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NEW DAY

Hurricane Joaquin Intensifies, Takes Aim at U.S.; U.S. Officials: Russia's Intentions in Syria Unclear; Biden Delaying Decision on Entering Race; Trump: 'I'm a Counter Puncher'. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired October 1, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joaquin now a Category 3 hurricane, bearing down on the Bahamas.

[05:58:38] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forecast models are not agreeing right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Think ahead. Have a plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Russia launching airstrikes in Syria.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The Russians are not attacking ISIS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This approach is tantamount to pouring gasoline on the fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Russia said it was helping Assad, it really meant helping Assad.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald seems to have a harder time taking criticism. And he probably needs to put on his big-boy pants, too.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only time I go after people is when they hit me. I'm a counter-puncher.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, October 1, 6 p.m. in the East.

Joaquin is a Cat 3 hurricane and heading this way. Category 3 means 120-mile-an-hour winds as it bears down on the Bahamas. Now Joaquin could gain more strength today. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Eighty million people on high

alert. Flooding is the big concern. Virginia already declaring a state of emergency. The big question: will it make landfall in the U.S. and then where and when? CNN has the coverage.

Let's begin with meteorologist Chad Myers with the latest forecast models. What are they saying, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They're different than they were yesterday, which is not exciting, because we want them to all agree all the time. That's the way we know that they're correct.

But 120-mile-an-hour storm. Hurricane hunters have been flying through the storm all night long. It is going to hang out in the Bahamas for almost 48 hours. And then it's going to make a run to the north.

It's that hanging out part that has the models confused. They don't know whether it's going to shoot up to the north, or is it going to shoot off to the east and away. And we still have this differentiation of models. One and some going left into the United States and some not.

That's why this is so wide. Everyone's asked: is it going to hit New York City? Is it going to hit Long Island? Well, that's the center of the life, but look how far the line goes to West Virginia? Or all the way out, almost to Bermuda when we get that far out. Now, you have to understand, that's five days away.

The models yesterday were all focused on North Carolina. Not so much today. Many of the models missing North Carolina. We showed you these two models yesterday. One the GFS. The American model right there.

Now, yesterday afternoon, this model was here. And now I think OK, it's definitely going to North Carolina. But now today it's here. So it's changed its mind.

Yesterday, the GFS was here. And today it's here. Not changing its mind at all. So that just puts more things on it.

Now, I understand this is still three days away from the U.S., no big -- no matter what. It's still going to hang out in the Bahamas for a long time. But 120 miles per hour. Forecast to get stronger than that before it makes a run at the U.S., if it does.

CAMEROTA: Right. Those are serious numbers, Chad. Thanks so much for keeping an eye on it for us. Much of the already-rain- drenched East Coast on high alert this morning, ahead of Hurricane Joaquin. Overnight, Virginia's governor declaring a state of emergency. The federal government preparing for the potential of another October hurricane just three years after Superstorm Sandy.

CNN's Victor Blackwell is live from Virginia Beach with that part of the story. Good morning, Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, good morning to you.

Parts of Virginia bracing for Joaquin, while already taking a beating from the storm that's here now. Another day of wind and rain forecast as cities up and down the East Coast set new rainfall records on Wednesday. And they're waiting to see what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): This morning, the East Coast drenched and on high alert. Coastal states from Virginia up to Maine soaked by rain ahead of Hurricane Joaquin's expected landfall. Virginia already sopping in a torrent of downpours, caused by moisture rich air coming from the Gulf of Mexico. The governor declaring a state of emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll be putting sand bags together tomorrow morning, having those ready.

BLACKWELL: Heavy rainfall causing widespread flooding across the coast, dropping more than 10 inches of rain in some states. Parts of Maryland impassible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like a freaking river is what it looked like.

BLACKWELL: Homes damaged in Maine. This daycare center destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a matter of ten minutes, we were completely under water, with a couple of inches of standing water in the hallways.

BLACKWELL: Massachusetts pounded by record-breaking rainfall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's a lot of waterlogged people walking around our city.

BLACKWELL: Your flooding so intense that this woman had to be rescued from her flooded car. And the driver of this tractor-trailer dead after it flipped on the highway.

