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Clinton Wrote Classified E-mails Using Private Server; CNN Changes Criteria For Next GOP Debate; Kentucky Clerk Refuses To Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 2, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI now joining a manhunt for three suspects who shot and killed a police officer in Illinois. They are assisting state and local police using choppers canine teams to track down the trio some 69 miles north of Chicago.

The gunman killed a 30-year Fox Lake police veteran, Joe Gliniewicz Tuesday as he pursued them on foot. Several school districts in the area are shut down this morning as this manhunt intensifies.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, Baltimore police are gearing up for possible unrest this morning as a hearing gets under way for the six officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray. Some motions to be considered are whether to try the officers together or separately and whether State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby should get moved off the case over conflicts of interest. Freddie Gray died in police custody as you recall back in April from a spinal cord injury.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever craved an Egg McMuffin at dinner time?

BERMAN: Have I ever not?

CAMEROTA: Now there will be no problem, John Berman, because starting October 6th, McDonald's announces it will begin serving breakfast all day long.

PEREIRA: America cheers and cries at the same time.

CAMEROTA: They started testing the concept in select markets months ago. In the past year, 120,000 requests for all-day breakfasts were registered on Twitter, most of them from John Berman. I have a surprise for you guys -- Sausage McMuffin.

PEREIRA: I'm an Egg McMuffin -- hash browns.

CAMEROTA: I have four left.

PEREIRA: You know who is going to be a little jealous of this although he'll be able to in a market near him too. John King, "Inside Politics," breakfast all day. I know this changed your day, did it not? JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": I'm feeling left out. Isn't technology to the point where I can reach through and if you can hand me that. Give it up, Berman. Enjoy your snack.

We are going "Inside Politics" here and have a little fun I think. With me this morning to share their reporting and their insights, Margaret Talev of "Bloomberg News" and Lisa Lerer of the "Associated Press."

Let's start, we were talking we came on the air and I said, you know, Hillary Clinton is in the eye of the beholder. I think that's kind of true because people think they know her and have made their judgments.

There's a story in "The Washington Post" this morning about the e-mail controversy that will further the controversy and the political debate about it.

The key point in the story is that while secretary of state, she wrote and sent at least six e-mails using her private server that contained what the government now says is classified information. I want to show you what they look like.

You get the e-mails released by the government and you see a lot of blank space on the paper. If you look on the screen, where you see the blank that's redacted materials, materials the government says is classified.

I would note the classification is stamped 8/27/2015, meaning last week. Hillary Clinton has not been secretary of state for quite some time and the government now says it's classified.

Republicans say we told you so. You were handling sensitive information on a private server, you should have known better. Hillary Clinton will say as I've said all along it was not classified at that time. I did nothing wrong.

MARGARET TALEV, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": Right, it wasn't marked classified so I haven't said anything that isn't technically true. You get into this sort of Clinton problem, which is when is a classified e-mail classified e-mail, right?

Where there's smoke there's fire or where there's smoke there's smoke. It's still to be determined. As this goes forward, these six e-mails now in question create enough of a predicate, enough of questions to keep this controversy potentially going. It's very much up in the air. It's not open and shut case.

LISA LERER, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": Look, Margaret is right. The details are sort of mind spinning. You can't quite wrap your heads around it. If we can't wrap our minds around it, certainly the average voter can't really unpack that, either.

The issue, the concern is that this sets an early narrative, and it's an old narrative in this case with the Clintons that they are not trustworthy, that they consider themselves above the law. That is dangerous to her campaign.

Frankly the campaign doesn't know how to stop it. They have tried a bunch of different approaches. They tried not engaging this and trying to rise above it. They have tried engaging with it really hard and pushing back hard. Neither has worked. The only thing that may change the page on this topic for Hillary Clinton may just be Joe Biden.

KING: May just be Joe Biden, maybe her testimony, maybe getting to the end of the release, but Hillary Clinton says she wants it to be transparent. It's all being done because of a lawsuit and a federal judge has said you must release these, month by month my month, which is going to take us into next year.

So we are not going to be past this for quite some time I would say of this. She knew she was taking one of the most sensitive jobs in the world. She knew she was taking it at that time even more so now. Back then, cyber security is a big issue.

She knew her last name is Clinton, which brings extra scrutiny and she knew she might run for president. She should have done it on a government server. If she had, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LERER: But had she done it on a government server, she wouldn't be able to pick the e-mails that she released. The e-mails that we are dealing with, that are released on that monthly court order disclosure are only the ones that Hillary Clinton has already decided pertain to work.

[07:35:10] The ones she decided don't pertain to work we don't see and nobody is overseen that other than her and her staff.

KING: You e-mail about your personal life and about your coming dog adoption, you do it on a separate email account, right?

TALEV: We do that by phone. No record whatsoever.

