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Interview with Donald Trump; Trump Pulls Away From Field In New CNN Poll; Trump: Iran Is Now Taking Over Iraq And The Oil. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired September 10, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Donald Trump is on the phone. Mr. Trump, can you hear us?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): I can. Hi, Chris.

CUOMO: Good. Good to have you. A lot to get through this morning. There's a new CNN/ORC poll. You are aware of it, other than the you're surprised that you don't have more than 32 percent of the vote. How do you explain these numbers? What do they mean to you?

TRUMP: Well, I think they mean that people are tired of politicians that make deals like the deal we just made with Iran, which is one of the worst negotiated transactions I've ever seen in my life. And I'm not just talking about deals between countries. I'm talking about any kind of a contract.

It's one of the worst deals I've ever seen. It's the most one-sided, lopsided disgrace and how it goes through is unbelievable and we should not give them money. There are ways that we can get out of giving them money.

I heard some legal maneuvers that they should play because to give them $150 billion and they go around saying that Israel won't be here in 25 years, and we're not going to deal with the United States after this great deal that we just made to sign, that we won't have anything to do with the United States.

By the way, the people that were negotiating that deal with those other countries, they are going to benefit. You look at what they are doing, they are over in Iran right now splitting up all the money and taking a lot of that money out that we're giving.

So I think people are tired of that. They are tired of Sergeant Bergdahl. Where we get Bergdahl, a traitor, and they get five killers that they have wanted for ten years. They are tired of trade deals with China and with Japan. They are tired. They know that -- That won't happen with me and it's not going to happen with me. I'll turn the tables completely.

CUOMO: That winds up being the test. Are you right that people are tired? Obviously every poll you're in proves that. Not to say that you are a protest candidate, because in our recent poll, CNN poll, says why they vote for you? Seventy one percent say they like your positions on issues, not because they just don't like everyone else. So you are right about what people say they want within the GOP and independent votes, as proved out in the most recent CNN poll.

Now the next level of analysis is, can you deliver on what you say? Because what you say sounds good. The Iran deal is the worst deal of all time. A growing number of people who are studying the deal don't agree with you.

The global community doesn't agree with you. Iran doesn't agree with you. They didn't want to give up their plutonium abilities and their time lines. They didn't want to have to reduce their stores the way they did, but they had to give up things to get what they wanted.

Colin Powell, a man who I would think you respect, says we have to do the Iran deal, there's no better alternative. They were on a super highway to getting a weapon.

Sounds good to say the deal sucks. Sounds good to say you'll do better because you do deals, but can you deliver on that when, as you just said, the ayatollah says he's not talking to you anymore?

TRUMP: OK, well, let me just tell you that in terms of the deal itself, just look at aspects of the deal, 24-day inspection period. Ridiculous. And by the way --

CUOMO: But you have none now.

TRUMP: -- before you get to the 24 days, Chris --

CUOMO: But you have none now.

TRUMP: Chris, let me finish talking.

CUOMO: Please, go ahead.

TRUMP: You just went - I mean, what are you making, a statement or asking me a question?

CUOMO: No, no, but I'm giving context to the situation.

TRUMP: But you have a 24-day period and before you get to the 24 days, the clock doesn't start ticking for a long time. It's a whole process. So number one in terms of inspections. Number two, they do their own inspections in certain very important cases. So they are going to self-inspect. Anybody that trusts Iran to self-inspect is not such a smart person.

You look at the prisoners, why didn't we get our prisoners back a little thing very important just the psychology of it. They kept four prisoners. Why wouldn't we get them back? You look at all of the different elements of this deal.

Why are we giving them $150 billion? Then take a look at the fact they are fighting us in Yemen, right? They are fighting us all over the place and terrorizing everybody. They are going in and taking over Iraq. I hope you know that.

I told you that was going to happen in 2003 when you were actually on another network doing very well. But I said that that was going to happen in 2003.

I said the worst thing you can do is go and attack Iraq because you're going to destabilize the Middle East. Because you have these two powerful gods that were almost the same, well, we destroyed one of the gods (ph).

Well guess what? Iran and ISIS are getting the oil and Iran is taking over Iraq. As you're sitting there right now, they are meeting. And with all the money we've spent and the lives -- $2 trillion, thousands of lives, thousands of lives, and all the wounded warriors, who I love, all over the place, Iran is now taking over Iraq.

