Return to Transcripts main page

AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Donald Trump on Top in New Poll; Interview with Trump Campaign Manager Corey; County Clerk Kim Davis Returns to Work; Poll Show More Details on Which Voters Want Which Candidates; Republicans Prep for Wednesday Night CNN Debate. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 14, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm John Berman. It's 11:00 in the east, 8:00 a.m. in Simi Valley, California. I'm joining you live from the majestic Ronald Reagan Presidential Library where, just two days from now, we'll see round two, the Republican presidential debate right here on CNN. 11 candidates face off on the main stage.

And a new poll this morning shows Donald Trump the one to beat. Trump has put even more distance between himself and the rest of the pack, with Ben Carson second. No one even close. Big separation. What happened to Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul? The stakes so high for them. What about Carly Fiorina, she's a new addition to the big debate, but while she has gained publicity, she's not really picked up support, according to the new polls. Will Donald Trump insult her to her face? And what about that face that Trump commented on so recently? Carly Fiorina, a super PAC behind her, now striking back. More on all of that coming up.

First, let's talk poll position. The latest ABC News/"Washington Post" poll, Donald Trump way out front.

Athena Jones joins us.

You called this the S.E. Hinton campaign. It's all about the outsiders.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, John. That was one of my favorite books growing up. That has been the theme of this election season so far, the strength of these outsider candidates. And this new poll from ABC, we can put this up on the screen, includes new, interesting numbers on that. Shows the preference for an anti- establishment candidate among Republicans and Democrats, you can see there that among Republicans, 60 percent prefer an outsider candidate. That's a big difference from the Democrats. And it helps explain why Donald Trump and Ben Carson, the top two folks now in the polls, are doing so well.

BERMAN: If you add up their support, it's over 50 percent. So, over 50 percent of Republican primary voters say they want the outsider. Whether it be C. Thomas Howell or Ralph Maccio (ph) --

(LAUGHTER)

-- or Donald Trump. The Reagan Presidential Library, setting for the second debate right here on CNN. This is a different feel from the first debate. The first debate was in Cleveland, where they played basketball, where Lebron James plays basketball. On Wednesday night, they'll number a smaller venue, 500 seats, with Air Force One. Ronald Reagan's Air Force One behind them.

JONES: That's right. I got a chance to go inside the venue yesterday. It's a very intimate setting. CNN not a stage next to Ronald Reagan's Air Force One. Giant plane will be behind the candidates. There is a stage set up, like you said, about 400 to 500 folks in the audience. That audience is made up of people invited by the library. People invited by the Republican National Committee. And a few of them invited by the campaign themselves. It's going to be much more intimate than a stadium setting. In that last debate you could hear the crowd really respond to what some candidates said, roars of laughter and applause. You're not going to have that same energy from a much smaller crowd. Of course, the candidates are going to be just a few feet away from the audience, so that could really affect how they come across. How they attack each other.

BERMAN: May not feel like a gladiator battle, more like a chess match. Those can be extremely intense.

Athena Jones, great to have you here with us.

JONES: Thanks.

BERMAN: Want to talk about the big debate, just two days away right now, with Donald Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, joining me from New York.

Donald Trump out in front in the latest poll, way out front in some cases. I want to know, how is the candidate preparing? Is he getting ready for this debate any differently than he did for the first debate?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, thanks for having me on. I do want to say, you know, Mr. Trump will be prepared for the debate in California. As you know, we're going to Dallas tonight, where he's going to be hosting a large rally at the American airlines center. We expect capacity crowd there. And the real thing is his message is resonating with the American public. The polling indicates that. I think you'll see Donald Trump come prepared to discuss the issues thaw guys want to talk about and the American people want to hear about on Wednesday night in California.

BERMAN: So, one of the things Donald Trump has been discussing, or one of the things he discussed at least once with "Rolling Stone" was Carly Fiorina's face. I know you don't need me to but let me tell you exactly what he told "Rolling Stone," "Look at that face, would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?" Well, now a super PAC backing Carly Fiorina has sort of capitalized on that statement and put out a new campaign video. I want you to watch this for just a few seconds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER CEO, HEWLETT- PACKARD: We are not a special interest group. We are the majority of the nation.

(CHEERING)

[11:05:00] FIORINA: This is the face of the 61-year-old woman. I am proud of every year and every wrinkle.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "I'm proud of every wrinkle." If you watch more of that video, it shows different faces of different women, saying, look at this face, this is my face. A lot of references about faces. Your reaction?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, look, here's the problem. You've got a super PAC, which is a bunch of anonymous donors giving money to someone and then they go out and can make any claims they want to. They're perfectly able to do that. These are the issues. These candidates are all beholden to these super PACs. Jeb Bush has raised hundreds of millions. This is everything that's wrong with the American political system right now, is these candidates go out --

BERMAN: It's wrong?

