especially with young children people. They offer gun owners free and reduced ammunition and range time.

But on the farthest end of the effort that they have is the really extreme political work that they do. And they're unfortunately successful in convincing certain gun owners that their rights are really threatened when, as you say, it's true, there's not even really a serious discussion among real leaders of this country to do anything extreme like that. No one's talking about a new gun ban.

It's really the idea that people do kill people, right? They say, not guns. And that's what we're after.

COSTELLO: All right. Pia Carusone -- thank you so much for being with me this morning.

CARUSONE: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

[11:00:05] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: We're following two major stories today.

First, brand-new information coming in about the mass shooting at an Oregon community college. Nine people are dead today.

Stories of --