As Joaquin brews in the Atlantic, FEMA at the ready. President Obama briefed about the storm on Wednesday. Joaquin already registering sustained winds of 120 miles per hour.

An ominous sign for New England, still haunted and recovering from the devastating damage left by another October hurricane, Sandy, just three years ago. Flood-weary residents hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is what it is. You can't do nothing about it. If it comes, it comes. And if it don't, it don't.

BLACKWELL: Now you can see how strong the winds are here along the boardwalk on Virginia Beach. And this is not part of Joaquin. But take a look out at the surf. A pretty significant chop. And it is important to tell you that there have been reports of significant beach erosion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

So that barrier that would protect property all along the East Coast would be long gone by the time Joaquin comes along here, maybe late Sunday into Monday as the National Weather Service predicts. What the people here predict -- are preparing as best as they can while already taking this punch.

Back to you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes, that's the best course of action, is be as prepared as you can be.

All right, Victor. We'll check back with you a little later to see the progress. And we'll have much more on Hurricane Joaquin throughout our show.

But we want to turn now to the escalating situation in Syria. U.S. officials unclear about Putin's intentions over Russian airstrikes in Syria. The Russian defense ministry insists ISIS positions were targeted, but the White House and Pentagon dispute that claim, leaving serious doubts about who the Russians are really attacking.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is wading through it all and trying to make sense of it for us.

Good morning to you, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

You know, the Russians yesterday told the Americans, "Keep your airplanes out of the skies over Syria."

The Americans saying, "Hmm, thanks, we'll keep going." But asking the key question to the Russians, why are you propping up Assad?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:05:09] STARR (voice-over): The first day of Russian airstrikes in Syria, Russian aircraft targeted a weapons depot and army vehicles belonging to rebel battalions, not ISIS, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

On Wednesday, the Russian defense ministry claiming eight locations targeted were ISIS positions, but U.S. officials expressed doubt, warning the strikes could further enflame the civil war in Syria.

ASHTON CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: That approach is tantamount to pouring gasoline on the fire.

STARR: The areas the Russians hit: the city of Hama and Homs, where several factions, including the al Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra and other anti-Assad groups, are fighting the regime.

A Russian general giving the U.S. just one-hour notice before the strikes began. The White House responding with mixed messages.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think it's particularly surprising that Russia is using those new military capabilities. Particularly in light of their longstanding efforts to prop up the Assad regime.

STARR: Secretary Kerry trying to diffuse rising military tensions between the U.S. and Moscow, but holding firm on the U.S. policy, tweeting, "The U.S. supports any genuine effort to fight ISIL. However, we will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad."

GOP members quick to pounce, criticizing the Obama administration's handling of Russia and the downward spiral in Syria.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The president has said for years that Assad must go. But he has done nothing that has brought us any closer to achieving that outcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Now those talks between the U.S. and Russian military about this new word, hearing deconfliction, keeping Russian and U.S. pilots safe in the skies when they fly near each other, those talks could actually begin to happen as soon as today -- Chris.

CUOMO: Deconfliction. That's one of those weird terms, and now it's playing out in a weird way. So let's get deeper. Barbara Starr, thank you for the reporting.

Thomas Pickering, former U.S. ambassador to Russia and the vice chairman of Hill and Company; and retired Major General James "Spider" Marks, CNN military analyst, now the executive dean at University of Phoenix.

Dean, good to have you. Dean, General, General Dean? What do you want?

MAJOR GENERAL JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Go with "General." That will work.

CUOMO: Thanks very much, General.

MARKS: That will work, that will work.

CUOMO: All right. So let's talk about the reality and the rationale. First, let's go to the map and look at the reality. OK?

Here is where Russia is bombing, according to our best information. These areas, Spider, as you see them, they are not going to match up with the layover on the map of those darker areas. That's where ISIS is supposed to be.

MARKS: Out to the east.

CUOMO: Now, is this as obvious as it looks on the map? That they're supposed to be over there, but they're over here?