And the oil, by the way, Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. They are taking over Iraq and taking over the oil. And what do we get out of it? You know who one of the biggest beneficiaries of Iraqi oil is? China.

China is getting the oil. And you know who the biggest beneficiary -- if you look at Afghanistan, which is very rich in minerals, China. We are on one side of a mountain fighting in Afghanistan. China has got excavators on the other side of the mountain. They're taking out all of the middle --

CUOMO: Well, but Mr. Trump, you make a very interesting point there --

TRUMP: -- they don't do anything. So --

CUOMO: You look at China --

TRUMP: That's why when people ask about, gee, I wonder -- Trump's poll numbers are skyrocketing, that's why. That's not going to happen if I'm running things, Chris. It won't happen and you know what?

CUOMO: But the question is well why -- why won't it happen?

TRUMP: The world will like us better.

[07:35:01] CUOMO: China stays China. Russia stays Russia. India says India. They all want to do business with Iran. They were not in favor of more sanctions. The same with many of your European partners --

TRUMP: That's called leadership.

CUOMO: But what does that mean, leadership? If they say we're not going to do it --

TRUMP: If you would have gotten them to stay longer and were not (INAUDIBLE) the sanctions -

CUOMO: What do you say? TRUMP: -- you would have been able to make a real deal. I'm all for a deal, just so you understand because I understand the power of nuclear. I had an uncle who was a professor at MIT, he fully understood.

He used to tell me things that are incredible, and that was a long time ago. I'm all for a deal. But you got to make a good deal. You can't make a bad deal and we were begging for this deal. We look like a bunch of beggars. We were begging for this deal.

CUOMO: You also say in an op-ed that many are celebrating as being well-reasoned about the Iran deal and there are some thoughtful items in that. People should read it. But you push very hard on the fact that I get those four people -- as soon as I'm president, I'm getting back those four hostages. You must know that they are and were trying very hard to get the hostages back.

TRUMP: I don't believe they were trying very hard. I don't think it was.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: We don't have any proof to the contrary.

TRUMP: Chris, when they asked Kerry about the hostages, he said we didn't want to discuss the hostages because we didn't want to complicate the negotiation. How ridiculous is that? But he made that statement. And Obama, your friend over at CBS, made the same statement.

He said we didn't want the complicate the negotiations. Now, what is the big deal? First of all, the first day, the first hour, the first minute, the first question should have been hostages. We want our hostages back.

CUOMO: But would you have scrapped the whole deal over that?

TRUMP: They don't help you. They do help us.

CUOMO: Would you have scrapped the whole deal? Would you have left the table?

TRUMP: Initially, absolutely because that would have shown what happened. When you didn't get the hostages back, that set a bad table. You call the deal like setting a table. That set the table incorrectly. What you do is you go and - and you can convince him.

By the way, the right message would have said, you don't need them, you don't want them, nobody cares about them over in Iran. Over here it would send a great signal. If we got our hostages back I think you could probably end up making a -

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I'm just saying we have every reason to believe from the people who are at the table that they said that. TRUMP: Chris, you would have gotten the hostages back --

CUOMO: I'm saying --

TRUMP: Kerry said he didn't want to even talk about the hostages --

CUOMO: No. We know --

TRUMP: -- because he didn't want to complicate the negotiations, Chris.

CUOMO: I think -- I understand what you're saying. But I think it's a little different than that. I think that it was a topic of conversation. They didn't want to balance the entire deal on the hostages.

TRUMP: They don't know anything about negotiations. They didn't read "The Art of the Deal," they never will. The Iranians are great negotiators. The Persians have always been great negotiators. They are laughing in Iran right now at how stupid we are.

CUOMO: Let's move on to a different topic. Ben Carson, he's also making a lot of traction. He's feeling good about himself, enough that he's coming at you. He is a man of faith. Everybody knows that, it's a cornerstone of his existence and certainly his motivation to run.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know that. I mean, I had not heard that. I have known Ben Carson, of him, for a long time. I never heard faith was a big thing until just recently when he started running.

CUOMO: He's a Seventh Day Adventist. I mean, it's -- something he talks about a lot.

