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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Fiorina Goes After Trump in Debate; Is Scott Walker's Campaign in Trouble; Presidential Race Amounts to Insiders Versus Outsiders; Will Lindsey Graham Move Up to First-Tier. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:31:58] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning some people are calling it the Carly crush. Carly Fiorina with a powerful performance as the newest addition to the main debate stage. There was a big applause line that came when she was asked about Trump's comments to "Rolling Stone" about her face. Of course, you remember Trump said, "Would anybody vote for that?" This was Carly Fiorina's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER CEO, HEWLETT- PACKARD: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

(APPLAUSE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I think she's got a beautiful face and I think she's a beautiful woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was Fiorina and Trump last night, of course. Fiorina also had more to say on this topic just a short time ago right here on CNN. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: It's still different for women. It's only a woman whose appearance would be talked about while running for president. Never a man. The point is, women are half this nation. Women are half the potential of this nation. But somehow we still spend a lot of time talking about women's appearance instead of their qualifications.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's talk much more about this and the debate performance with Republican Congresswoman Mia Love, from Utah.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us.

What did you make of that moment last night? It was the moment most everyone was waiting to see, how was Carly Fiorina going to respond. What did you think?

REP. MIA LOVE, (R), UTAH: Hi, Kate. You know, I thought it was absolutely brilliant. It's funny because I deal with the same things all the time. People are really surprised all the time when I've done my hope work, when I know the issues. I'm not surprised by Carly's performance. A lot of people are surprised by it. This is the Carly I know. This is the Carly who knows the issues. She did very well. She and Marco showed they can be compassionate, shared personal experiences. Very well versed on the issues. When it comes to the economy, they know they need to step out of the way and allow the free markets to do what it does best, which is lift people out of poverty and they have solutions. They showed they have solutions how to fix these problems. I was incredibly encouraged. And I saw the Carly that I've actually seen ever since I met her.

BERMAN: When Donald Trump sort of trying to clean up the whole face thing, his response was to say actually, Carly, I think you're beautiful. I want to know what your reaction was at that moment.

LOVE: I laughed, I laughed, I smiled, because she was absolutely right. Every single American heard that, especially every single American woman heard that loud and clear. This was a great example of how somebody needs a little more than just going out and showboating. They need a little more substance. And at the end of the day, I think America saw these candidates for who they really are and what they can offer as the president of the United States of America.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, they went through the issues. They went deep into policy issues. One thing that also came up, though -- obviously, this is a debate so there's a lot of attacking each other's record. Carly Fiorina's record at Hewlett-Packard also came into question. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:35:18] FIORINA: I led Hewlett-Packard through a very difficult time, the worst technology recession in 25 years.

TRUMP: She can't run any of my companies, that I can tell you.

FIORINA: You ran up mountains of debt as well as losses using other people's money and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once --

TRUMP: I never filed for bankruptcy.

FIORINA: -- not twice, but four times. A record four times.

TRUMP: I made over $10 billion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, that record, that hurt her -- well, doomed her campaign for the Senate back in 2010. It's coming back up. Is this going to dog her now?

LOVE: No. I think that everyone's record needs to come into play here. I use my record in Saratoga Springs, and I use those experiences there in my job here. I think those records, especially the positives of what she's done, should come to light. I think people need to use their experiences, but more than being out in the -- in the world and working with Hewlett-Packard and she went beyond that and showed she understood foreign policy and understood what it takes to actually be able to run this country. Like I said, there were several people that stood out for me in this debate. I was encouraged to see her, to see Marco Rubio, even Chris Christie, come out and do some great things. And show that they have some substance and really blew beyond the politics of it all and really started going into the issues and how to solve them.

BOLDUAN: A lot of those -- a lot of people had moments. It wasn't the Trump debate, as everyone thought it was the first time around. A lot of folks having moments, one being Carly Fiorina.

Congresswoman, it's great to see you. Thanks much.

LOVE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

Coming up for us, talking about Trump. So, Trump, did he tone it down while his rivals came out swinging. And did Jeb Bush break through, find that energy and turn things around for his stalling campaign? We're going to discuss.

BERMAN: Plus, the candidate a lot of people who thought dominated the first debate, the undercard, what we just learned may be the final undercard debate. Will Lindsey Graham be on the stage one month from now? We'll ask him when he joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:41:27] BOLDUAN: We're live from the Reagan Presidential Library following last night's big debate. Much of the post-debate talk has focused on three candidates, Carly Fiorina, Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. But there was so much more.

BERMAN: We're not nice people sometimes, so we want to talk about people who may not be here next time. Who did their campaigns no good? Who did not break through?

Here to discuss that with us, Ana Navarro, who is supporting Jeb Bush and is friends with Marco Rubio; also Jeffrey Lord, CNN analyst.