MARKS: Lines that we draw on the map are never as distinct as you'd like them to be. I mean, it's very easy to put a little goose egg on the map and say this is where the bad guys are, and the good guys are someplace else. What we have is a lot of unknown in Syria right now.

But these -- these estimates that are on the map are pretty good. Very good.

CUOMO: So the suggestion is, then, that they are not bombing where ISIS is in the main. What would be the reason for that? Now let's go to the next phase of this map that shows their military installations are in relation to Damascus. And of course, that's the stronghold of Assad.

MARKS: Assad and the regime is along the Mediterranean. Anti- regime forces are a little bit more to the east, kind of co-joining where Assad is and where ISIS is. Homs is not where ISIS is. That's not where their presence has been. That is not where they are fighting. So clearly, what Russia has done is made a very strong determination that they're going to go after anti-regime forces. Their long-term objective is to bolster Assad.

CUOMO: Now, Ambassador Pickering, this is not what they said that they were going to do, at least as it was explained to the media. And you have Iraq saying, this bombing is helpful in the war against ISIS. So where do you see this in terms of a rationale of response for the United States?

THOMAS PICKERING, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Well, Putin is always hard to figure out. He says one thing the one day and then does something the next day.

I think it's important to look at what's happening on the ground. And as you've seen overnight and from yesterday, the strikes have been very clearly against elements that are against Assad.

Assad has been losing ground in the area around Homs. There are reports that Syrian air force helicopters followed up the strikes with barrel bombs. Some of these obviously are coming out of people who wish to obviously influence the outcome.

But enough of that is out there now, I think, to be very, very clear that what the Russians have said about ISIS has not shown up on the ground yet. And all of this welcoming stuff and all of the nice stuff would be good if it happened, but we haven't seen it.

[06:10:03] There are two reasons, possibly. One -- the most direct and important one, I think -- Putin wants it that way. The other is, they're not very capable; and they sort of screwed up. I don't think that the latter is really true. CUOMO: Well, that takes us, General, into the idea of

deconfliction, which is a word I had to look up. Now I get what it means is that you don't want to kind of mix your sorties out there if you're supposed to be on the same side.

You have on the ground -- let's show, just give you a little graphic demonstration. This is basically the flight path on the left of the Russian jets and then here's the bigger circle. They're coming very close to each other.

On the ground, it's more than that if the information is to be believed, which is that Russia is bombing the same rebel groups that the U.S. is trying to help. So how do you reconcile?

MARKS: First of all, deconfliction is a term of art. It's a doctrinal term that we talk about that deconflicting both on the ground and in the air space. So that has to be addressed. And there are very tactical ways to go about that.

The concern I have is that right now, what needs to be done, and obviously, it's being done, as you can see on the map. You draw a line, and you say, 'You fly on this side. Don't send anything over to our side. We'll fly over here.

CUOMO: Well, you're supposed to be hitting the same side.

MARKS: Right, exactly. But clearly that's -- that's the theory. Deconfliction provides that. But that's not what Russia is doing.

CUOMO: That's what has people like Senator John McCain so upset about it, right? Is he said this is what you're doing. You're feeding Putin. You believed what he said. He's decided to play kingmaker, and now we're seeing it play out on the ground. Is Senator McCain right?

PICKERING: Well, I think that we see every evidence of that right now. And if deconfliction takes place, what we're seeing is essentially that a no-fly zone that we have informally enforced in the area where we're bombing ISIS has now become split.

And in effect, what will happen is that, under the protection of deconfliction, could the Syrian air force begin to do also a lot more than currently it seems to be able to do. And this is interesting to watch.

So it is a fast-moving and very confused situation. I think over the next 24 to 48 hours, we'll see a couple of things. Will we contact the Russian military? Will the Russian military cooperate?

Yesterday, they gave us an hour's notice in Baghdad that they were going to fly. Will that produce a united effort against ISIS? Can that be translated into something bigger on the political side?

Early in the week, we had some hope that would be the case from what Putin said at the U.N. and from some of the other newspaper stories. That seems to be fading a little bit, despite the fact that Sergei Lavrov, Russian foreign minister, and Secretary Kerry yesterday had worked out a pretty good set of arrangements. We'll have to see whether -- in effect, those can prevail.

