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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

GOP Candidates Face Off Tomorrow on CNN; Trump Boasts Of Polls, Dismisses Challengers; 37 Pi Delta Psi Fraternity Members Face Charges. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 15, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:33] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: With just one day to go before the big debate on CNN. Donald Trump is hanging on to his lead both in Iowa and right across the country too.

And that means for his Republican contenders, this is the next big chance to shake up the leader board. We're going to checkout their strategies in just a moment.

But first, I wanted to get you a look back at some of the few crucial moments from the last debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone on stage, and I can see hands, who is unwilling tonight to pledge your sour support to the eventual nominee of the Republican Party and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person.

Raise your hand if you won't make that pledge tonight.

Mr. Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what's wrong, he buys and sells politicians of all stripes.

JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They call me Veto Corleone, because I vetoed 2,500 separate line items in the budget, I my own man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.

Your Tweeter account...

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only Rosie O'Donnell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time that we recognize the Supreme Court is not the Supreme Being and we change the policy to be pro-life and protect children instead of ripped up their body parts and sell them like parts to the buick.

TRUMP: If it weren't for me, you wouldn't even be talking about illegal immigration, Chris. You wouldn't even be talking about it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't trust President Obama with all records, I know you gave him a big hug, and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Senator Paul, you have the hugs that I remember or the hugs that I gave to the families who lost their people on September 11th.

SCOTT WALKER, GOV. (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's sad to think to right now but probably the Russian and the Chinese government, know more about Hillary Clinton's e-mail server than do the members of the United States' congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I think you're on the wrong side of this, if you're still arguing for the single-player service.

TRUMP: I'm not, I don't you heard me, you're having a hard time tonight.

BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only one to take out half of a brain although you would think if you go to Washington that someone had beat me to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That was some good T.V. folks. And, you know what, tomorrow they've got a chance to be a star or a stumble as they face off against each other tomorrow night live on CNN.

So what are they doing right, what are they doing right now, and how are they prepping for this debate. What are their nerves like, as they rehearse their answers right on cue cards work on clever one-liners, who's putting in the long hours, who's going to be winging it?

I want to bring in Jeffrey Lord, CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House Political Director and Mitch Stewart, who's the former Battleground State's Director for President Obama 2012 campaign. He was Iowa state caucus director for the 2008 Obama campaign as well.

Jeffrey, I want to start with you with your background in, you know, Reagan's administration. And take me back to that time, too because he was entertainer too. Reagan was famous he was a star, very much like Donald Trump is. How much did they prep, do you think Donald Trump might be doing compared to what Ronald Reagan was doing as we head to the Ronald Reagan Library tomorrow?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, here is the debate story about Ronald Reagan, it was in 1984, and he had two debates with Walter Mondale. And the first one, he prepped like crazy, and they threw all sorts of statistics at him and your administration did this, that and the other thing.

And you he had a terrible debate performance. So bad that the media was asking the question is he too old to be president. So as the next one came along and I believe it was Roger Ailes who advised him on this. And Mrs. Reagan was furious, as I remember the tale. Don't do this, don't just, go for yourself stick to your principles stick to your message. That's what he did, and Reagan himself came up with the lines so that when the question was asked about his age, he said, "Well, I won't make my opponent's used any inexperience issue in the campaign.

BANFIELD: I love that.

LORD: And the camera caught Walter Mondale bursting into laughter, the debate was done right then and there.

BANFIELD: Yeah it was magic -- it was a magical moment, one of the best moments in debate history, yeah.

You know, to that point thought we still saw Sarah Palin being drilled blue card after blue card in preparation of her debate because there was this theory that she need more boning up on the foreign policy.

So with that in mind Mitch, you went back to the Obama days, the guy was bright, he'd been in the senate. Did you have to do a lot of debate prep with him? And you think anyone is taking that same advice to just go easy, don't study too hard just be you.

[12:35:02] MITCH STEWART, FORMER BATTLEGROUND STATES DIR. OBAMA 2012: Well, the one thing I will say Ashleigh is that Sarah Palin needed the help on the foreign policy as evident by some of the responses she had one being that she saw Russia from the front porch.

I think, you know, with the president's debate prep, he did a couple of things or the campaign did a couple of things to put him in a comfortable place.

And so we would go to a remote location, at one point, we went to Colorado, I think we went outside Las Vegas at one point. So that he really seclude himself, really focus in on the debate prep, work with his advisers, we would try to from a campaign perspective, maybe do one or two events but very, very light lifting from his perspective so that he could really focus.

And, you know, in the lead up to that, the first debate in 2012, that approach was not as successful as we hoped. But I think you did see the turn around debates two and three.

And so I suspect that on the Republican side, these candidates are going to look at what work in debate one and what did not work and apply those lessons to tomorrow night.

BANFIELD: Jeffrey do you think that Carly Fiorina right now is looking at Donald Trump's business record because she now is going to be head to head with him, there's a lot of fireworks expected that potentially could come up between the two of them. And we know already that Donald's big line is that she failed as the CEO of Hewlett-Packard.

