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CNN NEWSROOM

Carson Backs Off Anti-Muslim Vow; Interview with Hugh Hewitt; Pope Francis Arrives in the U.S.; Clinton to Take on Drug Companies; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 22, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[10:00:03] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM. Protecting the Pope.

COMMISSIONER BILL BRATTON, NEW YORK CITY POLICE: We plan for the worst or the unexpected.

COSTELLO: Pope Francis arrives in the United States just hours from now.

BRATTON: You'd always be concerned about active shooter, you'd be concerned about certainly explosive device.

COSTELLO: How snipers and SWAT teams are preparing for this Pope, who loves to be among the people.

Also.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: I will suspend my campaign immediately.

COSTELLO: Walker drops out and calls for other GOP candidates to do the same. Why?

WALKER: So that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive conservative alternative to the current frontrunner.

COSTELLO: A not-so veiled jab at Donald Trump. Will other candidates follow suit?

Plus, the price of a drug that helps AIDS patients rises by 5,000 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been much larger drug price increases by a much bigger drug companies.

COSTELLO: Why a tablet that used to cost $13 now costs over $700? A move Hillary Clinton calls outrageous.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Next hour, Republican Ben Carson takes to the stage and tries to step out of the shadow of his controversial vow that he could never support a Muslim for president. First he doubled down. Now he's backing off, at least a little. And his Republican opponents are forced to go on record. First, Carson's latest comments on FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely I stand by the comments. If, for instance, you believe in a theocracy, I don't care if you're a Christian. If you're a Christian and you're running for president, and you want to make this into a theocracy, I'm not going to support you. I'm not going to advocate you being the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Joe Jones is in Sharonville, Ohio, where Carson -- where Carson will shortly hold a really.

Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We do expect him to get some questions. And he is talking right now inside the Sharonville Convention Center. Let's just listen.

CARSON: By implication that question being asked if my initial response didn't answer the question, then he was saying, well, what about somebody who is of a faith that does not traditionally separate church --

COSTELLO: All right. Obviously we're having technical problems. But Ben Carson was once again addressing his remarks on Muslims becoming president of the United States. Let's head back to Sharonville and Joe Johns.

Tell us more, Joe.

JOHNS: Well, Carol, as you know last night in an interview on FOX News, he did stand by his comments that he would not support a Muslim for president, though he nuanced those comments just a bit to say that if that candidate denounced Sharia law, then it would be OK with him.

A lot of support for him among people we saw walking into the Sharonville Convention Center this morning. However, it's problematic for him because what he said could be seen as discriminatory. And it's settled in the United States that there should not be a religious test for public office.

Let's listen to what some of the other candidates on the trail have said about those comments by Ben Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ben was saying there are difficulties and I think everybody knows what those difficulties are and people want to be politically correct. But there have been difficulties and a lot of people agree with Ben. I do think that Ben would also agree, though, if properly vetted, the properly people properly vetted going through an election, I think that anybody that is able to win an election will be absolutely fine.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think that religion should be a criteria for being president. You know, there should be some exclusion based on one's faith or the lack of faith, frankly. I know a ton of people that are peaceful Muslims that live in the United States that are -- that love this country or are patriotic Americans and serve in the military. The idea that you would think otherwise is really not grounded in reality.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I actually believe that people of faith make better leaders. Whether they're Christians as I am. My faith has sustained me through some very bad times. I've battled cancers. I've lost a child. I've been tested. But whether it's a personal Christian faith or Jewish faith or Muslim faith or other faiths, I think faith gives us humility and empathy and optimism, and I think those are important things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: This issue of religious test for public office was tested, in fact, in the very last presidential campaign. Mitt Romney, a Mormon, running for office, he tweeted today and was also critical of Ben Carson's statements, saying, "Of course no religious test for the presidency. Every faith adds to our national character."

[10:05:10] So we're going to get our technical problems straightened out and try to find out what Ben Carson said just a little while ago -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I know. You're going to have to go in the old-fashioned way and listen with your ears, right?

(LAUGHTER)

Joe Johns, thanks.

JOHNS: Right.

COSTELLO: So we'll get back to you.