CUOMO: All right. Button it up for us, General.

MARKS: Well, the thing that we don't have is experience working with the Russians in a really tactical level where it matters on the ground or in the air. We're talking about captains working with captains and majors. We don't have any of that. That is a new experience for us. We're going to have to fumble our way through this.

CUOMO: This first wave of information is good. Let's see what happens next and what this conference yields now going forward.

General, thank you very much.

Ambassador Pickering, appreciate it. Please come back as we learn more so we can explain more to our audience. I appreciate it.

PICKERING: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. Some breaking news overnight. Developing story here. The Afghan government says its forces have retaken control of the northern city of Kunduz from the Taliban. But they are saying that they're still fighting pockets of insurgents hiding out in residential areas.

Meanwhile, U.S. forces supporting Afghan forces by carrying out several more airstrikes in the vicinity of Kunduz Airport to eliminate any threat. Those airstrikes happening as a Taliban spokesperson claimed via Twitter that Afghan forces have been pushed back again.

CAMEROTA: Turning to politics now, we have some new reporting on whether Vice President Joe Biden will jump into the 2016 race. Insiders telling CNN that Biden is pushing back his decision date. What does that mean? CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins us with more.

What have you learned, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Alisyn.

Vice President Joe Biden is extending his window once again. And he's not expected to make his decision in early October. He's also not preparing to go to that first Democratic debate on October 13 in Las Vegas.

Now, we've learned from several Democrats close to Biden that he feels no pressure to reach a decision before then. He's more likely to reveal his plans in the second half of October, which of course, is sure to keep the speculation alive. But with every passing week, many Democrats close to Biden tell

us they believe he will ultimately decide against challenging Hillary Clinton and the rest of the party's field.

People close to the vice president tell me it's important to listen carefully to his own words, particularly in this interview late last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not quite there yet. And it may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed, because there are certain windows that will close. But if that's it, that's it. It's not like I can rush it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:14] ZELENY: Now a campaign apparatus is waiting, should he decide to do it. But so far, he's not asked any of his advisers to swing into action.

Yet in conversations we had with nearly two dozen Democrats this week close to Biden, the same caveat emerges. He simply hasn't made up his mind yet. So that stage at the CNN debate in less than two weeks will likely have only five candidates on it: of course, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chaffee and Jim Webb -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Jeff. You know, first of all, that will be very instructive for people. They'll see what the stay of play is, and they'll see what their needs are coming out of it. And Biden is not getting judged by the normal measure of vacillation, because we all know what he's going through personally.

ZELENY: Right.

CUOMO: All right, Jeff, we'll check back with you in a little bit.

We have other news this morning. A leading Secret Service official in big trouble following a report from a government watch dog group. It found Assistant Director Edward Lowery pushed to have unflattering information about Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz made public to embarrass him. Turns out Chaffetz had applied to be a Secret Service agent in 2003, but was rejected. And the leak began shortly after Chaffetz blasted the agency at a March hearing for a series of security mess-up.

CAMEROTA: All right. So up next, a kinder, gentler Donald Trump? The Republican frontrunner telling CNN that we are going to see a tone shift moving forward. Is that possible? What will that look like?

We discuss that and so much more next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:20:44] CUOMO: Donald Trump says he is bigger and better than

ever, baby, fueled by new poll numbers that show his lead growing again after a post-debate dip. Trump flashed what he said was a new side of his political self as he spoke to CNN's Don Lemon about conflicts and campaign rivals.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Are we going to see a kinder, gentler Donald Trump?

TRUMP: You are, and I think it's much different once you get into the position.

Look, I built a great company, and you don't do that by being -- I have a great temperament, although Jeb Bush said my tone is a little bit tough. It's a tough world. I mean, we can't have people of low energy. I use that expression.

There are numerous people -- it's not only Jeb. I mean, you have many people that are running that are low-energy people. We don't have that choice.

But in terms of temperament, I think I have a great temperament. I have a temperament that wins. I know how to win. That's all I've been doing, all my life, is I've been winning.