So is she going to go after him and really dig deep on his background, because he's got some bug-a-boos there too.

LORD: Yeah, I mean I think everything is out there. So the question would be what is it that she's going to say that would be new?

He has talked about the Hewlett-Packard thing, maybe he will again. And maybe she will, maybe she'll talk about for instance the bankruptcies. He gave, you know, a very solid explanation there's a lot of people don't understand bankruptcy law, these were different companies out of 100 companies, et cetera, et cetera.

So maybe she'll go into that kind of thing. But, you know, she's got to get her own agenda across. This just can't be a Trump-prep, it's got to be debate prep, and her game. And what would she do, if she were president, not just stand there and take punches.

And for that matter, all of the other candidates have to figure that out, you know, they got to be themselves...

BANFIELD: So Mitch, you know, one of the -- when you say that they got to be themselves, last night we saw Donald Trump at the American airlines arena in Dallas with just lines and lines of people who have ethically almost astounded like they had come to see a show.

It is one thing to have a lot of people come with autographs and signs and, you know, funny little, you know, homemade posters and almost like stuffed toys. It's another thing to harness that excitement. And actually turn them into real voters because -- just because they go the show it doesn't mean they go to the poll.

And Mitch, you knew that well you guys did that almost within exact science. Explain what this guy needs to do if he wants to turn all these excited enthusiastic people into the real voters.

STEWART: And I wouldn't necessarily call just to show Ashleigh, I called a circus. And everybody loves the circus.

And so the crowds that you are seeing right now at Trump's events do provide him and his campaign an opportunity that I don't think he is taking advantage of.

And for us on the Obama campaign, we looked at every single opportunity for us to establish a relationship with a prospective voter, and that voter then can turn into the volunteer, and that volunteer can then turn into the donor.

And so we looked at his events both online and offline as opportunities to start building a relationship, and as you said, we were very exact about how we did that. Every time that we had a public even we were meticulous about getting all of the data that we could on the individuals who came so we could follow up with them.

Not only what we, so for tomorrow night, there's going to 500 people in the actual debate arena, and there's going to be millions that watch it on CNN. But from the campaign perspective, we would organize thousands of house parties across the county to watch this debate talk about the issues and then we would say "Listen, here here's a list of voters in your neighborhood you should go out and start engaging them."

And so we look for every single opportunities to start building relationships with the American public, and tomorrow that would be a great example...

BANFIELD: And do an actual ballot marking, because it is again its one thing to go to show and that's another thing to go out on Election Day.

Guys, I have to -- yeah, I have to leave it there unfortunately Jeffrey. But I do have a bunch more questions and I know I'm going to have you back, because we've got a lot more to come as we look forward to tomorrow.

Jeffrey Lord, Mitch Stewart, thank you so much.

STEWART: Thank you Ashleigh.

LORD: Thanks Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: You're welcome gentlemen. I invite you all to watch the Republican prime time debate right here on CNN starting tomorrow.

Again, 8:00 P.M. eastern time and 6:00 P.M. eastern time.

So in other news, a fraternity, a pledge dies and it's blamed on hazing. And now more than three dozen people have been implicated.

[12:39:43] We've got some disturbing details coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A grand jury has recommended charges for 37 different people, 37 people in a hazing death. It happened to a New York City college student in December of 2013.

Police say that Chun Michael Deng died as part of a fraternity ritual that went in three phases. And as each phase passed the so-called game got more severe.

Phase three was called the glass feeling that's were pledges are blindfold then they're weighted down with the pack 30 pounds of sand in it, then they try to make their way through a path while repeatedly being tackled to the ground.

And according to police that's exactly what happened to the 19-year- old Baruch college student at a house in Poconos.

They say that Deng was among five pledges who were subjected to this hazing. But that he was singled out. And that he was treated more harshly.

Not only that, it gets worse the police say it took two hours before anyone got him any medical attention.

Sara Ganim, joins me now live along with HLN Legal Analyst and Defense Attorney Joey Jackson.

So Sara, explain to me why we have 37 who are facing everything from, you know, conspiracy evidence, tampering, lying all the way up to potential murder.

Only five charged but potentially 37, explain this?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, the police are doing this in phases starting with the least serious of the charges and least serious are so pretty serious, Ashleigh, everything from hazing to lying to police, obstructing justice.

[12:45:00] When I show you some -- I'm sorry concealing evidence one of them, you know, this was so brutal. So massive that everyone who was in that house has been implicated in someway. Everything murder to involuntary manslaughter to aggravated assault.

The five who have actually been charged so far, only five, those were the lower level of the charges, concealing and destroying evidence, though, Ashleigh, they were hiding fraternity memorabilia after their fellow brother died, lying to police.

They told police that were wrestling when in fact, no, this was a hazing incident.