TRUMP: So I don't know about Ben Carson's faith and all of a sudden he becomes this great religious figure. I don't think he's a great religious figure. I saw him yesterday quoting something and he was quoting on humility and it looked like he had just memorized it about two minutes before he made the quote. So, you know, don't tell me about Ben Carson. Now --

CUOMO: Well, Ben Carson is coming at you, too. He says --

TRUMP: He's starting to hit me so I hit back. I only hit back when I get hit. I'm a great counter-puncher.

CUOMO: I know -- let me ask you --

TRUMP: But Ben Carson, you're talking about his faith -- excuse me, Chris -- go back and look at his past. Go back and look at his views on abortion and see where he stands. You talk about abortion. I mean, go back and look at his views on abortion. Now all of a sudden he gets on very low key, I mean, frankly he looks like -- he makes Bush look like the Energizer Bunny. He's very low key. He's got --

CUOMO: Strong words. TRUMP: -- a lot of people pushing him. But Ben Carson, you look at his faith and I think you're not going to find so much. And you look at his views on abortion, which were horrendous. And that's, I think, why I'm leading with all of the evangelicals.

I'm, as you know in your poll, number one, I'm leading Ben Carson by a lot. You know, you said, Ben Carson is surging. Well, I'm almost double his numbers. So you know --

CUOMO: Absolutely. But I'm saying he came out of nowhere is all I'm saying. He's not a big celebrity. You know, people didn't know about him. He doesn't get anywhere near the attention that you get.

TRUMP: Well, I only bring this up, Chris - Hey, Chris - I only bring it up because I saw him hitting me yesterday. He's questioning my faith. I happen to be a great believer in God, a great believer in the Bible.

CUOMO: He is definitely questioning your faith.

TRUMP: Hey, Chris, who is he to question my faith when I am -- he doesn't even know me. I've met him a few times. But I don't know Ben Carson. He was a doctor, perhaps an OK doctor. By the way, you can check that out, too. They're not talking about a -- he was an OK doctor.

CUOMO: I don't know about OK doctor. You know, he was the first man to separate conjoined twins.

TRUMP: And now because he's a doctor and he hired one nurse, he's going to end up being the President of the United States?

[07:40:05] But for him to criticize me on my faith is absolutely -- for him to read from the Bible in his memory, it looked like he memorized it about 2 minutes before he went on stage.

CUOMO: Do you think you're more a man of faith than he is?

TRUMP: Ben Carson is not going to be your next president that I can tell you.

CUOMO: Do you think you're more a man of faith than Ben Carson is?

TRUMP: I would say -- I can't quote him. I can only say I am a man of faith. I can't -- I don't know enough about Ben Carson. But if you look at his past, which I've done, he wasn't a big man of faith. All of a sudden he's become this man of faith.

And he was heavy into the world of abortion and he was a doctor. And take a look at the hospitals where he worked. He was a doctor, check out the past, and see. All of a sudden he's -- he's totally anti- abortion. Well, if you look back, you will find he's a very much different Ben Carson.

Now, one other thing, he shouldn't be questioning my faith because No. 1, I'm leading with the evangelicals. I'm Protestant, I'm Presbyterian. I have great relationships with the people of Iowa, with New Hampshire, with South Carolina, and he shouldn't be questioning my faith. You know why, because he knows nothing about me. I've met him a couple times.

CUOMO: All right, so maybe you guys should get together.

Let's move on to another topic. You had another a very (goes) again moment? First it was Rosie and Megyn, now you've got Carly Fiorina. They've got you in "Rolling Stone" magazine making fun of the way she looks. Why do you talk about how women look so much? You know it's not presidential. It's probably not even --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I'm not talking -- look, I'm talking about persona. Look, here's another one.

CUOMO: You said look at that face. You said look at that face.

TRUMP: I mean, between Carson and Carly --

CUOMO: You said look at that face!

TRUMP: I'll say some nice things about you at least so that they'll say at least he says nice things about some people.

CUOMO: I'll take it.

TRUMP: The fact is that Carly Fiorina has had a terrible past. She was fired viciously from Hewlett-Packard. The dean of the Yale Business School --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But then you should say that.

