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CNN NEWSROOM

Mother, Boyfriend Formally Charged Over the Death of Baby Doe; Muslim Group to Demand Ben Carson to Withdraw; Pope Francis' Favorable Rating Drops; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:01] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Muslim leaders calling for Carson to drop out, as Trump says, he loves Muslims but --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have radicals that are doing things. I mean, it wasn't people from Sweden that blew up the World Trade Center.

COSTELLO: Also, the man accused of killing Baby Bella allegedly thought she was possessed. He's in court this morning, along with Bella's mother. We'll take you there, live.

Plus, Pope Francis heads to the United States this week where he'll address a Joint Session of Congress. Some are asking, so what happened to the separation go church and state?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Happening moments ago, the mother of that little girl who became known as Baby Doe, along with her boyfriend, stood before a judge. Rachelle Bond, the mother, and Michael McCarthy, her boyfriend, have not been formally charged. He is facing a murder charge, she's been charged with accessory after death. The prosecutor briefing the judge. Here's a bit of what he had to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By way of brief background, on June 25th of this year, a woman walking her dog on Deer Island found a plastic contractor's construction bag and noted that her dog had run over to it and was pawing at it. Very interesting, the contents. She went over to the bag after asking another person to come with her. Opened the bag partially and saw what appeared to be the limb of a small child.

She immediately called 911. Massachusetts State Police and other first responders responded. And they opened the bag and found the body of an unknown, unidentified, approximately 3 to 4-year-old child, based on their estimates of her size. She was partially -- she was in the beginning stages of decomposition. She was wearing white leggings with black polka dots and with no shirt. And there were two blankets, a zebra print blanket and another blanket in the bag with her. Moisture had entered the bag but it was -- clearly the remains essentially sealed at the time it was found.

Investigation revealed that the bag that was seen in that same spot of the beach the previous noontime, that is the 24th of June, indicating to investigators that the bag had been either washed up on the beach or in some event on the beach for approximately 24 hours. There ensued a three-month exhaustive search comprising thousands of -- maybe tens of thousands of detective hours spent trying to identify the girl without success.

Detectives traced leads all across Massachusetts. They had hundreds of tips and leads and conducted scores of well-being checks on small girls. They also put out an advisory that had a picture of the forensic reconstruction of the girl's face. That's what a forensic reconstruction expert believed the girl most likely looked like in life. Accounting for some effective decomposition on her body. They were unable to recover fingerprints because of infected skin slippage.

The detectives worked tirelessly to try to identify her, but they were unable to do so until the morning of -- well, until Wednesday, the 16th of this month, just last Wednesday. And actually --

COSTELLO: We're going to jump away from this to talk a little bit about -- to talk more about what's happening. You saw a couple of people in the courtroom. The camera was panning to them. The man with the long hair, of course, is Mike McCarthy, that's the boyfriend. The woman in the gray hoodie in the back behind the Plexiglas is indeed the girl's mother. And the bald man in the blue shirt was the girl's biological father. There he is. He said that Rachelle Bond, the mother, would never hurt a child but of course she is charged in relation to this little girl's case.

I want to go to Jean Casarez so you can tell our viewers exactly what this hearing is for.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the arraignment and so this is initial appearance where they're apprised of their charges. You see they're behind glass right there which happens occasionally but it's a little unusual. But we heard some backstory here. This just came to authorities -- the information of all this last week. And it was a life-long friend of the boyfriend in this case, Michael McCarthy, who had lived with the couple. And he accompanied them very recently to Boston Medical Center.

And the mother, who is charged with accessory after the fact to murder, was saying, oh, I'm so glad. I'm just -- I haven't done drugs in several days now. And so the life-long friends said, well, that's great because now you can get Bella back because she's with the Department of Children and Family.

[10:05:04] And the mother started breaking down and she said, I can't get Bella back, Bella is dead. So he went to the boyfriend, McCarthy, and McCarthy said, no, she's with the Department of Children and Family. And that's when she went back to the mother and the mother said that she had gone into the bedroom and she had seen one night in June, the boyfriend standing over Bella. Bella's face was red. Her demeanor was just very sullen. She picked her up, she realized she was dead. And that friend then

went to his sister and the sister went to Boston Police and the friend is now saying, allegedly, that they believe she was possessed by the devil and she would be put in a room for hours on end, she would be yelled at, screamed at, she would be physically hurt. But that's how this case came to light. When they saw that forensic recreation of that little girl, this is the friend that lived with the couple.