Carson is tempering his so-called straight talk translation, he didn't mean all Muslims could not be president, only those he says who would support Sharia law. Donald Trump is also adopting a somewhat softer tone. He says, if a Muslim candidate is properly vetted, then it's OK to serve.

I wonder, though, is this the beginning of the end of 2015's straight- talk express?

With me now Hugh Hewitt, he's host of a nationally syndicated radio show.

Good morning, Hugh, and thank you so very much for being with me. I appreciate it. So --

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Nice to be here, too, Carol, fellow Northeastern Ohioan here.

COSTELLO: My goodness. Where are you from in northeast Ohio?

HEWITT: Warren. I know you're a Golden Flash. I spent a lot of time at Kent State so.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: That's awesome.

HEWITT: Hometown kudos.

COSTELLO: Right back at you. Thanks, Hugh. So let's talk about, you know, these candidates say they're just like saying things like it is. They're laying it out. They're not sugar-coating their words, but in the end, isn't that coming back to bite them?

HEWITT: Well, I would like every Republican to begin this conversation by referencing Article VI of the original Constitution. It's never been amended. It's still there. It's a ban on religious tests. And then to transition to a conversation about how everyone's character and faith informs a voter's selection. That's the way to talk about this. I think Ben Carson, who's new to the political stage, will get better at it. I think Donald Trump is changing and getting better. He's still atop the polls.

The -- obviously the most deeply faithful of the people in the race thus far in terms of talking about their faith, Rick Perry and Scott Walker, both obviously great men of faith, have left the race. They won seven governor races between them in big states whereas Donald Trump and Ben Carson continue to lead. So it's truly a rollercoaster, unusual year. And I don't know that anyone is going to stop talking straight, sideways, upside down or whatever.

COSTELLO: Well, let's see --

HEWITT: Why?

COSTELLO: Let's see, Hugh, if Ben Carson is still talking straight. Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you said it's not (INAUDIBLE) vaccine, but do you think you should have been, could have been a scientist or a doctor (INAUDIBLE) if you believe that and send your kids to school (INAUDIBLE).

CARSON: Well, I thought it was pretty clear that I said that there is no correlation between vaccines and autism. And I explained how that came about, you know, 20 years ago. It was misinformation. And people have not been disabused of it. So, you know, we have a responsibility to make sure that people do understand that.

You know, here's the thing, in our society, almost everybody gets vaccinated. And there are a certain number of people in our society who will develop autism. We have gotten much better at diagnosing it. And you know, there's a broad spectrum of diseases that fits under that category now because most people get vaccinations and because we're better at diagnosing it, you know, it's not unexpected that people would say, obviously it's being caused by the vaccinations, even though if there were no vaccinations, you would still have a certain population of people who would get autism.

Now if everybody was required to eat carrots, the same people would be saying, it's the carrots that's causing the autism. But the real science and the work that has been done in this demonstrates no correlation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you talk a little bit of why you're in Ohio? Probably six months away, you know, primary states coming up. So why are you doing this tour now?

CARSON: I have to be somewhere and Ohio is as good as any place. Yes?

JOHNS: Dr. Carson, I'm sorry, Joe Johns of CNN.

CARSON: Yes.

JOHNS: Did anybody ask you about how you sort of comport your view on a Muslim president with the notion that it's -- it sounds fundamentally discriminatory? And given the fact that you're an African-American Republican, some people might find that inconsistent.

CARSON: It has nothing to do with being a Muslim. That was the question that was specifically asked. If the question had been asked about a Christian and they had said, you know, would you support a Christian who believes in establishing a theocracy, I would have said, no.

[10:10:15] And then some people would say, he's against Christians. No. That's -- you have to be able to look at the context in which I'm saying.

JOHNS: But what is the context? (INAUDIBLE)

CARSON: The context is, as I said before that question was asked, anybody of any religious faith whatsoever, if they embrace American values and they place our Constitution at the top level, above their religious beliefs, I have no problem with them.

JOHNS: So is that --

(CROSSTALK)

CARSON: I said that. It's on the record. On NBC. On "Meet the Press." Did anybody pick up on that? Of course not. Because that wasn't a juicy story. But that's exactly what I said. That's exactly what I meant. I don't care what a person's religious beliefs are or what their religious heritage is. If they embrace American culture, if they embrace our Constitution and are willing to place that above their religious beliefs, I have no problem with them. I said that. Why is it impossible for people to hear that?

