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Trump: "Fox News Has Not Treated Me Fairly"; Pope To Deliver Historic Address To Congress; Poll: Trump Maintains Lead As Rivals Rise. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 24, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Moments ago, Donald Trump joined us here on NEW DAY to talk about the pope, immigration, brand-new polls and of course, his new feud with Fox News. Let's bring in John King, CNN's chief national correspondent to break all this down. Hi, John.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, good morning. First, let me start by saying, great job. It's like saying a jet- powered pinball, but you did that quite well.

CAMEROTA: I appreciate that. So what jumped out of you of all the things that Donald Trump said?

KING: A couple things, off the top, you're trying to press him on some very important policy issues. He made clear he was a big specific that he flatly disagrees with Pope Francis, who is in Washington today, will be in New York City tomorrow.

He is making a climate change a call for world action on climate change a part of his pilgrimage here to the United States. Donald Trump flatly saying he disagrees. At one point saying, you know, it's just weather and it's been happening for a long time.

No scientific insights from Mr. Trump there. You also tried to press him on his plan to round them up. Mr. Trump said he would allow most of the illegal immigrants back in on an expedited basis as long as they can prove they have no committed no crimes.

But you tried to press him, how do you do it and he keep saying we'll get there, people will love it. And many other times you tried to press him, he said essentially he has a secret plan to heal the world. You said with the Marco Rubio question, he says, I want to be unpredictable.

Maybe that works. He has slipped in the polls just a little bit. He's still the frontrunner. After the CNN debate, he came down in the CNN poll. He came down in the Quinnipiac poll. He's flat lined in the new Bloomberg poll out this morning.

So this is testing time for Donald Trump. He remains the driving force in the race and the frontrunner but let's see. CAMEROTA: Here's the poll shows what happens since the CNN GOP debate in August. He was at 28 percent. He is down to 25 percent. Still obviously, the frontrunner, but other people have ticked up.

But you know, John, back to the point about how he would deport -- these mass deportations of 11 million people. The devil is in the details. I was trying to ask him, will he use the army? Will he use the police?

I wanted to know the optics of these deportations will look like and he doesn't really talk about that, you know. He just won't get into the nitty-gritty and won't reveal if he has a plan. That was a tough one.

Also, I asked him about his ongoing feud with Fox News and whether or not he needs Fox News viewers in order to win the primary and why he takes these steps so personally. He's been accused of being too thin- skinned to be a really successful candidate. He addressed that very thing. So listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): If I do something wrong, Alisyn, I have very thick skinned. I don't mind being criticized. I never complain. I know if I do something wrong. I'm a smart person. I mean, I do something wrong. I do things wrong.

[07:35:05] And when I do, I don't mind, they can come at me 15 different ways. But when I'm right or when I don't deserve something, I think very, very unfair to speak incorrectly. So, I will correct people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: You know, it was interesting when we asked what it is that he has done wrong lately, he was hard-pressed to come up with anything.

KING: Yes, you did give him a chance to say, well, I messed this up. Or I should have said this. And he just said, I don't know, I can't think of one. He has said such memorable things in the campaign right here on NEW DAY including remember just a couple of weeks back where he said he wins by whining.

He whines until he wins. If you listened to his interview moments ago and if you watched his event in South Carolina yesterday he seems to be doubling down on that strategy because he is whining about everybody.

He is whining about the other candidates attacking him. He is whining about the questions. He whined about our fabulous CNN reporter, good for you for standing up to him down in South Carolina.

He's whining about Marco Rubio. He's whining about Fox News and let's see if it works. The conventional rules of politics have not applied to Donald Trump up until this point. In the debate, I think they did. He was largely absent in the big policy discussions of the CNN debate. It clearly hurt him in the polling. Now is the test of him as a politician when you get knocked down, and every politician does, especially every politician who wins.

Winning politicians get knocked down. The test of their mettle is how they get back up. This is a really key phase for Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: There you go. All right, John King, always great to get your insights. Thanks so much for being on.

All right, let's go out to Chris who, of course, is in Washington, D.C. with all of the papal coverage -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Humility as some form of weakness -- Donald Trump. Pope Francis, humility as a virtue. Tear someone down to build yourself up -- Donald Trump.

Pope Francis learned to be better together, be a missionary of mercy. Hollywood could not come up with a better juxtaposition and a moment in time than the one we have before us right now.

What is dominating our political dialogue could not be more diametrically opposed to the message of Pope Francis and he is coming to Congress, the first pope ever to address them.

His message certainly will be very, very different from what we just heard. What will the specifics be? What will the impact be? Come back and figure it out.

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[07:41:30]

CUOMO: We're here at the U.S. Capitol and it's just a few hours from now, the holy father is going to arrive on Capitol Hill and be the first pope to speak to a joint meeting of Congress, but the history here isn't just about firsts.

It's about this confluence of the man, the message and the moment in our particular history. So how are lawmakers going to respond? We have one right here who wants to talk to us about it.