LEMON: The former president, Bill Clinton, talked about the GOP race, and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You shouldn't be able to insult your way into the White House. Or use enough politically incorrect phrases to get your way to the White House, on either side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What's your reaction?

TRUMP: Just so you understand, I mean, look, I've had tremendous success with "The Apprentice." I did the book, "The Art of the Deal," one of the most successful books of all time and business books of all time. I've done -- I had a great career. I had a great amount of victory, and I've had a lot of fun doing it. But so he sort of says -- with me, it's not about that.

I've made tremendous -- hundreds and hundreds of deals that have been great deals. You know, we're talking about deals. We're talking about people.

LEMON: What would you say to him...

TRUMP: I'll tell you about him. There's no such things as deals. It's people. Because people are basically deals. You have to be able to read, and you have to be able to see what's going on. Most people can't do that. OK, very, very few can do that.

He is defending his wife. His wife has been very nasty to me. Every time she gets up, she makes a speech, she talks about something. I said this; I said that. She's been very nasty to me. I mean, I said she's the worst secretary of state in the history, and a lot of people agree with me.

LEMON: You have complimented her before.

TRUMP: By the way...

LEMON: But you complimented her before.

TRUMP: I have complimented, yes. When I'm a businessman, I compliment everybody. I would compliment you, because I'd want you to speak well of me. OK? When I'm a businessman, I've been -- look, as one magazine said, I've been a world-class businessman. I've been all over the world. I'm successful all over the world. I compliment everybody. I'm not going to say bad about the secretary of state and then I'm doing a deal in whatever country I'm doing it. I'm in, like, 18 different countries right now. I'm nice to everybody. Why would I not -- why would I not compliment her?

And if you really look at it, the real problem is, what has she done as secretary of state?

Now, she's hit me very hard. So I don't feel guilty. But everybody that I have hit, you know, a lot of people say I hit hard. But I'm a counterpuncher. I never go first.

When Rubio hit me, I didn't say anything bad about him. He hit me, and look, there's a guy, he's got a terrible record. He's got a lot of things going -- kind of very weak on immigration. And I hit him hard.

I hit Rand Paul hard. He came out of nowhere. I mean, he was, "Oh, Donald, you're so great; you're so wonderful." All of a sudden, like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, he starts hitting me. The only time I go after people is when they hit me. I'm a

counter puncher. I don't want to hit them. I think it's bad for the Republican Party. I think it's bad for the whole process.

And one of the bad things is if I win, it's hard to support. In the meantime, I have to hit one before I look at the other. As far as Hillary is concerned I don't feel guilty at all, because she's been very nasty to me over the last three or four weeks in her speeches, so I'm going to hit back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right. A lot to talk about. Joining us now for the roundup of all of the latest political news, CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny along with CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York One, Errol Louis. Guys, great to have you here.

Errol, what jumped out at you from that Donald Trump sit-down?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's hard to get away from the notion that you're listening to something -- somebody talking about a schoolyard kind of dispute. Right? "I don't go first. He hit me first." I mean, he's literally using these words. It's hard to sort of get past, though, the way the discourse has been lowered to that level.

But beyond that, Donald Trump does have to change something. He is sort of leveling out in the polls. And we know that seven and a half to eight of every ten Republicans are saying they want somebody other than Donald Trump.

[06:25:04] CAMEROTA: But hold on a second. Let me challenge you on that. Is he leveling out? Because let's put up the latest poll. This was just released yesterday. "USA Today" topic (ph). It looks at July -- or no, sorry. This is a different poll. This is about the money. We'll get to money in a second. But here's what the polls show. Trump is still on top. He's at 23 percent.

Look at what happened in July. He was at 17 percent. Leveling out? He's still going up from the summer.

LOUIS: He's gone from leading by close to 20 points to leading by something closer to 12 points. So that gap is not where I think he wants it to be. So that's No. 1.

And secondly, it simply hasn't moved. If you -- those same polls tell you that 7.5 to 8 out of every 10 Republicans say that they want somebody other than Trump to be the nominee. And they have tremendous antipathy towards him. If he wants that to change, it's going to have to really start to move up. He's going to have to start taking support from others.

