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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Policeman's Killers on the Run; Judge Keeps Charges in Baltimore; Iran Deal Milestone. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 2, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:11] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We've got breaking news on CNN. Somewhere out there right now, either running or hiding, are three people that police believe either shot to death a police lieutenant or certainly know who did that.

This is the scene outside of Chicago. The frantic and immediate ground and air search has ended but police are not giving up on finding those three suspicious people who were being chased by Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz yesterday. Other cops found the body of Lieutenant Gliniewicz a short time later. He'd been shot to death with his own weapon missing. So far they have no witnesses in this case. Joe Gliniewicz had been a police officer for 32 years. The next voice you hear is the police dispatcher calling for help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCH: Could you start for Fox Lake for an officer down, 128 Honing Road. We'll create the call? They were responding to a report of a suspicious, a male black and a male white. It appears the officer's gun is missing now.

DISPATCH: All the county units are responding to officer down, Fox Lake. Subjects are to be considered armed and dangerous. Air one has been advised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Rosa Flores is in Fox Lake live right now, in Illinois.

And, Rosa, we're hearing that there may actually be some surveillance video. Do we know anything about that?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the commander tells me, Ashleigh, that they do have some surveillance video and they have investigators going through that video, trying to figure out if there is anything good that they can release to the public that will help them find these individuals. But I want to make something very clear. While that perimeter, that door to door search has ended, of course they want to find these guys, of course they are still trying to search and investigate and they are following every lead. The commander also tells me that they have received more than 100 tips and they are following those leads, trying to find these three men. But like I said, that perimeter where they went door to door and

cleared abandoned buildings because they tell me that in this particular area there are abandoned buildings where a lot of the times there are squatters, there are overgrown marshes as well. And it's surrounded by a subdivision with homes and people and that was the big concern. But that search does continue, Ashleigh, like you mentioned, in a different way. They are trying to figure out where this - these men are and they are trying to find them.

Now, the latest will come in about 45 minutes. We're expecting a new briefing by the commander who's now in charge of these - this investigation because he tells me, Rosa, he says the immediate search, the door-to-door manhunt is over. We are in a second phase of this investigation. And they, of course, want to find the three men, the three suspects in this case, that they believe are responsible for the death of this police officer.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I mean from the outsider's perspective, Rosa, it appears they are chasing ghosts. I mean without really any names or faces to go on and simply a description of two white males and an African- American male, or a black male, are they perhaps holding information? Do we know if they have anything better to go on than just that?

FLORES: You know, I asked them that question about perhaps witnesses, someone around there that saw something, any other information and he said, Rosa, this is - this is a sparse area where there's nothing around there. And so that's why they're trying to use surveillance video from around that area to see if they perhaps saw these three men walking or a police officer approaching or the short foot chase. Anything that they can use to go on.

But he also said, you know, at this point, we don't know if we're going to have a development in hours or weeks, Ashleigh, because he said that while they're following every lead, not every lead is great. He says a lot of the tips that we're getting are people - from people that have second or third hand information that said, oh, we saw three men walking down the streets. And then, you know, they told somebody at the bar and the person at the bar called. And so while they're following every lead, he does say that they have limited information. And I should be clear, too, they have a lot of resources on their local, state, and federal. They tell me that U.S. Marshals, ATF, FBI, they're all providing resources but they have different resources available because -

BANFIELD: Sure.

FLORES: As you know, Ashleigh, these federal agencies have, you know, cyber units and so the cyber units are focusing on that surveillance video, making sure that they look at every frame to see if they have any sight of these three individuals that they're searching for.

BANFIELD: Well sometimes, you know, it's hard to tell who it is we're seeing on the ground with those aerial shots, but there is a mass dispatch out to that area and has been for the last 24 hours. [12:05:05] Rosa Flores, thank you.

The place where this long-time veteran police lieutenant died is a nightmare for anyone searching for the killer, whatever the search now entails. We can tell you this, there are heavy woods, a swamp, abandoned buildings, railroad tracks, you name it. Officials running the search for these suspects say all three of them could very well be in another state by now. Ron Martinelli is a forensics criminologist, former street cop and detective and educator.

So, Ron, I think the question for you is this, perhaps the best news in all of this is that these three fugitives had no chance to pre- plan, had no efforts in the offings to help them get through what they're going through, and that has got to be a major help to the police who seemingly have nothing else to go on.

RON MARTINELLI, FORENSIC CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes, I would agree, Ashleigh. This looks like a spontaneous crime that was precipitated after a foot pursuit by Officer Gliniewicz. The problem here is that the suspects apparently have gotten outside of the perimeter of the containment search area and so now the investigation takes on, you know, a different paradigm. We don't have the suspects at the scene, so we need to be looking at some of these things.

In the search within the crime scene, the first thing we have to establish was, was the officer shot with his own gun or was he shot with a gun that the suspects might have? Fairly easy to determine this, even though neither gun is at the crime scene. The cartridges, if it's the officer's gun, the cartridges are going to be the same types of cartridges that the police officers use in that department. And that's fairly easy determine. If they are not those cartridges, then we're talking about an outside gun.

BANFIELD: And then you're talking about chasing three ghosts with an outside ghost gun. But there is this one notion, and that is that at least one of them murdered a police officer and maybe two others did not. Does that not tell you that there will be some dissention in their ranks and that that may also aid law enforcement to find them?

