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Carson Says U.S. Shouldn't Elect Muslim President; Trump States Similar Muslim Message; Trump Keeps Up Attacks On Fiorina's CEO Record; Politicians Worried About Pope's Speech; Analyzing Joe Biden's Decision; Pope Francis to Address Congress. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 21, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Damascus, 1:30 a.m. Tuesday in Pyongyang. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, religion and politics here in the United States can be a volatile mix, and some presidential candidates are learning that the hard way. Both Donald Trump and Ben Carson, they're dealing with the fallout over comments over Muslims. A Muslim advocacy group here in the United States today called on Dr. Carson to drop out of the race after he said a Muslim should not be elected president of the United States. CAIR, the Council on American Islamic Relations, held a news conference just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIHAD AWAD, NATIONAL EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CAIR: And we ask Mr. Ben Carson to withdraw from the presidential race because he's unfit to lead because his views are in contradiction with the United States Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And our Correspondent Athena Jones has details on exactly what Carson said that landed in him -- landed him in hot water.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This shocking statement by Dr. Ben Carson under a spotlight in the Republican presidential race. On NBC's "MEET THE PRESS" Sunday, Carson said a Muslim presidential should not be in the Oval Office and that a president's faith should matter to voters.

CARSON: If it's inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course it should matter.

JONES: Later, when Donald Trump was asked about the possibility of a Muslim, he said, --

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, some people have said it already happened.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

JONES: A reference to President Barack Obama. Trump later adding --

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: He said he was a Christian and he said he is a Christian, you know, I'm willing to take him at his word for that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

JONES: But Carson is doubling down on his controversial comments. In an interview with Washington newspaper "The Hill" he said, quote, "Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and that is inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution. Democrats were quick to pounce.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You judge candidates for president not on their religion, not on the color of their skin, but on their ideas on what they stand for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: This, as the latest CNN ORC poll shows Trump and Carson losing momentum with voters after the CNN debate. Trump, still the frontrunner, but his lead slipping as Carly Fiorina makes the biggest jump, rising 12 percentage points.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How many of you saw the debate on Wednesday night?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Over half of poll respondents who watched CNN's debate think Fiorina did the best job. Florida Senator Marco Rubio taking home second place, far better than the former mentor, Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think Carly had a good night, but I think you gave her a lot of easy questions.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

JONES: Trump now zeroing in on the post-debate star, attacking Fiorina's record as CEO, once again, Sunday, tweeting, she did such a horrible job at Lucent and HP. She never got another CEO job offer. The GOP frontrunner writing, there is no way that Carly Fiorina can become the Republican nominee. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And Athena is joining us now live. Athena, are Carson and Trump's remarks likely to hurt them in this Republican contest?

JONES (live): Well, that's a good question. Probably not. I say that only because the voters who are attracted to Carson and Trump, a lot of them agree with them. Take, for instance, Trump who came under fire for not correcting a man who said that President Obama is Muslim.

Well, our recent poll, our CNN ORC poll, shows that 43 percent of Republicans think that President Obama is Muslim, and 54 percent of Trump supporters think that. So, some of the things that Trump has said are in line with our polling numbers.

Also, if you look at a Gallup poll from earlier in the summer, back in June, it showed that just 45 percent of Republicans said they could vote for a Muslim for president.

And so, while some of these statements and sentiments may be stunning to a lot of people, there are also a lot of people who feel that Trump and Carson are speaking the truth. Those are the folks who are backing these two candidates. So, we'll have to see if they lose support, but my guess is if they do, it won't be because of these comments from those voters -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Athena, thanks very much.

I want to get a closer look at the comments of the controversy that has now erupted. Joining us, our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash and our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. What are you hearing, Dana? Do you think these comments are really going to hurt either Trump or Carson in these Republican caucus states and primary states?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Possibly. I would even go far -- as far as to say probably not because of what Athena was just talking about. I think that there are a lot of their potential voters who tend to agree.