CUOMO: Also -- also, Jeff, Errol is touching on something that has a layered statistic, which is his built-in negative is well over 55 percent. It's very high. It's higher than everybody else. Raises the question, which you know, we have to deal with on a daily basis. Is the media propping this guy up or is there a legitimate basis of support there for him that could potentially grow?

ZELENY: Chris, I think the answer to both questions is yes. Of course, the media has been propping him up because he has been talking. He is a presidential candidate who actually seems to enjoy answering questions, enjoys being on television, enjoys the attention that comes with that, for good or for bad. And that, you know, certainly has drawn him some support.

But he actually also has tapped into, you know, this sentiment out there in the electorate that is -- is looking for a winner, and is looking for someone like this.

The question for Donald Trump is what is his evolution as a candidate? And we're seeing it already. We saw his tax plan earlier this week. We're seeing -- we're seeing him say, "I'll be more -- you know, a kinder and gentler" -- we'll see about that. He wasn't necessarily last night at his town-hall meeting in New Hampshire.

But I think we're seeing the evolution of Donald Trump. We'll see how he grows as a candidate here.

But he has leveled off in the polls, there's no question about this. That poll that we just showed. That's from July to now. So of course he's grown since then. But every other poll is showing, since the debate that he has sort of flat-lined. But still at 23 percent.

CAMEROTA: Right.

ZELENY: That can win a Republican primary that is so divided with so many people.

CAMEROTA: OK. Now, let's get to the graphic with the numbers in terms of fundraising, because the numbers just came out yesterday, and they're very interesting.

So in the second quarter, Hillary Clinton raised that astronomical amount of $47.5 million. Third quarter, $28 million. Sanders went from $15 million to $25 million. Ben Carson also had a just incredible ride there, from $10 million to $20 million. What do you see, Errol?

LOUIS: They're all making history in different ways. Clinton has done better than any other person -- any other candidate in the history of politics in the third quarter of the nonpresidential year. So she's doing well. Numbers are going in the wrong direction but still doing very well.

Sanders is doing extraordinarily well for somebody who, you know, apparently wasn't supposed to have a chance. And he's doing very well with small donors in a way that we haven't seen before.

And Carson also in his own way making history. He uses Facebook to an extent that I think historians are going to write about, political scientists are going to study. He uses social media in a way like nobody has done before.

CAMEROTA: Like how? What does he do?

LOUIS: I mean, he organizes his events through social media. You see a gigantic crowd there. There were no fliers. There were no phone calls.

CUOMO: There's constant crowdsourcing through his Facebook page for people who agree with what he said. And they do it on moment-by- moment basis, which is very effective.

LOUIS: And so they're all sort of really moving things in a particular direction. Sanders in particular, by disavowing PAC money, by taking only small donations, he's really doing something that we haven't seen. He's outpacing where Obama was with small donors in 2008.

CUOMO: So Jeff, let's go to the latest political tactic that we're going to see in place, specifically with Hillary Clinton. You have the man who could take over for John Boehner, somewhat applauding the Benghazi commission for taking her numbers down. What do you see in his statement? What do you see in the future with that commission?

ZELENY: Chris, this is significant. Kevin McCarthy, who everyone believes is the speaker in waiting here, he said what most Democrats suspect, that this Benghazi committee that is going to host the hearing for Hillary Clinton on October 22, on the Hill, that's been looking into all this, he said that that is responsible for bringing her numbers down over the summer.

The reality is that this committee, a lot of people on it, a lot of members on it, are furious at their own member. They're furious at Kevin McCarthy, Republicans area, because they believe he has tainted this whole process now. He's made it look political. A lot of these numbers have actually tried to do this investigation. They're doing all these witnesses. And he yesterday said that it's responsible for bringing down -- her numbers down. So it is -- it's very controversial.

I don't know if this will thwart his rise to the speakership. But I have never seen so many Republicans sort of telling him to renounce these comments, reject these comments.

CUOMO: Let's hear the comments, Jeff, so we'll know what they're talking about. Let's play what McCarthy said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), CALIFORNIA: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi...