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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

County Clerk Alters Same-Sex Licenses; Pope on Second Leg Of Cuba Trip; Pope Vows To Cleanse The Church; Sex Abuse Survivors Share Their Stories; CEO Faces Life Sentence In Food Poisoning Outbreak. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 21, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:03] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Guys, I thought that forms are important when it comes to the business of the state, the business of the county. It's why the governor of the state actually reissued those forms after the Supreme Court came down with its decision. To make a little more androgynous, the heses and the hers and the he and the she were homogenize and were assuaged in some way. Can she just go ahead and do that herself?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's a technical answer and there's a practical answer. OK.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Now I'm ready with practical.

JACKSON: From a technical...

CEVALLOS: Go Joey.

JACKSON: ... perspective, the statute is very clear. And the statue says a number of things. Number one, it says that the form has to be prescribed by the department, the Commissioner of the Department of Libraries and Archives and this jurisdiction.

BANFIELD: Not formal.

JACKSON: Clearly that's the form that she altered so the statute clearly says, there has to be a particular form. Number two, Ashleigh, it says "The statute that is the law says that there has to be an authorization statement by the county clerk." Number three, that it has to be signed by a deputy or the county clerk.

BANFIELD: Remember that's happening.

JACKSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Now.

JACKSON: And otherwise number four that it be recorded or otherwise file. So to that extend from a technical perspective she alter changed that you could argue that invalid, but there's a practical point of view with that we'll leave to my colleague.

BANFIELD: What's the practically here? CEVALLOS: The practical view is this, never before have we so scrutinized forms in any attorney like Joey and I, we practice in multiple jurisdictions can tell you that different counties, different localities are a patchwork of this different forms. And one clerk in one county might type something in, someone uses a blue stamp, someone uses a fingerprint, another one uses a smiley face and as all of these forms end up getting sort of frankensteined into things that are not recognizable from county to county.

And now for the first time, we're shining a light on it, and say, "Gee, after all, if you cross out this and doing this with your hand, is it still the same form? The reality is in Kentucky, the clerk has the power of the notary public. And under Kentucky law, she can delegate that power to a deputy. So it seems there's a strong argument that if it emanates from or comes out of the office of the clerk whether it's got a drawing on it

BANFIELD: Smiley thing or drawing.

CEVALLOS: A drawing on it, or a smiley face.

BANFIELD: It's still good to go.

CEVALLOS: A thumbprint, and in theory it should be still to go but then there of course the argument that isn't everybody entitled to the exact same stamp on every form.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CEVALLOS: Who knows?

JACKSON: The licenses are being issue, people are being married and the procedure is moving forward.

BANFIELD: Yeah, that nobody challenged it.

JACKSON: The judge will weigh in exactly.

BANFIELD: Nobody challenged it. Maybe somebody is not happy with the marriage and wants out, and said, "Yeah, we were not marry." I mean there's a -- there marriage thing that could happen here. So well, the first and foremost we'll have to see if she's going back to jail for messing with the forms. All right guys, thank you, Danny and Joey appreciate it.

It is a big week on CNN. The pope is in Cuba, and tomorrow, he arrives in the United States. So we're going to look at the very busy schedule and that Catholics are expecting from the visit.

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[12:36:36] BANFIELD: Pope Francis, now on the second leg of he's historic trip to Cuba. He'll be in the city of Holguin on the eastern and the island for just couple hours, after this outdoor mass and the blessing for the city. He's going to fly on to Santiago where this time tomorrow, he will be taking off for you know where, good all United States, first stop Washington.

There, he will canonize a saint at the national shrine of the Immaculate Conception. And on Thursday, his plan is to address the joint meeting of Congress, and then meet with homeless Americans. And then it is off to New York City, within New York, he's going to address the United Nation. He will visit ground zero and the catholic school in Harlem. They'll celebrate mass. At where else? Madison Square Garden got a good crowd there.

Then he's off to Philly. I want to stop here because we're in New York. I want to bring in CNN religion commentary and catholic priest father Edward Beck. Father Beck, this must be the most exciting time for a guy like you?

EDWARD L. BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTARY AND CATHOLIC PRIEST: It really is, I can't wait for his arrival.

BANFIELD: So you are one that can't wait for he's arrival. There are those in the Vatican who aren't so thrilled with the pope. We hear about his reformed nature, his welcoming sense, how he bringing more people. You know, back perhaps into the catholic fold, and yet, there are those within the Vatican who are not thrilled. What is the problem?

BECK: Well, he has said he has come to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, and he sees some of those in the Vatican as the comfortable. So there job are being threatened. He is saying, stop being such administrators and get out into the job of shepherds. And he is shaking things off in the sense that they are feeling it up that they threatened and I think they don't like the job insecurity that they are getting.

BANFIELD: What's threatening about it? The job insecurity only comes from say being a naysayer, doesn't it?

BECK: Well he's already dismissed some of them from their posts.

BANFIELD: For being naysayer?

BECK: Well for being naysayer and not doing what he wants them to do. His vision about the church needs to do.

BANFIELD: That would happen to me here in CNN, if I didn't do what the boss said to do, I would be out? I mean simple.

BECK: Right? But they're saying, it's more than just a boss. We are your bishops. So in some way, you have act in accord with us. So if you are going to be chang the playing field make sure that were part of the field. And some of them are saying we're being left off the field.

BANFIELD: OK. Well, there he lies the rub? What is happening in that movement now? Or does anybody really know what the back channels are doing? Is there a viable movement to change the way the pope is conducting his office? Is there something that will change what people are seeing as change they like? BECK: Well, I think you're having this split between conservatives and liberals and they're saying, "This pope on certain issues, they're preceding has being very liberal." So they want him to kind of take a back step and not see the things that he is been saying. So we're having a conference coming up on the family and marriage in the senate in October. And divorce and re-married receiving communion. That's in the discussion, some are saying, you can change that. It's always been this way.

BANFIELD: Get the marriages off of the table.

BECK: Gay marriage is off the table but he said, "How can be we be more welcoming of gay people." He saying, "You have to listen to people." "Don't exclude them." He's all about inclusion, that he's message.

BANFIELD: You're expecting a really big bombshells on his fear in terms of announcement for attitudinal changes and like that just particle (ph).

[12:40:00] BECK: Well seem, the attitudinal changes have already occurred within inclusivity, but people are saying maybe after the senate on the family, the priestly celibacy could be on the table. That he has said, it can change that maybe priest in the future can be married. We could see that under this pope get addressed.

BANFIELD: Yes I was find all of these so fascinating, and they seem to be moving less glacial than it has in it, you know, years that I have been alive. Thank you Father Beck.

BECK: You're welcome. My pleasure.

BANFIELD: I always to see have to come back and talk throughout the week.

BECK: I will.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

We're going to cover the pope through out the week as well as he make his way to the U.S, through the U.S and to learn more about Pope Francis.

You can watch our CNN Special Report, "The People's Pope" tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. Pope's visit to Cuba and the to United States comes to the variety of emotions, many enthusiastic but for others, it's a painful reminder of the church's sex abuse scandals, and what little they believe has been done about it.

Two survivors open up to CNN next.

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BANFIELD: When Pope Francis arrives in Philadelphia, the word as he's planning to meet privately with the victims of church sex abuse, that's big, that's really big especially to the advocates who've been pressuring the Vatican to deal more openly and effectively with the clergy who either abused or have abused children. Pope Francis has vowed to do that, but has he?

[12:45:04] Carol Costello, sat down with one victim who said her parish priest raped her when she was just 15.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Megan Peterson's paintings are beautiful but they depict something ugly. Perverted faith, rape, pain.

The paintings are always surrounding you when you're in this room, how is that fatal?

MEGAN PETERSON, ABUSE SURVIVOR: I think, its likely abuse. It's not who I am but it's became a part of me. And it's -- in my mind, I mean sometimes I have to turn them around.

COSTELLO: Peterson says she was raped by her parish priest when she was 15, called a liar by the church.

Her alleged attacker maintaining its innocence but later convicted of sexually assaulting another teenager.

COSTELLO: So Pope Francis, he said that he was going to take care of the sexual abuse problem within the Catholic Church. So as a victim, how do think he's doing?

PETERSON: I always want to say that there is -- there is potential, that he has potential. Because if I feel if I lose that threat of hope as an individual, like it just -- it's too much to bear.

COSTELLO: Pope Francis has vowed to cleanse the church of bishops who fail to protect children. In July, he held a private mass for six victims of church sex abuse.

"I beg your forgiveness," he told them. Over the last decade, the Vatican dismissed more than 848 priests and disciplined some 2,500 members of the clergy. 100,000 children in the United States may have been abused by clergy.

MARIA COLLINS, ABUSE SURVIVOR: I think it's the last chance really for the Catholic Church to get it right.

COSTELLO: Marie Collins is part of a Vatican commission created by Pope Francis to protect children from abusers.

COLLINS: I was totally shocked.

COSTELLO: Did you think it was real?

COLLINS: Not really because I thought I must be the last person that they would be calling on, you know?