LEWANDOWSKI: -- they raise money, go out and raise money for super PACs and then say, we don't have anything to do with these super PACs so they can say whatever they want.

BERMAN: It's wrong for a group to say, hey, we're women, look at our faces, we support Carly Fiorina?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, it's not the message. It's not the message I'm talking about. It's the fact these super PACs are out there, they have huge amounts of money being funneled into them so they can attack candidates or give any message they want. The difference with Mr. Trump is we don't have super PACs, we're not beholden to special interests. All the other candidates want to go out and raise this money and then they're beholden to these donors if and when they're to be elected.

BERMAN: They're beholden to those donors. Campaign finance is a separate issue, but so is commenting about a woman's face. If you have this group, and you have all these women in this video talking about how they feel very comfortable with their faces, Carly Fiorina talking about how she earned her wrinkles, don't they have the right to defend her if your boss is going to attack her and her face? LEWANDOWSKI: Super PACs have the right to do that. The Supreme Court

ruled on it. They're welcome to do that. You have to remember what a super PAC is, a bunch of wealthy donors who want to send a message traditionally other campaigns don't do. This is the problem with the dark money that's involved in politics right now. We know Jeb Bush has $100 million sitting in a super PAC. I'm sure the vast majority of that is going to come after Mr. Trump because Jeb Bush is now 8 percent in the polls or less in the last poll. This is what the American people don't want anymore, they don't want these super PACs.

BERMAN: Let me ask you about, if Donald Trump becomes the nominee, they will not vote for him in the general election. Donald Trump was pressured to sign this pledge that no matter what happens in the Republican primary, he will support the Republican nominee. He will not run as a third-party candidate. Do you think now that every candidate needs to stand up and say that if Trump is the nominee, they will support him? And if they're not willing to say that, will he back out of the pledge and say, you know what, I might run as a third- party candidate?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, it's my understanding that both of those individuals either signed that same exact pledge or said they would sign that same exact pledge. This is the problem with politicians. They're all talk, no action. They'll say something and then they'll change their mind. Nothing gets done with these people. So, look, the bottom line is, they're so upset that Mr. Trump is so clearly the front-runner in this race that they're trying to do anything to gain attention for themselves. And it's clearly not working. They continue to go down in the polls. Mr. Trump continues to go up in the polls. So, if they don't want to keep their word, they don't to want hold to their word, that's on them, not on us.

BERMAN: Do you think it invalidates the whole idea of this pledge, that the Republican Party has made you sign, though?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look. I think these people put their name on a piece of paper saying they're going to do something and this is what politicians do. They do something when they think it's expedient for them to do that and then they change their mind two weeks later. If they put their name on a piece of paper and pledge to support the nominee, if it's not going to be them, they should do that. Clearly they know that's not going to be them because they're not going to be the nominee.

BERMAN: Corey, one of the things Donald Trump likes to say on the stump is Latino voters love him, Hispanics love him. He points to a poll in Nevada doing OK among Hispanic voters. A new poll out from Maris and Telemundo shows he's not doing so well. 70 percent of people in the new poll among Latinos have a very or somewhat negative view of Donald Trump. 70 percent. That's a lot, Corey.

: Look, we can look at all the polls we want to. Every poll out in the last eight weeks has shown Donald Trump as a clear front-runner in this race. We've seen Mr. Trump now beat Hillary Clinton head to head. There's no question about that in the last poll, CNN's own poll shows Mr. Trump is a clear front-runner. We shows he does exceptionally well with African-American. 25 percent of those polled of African-Americans say they're supporting Trump. 22 percent of the Asian population is supporting Trump. His message resonates because it's time to make America great again.

[11:10:05] BERMAN: Corey, besides Donald Trump, who do you have your eye on in this debate? Who does Donald Trump have his eye on? Who is he most worried about?

LEWANDOWSKI: Obviously, you have a number of candidates on the stage who have held electrified office and been involved with national foreign policy and national foreign defense spending issues. We'll let those candidates decide how they're going to prepare for their own debate. We only worry about the campaign we're involved with, which is the Trump campaign.

BERMAN: Corey Lewandowski, great to have you with us AT THIS HOUR. Please come back. Good luck heading into Wednesday night. I should say, you have a big rally tonight in Dallas as well.