KING: There was a way out of this for Secretary Clinton, I will say that and we just leave it there. You mentioned Joe Biden. You are getting on Air Force Two and going to the great state of Florida with the vice president of the United States.

He's going to do an education event today. He does a town hall on the Iran deal tomorrow trying to convince skeptical Democrats mostly to get on board with this deal. Then he moves on to Georgia and does another event on the Iran deal.

He's marching in a Labor Day parade in Pennsylvania. With top labor leaders, then he's going to be on the first week of Stephen Colbert when he takes over for David Letterman. What am I to make of this?

TALEV: We all want to see, like, you know, how is he going to do it? He's not going to announce anything. He'll be coy. All of these are official stops on behalf of President Obama's official policies. These are Iran and the community colleges, the economy.

You know, helping out Democrats running for Senate. But, embedded in all these things is his kind of tryout, his quiet tryout for testing the waters. How much appetite is there?

Everybody loves Joe Biden. Many in the Democratic establishment think he is a more viable alternative than Bernie Sanders if Hillary Clinton has a problem in December or January. Biden is a perpetual vice president in waiting.

The whole premise of his candidacy is that he's there in case Hillary Clinton collapses. That's really frustrating for him. If he had to make a decision about his viability, the reason to get in now is in case something happens later.

KING: But as you get more and more public about this, he's leaning in and doing public events at a time everyone is thinking about this. Number one, it's smart politically. The second he says he's not running, if that he loses leverage. At a time he's thinking and going through political and emotional parts of it, to lean this far forward is going to ratchet it up the speculation machine.

LERER: I have to tell you, every day I talk to people in Washington. Every day I get a different assessment about whether he's running or not, 60/40, yes, 70/30, no. Nobody knows except the vice president and his close family and aides, if he's decided yet.

We don't know. But you're right it's smart politically for him to lean in. The truth is, this would be hard. I was at the DNC summer meeting in Minneapolis. There wasn't much of an outcry for Joe Biden.

Hillary Clinton has more than 400 people working for her. She has a huge machine. It is not late, right? But it is late in the context of presidential politics and the amount of machinery used to build in a serious of ways. It would be an organizational lift for him.

KING: CNN announced we were amending our criteria for the second presidential debate. It's complicated, actually it's not. The change will allow Carly Fiorina a place on the debate stage. She was doing an interview with Megan McCain. Carly Fiorina says she got a text. You have listen to this priceless moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Literally, as we are speaking, I just got a text that CNN amended their GOP debate criteria?

MEGHAN MCCAIN: Shut up! Does that mean you will be on the stage?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I'm not sure what will be more fun. She said nice things about CNN. That's two presidential candidates. We know Meghan McCain is told to shut up. What are we to make of this? There are maybe 11 podiums on the debate stage next month, there may be ten.

The amended rules are essentially to deal with the Carly Fiorina, the slingshot candidate out of the last debate. It was unclear she was going to get the spot.

LERER: They want a woman on the stage given that Hillary Clinton seems like she is the Democratic nominee. They are happy about it. You know, it makes for a better debate. We are happy about it. Good job CNN.

TALEV: A good problem to a crowded field. This is a decision to include a female candidate who is fairly dynamic and generated a lot of interest.

KING: And Michaela as we say, this is the all is well that ends well. If you are divided between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, Bush's campaign is trying a quiz on their website to go through a list of questions to see which candidate you prefer. When you are done with your Egg McMuffins, just for sport.

[07:40:05] PEREIRA: I think he's going for three or four, John Berman. It will take a minute.

KING: Wheel him out of there.

PEREIRA: We'll have to. All right, John, great conversation there. Thank you so much.

A Kentucky clerk claims to be acting on God's authority to fine the Supreme Court and refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses. Kim Davis is going to have to answer to a federal judge. Where does the fight go next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are supposed to issue marriage licenses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not issuing them today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Supreme Court said you have to. Why are you not issuing marriage licenses today? Under whose authority?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God's authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That scene played out in Kentucky where Roen County Clerk Kim Davis still refuses to issue same-sex marriage licenses even though the Supreme Court ruled against her. Davis is now being ordered to appear in federal court tomorrow. What happens now?

Jeffrey Toobin is here. He can parse it all out for us. He is a CNN legal analyst and a former prosecutor.

[07:45:05] So this news that she's been summoned to court to be present at this hearing, Thursday 11 a.m. in Ashland, Kentucky Federal Court. She can file a response to this contempt of court motion by the end of day today. She's got to answer this.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: She does. The judge said you can file a response but only five pages. When a judge says five pages, they do not want to hear much from you. We talk about a lot of complicated difficult issues. This is not one of them.

PEREIRA: It isn't.

TOOBIN: You know, the law could not be clearer, in all 50 states, in every county, gay people, straight people, have an equal right to be married. She has to perform these weddings or she has to leave her job.