[13:05:02] The question is out of those early states, and, you know, once and if they get to a more broad electorate whether that would hurt them. And I think, then, the answer would be, yes. Not so much because of Muslims, in particular, but because of the concept of tolerance.

BLITZER: He -- Dr. Carson's business manager, Gloria, Armstrong Williams, he was on CNN today. He was reacting to the statement from CAIR, this Muslim civil rights group here in the United States. He was strongly defending Dr. Ben Carson and he -- and he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BUSINESS MANAGER, DR. BEN CARSON: Where was CAIR at the 911 when there were those images of those Muslim kids in the classroom rejoicing and cheering at the falling of those buildings and our men and women died? Where was CAIR? Where was CAIR when what happened at Fort Hood when someone in the name of Islam killed our innocent men and women. Because of he feels in his heart about what it means when you're president of the United States, the kind of power and authority and how, literally, you can change the world. He has to come to the conclusion for what is best for America. And because of his love for America, that in his heart of hearts, he could never advocate for an American, for a Muslim becoming president of the United States. He just can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yes, he's an adviser of Dr. Carson. We haven't yet heard from him today, Dr. Carson himself. But it doesn't sound like he's backing away from this at all.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, it doesn't. And for the Republican Party, as a whole, this really doesn't help the conversation. This was a party that was heading into this election and wanted to expand the tent of the Republican Party and not shrink it. And I think what you see with these -- with these comments and also with Donald Trump is just the opposite.

And when you talk to Republicans who want to win this election, they say this is not -- you know, this is not the debate they want to be having right now. The debate they want to be having is about economic growth and prosperity and the future and not about -- and not about this.

BLITZER: Another Republican candidate, Bobby Jindal, the Governor of Louisiana, he said this is a dumb game of gotcha by the news media. He issued a statement saying, if you can find me a Muslim candidate who is a Republican who will fight hard to protect religious liberty, who will respect the Judeo-Christian heritage of America, who will be committed to destroying ISIS and radical Islam, who will condemn cultures that treat women as second-class citizens, and who will place their hand on the bible and swear to uphold the Constitution, then, yes, I will be happy to consider voting for him or her. If you can't, I'll settle for voting for a Christian governor from Louisiana, referring --

BASH: OK, right. Of course, --

BLITZER: -- to himself.

BASH: -- that's self-serving. But, you know, Chuck Todd, who asked the question on "Meet the Press" yesterday, he didn't say, should there be a Muslim for president? I just went back and looked. He said, is Islam consistent with the Constitution? Ben Carson is the one who took it there. So, this isn't the media asking gotcha questions. I think that's -- that was a legitimate question about Islam, based on the conversation that we were all having.

BORGER: Carson raised it.

BASH: Right. And, exactly, it all came up based on the voter, --

BORGER: Right.

BASH: -- back on Thursday or Friday, presenting the idea of Muslims not being good for America to Donald Trump. So, that's where this started not from the media. From a voter in New Hampshire and then a legitimate question not about the presidency.

BLITZER: In our national poll, our CNN ORC poll, Dana, among all Republicans nationwide, for the first time, Donald Trump's numbers --

BORGER: Down.

BLITZER: -- going down a bit. They had been going up, up and up. And, all of a sudden now, as you can see, they're going down. He went from 32 percent. Then slipped earlier in September to 24 percent now. So, some are already saying maybe his campaign is losing steam. What are you hearing?

BORGER: Well, I think that it is losing a little bit of steam. And if you look at all of the groups in which he's down, it would be a little troubling to me, if I were in Donald Trump's campaign. He's down 12 points with women since September. That's not -- that's not small. He's down with voters over 65, with whom he was very popular, college graduates, independents and those who identified themselves as very conservative. All of those together were part of the real Trump coalition.

He's clearly losing to Carly Fiorina right now with some of those groups, particularly women. She surged with women voters. But, you look at it and you do see a little air going out of the balloon. The question is whether he can reinflate his campaign again. And, you know, never say never with Donald Trump.