LEMON: Last question. It goes without saying that anyone, should they take the oath for president of the United States, would swear to the Constitution and to uphold it, so every president, be they Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Christian, Hindu, whatever, would take the same oath. So are you basically saying --

CARSON: Here's what --

JOHNS: You take the oath, then you're OK?

CARSON: Here's what I'm saying, when the situation arises and we have somebody in that situation, let's talk about it then. OK? Why get off into theoretical situations? No point in doing that. You know, there are so many important issues that are going on right now in this country, and why is it that people are not interested in the important issues that are going on? Why are people not interested in the refugee situation that's going on in Syria? Why are people not interested in the educational problems that are going on here? Why are people not interested in --

COSTELLO: All right. Our transmission froze once again. We got the important stuff in, so Hugh Hewitt, I go back to you. How's Ben Carson doing? How's he spinning this?

HEWITT: Well, I thought Joe Johns had a great series of questions there. And Dr. Carson got better on his message discipline in the middle of that series, and then he lost message discipline at the end. And again, this goes to being a rookie on the campaign trail. You have to repeat the same thing again and again and again, or you allow selective editing to occur in the amplified world that we live in.

And I thought his second response to Joe was perfect, but then his third response sort of trailed off into, let's worry about a hypothetical when it comes, which opens the door to more speculation. I do agree with him, the major story this morning is that Russia has deployed fighter jets to Syria. That's far more important than a speculative question about Article VI. But the way to get to talk about those questions is to dismiss quickly the Article VI questions by reference to the constitution.

So I look for all the Republicans who stay in the race, and I hope some of them listen to Scott Walker's very mature advice last night, that if you haven't got a path to the presidency, step off the stage so people who do can talk more seriously.

COSTELLO: Nobody is going to listen to Scott Walker. Nobody's going to listen --

HEWITT: Carol, I disagree. I think a lot of donors are probably calling -- the super donors, especially, are probably calling the second half of the field this morning and saying, you know, we -- that CNN debate, of which I was a part, and Jake did a great job running a complicated, three-hour, 24 million per hour watching extravaganza, but it's so hard for anyone to message correctly when you've got that many people.

So Jake was Cardale Johns, he's the quarterback. And we got Braxton Miller and JT Barrett, that's Dana and me out on the side, and then there are 11 people trying to get the ball and run with it. What Scott Walker was saying to everyone, if you don't have a path to the presidency, take a step back, serve the American people and let them hear the people who do. And I think that's really going to resonate with a lot of Republicans, especially super donors.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Hugh Hewitt, thanks so much for sticking around. I so appreciate it.

HEWITT: My pleasure, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, with just hours to go before Pope Francis arrives in the United States, all hands are on deck.

[10:15:02] Up next, the extraordinary security measures being put into place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. I want to take you back live to Cuba right now to show you a few pictures of Pope Francis. He's now at -- that's the cardinal of Cuba and he is speaking at this cathedral called Our Lady of the Assumption. Pope Francis is sitting in the Pope's chair, which is traditional, nearby. Later on he'll give a speech and speak to families. There you see him sitting there on the altar of that church.

And before the Pope arrived at this cathedral, some touching pictures. He was riding his Popemobile down the streets. Hundreds and hundreds of people were lining both sides of the streets. And as you can see, they walked right up to the Popemobile, bringing their children so the Pope could hand out a few kisses. He's sort of like a politician, right, kissing babies and doing the fabulous papal wave. There you go.

[10:20:02] Of course security personnel here in the United States are kind of concerned that the Pope does this kind of thing because it makes their job much more difficult to protect him, but I don't think the Pope will stop. Obviously, the people love it.

Pope Francis will, of course, begin his trip in the United States and Washington, D.C. Later in the week he'll travel to New York and then onto Philadelphia. Excitement already in the air. According to a new CNN-ORC poll, nearly half of Americans and 78 percent of Catholics are looking forward to Pope Francis' visit. Both Catholics and non- Catholics giving the Pope very high marks.