COSTELLO: Right.

CASAREZ: And his sister.

COSTELLO: So, Joey, the DA in this case is asking for no bond for Mike McCarthy and $1 million bond for the mother. Do you think that those requests will be granted?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's appropriate. It absolutely is. And you have to think about it first in terms of the father, it's a murder charge. And as a murder charge, there's no death penalty, of course, in Massachusetts, but you face the possibility of life imprisonment, Carol, without the possibility of any type of parole.

As to the mother, because she's an accessory, not in fact charged with the actual killing, but with harboring, concealing and otherwise knowing the boyfriend committed this offense and really trying to conceal him from the police. That's punishable by up to seven years. So I think it certainly is appropriate to ask for that and I think it would be certainly within the judge's discretion to grant that request of the prosecution.

COSTELLO: It's unbelievable. It really is. Jean Casarez, Joey Jackson, thanks so much. We're going to keep an eye on this hearing.

We're also following the Pope's trip to Cuba. He's in a city making history yet again because he's never been to that particular city, Holguin in Cuba. He's greeting the crowds right now we suppose and then he'll hold a mass in Revolution Square.

I'll be back with more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:11:39] COSTELLO: Just minutes from now the nation's most powerful Muslim rights group will formally demand that Republican Ben Carson abandon his presidential bid that he drop out. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, CAIR, is outraged by Carson's lightning rod comments that he wouldn't even consider electing a Muslim to the White House. Here's what Carson said on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC ANCHOR: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the Constitution?

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

TODD: And you -- would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for Congress?

CARSON: Congress is a different story but it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Athena Jones live in Washington with more. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. What's so interesting about this is not just that Carson made those comments but that he hasn't backed down. Listen to some of what he told 'The Hill" newspaper here in Washington. I'm going to read that for you. He said, "Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official. And that's inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution."

Carson went on to say that he'd only be OK with a Muslim being president if he public rejected all of the tenets of Sharia law and live his life consistent with that. So these are comments that really have stunned a lot of people but it's in line in many ways with what Donald Trump has said. Donald Trump came under fire a few days ago because a man in one of his town halls said that President Obama was a Muslim. Donald Trump did not correct him. And the man also advocated getting rid of all Muslims in America.

Take a listen to how Donald Trump defended himself, his decision not to clarify or correct this man on "Today" show. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've never had a problem with Muslims. You do have an individual problem where you have some radicals that are causing problems and I can be politically correct. Somebody said, how can you say that, and I said, give me a break, it's all over the world. That's all we're talking about. You turn on the nightly news, you turn on the newscast, no matter where you are, you have a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And so Trump is saying, look, I don't have a problem with Muslims, I have a problem with radical Muslims. The bottom line is both of these candidates are people who take pride in not being politically correct. And the fact is that a lot of the voters they're appealing to agree with them. A Gallup poll early this summer found that only 45 percent of Republicans could see themselves voting for a Muslim for president. And our own polling shows that 54 percent of Trump supporters believe that President Obama is Muslim. So in some ways we -- maybe we shouldn't be surprised to hear these two candidates speaking in this way -- Carol.

COSTELLO: OK. So speaking of polls, CNN did another poll and it actually shows that Trump's and Carson's favorability ratings among voters is lessening.

JONES: That's right. They're not quite as popular as they were before. We've been watching Trump rise in the polls month after month all summer but our latest polling shows that he is still number one. He still got at the top with 24 percent but he's dropped eight points since just early September. That's a lot of points to drop in a short period of time. You can see there Carly Fiorina impressing a lot of people in the debate, rising 12 points. Carson losing about five.

[10:15:03] But I should mention that it's still those top candidates, are still those outsider, non-politician candidates, folks who have never been elected to public office. So that trend at least is holding.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones, reporting live from Washington, thank you.

A spokesperson for Ben Carson is defending those controversial comments. Earlier today Carson's business manager, Armstrong Williams, told CNN's Alisyn Camerota Carson isn't afraid to ruffle feathers and that he's not going to take back what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: This is why he's not trying to be politically correct. This is America. It's a place of freedom of speech.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: And freedom of religion.

WILLIAMS: And you express what you believe and how you feel. No --

CAMEROTA: And freedom of religion.