TRUMP: -- who's a highly-respected man, Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, wrote a paper that was one of the worst papers on CEOs. She goes down as one of the worst ever. The company practically created --

CUOMO: But then say that.

TRUMP: Wait, excuse me, Chris, wait. Thousands of jobs gone, stock prices gone, still haven't recovered. It's a total disaster but still hasn't recovered. They're trying hard, but she was a disastrous CEO. She had a company before that called Lucent, which in my opinion and in my memory, was even a worse catastrophe than Hewlett-Packard.

She then gets fired from Hewlett-Packard. She runs for the Senate against somebody that could have been beaten easily, she loses in a landslide, and now she's running for president.

Now, when I said that and the "Rolling Stone" article has moments of beauty and great moments, and I did like the pictures, actually, one of the few magazines where I actually like the pictures. So the photographer was good. The writer actually called me and said, "I'm so upset." I wrote this great story and Jan Winters (ph) screwed it up. He told me because they added a lot of stuff, a lot of garish stuff that I think is disgusting. But they added that.

CUOMO: What I'm saying is that --

TRUMP: Excuse me, wait. So -- but Carly, the statement on Carly, I'm talking about her persona. Her persona is not going to be -- she's not going to be president. She's had a terrible, terrible failed time --

CUOMO: I don't know about that. I'll tell you why. I hear everything you're saying about the record. They are all legitimate bases for criticism that you can level against one of your opponents, but I'm just reading the quote for what it is, "Look at that face."

Why would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that's the face of our next president? I mean, she's a woman. I'm not supposed say bad things. But really, folks, come on. Are we serious? That's not about her persona?

TRUMP: I'm talking persona.

CUOMO: How? Where's the persona in that?

TRUMP: And what she's saying about my hair, I know that's OK and you won't defend me.

CUOMO: That's tit for tat. That's --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Because my hair, by the way, I think you know me well enough, it is my hair. But when she --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Somebody comes on my air and makes fun of your hair, I'm going to them to shut up and move on to something else. If somebody does that to you on my air, and they say he shouldn't be president because of his hair, look at his hair, I'll say, shut up. Let's talk about something else because it's unkind and it's unpresidential.

TRUMP: Well, you don't have to defend me. I'm not looking for anyone to defend me. I'm just saying, when she and other people hit me on things, nobody ever comes to my defense. So I'm just saying this --

CUOMO: You come to your defense.

TRUMP: Carly had a terrible time in business. She destroyed a company. You have to get the report from Jeffrey Sonnenfeld of Yale. He's the expert on Carly. It's a disaster, and check out Lucent beforehand. So you have Ben saying what he said, you have Carly saying -- these are two people that will not be president. CUOMO: All I'm saying is that you are the frontrunner. You say that you're going to be President of the United States. There is a manner of behavior that goes with that. I'm not saying be Mr. P.C., I'm not saying be Captain Gentility and let everybody beat you up, but the idea of returning a blow every time you receive one, you know that doesn't work in any high level situation.

TRUMP: Well I'm a believer perhaps you're not. Maybe that's why your show isn't doing as well as it should be because you really have a better show than them.

CUOMO: See, that's not nice. That's not nice.

TRUMP: Let me just tell you --

CUOMO: That's not nice. You're attacking me for asking you a question. See, that's my point. That's not what the president does.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Let me just tell you, Chris, when Ben Carson criticizes or questions -- he doesn't even know me. You know where I met him? He comes to my club in Palm Beach. I have a great club, Mar-A-Lago in Palm Beach, he comes to my club.

[07:45:06] I hardly know Ben Carson. When he questions my faith, and I'm a believer, big league, in God, in the Bible, and he questions my faith and he doesn't know me? That's -- and you say I'm not supposed to hit back. I will hit back on that.

CUOMO: No, I don't say you're not supposed to hit back. I'm saying --

TRUMP: And I think that the Evangelicals understand me. First of all, they know I'm going to run the country properly and I'm not going to let everybody rip us off and take our jobs and take our money. And that's very important to the Evangelicals. They are very smart people. And they also know I'm a man of faith. I don't want Ben Carson criticizing my faith. Certainly when he doesn't know me, he can't do that.