Thanks, Corey.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

BERMAN: Be sure to tune in Wednesday night for the Republican debate right here at CNN. The main event with the top 11 candidates begins at 8:00. Before that, 6:00 p.m., four other candidates all have so much to prove, that begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern.

Ahead, you just saw Carly Fiorina, the super PAC behind her, putting out a new video, perhaps showing how they will deal with Donald Trump. But how about the other candidates? Will they go after Donald Trump in this debate? We will discuss.

Plus, the clerk in Kentucky against gay marriage, she's back at work right now. Moments ago, a same-sex couple tried to get a marriage license. See what happened inside that office. And how will this issue play in the Republican debate at the Reagan Presidential Library, where I am right now? Our coverage continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:00] BERMAN: Breaking news out of Kentucky. A same-sex couple out of Kentucky, Shannon and Carmen Wampler-Collins, just received a marriage license from the clerk's office, the office of Kim Davis, the clerk who spent days in jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. This came -- this issuing of the marriage license, came after an emotional Kim Davis said she would not personally authorize licenses that go against her belief but she said her deputies would be allowed to grant those licenses as long as they did not have her name or title on them. Davis fought back tears as she stated that position. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DAVIS, COUNTY CLERK, ROWAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY: I don't want to have this conflict. I don't want to be in the spotlight. And I certainly don't want to be a whipping post. I am no hero. I'm just a person that's been transformed by the grace of God and who wants to work, be with my family. I just want to serve my neighbors quietly without violating my conscience. So, this morning, I'm going to fashion a remedy that reconciles my conscience with Judge Benning's orders. Effective immediately, and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: But the fact of the matter is, as a few minutes ago, marriage licenses are being issued from that office.

Want to bring in CNN's Martin Savidge in Morehead, Kentucky. Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University. Both men with me right now.

Martin, beginning with you, the news, that office, marriage licenses are being granted even with Kim Davis back at work.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In fact, Kim Davis was not present inside the room when Shannon and Carmen Wampler-Collins went in to request their marriage license. She was actually behind closed doors, but the media was there and watched every step of the way. It's quite clear the deputy clerk in this particular case went forward with processing of that document. So it would seem, according to the judge's orders, things are going as he wanted. That is, licenses are being granted to same-sex couples even though you heard in that statement the defiance in Kim Davis as she returned to work.

I had a chance to talk to the couple just before they went in. Here's how they were feeling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I feel it's really unfortunate that she has taken things to this extreme. You know, I appreciate she has her beliefs and that she's making a stand, but to stand in the way of the people she serves, exercising their rights, is just wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Shannon and Carmen have been together over 20 years. They have two teenagers and they live in Lexington, but they're from this area. They clearly wanted to make a statement that, now it's legal, they can get a marriage license. They came to challenge and they have won. They have walked out with that marriage license.

There is more still to come. Of course, there is the wedding that has to be officiated. The document is signed there. And then it's brought back and it's recorded here. In at least two of those steps, usually, Kim Davis is involved. So far she is not. She has stayed out of the process. The state says it's still valid -- John?

BERMAN: Jonathan Turley, let me bring you in here. What legal issues then remain? Is this a done deal as long as the

courts are concerned? As long as that office is issuing licenses, nothing else matters?

JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: It may be a done deal. The reason I qualify that is that this state has a law different from most. It does, in fact, require, for a valid marriage license, to have the signature, the authorization of the clerk. Many states don't have that. And, indeed, Mrs. Davis has maintained these licenses are invalid without her signature. The question then is how that issue would ever go before a court.

They obviously will take this to someone who will officiate the wedding. And that person very likely supports same-sex marriage and is likely to accept that license. But it is possible to see a challenge, including by someone like Davis or others who ask for a thing called a declaratory judgment, to go to a court and say, we want to you declare these licenses are not in conformity with Kentucky law.

The second issue is whether the Kentucky legislature will get involved. They're not in session now. But there's two questions there. Whether they want to support Davis or whether they want to fashion some accommodation for clerks so they don't have to put their name on licenses.

[11:20:00] BERMAN: It sounds like they will take the second option when they get back in session. So the legal issues really are what happens during this interim, this period before they come back, what will a judge rule? Jonathan, can a county clerk be compelled -- in this period, can a

court say, you have to sign these documents? It is your job to sign them, not just to get in the way of it?