You like who you like. Neither of the people you like you think are going to drop out.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: I want to talk about Scott Walker, though. Scott Walker, the bar was very high. His people said he was going to come out and be different, be energetic, be part of this debate. He did have one moment early on a lot of people are talking about. Let's watch that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT WALKER, (R), WISCONSIN GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump, we don't need an apprentice in the White House. We don't need an apprentice in the White House. We have one right now. He told us all the things we wanted to hear in 2008. We don't know who you are, where you're going. We need someone who can actually get the job done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, that was what is largely considered his best moment. A lot of people think his only moment.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Which was like in the first -- in the first five minutes --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

NAVARRO: -- and then there were another three hours of debate where he disappeared.

BERMAN: Walker supporters say he didn't get asked a lot of questions. Carly Fiorina jumped in almost every discussion there. Is Scott Walker in trouble?

NAVARRO: You know, I think he is. I think he is because a lot of what -- what his candidacy was based on was his very strong numbers in Iowa. He was supposed to be the leader in Iowa. He gave a good speech there at the beginning of the cycle and it led to strong numbers. Those have plummeted. I don't know where he's getting his donors and his fund-raising from. He has made a lot of self-inflicted errors. A lot of wounding to his own campaign, hasn't taken positions, you know, has shifted positions and then can't even stick with the ones he shifted to. And he's not performing well in these debates. He got the last time to speak yesterday, and it's what you said, it's the nice Midwesterner not butting in.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: People were making time for themselves, even if they weren't asked.

NAVARRO: That was the point of this debate. And I think Jake and the moderators did a very good job at that, at promoting cross-talk and debate amongst themselves, not debate with the moderator.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Another name we were talking about this morning, Rand Paul. His big moment, it seemed like, when he attacked Donald Trump at the very beginning of that debate and then he didn't land a blow.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. He sort of wound up being the Trump attack guy. And, you know, like Rick Perry, I don't think it helps him. I think Ana's right about Scott Walker, and what this says to me, again, as we've been talking about now for several days, what we're seeing evolve here is outsiders versus outsiders. Insiders, even a governor, is not making the cut here. So, that anybody who's held elected office of any kind is having a problem. That includes Jeb Bush, that includes all of these folks.

NAVARRO: What you describe as insiders, I think, you know, a lot of them had very good debates last night. I think my Florida guys, my 305 guys, you know, came in strong, and brought it.

BERMAN: What about Ben Carson, doesn't Ben Carson have a place in Florida, too? Is he in the 305?

NAVARRO: No.

BERMAN: OK, but he's in Florida. He has a golf place in Florida. How did he do?

NAVARRO: He's not in the 305.

(LAUGHTER)

We're very selective.

BERMAN: How did Ben Carson do?

[11:45:04] NAVARRO: I don't think he does very well. I think he disappeared for large moments of time. It wasn't a good format for him. It was a good format for folks with sharp elbows who can insert themselves into the conversation. He's a really nice guy. He may be too nice for this stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: I mean, he was barely even heard from.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: He has the same problem I think Donald Trump had in this one. This was a very policy-focused, detailed debate. And, frankly, they were over their skis. They were beyond their skis. That's why Donald Trump disappeared for long stretches of time as well, which is a minor miracle in itself.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: But he had his message. I should say, just before I came on, I was on a radio talk show in Birmingham, Alabama, the "Matt Murphy Show," and they liked Carly. Listening to the people calling in, Carly, they still like Donald Trump. They're pretty strong on Donald Trump down there. But they also like Ben Carson. He's a little mystified for exactly the reason Ana is saying --

BOLDUAN: Here's the important part. As we learned at the top of the show from Sean Spicer, of the RNC, there might be a smaller field on the next debate stage.

LORD: Exactly. It's coming.

BOLDUAN: It is coming.

Great to see you guys.

LORD: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Get some rest.

Lots of buzz also about this guy, Senator Lindsey Graham, his performance in the early debate last night. The South Carolina Senator was taking no prisoners. He's going to join us live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:20] BOLDUAN: You've heard about Uber, now there's a new ride service catering to children.

BERMAN: It's called Shuddle.

CNN's Samuel Burke shows us how it gets little ones where they need to go safely.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Would you let a stranger drive your kids around? That's exactly what Mary Inman does. She uses Shuddle, an app like Uber, to arrange rides for her two boys.

(on camera): When you first heard the idea for this Shuddle service, were you like who would let their kids go with a stranger?

MARY INMAN, USED SHUDDLE SERVICE: No.

(LAUGHTER)

Being city dwellers, my kids are familiar with taxis and Ubers and Lifts.

BURKE: There's a big step from being with your kid in an Uber to sending them alone in this Shuddle service.

INMAN: Are you saying what kind of irresponsible parent am I?

(LAUGHTER)

BURKE: That's what everybody wants to know.

INMAN: These people have designed a really great system that the people who are driving are women who have a lot of experience with children. So it does take a little bit of getting used to. But I think my kid's experience has made us all feel very comfortable about it.

BURKE (voice-over): The boys say riding the Shuddle is like carpooling with neighbors.

(on camera): Is there any type of special thing you have to tell them so they know it's you, you know it's them?