BLITZER: And she is now, what, in second place in our national poll, Carly Fiorina, just above Dr. Ben Carson. Her numbers have really gone up rather dramatically, in part as a result of our recent debate.

But he's going after her, Donald Trump, now big time citing her record, going back at her record when she was a CEO at Lucent, then at HP, saying she was a disaster. He's really going after her big time, and that's what Barbara Boxer did against her back in 2010 when she was running for the Senate, and she lost decisively to the Democratic senator from California, Barbara Box,. Those ads were pretty powerful.

[13:10:05] BASH: They were powerful. I mean, it was a -- it was a different terrain because it was in a blue-blue state of California. And Barbara Boxer is a household name and then some in that state which I guess, these days, could work to your detriment and not just to your benefit.

But, yes, it did not help her there. These are Republican caucus- goers and primary voters, and maybe you could argue that it would be more hurtful to Carly Fiorina if Trump can be successful and really paint her as somebody who really doesn't get it in business.

But, in typical Trump fashion, it's not just about her business. He's going after her personality. This morning, he was calling her robotic and saying that she, you know, just memorizes speeches and so on and so forth. So, it's the one-two punch which is pretty typical.

BLITZER: All right, guys. We're going to have a lot more on this coming up. Obviously, this story continues.

Polls haven't been kind to Hillary Clinton recently, but there are some new signs her campaign may have put a stop to her tumbling poll numbers giving her some brand new momentum. We'll explain. We have new numbers.

And Pope Francis has never been afraid to speak his mind and that has some politicians here in the United States worried about his visit to Washington. Coming up.

[13:11:16]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:00] BLITZER: All right, let's talk about the Democrats right now and the race for the White House. Hillary Clinton has been slipping a bit in recent polls, but now it seems that she's stopped the slide according to a brand new CNN/ORC poll. Clinton stands at 42 percent in the new poll. Bernie Sanders is at 24 percent. Vice President Joe Biden, who hasn't announced whether or not he's running, he's at 22 percent. For Clinton, by the way, that's a five point jump in the past two weeks alone.

Let's take a closer look at what the race would look like without the vice president in it. He's still deciding whether to run. Without Biden, Clinton takes a much bigger lead. She captures 57 percent in the poll. Bernie Sanders at 28 percent.

All right, let's talk a little bit more about the Biden effect, what's happening on the Democratic side. Here to join us to talk about the numbers and the impending decision by the vice president are Patti Solis Doyle, she's our CNN political commentator and former campaign manager for Hillary Clinton, and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.

So -- so, first of all, what do you think, Patti, do you think the vice president is coming in. He just said this in an interview. He said, "it's not quite there when he was asked if he's going to run. And it may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed because certain windows will close. But if that's it, that's it."

So what do you make of that?

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I don't know what he's going to do. It's clearly a very personal decision. I don't think he knows what he's going to do yet. But if he does decide to get in, he will be an extremely formidable candidate, obviously. He's a sitting vice president. He's beloved by the party. And judging by the poll that just came out, it -- he will affect the race dramatically and he will affect Hillary Clinton's chances in the race most dramatically. BLITZER: What was intriguing over the weekend, S.E., was the spokesman for Dr. Jill Biden, Joe Biden's wife, issued a statement saying that she would be on board if her husband decides to run for president of the United States. Normally that's a signal, yes, he's going to run.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, and -- and it's a -- it's a big deal for Biden who, as you know, has been going through some family strife, the death of his -- his son, Beau. So it's a big deal that Jill is sort of giving her OK to go and do what will be a very arduous year and a half for a guy who's going to be 74 when he -- when he's sworn in if he -- if he ends up winning. So it's -- it's more meaningful in Joe Biden's case that Jill Biden is coming out to say, this is OK. So I -- I -- I think he's probably going to run and I think we'll probably hear from him by the end of the month.