TURLEY: I think the judge could have ordered that. And I'm a little surprised that he didn't. I think some judges would have. This is a judge, Judge Bunning, who was desperately trying -- and this is to his credit -- trying to sort of thread this needle. We all understand that Mrs. Davis has deep-seeded religious beliefs, as many Americans do, and he was trying as best he could to reach a resolution. I'm not too sure this will be a resolution.

The other issue, by the way, when you talk about accommodation, the Kentucky legislature, if it says that clerks must be accommodated in declining to participate in certain types of activities, certain types of approvals, they will have to do that for all religions, so this could become a fairly big-ticket item if you're going to allow an accommodation for any religious beliefs for any ministerial function.

BERMAN: Even while same-sex couples emerging from the Rowan County clerk's office with marriage licenses, this issue far from settled.

Martin Savidge, Jonathan Turley, thank you for being with us.

TURLEY: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: The Republican candidates, right now they're prepping for the CNN debate right here at the Reagan Library Wednesday night. What are their biggest goals? What are the biggest risks for the main candidates? We will discuss.

Plus, boom or bust? Rick Perry, he's out. Find out who the next candidate to drop out might be, the one who may have everything riding on this debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:29] BERMAN: Look at that. The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, so peaceful, yet there will be fireworks here just two days from now. I'm John Berman, live at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. We're counting down to the Republican presidential debate, just two days away. You'll hear it all right here on CNN.

A brand new poll shows Donald Trump and Ben Carson have separated themselves from the rest of the pack as we head into round two, the second debate. The poll also goes into greater detail about what voters think about the candidates and issues, and which voters think about what candidates and the issues.

I want to talk more about this with senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein; and CNN political commentator, Ana Navarro. Ana is also a supporter of Jeb Bush and a friend of Marco Rubio.

Ron Brownstein, they call you the dean of demographic analyst. You dig into these numbers. When it comes for support for Donald Trump, this guy is a billionaire. The guy has a lot of money. Yet, it's not the money'd folks who love Donald Trump.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. No, that's right. Thank you for that, John. His constituency is very striking. He's competitive with upscale Republicans and white-collar Republicans but dominant with blue-collar Republicans. In this poll today he's 43 percent of Republicans without a college degree. A Quinnipiac national poll the other day came out with exactly that 2 to 1 ratio. The CNN poll was a little less, lopsided, but the same divide.

You see Trump is building a kind of blue collar populist argument, talking about hedge fund managers not paying enough taxes, skepticism about international trade, and above all, deep, deep criticism of immigration and the advocacy of positions on immigration that really no mainstream Republican leader has taken, if you take them all in totality. But yet, which find substantial support among that blue- collar Republican base.

BERMAN: Ana, you know, Donald Trump is crushing everyone else among the regular guys. A billionaire. How is he out-regular-guying everyone else in the field right now?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Honestly, I have to say, the man defies gravity and defies logic. Anything else that would sink anybody else does not sink him. It's hard to explain it. I think somehow despite him being the elite, despite him having played the game, despite him having given money all over the place in politics, gained the system had when it comes to corporate bankruptcies, despite all of that, people see him as one of them. I remember a focus group that was done about the vote, about Donald Trump, where you saw blue- collar people saying, he's one of us. Somehow they identify with his message, if not with his lifestyle.

BERMAN: I didn't call it a skill. He has a skill as a communicator where he connects with people.

So, Ron --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Hang on one second, Ron. While there is the support there from different groups, there's a lot that people don't like about Donald Trump also. In fact, as you look at these numbers, an astounding amount they don't like about him.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I think that's right. First of all, the point I make about his blue-collar support is he is articulating an agenda that makes sense for those voters. He defends entitlements and criticizes low tax rates for, you know, wall street, which are views that I think actually resonate with the changing Republican base in a way most candidates don't in the party haven't reflected.

When you look at this broader question, and you look at this ABC/"Washington Post" poll, it is kind of a wake-up call. When you get outside the bubble of the Republican primary electorate, there are deep doubts about Donald Trump, and even within the primary electorate. Support for his immigration policy, down around under 40 percent. Does he have the temperament and the kind of personality to serve effectively as president? I think that's the most important one. You're looking at only about a third of registered voters overall.

And I think more importantly, only about half of Republicans saying, yes. As we've talked about before, John, I think that is an area that the other candidates, if they are going to kind of slow down this train, are going to have to exploit, even only about half of Republicans, even though while they think he's qualified, question whether he has the temperament and the personality to serve effectively as president. I think you have to heighten those doubts starting with this debate.

[11:30:00] BERMAN: Ana, with so many negatives, you would think these other candidates would be able to capitalize on that, yet every time they try and all the candidates who try, they seem to melt away.