Senator Angus King, he's, of course, the independent senator from Maine. Senator, it is very good to be with you.

You just handed me something that is going to be on the pope's agenda which is climate change. He spoke about it in great detail on the White House lawn. You handed me a card that says here's everything you need to know about global warming.

It has a graph about CO2 that's going up and you have temperatures here, CO2 levels and temperatures. You say it's very simple. Donald Trump just said very clearly as clear as this card you handed me, I don't believe in it.

SENATOR ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: I'm sort of speechless which is unusual for politicians --

CUOMO: He's representative of a group in this country.

KING: But the science is so clear. I mean, CO2 is way more than it's been for the last 3 million years. The last time CO2 was at the level that it's at now, oceans were 60 feet higher.

CUOMO: Cycles of weather.

KING: But that's what the card says, we've had cycles for 900,000 years. All of a sudden in 1860 it rockets upwards and that's when we started burning stuff.

CUOMO: Now although you did create this card and you're name is on the bottom and you're selling them at very high price, which I think might be a felony, but the idea that you have plenty of intelligent people in Congress who do not believe what's on this card, how do you justify that.

KING: I don't know how -- to me, I think we can argue. It's legitimate to argue about means and how we deal with this and what's technology and what we do. But arguing about the science is like arguing that light doesn't go 186,000 miles a second. This is just data.

CUOMO: Light at 186,000 --

KING: Yes.

CUOMO: That should be speed of light. Nothing is that fast.

KING: But it is -- there's plenty of room for debate. But I don't understand the debate about the fact that something is going on.

CUOMO: Because you don't have to debate what to do if you avoid the premise and say there's nothing there. That brings us to the pope. He's going to say I've got one of Senator King's cards. I believe there is global warming. And it's up to the stewardship and humanity on the earth that we live to fix it. How do you think the message will be received?

KING: Well, I think some people are going to receive it very well and some are going to be sort of resistant. I think the important thing about the pope's message is that this is a theological and ethical issue. He's been criticize.

I've heard people say, well, he ought to stick to theology and morals, and leave the science to the scientist. One thing, he has a degree in chemistry. He is a scientist.

But the other is that this is about ethics. This is stewardship about all the things in the Bible that God gave us. One of them is thou shalt not steal. If we destroy the earth, we're stealing from future generations. I think this is an ethical issue. CUOMO: Sometimes, things are a coincidence, sometimes, they are not. Could you imagine a moment that is better for the pope to be here, than the one right now, given what's going on in the political dialogue as assumed in the person of Donald Trump?

KING: Well, I'm not going to compare the pope to Donald Trump.

CUOMO: No, I'm saying, contrast them. The pope is coming here, saying you guys have to be more tolerant. You got to think about each other more. You got to be better than what's brought at.

[07:45:08] KING: His voice is soft. His voice is soft, he's calm and he's appealing to the better angels of our nature. I think that's really important in our politics. I'm convinced that leadership matters.

And that we all have the capacity to go in a good direction or bad direction, depending upon how we're led. And I think the pope's message, and not only the message, but his demeanor, he's a humble man, great story about when he was first elected.

They wanted to put all the fancy robes on him. He said, no. But you've got to, this is important. You know what he said, the carnival's over.

CUOMO: Do you remember him going to the hotel to settle his check. He went to his own hotel with his suitcase in hand and settled his bill, right after he became pope?

KING: Yes, I think that's a message that it doesn't hurt us to hear every now and then.

CUOMO: Now it's going to be delivered in a beautiful way. We know that. We see that he electrifies people whether they have faith or they do not. I don't think it even matters to him really even though he's the head of a billion Catholics.

I think to him it's about energizing the spirit, his signature expression, haciendo lio, get rid of ruckus. Do you think that resonates in a way that actually matters to the people in D.C. right now?

KING: I think it will. I think the combination of the man and the message, I think it will. People aren't going to walk out and say, glory hallelujah, I'm converted. But I think there is going to be deep thought. There has to be when you listen to a man of this credibility and thoughtfulness. The world is fortunate that this particular guy came to this position at this moment in time.

CUOMO: I think sometimes, nothing he is going to say is technically new. Certainly this is a point in the Catholic catechism. Certainly there is a point popes have made before and certainly Bergoglio, the man, who is Pope Francis has made them before.

But sometimes it is the moment. Sometimes it is the timing and we are so twisted up and negative in terms of what we are doing in politics right now. So much disunity, maybe it will smack fresh and new. That's the whole point.

KING: Fifty years ago, Martin Luther King made a speech about a mile down the street that changed America. Nobody anticipated that. It was a big march, but that speech electrified the country. And I can't say this is going to do that although, I just read a preliminary draft.

CUOMO: Don't get the pope on your bad side.

KING: Let me just say, I was choked up. It's pretty powerful.

CUOMO: Senator King --

KING: Chris, good to see you.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure. Thank you for trying to make us better. Thank for this card. Appreciate it.

KING: Get it on my website.