WILLIAMS: This is not an issue -- it is not an issue of religion to Dr. Carson. This is an issue of one's belief system. How they would govern. Your beliefs, what you believe in, how you look upon people, how you value people is dictated by what you believe. You search yourself deeply. And ask yourself, at this time, in the history of our country, in the question that was posed to him, which he asked and answered truthfully is that he would not be comfortable with someone who shares the Islamic Muslim faith in the White House.

CAMEROTA: Is Dr. Carson only --

WILLIAMS: And if Dr. Carson -- let me finish. Dr. Carson, because of his love for America, he is willing, everything is not about winning the White House for him. It's about standing up for what he believes in, telling the truth even if it makes CNN and others uncomfortable. It is what he believes.

CAMEROTA: Is Dr. Carson comfortable with anyone other than a Christian being president?

WILLIAMS: It is not about Christian. It is not about Jew. It is not about religion. It is about what one believes and what they would advocate if they become president of these United States, a place that you and I, and I have no doubt about it, love and cherish and wants to protect. And Dr. Carson is saying what he believes and he believes it, Alisyn, and he will not take it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Joining me now to discuss, national political reporter for Real Clear Politics, Rebecca Berg. I'm also joined by Republican strategist, Kayleigh McEnany, she's also a Trump supporter.

Welcome to both of you and thank you so much for being here.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Thank you. So, Kayleigh, do believe a Muslim should be president?

MCENANY: I agree with Dr. Carson. And his point I think is fairly uncontroversial. You just heard the clarification in "The Hill." He said he's uncomfortable with a president that abides by Sharia law, because it calls for Sharia laws to be elevated above American law. Sharia law calls for cutting off one's hand if they steal.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: He didn't say Sharia law. He said Muslims.

MCENANY: He said Muslims. Muslim means Sharia law.

BERG: No, it doesn't.

COSTELLO: Not necessarily. We know it does not.

MCENANY: That is the legal code for the Muslim faith. So when he clarified to "The Hill," he said he is uncomfortable with a president who professes Sharia law. If they were to renounce that, he would be OK with the Muslims. That's an uncontroversial point.

COSTELLO: So you think, Kayleigh, that all Muslims believe in Sharia law?

MCENANY: I don't, but it is certainly a prevalent part of the Islamic faith and it's a fair question to ask someone who wants to be president of the United States. And by the way, the CAIR representative earlier, I just want to point out, completely told a falsehood. He said Ben Carson is advocating for a violation of Article 6 calling for a religious test if he wants to be president. That's simply untrue. Ben Carson didn't say that. Ben Carson said he would never advocate for a Muslim president if they profess Sharia law.

COSTELLO: No. He said -- he said he would not want a Muslim serving as president of the United States. MCENANY: Right, now --

COSTELLO: Rebecca, isn't that what you heard?

BERG: That's what I heard, absolutely. And it's very interesting because Ben Carson over the course of his campaign has established himself as a very religious candidate. He appeals very strongly to evangelical Christian voters. But at same time, he has said and he has been very careful to say that if he were elected president, he would not let his religion necessarily interfere with the laws of this country. And so to think and to say that a Muslim would not do the same if they were elected president seems inconsistent at the very least.

COSTELLO: Well, and just to be clear about the constitution and what it says, it's Article 6, it forbids a religious test as a requirement of holding a government position. That's what the Constitution says. So no religion should be taken into account, Kayleigh, when it comes to electing a president.

MCENANY: But not wanting a president that professes this faith is different than requiring a religious test. It's not a violation of the Constitution. It's simply Ben Carson's preference. Those are very different things. And as to the previous guest's point, as to Rebecca's point, I really think it's important to put this into context and to see that Ben Carson separated his faith and his government office and he is merely calling for someone -- a Muslim who wants to be president to do the same since Sharia law actively calls for practicing it in your public life.

COSTELLO: See, I might be a little open to that but, Rebecca, you just heard Athena Jones, 54 percent of Trump supporters believe President Obama is a Muslim. There's something going on here, right?

[10:20:00] BERG: Yes. I mean, what Ben Carson is speaking to with this remark, what Donald Trump is speaking to in some of his remarks even, is really this unfortunate trend among some Republican voters in really being anti-Muslim. And so it's appealing to sort of the worst qualities of some voters and making them feel that it's OK to feel that way. Maybe Ben Carson will win some support from this, but I think he'll risk losing a lot of support from this, too. And especially when, you know, his business manager, Armstrong Williams, was asked, well, does this mean that you wouldn't let a Muslim serve in Congress? That, you know, we should ask if it would preclude a Muslim from serving on the Supreme Court?