You know, part of why, Ashleigh, this is so brutal, so horrific is because after he went unconscious, and he fell back and hit his head they left him by a fire for about two hours, giving him chocolate and water hoping that he would wake up instead of taking him to the hospital, he clearly needed medical attention, just to run through some of his injuries, Ashleigh.

Multiple traumatic injuries according to the coroner, a significant blunt force trauma at least three clear impacts to the head, massive bruises on his back, on his thighs that the coroner even noted that his brain injury was so severe it would have taken hundreds of G- forces to cause that kind of trauma.

BANFIELD: Oh, my Lord.

I want to bring in Joey if I can. Look, in this conversation, it is early, obviously we have five people charged we have the additional 32 facing charges. But I'm looking at some of these things, conspiracy evidence, tampering, lying to investigators, hazing.

And they've also charged the national fraternity president a man named Andy Meng because the police say that he encouraged this group to actually hide all of those items that Sara was just mentioning.

Walk me through how serious the charges could be for those at the end of the chain and end up with the most serious.

And then also, what it means for this Andy Meng who is on a phone call apparently and may or may not have done this.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: It means Ashleigh, bad things really for all of them presuming there's a conviction.

Now moving forward what you have to look at is this, what they are doing is the prosecutor really wants to deter acts like this from occurring. So he is going after everyone.

Now to be clear, each and every person who's accused of a crime there has to be something established that they engaged or participated in the crime.

But to be clear let's go through the ranges, when you talk about the least serious crimes, which are hindering prosecution, lying to investigators, you're still talking about third degree conspiracy where you're agreeing to engage in the act of really a crime, you're talking about third-degree felonies in Pennsylvania which carry seven years.

So not serious, I'm not sure we can say it's not so serious, certainly they are. And then you look to the most serious charges which of course the murder charges, the involuntary manslaughter which they had planned to do in phases. Now you're talking about 20-year charges, aggravated assault when you're hitting someone causing serious injury, definitely serious 20 years.

And in terms of the fraternity president, well when you say to someone get rid of anything which would be suggestive allegedly that they were involved with the fraternity, hide everything that's hindering prosecution, concealing evidence, third-degree felony.

And so certainly it's problematic, I know they have defenses everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But at this stages in the event the prosection can go and phases and establish that each one of them are responsible for these crimes. It's very problematic.

BANFIELD: So Sarah, how -- I know spoken with the attorney for Michael Deng's family, the victim in this case, how are they doing?

GANIM: You know, clearly they're devastated in all of these cases the parents are devastated. He was an only child, you know, his mother has kept his room exactly the same way, that he always had it.

She is heart broken over this. I want to read you a very powerful statement though that I got from the family attorney earlier today he said this, he said "These individuals knew Michael was in medical emergency and needed immediate attention and chose not to give him that help. And then, when they knew tragedy was upon them, they chose not to act. At some point, after the courthouse, these individuals will find themselves in hell. That's how the family feels. What greater harm can you inflict upon a family?"

That's from the family's attorney talking about those fraternity members. And just you can in that statement just a pain that the family is feeling Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Sara Ganim and Joey Jackson, thank you for that appreciate it. Coming up next, as we wait for history to be made on CNN tomorrow, we're going to show some of the magic and tragic debate moments forever etched in political history.

[12:49:46] The highlight is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Weekend debate how much presidential debates actually affect presidential elections. But do they actually create big moments? Oh, you bet. They actually make history.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no soviet domination of Eastern Europe -- I am sorry...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight.

Mr. Trump.

(OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not going to exploit for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine, senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The third agency of government I would do away with education, the commerce and let's see, I can't -- the third one, I can't, I'm sorry. Oops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is what our next question is about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, democratic candidates, as president, what will you do to ensure that my son will live a full and happy life?

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not like what your philosophy and what your position on issues. But can you get things done? And I believe I can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who am I? Why am I here?

[12:55:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Clinton tried to spend $1 million on the Woodstock concert museum. Now, my friends, I wasn't there. I was tied up at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is true now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick, I'll tell you, what, 10,000 bucks, $10,000 bet? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are asking me if -- I am paying for this microphone, Mr. Speaker.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think I'm that bad.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are likable enough, Hillary, you know that.

CLINTON: Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I just wish they had that sound track, that dum, dum, dum, dum going behind the actual debate so that we could watch these highlights live.

The Republican debate in case you didn't know it already airs tomorrow tonight on CNN round one for the candidates begins at a 6:00 P.M. eastern. And then the prime time debate with all of the faces that takes place at 8:00 P.M. eastern time right here on CNN. Do not miss it. I'm looking forward to the Carly Fiorina versus Donald Trump part.

Thanks for watching everybody. My colleague Wolf who knows this thing or two about the debates, he's out live at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley California.

And he starts right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:00:02] TRUMP: So the debate. I hear they're all going after me.

My whole life is preparation for a debate, I'll be attacked, I guess I'm going into a lion's den.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll campaign hard. If someone comes at me, bam, I'll come back at him.