DEVIN INMAN, SHUDDLE RIDER: Yes, they usually say the pass code thing.

MILES INMAN, SHUDDLE RIDER: They have the app and we know our passwords and the passwords are on there with a picture of us.

UNIDENTIFIED SHUDDLE DRIVER: All right, so we've got "pickle" for Miles.

MILES INMAN: Yep.

UNIDENTIFIED SHUDDLE DRIVER: And "chicken" for Devin.

DEVIN INMAN: Yes.

BURKE (voice-over): Shuddle vets every driver before trusting them to drive kids. There's also technology in place to assist and monitor the humans.

CARLY LUTZ, SVP OF FAMILY EXPERIENCE, SHUDDLE: Every single Shuddle ride is monitored at Shuddle headquarters. Rides can be monitored by parents on their app.

BURKE: The service is only available in California's Bay Area for now. Shuddle's ambition and its challenge is to scale without losing track of a single ride.

Samuel Burke, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right. The candidate who came out for a strong national offense in support of procreation and drinking. Senator Lindsey Graham joins us next live.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:56:08] BERMAN: All right. We've been telling you we were going to have an interview with the candidate a lot people thought had one of the best debate performances last night.

BOLDUAN: And we were lying. No.

BERMAN: But just into CNN, a dramatic reading of a tweet from Senator Graham.

BOLDUAN: Please do it in the character.

BERMAN: "Got stuck in the Senate and had to miss my CNN interview. Sorry, Kate Bolduan and John Berman, but will catch up with you soon. #CNN debate."

NAVARRO: I'm a friend of Lindsey Graham. You got that accent all wrong.

BOLDUAN: That is not a Lindsey Graham --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: -- after his quip last night about the drinking and the bar, There's a joke there, I will not make it.

Guys, let me ask --

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Apparently, Donald Trump has taught him how to tweet.

BERMAN: It's OK, Senator. We'll talk to you soon.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: There was some news made on this show at the beginning of the hour. We had Sean Spicer, chief strategist for the RNC, who told us the next debate a month and a half from now may not have an undercard. That that pre-debate, that behind Graham --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: What does that mean for Lindsey Graham?

BERMAN: -- Carly Fiorina won the first time. How significant a development is that?

NAVARRO: I think it's starting to make sense, right? You had the first two debates. I think they were very fair about trying to include everyone. But at some point, if you are less than 1 percent in the polls, you've got to come to the realization that you're not going anywhere and it's nice to have -- to use this as a maybe, you know, business marketing plan as I think maybe George Pataki is or, you know, Bobby Jindal. I can't even remember who the third person on there is, oh, Rick Santorum. But, you know, guys, you know, you may need to get yourselves another day job.

BOLDUAN: But Ana, unless -- obviously, you wait to see the polls and what happens post-debate, but that could also mean your friend, Lindsey Graham.

NAVARRO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: If he doesn't get a bump.

(CROSSTALK) NAVARRO: Absolutely. He had a great debate yesterday. We saw Carly emerge from the first debate, the first undercard debate, and if anybody's going to emerge from last night's undercard debate, it's going to be Lindsey. He spoke the most. He was, you know, I ran into him aft the debate and I said I am so glad Lindsey Graham showed up. Because in the first debate, he was devoid of Lindsey Graham, the witty smart, you know, who knows how to dig guy.

BERMAN: Unlike now, on our show.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: One of the problems here now is we have so many people running for the debate and the job is to be elected president of the United States and if you're 1 percent in the polls, you're failing at one of those tasks.

BERMAN: So the interesting thing, though, is this. There was a separation because of the size of the stage, 10 or 11 candidates. At some point, can they set it at a percentage in the polls? And some of those guys on the main stage last night, they weren't far away from Lindsey Graham in the polls, at 3 percent or 2 percent.

Is there a number you would like to see this in a month, Jeffrey?

LORD: I'd like to see about five people on that stage. I'd like to see Donald Trump and Carly and Jeb and then we'll see would the others might be.

NAVARRO: You're not going to see five people. In one month. You might see five people in six months. I've got great news for you, America, we've got at least eight more Republican debates to come, maybe as many as 10.

(LAUGHTER)

So, you know, we can see this whittled down --

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Hopefully, not for three hours each.

BOLDUAN: But you can absolutely anticipate in conjunction with CNBC and this next debate that they don't have an undercard debate, they're going to take a lot of heat from these campaigns.

LORD: Yes, they will but, hey, life is tough.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Believe me, when you're the RNC, you get a lot of heat from campaigns no matter what you do.

BERMAN: Ana Navarro, Jeffrey Lord, thank you so much for being with us.

Senator, we do look forward to speaking with you.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: He's got to teach you the southern accent because you've got it so wrong.

BOLDUAN: I don't know, Senator, you're going to have to --

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: This Boston thing is just not working.

BOLDUAN: I'll do the accent next time. I got it down a little better.

Thanks, everybody, for joining us at this hour.

BERMAN: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.