If you look at the other branches of government, we're going to need to pose this question to Ben Carson as well. I think he's going to get a lot of scrutiny from this.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Rebecca Berg, Kayleigh McEnany, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

BERG: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders -- let's turn to the Democrats. Bernie Sanders pumped up a crowd, about 3,000 last night at the University of New Hampshire. What's interesting about this, "The Washington Post" says the crowd was about five times the size of what Hillary Clinton drew on the very same campus just two days earlier. But while Sanders is gaining ground in that early election state, Hillary Clinton appears to be gaining momentum nationwide.

According to a new CNN/ORC poll, Clinton now leads with 42 percent support of registered voters from early September. She has gained a bit and Sanders has lost a bit. That poll includes Joe Biden, though, as a candidate. If the vice president decides not to run, Clinton's lead becomes even more dominant, doubling the support for Sanders.

Pope Francis is still incredibly popular around the world, so why is his favorability rating dropping among Americans ahead of tomorrow's historic visit? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:07] COSTELLO: At any moment now, Pope Francis is expected to hold mass with thousands of fellow Catholics in Holguin, Cuba. A city that no other pope has ever visited. But the pontiff's historic trip of course does not end in this small island nation. Tomorrow he will head here to the United States.

CNN's Rosa Flores has more of what lies ahead for the Pope in America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Pope's visit to the U.S. was supposed to be all about Philadelphia and families. But insert a stop in Cuba, a cameo before U.S. Congress, and a speech at the U.N., and the visit could create a trinity of tension.

First Havana, where the Vatican's influence helped ease 60 plus years of Cold War animosity between the U.S. and Cuba.

MICHAEL MURPHY, DIRECTOR, CATHOLIC STUDIES, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, CHICAGO: There is a checkered and complicated past but that's the past and the Pope was about living in the present and moving forward.

FLORES: During President Raul Castro's Vatican meeting with Francis earlier this year, the communist leader said he plans to attend every mass celebrated by Francis.

With Castro in the pews, will the Pope scorn the country's history of human rights violations and lack of religious freedom?

Pope Francis told students in Cuba Thursday through video conference, he'd like to see friendship between the U.S. and Castro's communist nation saying --

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER (Through Translator): One of the most beautiful things is social friendships. This is what I would like to be able to achieve, social friendship.

FLORES: Whatever the Pope says in Cuba will set the stage for a major address before a divided House in American Congress. During his recent visit to South America, Francis called capitalism the dung of the devil, but will he utter those words inside the nation's capital?

And what about those presidential candidates?

TRUMP: We have to build a wall, folks.

FLORES: That charged anti-immigration rhetoric, polar opposite to the Pope.

MURPHY: I'm not sure if he's worried about alienating people. I mean, he'll be encouraging but he speaks the truth.

FLORES: His speech before the United Nations, at a time hundreds of thousands of Christians are fleeing persecution in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Will he put world leaders in the hot seat, asking them to do more to help refugees? Or will he praise the nations who have already accepted thousands?

No one really knows what Francis will say during his more than 20 speeches. If he speaks off the cuff, Cuba, Congress and the United Nations better get ready for a "coming to Jesus" moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Nice ending, Rosa Flores.

Pope Francis, while still popular, is not the undisputed homecoming king anymore. As he steps foot on American soil, the Pope's approval ratings here according to Gallup have taken a tumble from 76 percent in February of 2014 to 59 percent today. Much of that can be attributed to the Pope's political views, although Pope Francis would say he has decidedly not political.

But the Pope's views on climate change, and his comments on capitalism, gay people and undocumented immigrants have angered many Americans, have made them feel very uncomfortable.

Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He joins me now. Welcome, sir.

DR. R. ALBERT MOHLER JR., PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Carol, great to be with you again.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you hear with me again. I appreciate your being here this morning. Why do you think, Dr. Mohler, that the Pope's approval ratings have fallen, especially among conservatives?

MOHLER: Well, I think the biggest issue there is the fact that the Pope has raised all kinds of expectations, some kind of major liberal transformation of the church. And frankly, I think that is -- that's probably his agenda. On the other hand, he is, as a writer for the "Boston Globe" called him, the pendulum pope. He swings back and forth on so many of these issues. And so the Catholic Church continues to teach very traditional views on homosexuality and any number of other issues, continues to define marriage as only the union of a man and a woman.