So let's talk about this with CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski and in Cuba where the Pope is getting ready to leave, CNN's Patrick Oppmann. Welcome to you both. Michelle, I want to start with you. Set the

mood in Washington because the Pope will arrive there late this afternoon.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's all about preparation. People have been talking about this for weeks and the Secret Service has been planning for months. You could say that really the planning for something like this approaches a year in its scope. Secret Service officers traveling to Rome to look at how these kinds of events are handled there. They have their own replica of Popemobile that they use at their own training facility here.

So we're going to see large numbers of federal and local police. We're going to see a lot of road closures. Basically as much control as possible because officers want to cut down the unpredictability factor in events that are, by nature, somewhat unpredictable, especially given the Pope's behavior that he wants to go out and interact with people. He wants to take those additional risks. And so the Secret Service has that challenge of balancing it.

And, you know, the concerns of people getting too close. The concerns about drones or other things you didn't have to worry about in the past. Here's what the New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton had to say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRATTON: We plan for the worst or the unexpected. And we watch very closely all of his appearances around the world, how he interacts with the crowd.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: So you've studies those appearances.

BRATTON: Sure. Sure. In terms of, you know, how he interacts. That's something we need to know about him because undoubtedly he will seek to do that. He makes it quite clear that he wants to meet with his parishioners. You would always be concerned about active shooter, you'd be concerned about certainly explosive device. You'd be concerned with any type of weapon for that matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: So when you're going to see crowds of that size, I mean, we're talking 100,000 or more, there are going to be 15,000 alone on the South Lawn here at the White House. And just imagine, all those people have to line up at some point and go through extremely tight security to get in. So people know that that's happening. They're prepared for it. We're going to see an enormous police presence because this is called something that really is unprecedented, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski, many thanks.

Let's go to Patrick Oppmann who's in Cuba right now. So I have a question for you, Patrick. Are the Castros now Catholic?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. They, of course, grew up Catholic or Jesuits. Had a very bad breakup with the church, that still has not been fully healed. Of course, Raul Castro has been along at every mass. No king or president has ever done for a papal visit. And he had made comments not too long ago in the Pope's presence about how he was rethinking going back to church.

Still apparently rethinking, Cuba's cardinal told me recently, that there's no sign that Raul Castro has rejoined the church. He's probably gone to more masses in the last few days than he has in the last 50 years, Carol, but we'll see how much influence the Pope has on that one. The jury is still out. You know, the question of whether they'd take him back, perhaps. But we'll let the Pope and President Castro work out the niceties on that.

But, you know, what you're talking about earlier is absolutely true. I've lived here for four years and I'm just stunned by the images we've seen in person and on TV of the Pope and the effect that he's had on people. Constantly stopping, reaching out, grabbing hands, blessing children. It's been very emotional for people here. And you have to think during much of the Cuban Revolution, these scenes would have been impossible, Carol.

You were not allowed to engage in large religious processions, churches, pretty much the only place you could worship, and even then you faced discrimination for being an openly religious person. That has all changed. Tens of thousands of people showing their faith openly and proudly, Carol.

COSTELLO: All those new Catholics. I'm sure Pope Francis is maybe -- well, I'm sure he's happy about that.

Patrick Oppmann, Michelle Kosinski, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, will Hillary Clinton's proposal to crack down on pharmaceutical companies really lower how much you pay for drugs?

[10:24:50]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

In just about four hours, Hillary Clinton will unveil a new plan to crack down on pharmaceutical companies and lower drug prices. The presidential candidate previewed her plan briefly on Twitter when she fired off a tweet saying that, quote, "Price gouging like this in the specialty drug market is outrageous," end quote.

She was actually referring to Turing Pharmaceuticals. Its new owner decided to hike the price of Daraprim, a potentially life-saving drug from $13.50 a tablet to $750 per tablet. Not kidding.

CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins me live with Hillary Clinton's plan and more on this story. Good morning.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. When she visits Iowa today, Hillary Clinton will present that plan to control these soaring costs of prescription drugs. Now it's all part of a week-long focus on health care. And what an example she has now with that price of drugs you just showed. She is of course she's defending the Affordable Care Act here but she's talking about how it should be approved upon --

(END)