PEREIRA: What kind of recourse does Kentucky have? She is an elected official, is she not? She can't just be fired or handed walking papers?

TOOBIN: The immediate question is what recourse does the federal court have? The federal court is the one sort of in charge of the situation now. They can hold her in contempt and establish a series of fines. They can lock her up.

When you don't comply with a federal court order, the judge has the right and this judge here seems quite willing to impose penalties to make you comply. That's what contempt of court is.

PEREIRA: The plaintiffs have actually asked that they not put in her in prison, but that she would be fine. Do you think that's likely what's going to happen?

TOOBIN: The plaintiffs are being pretty sophisticated. They don't want to create a martyr. They don't want to make her a celebrity or make her someone who is a sympathetic figure.

PEREIRA: Do you think that was in play here with this person? If the law is clear here, what is her end game?

TOOBIN: I don't think she has thought it through in that way. I think martyr is her end game because legally she has no recourse. She is not going to win. In thinking about the story, what strikes me is not how much opposition there is to the Supreme Court, but how little.

I mean, this decision is only a couple months old. Same-sex marriage used to be a controversial issue in this country. We have one county clerk in one county in Kentucky who is making a stand here. But look at the silence everywhere else. Look how everyone else is complying.

PEREIRA: What's interesting is she has been saying to people, go to another county and get your marriage license. There are going to be people who will say, why not quit your job? If you want to take a stand, object that way by walking off the job. TOOBIN: The government cannot operate that way. If she said to an interracial couple that came to her, I have a moral, religious objection to your marriage as many people did and some perhaps still do, you can get married but just not in my county. We don't recognize that -- legally, the situation is precisely --

PEREIRA: There's the contempt of court motion. She is also trying to take her case to the Supreme Court, right?

TOOBIN: She's trying. They have already once denied a stay.

PEREIRA: Right. She's appealing it.

TOOBIN: She's appealing it, but there is no legal recourse. The Supreme Court ruled on precisely this issue. So, there is nothing more for the Supreme Court to decide. This is not the same thing as the issue of the florists and the wedding photographers who are private sector people.

I mean, I think, legally, they don't have a leg to stand on either, but it's more complicated because they are private sector. They can act on their religious beliefs, but when she represents it government, it's a much easier legal question.

PEREIRA: I want to pull up what the Kentucky ACLU filing has found, the Kentucky's religious freedom restoration act. The ACLU sayS this court found the burden under Davis' religious beliefs more slight than substantial.

The governor asked Davis to signify that couples meet the legal requirements to marry did not restrict her ability to engage in a very of religious activities and did not compel her condone or approve same-sex marriage. They are not asking her to endorse it, just do her job.

TOOBIN: Do her job.

PEREIRA: Which show swore an oath to do.

TOOBIN: That's right. The other point, it is not just about her rights, it's about the rights of people in her county to get married. When you work for the government, you have the right to grant or deny marriages, whereas, if you are a wedding photographer, you can go to a different caterer, it's a different situation.

PEREIRA: Marriage license is a different situation.

TOOBIN: You know what's amazing? We have had this entire conversation and not yet mentioned that she's been married four times.

PEREIRA: There is that. The moral authority she stands on a little shaky --

[07:50:06] TOOBIN: I would say it colors the debate.

PEREIRA: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, great talking to you -- Alisyn. CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela, Hillary Clinton's e-mails causing headaches for her and her supporters. A prominent supporter, Retired General Wesley Clark joins us to break down the whole 2016 race, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: OK, time for today's "New Day, New You." Running does not just make you healthy. It turns out it makes you happy. New research explains why. Scientists at the University of Montreal say it may be thanks to a fat hormone called leptin.

They say that when you run, leptin levels fall and when that happens, the body releases dopamine. The so-called reward chemical so the end result is a jolt of happiness best known as a runner's high even better that runner's high may make you more inclined to exercise more.

[05:55:05] PEREIRA: Isn't it interesting how the lady who just force fed us Egg McMuffins is now telling us this -- mixed messages.

All right, 7:55 is the time in the east here. As we speak, an intense manhunt is underway in Illinois. Are police getting any closer to capturing those men? We'll have the latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officer down Fox Lake. Subjects are armed and dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cop killers on the loose and a community on edge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A massive search is now underway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think they're going to leave a rock unturned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a very tough time to be a police officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeb Bush firing off his harshest attack so far.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In many cases I probably identify more as a Democrat.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Using his own words is not a mischaracterization. They came out of his own mouth.

TRUMP: He's way down in the polls.

CAMEROTA: Secretary of State John Kerry delivering a major speech on the Iran deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am voting for this agreement because it is our most credible opportunity now. CAMEROTA: President Obama now one vote away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When somebody says they want to cut your throat, the last thing you should do is buy them a knife.

(END VIDEOTAPE)