CUOMO: Michaela, do you know how much he's trying to sell this card to me?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, fantastically appreciate it. We're going to talk more about Donald Trump and his interview with Alisyn. In a moment, we're also going to take a look at some of the latest polling. Is he finally showing signs of weakness? Stay with us. We'll discuss it.

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[07:52:15]

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump rarely at a loss for words as you heard in our interview with him this morning. Meanwhile there is a new poll out just this morning that reveals what has happened to the candidates since the CNN debate including Donald Trump.

So let's bring in CNN political analyst, John Avlon. He is the editor-in-chief of the "Daily Beast" and CNN political commentator, Margaret Hoover, a Republican consultant.

Let's start with the Donald Trump interview because there was so much to talk to him about. One of the things that I wanted to ask him, his slogan is make America great again. And I wanted to know when that magical mythical heyday of America was?

Was he talking about the 50s, the turn of the century -- what was he talking about? So he basically said before the Iraq war. Let me play it for you when he thinks America was at its best.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Has SNL asked you to go on this season? Would you consider it?

TRUMP (via telephone): I'm not allowed to say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It was the time he was at a loss for words. Let me tell you. He said -- he -- when pressed about when America's heyday was he said Clinton and Reagan. So what do you think of that being America's heyday?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The oldest story in the world is people complaining how awful current times and romanticizing the past.

PEREIRA: Every generation does it.

AVLON: We can't quit it, some people demagogue on it and try to make a buck off it, which is what he's doing. But in the Reagan era, certainly in the beginning of Reagan's term, there was high unemployment. There is a lot of destabilization. There was a massive economic expansion in the mid-80s.

That is absolutely true, but on many issues, let's say gay civil rights, things were not getting done. We had a massive recession during the Clinton era, during the impeachment hearings.

I don't think people were walking around with their heads up saying, yes, this is America at its best talking about, you know, antics off the oval office so come on.

CAMEROTA: Good point. What did you think about that?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think we're a little too quick to be writing Trump's obituary. He's at 25 percent. Everybody is saying this is a big slip. The percentage of, you know, the error in the poll is 3 percent. So he is actually still within the margin of error.

CAMEROTA: Quinnipiac poll out this morning, let's look at what you're talking about. Basically you are right he's at 25 percent. But what's happened since August, he's gone down a little. Sure margin of error but --

PEREIRA: So many others have come up.

CAMEROTA: His rivals have gone up much wider than the margin of error.

HOOVER: I'm saying is there is a 3 percentage point for margin of error so within the margin of error he is basically holding even. Yes, Carly Fiorina has had a rise.

AVLON: Yes, one of the things you are seeing here is that the top tier candidates are coalescing just a little bit. Margaret's reality check is important. You know, he is still almost four times Ted Cruz's total, but you are seeing that you have a clear set of considerations set and everything else is way, way behind.

[07:55:03] HOOVER: Which is why I think the point is this is a horse race. This is a snapshot. And what you do at the horse race when you go around the first bend is you don't say who is leading. The horse isn't leading is actually necessarily going to lead, but you want to look at, what's their form? How are they running? What's their team like --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Let me speak at that because when you are looking at what their form is. If you do the straight across comparison to what that means in a presidential race it is looking at the policy.

And Alisyn tried to get him to answer the question of why he is so thin on talking about policy and it was interesting his answer, we can talk a listen to his own words about being unpredictable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (via telephone): You got to be cool and you got to be unpredictable. And you just -- you just can't go in and say exactly here is my plan. And I do have plans. And by the way plans are always subject to massive change. And they change.

You got to win and I know how to win. These guys don't know how to win. Marco Rubio, he's like a kid. He shouldn't even be running in this race as far as I'm concerned. He is a kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: This isn't a poker game. He's talking about the fact he doesn't want to show his cards to his competitors. Is that enough for the American public?

HOOVER: No. He also said I can't telegraph my foreign policies or my world view because that would be like communicating with the enemies and I'm not going to do that because I don't want to give away plans. It's like he's conflating.

Look, Trump is at his best and he has won in this race when he's throwing attacks at individuals. He is calling other people bad names and then he is giving obtuse statements about what he's going to do to make America great.

That's sort of what he seems to be defaulting on, if it is indeed the fact that he does feel he's under the gun and others are encroaching on his lead.

CAMEROTA: But isn't this a poker game? To his point he is a great negotiator. He's saying I will use those in the oval office. That is my skill.

AVLON: You know, when Richard Nixon ran in 1968, he talked about a secret plan to win the war so it is not the first time somebody said I can't get into the specifics. The thing about Trump being unpredictable, he's playing by reality TV rules. He is a celebrity and he's gaming the media very effectively as a result.

CAMEROTA: All right, John and Margaret, always a pleasure to have you here -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, a very different mood down here. We have live pictures of big crowds outside the U.S. Capitol. Everybody wants to see Pope Francis. He has electrified the country. But the people outside are probably not as excited as the people who are going to be inside Pope Francis giving the first address to a joint session of Congress. What is he going to emphasize? What will the impact be? Preview ahead.

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