COSTELLO: Collins says she was sexually abused by a priest in Ireland. She is an outspoken critic of the church. COSTELLO: So, in your mind, the church is worth saving?

COLLINS: Of course. I mean the church meant a lot to me in -- over many years. As I said that my abuser didn't take my faith away. I nearly lost it by the way the church -- it was a lot easier to forgive my abuser than to forgive the church and to forgive the church leadership for what they did to me.

COSTELLO: Collins says there has been progress, most importantly, the principle of accountability has been accepted. If a bishop covers up abuse, the church holds him responsible. Still, she says, change is shockingly slow. The commission formed over a year ago has yet to be fully funded.

COSTELLO: What? You haven't got funding yet? How long...

COLLINS: No. We -- we're actually our first meeting was May 2014.

COSTELLO: What can you do without funding?

COLLINS: And we have sort of day to day getting along funding, but we don't know what our budget and for the actual work we're doing is going to be.

COSTELLO: Megan Peterson isn't surprised.

Do you still consider yourself catholic?

PETERSON: No, I don't.

COSTELLO: Could you ever again?

PETERSON: I guess I can't see into the future. I don't think so, but I also have absolutely no problem with the religion. I mean, I've never felt that I need to destroy it or it's this terrible thing.

COSTELLO: So if you suffer abuse at the hands of clergy, go to the police?

PETERSON: Go to the police, yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: That's Carol Costello doing some magnificent reporting. In fact she's going to had and written a series of columns as well related to the pope's visit at Pope Francis is here in North America. Carol has a lot of great information.

The first of her column appearing today on cnn.com/opinions, I highly encourage you to take a peek at what Carol has been working on for a couple of months now in fact.

For the first time a food executive, yes a food executive has been convicted on felony charges, dozens of them. All of them linked to a deadly food poisoning outbreak. [12:49:29] And today, he's going to learn what his punishment is for that, we're going to look at what sets this case apart from so many of the others, next.

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BANFIELD: For the first time a company owner, an owner could be sentenced to life in prison for food poisoning that led to a salmonella outbreak.

This man, Stewart Parnell is in federal court in Georgia today, he owns the Peanut Corporation of America. And a jury convicted him and two others of knowingly shipping tainted peanut paste.

He did that from their plant in Blakely, Georgia. That paste was used to make peanut butter and other product, and nine people died.

And that's not all. Another 714 people in 46 states got sick.

Prosecution builds the case on an e-mail that Mr. Parnell wrote in March of 2007 to a plant manager about contaminated products, and that e-mail said just ship it.

HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson and CNN Legal Analyst Danny Cevallos are back with me.

We do not typically hear this. We do not typically hear that leaders of corporations go to jail. We hear about money, we heard about G.M. and 900 million last week to settle these criminal issues. But this is huge.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, it's absolutely is, but it's about accountability. You know, there are many premises of the criminal justice system. Of course we have punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation.

When you're shipping food out and that's one thing to be negligent, that is, you know, you're not that careful which is unacceptable to begin with, but that's more civil. And then of course you just don't know, but, you know, you could have exercised more care. It's quite another to know that there's some contamination that can hurt, that can harm people, that can kill people and what do you say as you just mentioned, just ship it.

That's unacceptable. And I think when it comes to the issue of punishment, it's proper, when it comes to the issue of rehabilitation, to prevent this from happening anymore it's proper as well.

[12:55:00] BANFIELD: So Danny, I mean this is not small, he is looking at the potential of a life sentence, I mean enough charges, 72 different charges.

And his brother who is involved as well, Michael Parnell could face 17 years, Mary Wilkerson who was the plant manager could be behind bars for five years.

Is this the beginning of something new or is this just because they just had great evidence.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the Department of Justice has increasingly gone after white collar type crimes whether it be state or federal officials or companies that they say are committing what they call white collar crimes.

But in a case like this, you can look at these two ways, why such a high potential exposure for shipping peanut butter, but then the other part is, people got hurt. And remember where in federal court where the sentences are serious business with these many counts of conviction and these many levels and victims, I mean several hundred. The sentencing guidelines absolutely can get you up to a life sentence very quickly in federal court.

BANFIELD: Well, I mean you think about it 72 different counts of conspiracy, fraud and other federal charges as well, nine dead and 714 people sick. So that's -- those are extraordinary circumstances. Real quick.

JACKSON: And Ashleigh the jury is saying, guilty, guilty, guilty across the board. It's significant.

BANFIELD: Joey, thank you, appreciate it and Danny as always, thank you. And thank you everyone, for watching. It's been great to have you here with us.

My colleague Wolf Blitzer starts right after this quick break.

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