BLITZER: Some people say within the next two weeks.

CUPP: Could be.

BLITZER: That he should make his decision before the CNN October 13th debate. Wouldn't it be smart for him to be in that debate if he wants to run for the Democratic nomination?

DOYLE: You know, I -- I don't know about that. I think preparing for a debate, obviously, unless you're Donald Trump, it's a very arduous thing. It's time consuming.

BLITZER: He's been preparing only for 40 years for that debate. He was a senator for a long, long time. He's been vice president of the United States for six and a half years. He should be ready to debate these other Democrats.

DOYLE: I -- I agree. I agree. But if you're balancing so many other things like, you know, raising the money, getting your name on the ballot, all of these other things, a debate, you know, I think it might make sense to wait until after the debate and then come in and -- and just start running in the early four states.

BLITZER: But there are, you know, some regulations to get on the ballots, whether in New Hampshire and South Carolina, some of these early states. You've got to make a decision, I think, by the end of October.

DOYLE: I think that's right. And the debate's in the middle of October. So I think he's got some time. And not only do you have to get your name on the ballot, but you have to raise some money. And I think that's going to be very arduous also for him given that Hillary Clinton has taken a lot of the money off the table already.

BLITZER: He's a very good debater, by the way.

DOYLE: Yes.

BLITZER: I remember the 2007, 2008, when he was running, I was moderating some those democratic debates. He did really, really well. He didn't do very well in the in the caucus state of Iowa or New Hampshire, eventually dropped out, but he's -- he's a very, very good debater.

DOYLE: Yes.

BLITZER: Here's Hillary Clinton yesterday on "Face the Nation" talking about being a real person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a real person with all the pluses and minuses that go along with being that. And I've been in the public eye for so long that I think, you know, it's like the feature that you see in some magazines sometime, real people actually go shopping, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, so she's trying to project that new, friendly, nice -- you worked with her for a long time.

DOYLE: Yes.

BLITZER: You know her. You've seen that side of her behind the scenes?

DOYLE: Right. You know, this is a really frustrating topic for me personally because I have known her for more than 25 years, and for 17 years of those years, we've worked really closely together. And I can tell you, she is warm, she is likable, she is funny, she is kind. But her challenge has mostly been for her is to project that self in front of the cameras. That's been her past challenges and I think that's her challenge moving forward. But she was great yesterday on "Face the Nation" She was fantastically funny on Jimmy Fallon last week. So I think -- I think it's coming through.

[13:20:06] BLITZER: That -- that side of her, if it does come through, presumably will help her, right?

CUPP: Yes. Any time you have to say, I am not a witch or I am a real person, something's not going right in your campaign. And, you know, you're right, Hillary has a real difficulty coming off as likable and warm and authentic on camera. She was great on Jimmy Fallon. She should do every late night show there is. She should participate in every bit and sketch they want to do, because she was great at it.

DOYLE: Right.

CUPP: She's got to bring the magic to the campaign trail. She's got to bring it to the big stage when she's giving a speech. She's got to bring it to a one-on-one interview where she doesn't look like she's condescending to the interviewer and the audience for deigning to ask these questions of her. That's her -- that's -- that's always been her biggest problem and it might turn out after all she's not likable enough.

DOYLE: Well, though, I think she has turned the corner on that. You know, gone are the tense press conference. Gone are the bad Instagram jokes. CUPP: Oh, I don't know.

DOYLE: I think she did a great interview with you last week, Wolf. I think she -- and she did a great interview on "Face the Nation." I think she -- she's coming into her own on this piece right now.

CUPP: She's been around for 30 years. I mean she's been running for president for the past 10 years, practically. Why is she just now coming into her own on this?

DOYLE: Well, I think the summer was -- you know, it was a bad summer for her.

CUPP: Yes.

DOYLE: It was the e-mail controversy. I think she was dogged by that. but now we're coming out of it and we're sort of turning the page.