CUOMO: I understand that and that's a legitimate position for you to have. I think the Carly Fiorina situation is something for you to consider different way because it seems to keep happening and I don't get the persona reference. I think it's more about her face and that's something for you to figure out how you want to put yourself out to the voters.

Let me ask you about a couple more items though that we have for you, issues that will be very relevant to you if you're President of the United States.

The Kentucky clerk situation, there is a culture war going on in this country. You've had the Supreme Court give the ruling that same sex marriage is the law of the land. You of course know that. She says, I'm not going to do it because it's against my faith. She's a public servant. She was elected to do the job of giving out licenses, not to decide who gets them on that basis. What do you think of her?

TRUMP: Well, I think I'd like to see her maybe go -- I hated that she went to jail, first of all. I thought that was very --

CUOMO: She chose to go, as you know.

TRUMP: I hated that. But -- and now she's out. But I must tell you that we are a land of laws. I would like to see her get a different job or at least let the clerks do that particular work. We are in a position that's been a terrible situation that has taken place out there. And I understand both sides of the argument. And I embrace both sides of the argument.

You know, you can embrace both sides of an argument. But it would be really good if she could either stay and let the clerks do that work that she can't do, or in the alternative, get herself something else, where she doesn't come into conflict.

But that's the way of handling it. It's something that is going to work its way out but it is a messy situation. No question about it.

CUOMO: The tone that you've put into the campaign is starting to move through into different candidates. You go after Jeb Bush. You got this commercial where it's like a Somanix (ph) commercial, you got him falling asleep. Now he's trying to up his game, it seems, and come at you a little bit. I don't know if you saw what he did on Colbert, but we have a clip. I want your take on it.

You don't have it. Well, anyway, he's making fun of your hair basically is what he's doing, which is exactly what you were pointing to earlier on. Did you see it? Did you hear about it? Did you think it was effective? Did you think it was funny?

TRUMP: I thought it was OK. I mean, he was put in a very bad position because he was given these cue cards to read that he didn't know anything about. I actually think he's a nice person, but he's not a natural entertainer.

And he was put into a position that was very uncomfortable for him. I mean, it was something he didn't want to be doing. And, you know, so it was fun, it was fine. And he did fine. But he was put into a position that he really didn't want to be in.

And he could have said I'd rather not do that, I guess would have been better. He's probably saying this stuff will haunt me for the rest of my life. But it's one of those things. I mean, it's fine.

CUOMO: Do you think, as you continue to stay at the top of the polls, if it stays that way, and you wind up getting into a general against somebody else, do you think you will campaign and deal with opponents the same way? Where every time they say something about you, you go back at them? At some point do you think you have to shift tone to what is seen as being more presidential? TRUMP: No, I have to win. I have to win. I have to put this country back. This country is in such trouble. We are $19 trillion. We are getting ripped off by China, Japan, Mexico, everybody, Mexico both in trade and at the border. I have to do what I have to do to win.

When a Ben Carson makes a phony statement like he made, I'm going to attack him. And if Hillary says something incorrect, look, Hillary was the worst Secretary of State in the history of the United States.

I think she will be superseded by John Kerry because this deal that he's making with Iran will take him over the top. I think he's actually going to go down as worse than her.

But Hillary was truly -- did a terrible job. The world blew up around her, OK? It blew up. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. Now, it's sort of interesting because in the polls, and you see, I'm leading with African-Americans.

I've got the highest poll number in the history of the Republican Party primary things, I've got 25 percent. And I'm also -- I think you saw, leading with Hispanics. And everybody fell off the chair when they heard that. But I love the Hispanics.

CUOMO: You have increased your percentage in both of those categories, that's true.

TRUMP: I'm leading with Hispanics and I'm leading with the African- Americans. Well, if that's the case, and if I'm going to get 25 percent African-American, we're going to have a tremendous victory for the Republicans.

Because no Republican that's ever gotten more than 9 percent or 10 percent. And I said I'm going to do great with the African-Americans because I'm going to create jobs and Obama is not creating jobs for them.

[07:50:09] CUOMO: Well, as we --

TRUMP: I'm going to create jobs and I'm going to create wealth for them. So I've been saying this for a long time. So when that poll came out two days ago that I'm leading with African-Americans and leading with Hispanics, I was the only one that wasn't surprised.