CUPP: O, we'll see.

BLITZER: And we're all looking forward to that debate that's coming up, the first Democratic debate. That's going to be right here on CNN.

All right, guys, thanks very, very much.

Mark your calendars. Just three weeks, CNN and FaceBook will host the first Democratic presidential candidate's debate. That's Tuesday, October 13th in Las Vegas. And for all the latest news and politics, all the presidential contenders, you can always head over to cnnpolitics.com. I highly recommend you do.

Meanwhile, excitement is building here as Pope Francis is getting ready to visit the United States for the first time. He arrives here in Washington tomorrow. Some Republicans, though, would just as soon he skips Washington. So what are they so worried about? We're going to talk about that and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:26:27] BLITZER: Pope Francis has celebrated his second mass in Cuba, thousands turning out to see the pontiff and hear his message. In his homily, the pope called for more religious freedom in a communist nation, which is officially atheists. The mass was held on a very special anniversary for the pontiff. It was on this day back in 1953 that Pope Francis decided to become a priest.

Right now he's in Holguin, which is the home region of Fidel and Raul Castro. Later, he'll fly to Santiago, the last stop of his Cuba trip.

The pope arrives in Washington tomorrow afternoon. And as the excitement builds ahead of his visit to the United States, so does the apprehension. Many Republican lawmakers are concerned about the pontiff's address to a joint session of Congress Thursday morning, specifically his more liberal views on issues like climate change and immigration. While there may be a few uncomfortable moments, the archbishop of New York thinks the address will be positive overall. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: He's got a bit of a challenge. I wouldn't say it's stern reprimand. So I bet you you're going to see a little bit of discomfort on both sides of the aisle in Congress. But in -- in general, he doesn't so much do this as much as affirm and reach out. And that's what I think he's going to do. He's a good teacher. You know, he's a classical Jesuit. He's an effective pedagogue. He knows one of the most -- one of the more effective ways to teach is to reaffirm what's good. To congratulate us on what we're doing well. And when you do that, a savvy person says, boy, that's sure good of him that he's affirm what we do good. On the other hand, are we doing it as well as we should? And there's where the examination of consciousness comes in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As we all know, this pope does go off script from time to time. Let's bring in our senior political reporter. Manu Raju is up on Capitol Hill. They're getting excited up there for this address before this joint meeting of Congress.

Manu, so here's the question. You've written an excellent piece on cnn.com. Why are Republicans, at least some of them, so worried about this?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, look, I mean, this is a historic address. Of course the first time ever a pontiff has addressed a joint sessions of Congress. And, of course, that means that this is going to be a worldwide broadcast. This is going to be dominating the news coverage. It's going to be driving the national conversation. And so when I talked to a lot of these Republican lawmakers, the real concern is that if he -- the pope leads into some of those more progressive views, the ones that you mentioned, Wolf, on climate change, immigration, even criticizing gun manufacturers, capitalism, he does tend to go off script and does tend to weigh into those sometimes fury (ph) views. The fear is that that will actually drive and change the narrative on a lot of those things and put Republicans in a bit of an uncomfortable spot.

Now, overall, most Republicans are looking forward to this address, they just don't know what to expect. So that's what's really causing a lot of the apprehension here when you talk to Republicans looking forward to that Thursday address.

BLITZER: Because, as you know, some Republicans, including Republican presidential candidates Chris Christie yesterday on "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper said, look, while it come to religious issues, he's with the pope, but when it comes to some of these policy or political issues, he disagreeing with the pope. I assume that's what you're hearing from Republicans up on Capitol Hill as well.

RAJU: Yes, that's very similar to what I'm hearing. You know, for instance, I talked to Dan Coats, he's an Indiana senator, last week, and he said to me, he said, look, I want -- I like when religious leaders talk about spirituality. I don't like when they talk about politics. So that is the message that a lot of Republicans are saying.

[13:30:05] But they are using his visit to their political advantage as well.