CUOMO: That I'm sure is true. Mr. Trump, as always, we appreciate you coming on to explain the situation and your positions. We look forward to you putting more meat on the bones as we go forward in this campaign. Congratulations on the recent poll results. Thank you for coming on NEW DAY.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, you be well.

So the big Republican debate is going to be right here on CNN, Wednesday, September 16th at 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. Eastern. The big question is who makes it to the big stage. "AC360" is going to be the final tally on which candidates will be up there front and center.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, you've given us a lot to (inaudible). We just heard from Donald Trump and we'll break down the headlines of that with former adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod. He is standing by with his notes and thoughts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:16]

CAMEROTA: I hope you caught Chris's conversation moments ago with Republican frontrunner Donald Trump. Let's break it all down with President Obama's former senior advisor and CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod. David, where do we begin? What jump out of you?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have to congratulate Chris for drawing him out of his shell. I thought he did a good job on that.

CAMEROTA: You're right, he's usually a wallflower.

AXELROD: Donald Trump has had some success because he's completely unfiltered. He says whatever comes into his head. Whatever he's thinking at that moment, that's what he's going so say. He's in that sense the anti-politician. I think people response to that.

CAMEROTA: I mean, is he unfiltered or is he fearless? He goes after these topics that other people don't touch. He questioned Ben Carson's faith.

AXELROD: I think Ben Carson's faith is beyond question. I think what's clear and what Chris pointed out is that when you attack Trump he attacks back and sometimes in thoughtless ways. It could have some negative impacts among Evangelicals who know Carson.

I think I have a replica remedy theory of presidential politics. People generally choose the remedy to what they have. They never choose the replica. There's no one who's more of an anti-Obama than Donald Trump in his style, in his presentation.

People chose President Obama because they thought George Bush was too impulsive, too bombastic. They wanted someone who was thoughtful, deliberate, measured, who saw the nuance, the gray. Donald trump says I know how to do deals. The whole world boils down to a deal. I'm the best deal-maker. I'll take care of this, that's his message.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: He's has a real skill at reframing a conversation that he has had. Chris pointedly asked him about the comments that he made about Carly Fiorina and instead of just answering, he sort of made a new statement. He tried to reframe how he spoke about her quite pointedly in "Rolling Stone" magazine. Is that going to play?

AXELROD: I think it plays at this stage. As I said earlier, I think when it gets to the talent rounds and not the swim suit competition, he's going to get scrutinized much more on these comments. But he said something interesting during that interview.

Jeb Bush is not an entertainer, he doesn't know -- Donald Trump is an entertainer. He said -- I saw a biography of him where he said that Flo Zeigfeld, the Broadway entertainer, was his hero. He is an entertainer and he knows how to use this medium and part of this is redirecting questions to his own liking and utility.

CAMEROTA: I thought he said something radical that we hadn't heard before. When Chris asked him about the Kentucky situation, he said I embrace both sides. That is something a politician never says because you have to stay within your party lines.

AXELROD: That's a danger for him. If he really believes that he might be president and he starts making political decisions about how he answers these questions, I think that could ultimately -- I was wondering how Evangelicals who listened to that responded to that answer.

CAMEROTA: Don't you think that voters who hear that say, finally, someone doesn't adhere to what they're supposed to say for their party. Aren't we looking for somebody who can see both sides?

AXELROD: Yes. But what I think he was trying to do is walk a narrow political path there. He started off by saying we're a nation of laws, but when he tried to embrace her position and I think really --

CUOMO: He's starting to get corrupted and give political answers.

AXELROD: The problem with being in the political process is ultimately you become a politician and that's the danger for Donald Trump as well.

CUOMO: Look, it is a challenge to interview Donald Trump, because he is very good at deflecting questions. He's better than most at doing it. Then you have to decide whether or not what point matters enough to continue to press. You will hear the question about Carly Fiorina, what it seems like in the text and how he responds and then people judge.

CAMEROTA: David, it's been great having you onset with us.

AXELROD: Thank you. I hope you defend my hair as well.

PEREIRA: He will.

CAMEROTA: Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm leading with all of the evangelicals. Ben Carson, you look at his faith and I think you're not going to find so much. Carly Fiorina has had a terrible past.