MARTINELLI: I - 9 think so. What we have to determine is - is issues of proprietary interest. What this means is, the way the crime scene's manipulated, something that the suspects may have left at the crime scene or taken from the crime scene. My understanding is they took some of the officers' equipment besides his handgun, which is unusual. Whoever shot the officer, I would agree with you, there's going to be some dissension in the ranks. I think law enforcement will eventually find these people. Of course, they're going over forensically the video. Even though it's poor quality, is officers do have labs where they can enhance it. I know we do in my firm.

BANFIELD: Ask you something and it occurred to me, when a child goes missing, those first few moments and hours are critical. When you're looking for fugitives, is that the same situation? And with that in mind, is a small community like Fox Lake and its, I'm guessing, small force equipped to put the kind of resources that you need to put right away to do the best work at the very first moment? MARTINELLI: You know, those are good questions. First of all, I think

we all understand that the officers are behind the curve here in their investigation because they're reacting to an officer down. This isn't the same type of search as we look for with a child because we expect to find the child. We're looking for persons that are trying to evade us. So that's a completely different issue.

But I believe that - and, by the way, they're using a multiagency approach here, which is the only way you can do it, because a small town like, you know, Fox Lake is not prepared at all to conduct any type of wide scale search.

BANFIELD: But they certainly do have the resources of the federal government and more that's descended upon them.

Ron Martinelli, thank you for your insight. We appreciate that.

I want to ask our viewers to say with CNN because coming up this hour we're going to hear from Fox Lake Police on this manhunt and we're going to bring you that live as well.

And we have this breaking news as well in the Freddie Gray death case. There is a judge in that case who has just made some very key rulings even before this case goes to trial, addressing the calls for the prosecutor to be recused, taken off that case. A very public prosecutor. A very public case. We're going to take you live to Maryland and tell you what that judge said, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:04] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And our breaking news comes to us from Baltimore. A judge there has just refused to throw out all of those charges up to and including the murder charges that six police officers there are facing after being implicated in the death of Freddie Gray. You may remember, Freddie Gray was arrested back in April. He had a knife that allegedly was illegal. There is argument about that. But, ultimately, Freddie Gray died of a severed spinal cord while in custody.

So today, lawyers for the so-called Freddie Gray Six, the six officers charged in his death, well, they all went to court with allegations of their own. Of prosecutor misconduct and of conflict of interest and they did not prevail in that courtroom. At least not yet, because there is certainly more to come.

I want to go live to Miguel Marquez, who is standing by. He was in that courtroom when that came down. Jean Casarez is also with us. But first to the reporting.

Miguel Marquez, if you could, give me a sense of what happened in court. Where all six of those officer there with all of their attorneys at defense tables?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You had 12 - over 12 attorneys for the defense at present there. You had about seven lawyers for the prosecution, including the state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby, in that courtroom. Everybody focused very much on this very first day of this hearing. The absent people very loudly not there were the defendants themselves. They all waved their rights to appear in court today. The judge denying both motions, the motion to dismiss and the motion to recuse the entire state's attorney's office.

At one point the prosecution -- the defense arguing that it was Marilyn Mosby's own words on May 1st, when she talked about no justice, no peace and made those words and said those words that the entire word said, that those words tainted the jury pool, that she took aside, that she was giving her opinion of whether or not those police officers were guilty or innocent. The judge threw all that out saying that was in a probable cause statement. It was public knowledge and that is something that the state's attorney certainly had the right to say.

[12:15:23] The one thing the judge did take issue with was the state's attorney at - during the question and answer period of that - of that press conference saying that all the state - the police officers had given statements during the course of the investigation. That, he said, she should have known better on.

With regard to the motion to recuse, the defense lawyers had a litany of issues, that her husband represents the district that was affected by the riots here, that Billy Murphy, a well-known attorney here, gave to her campaign. That her own investigators looked into the case and might have to serve as witnesses on this case as well. The judge threw all that out saying that there - these are coincidences, basically, not conflicts of interest and this trial will go ahead, saying that any evidentiary issues that the court will be able to deal with, whether it's this court or the - or whatever court this goes to.

This afternoon we will hear whether or not all the trial - all the lawyers or all the defendants, all those police officers will be heard individually or as separate cases. That may take some time to get through. And then next week will be the big hearing here, which will be whether or not that trial will take place here in Baltimore.

One thing that the judge did say today, though, is that he did believe that whether it was here in Baltimore or any other jurisdiction, he thought they could get a jury.

Back to you.

BANFIELD: And there was - there are a couple things I was reading and trying to process as you were talking, so forgive me if I'm asking a question you've already answered, but there was that issue of severance. That's the legal term for saying, "give me my own case, my own courtroom, my own trial. I don't want to be tied to these five other people." And I know that was on the agenda for today. Did you already tell me whether she's ruled on that? Will they be severed? Will they be severed in groups?

MARQUEZ: That's - that's coming up. That's coming up. That - that's -

BANFIELD: Go ahead. MARQUEZ: That's coming up this afternoon. That has not been argued yet.

BANFIELD: OK.

MARQUEZ: The defense lawyers want all of their clients to have separate trials, six separate trials. It is not clear how the prosecution wants this divided up, whether or not it's just the two arresting officers, for instance, and then the other officers tried as a separate case. The other officers involved in the transport of Mr. Gray -

BANFIELD: OK.

MARQUEZ: Tried in this separate case. That is not clear. We will go through that this afternoon. There are no time limits on that one, so this may take a bit longer.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK. Miguel Marquez, thank you for that. Stand by, if you will.

I want to go over to Jean Casarez, who's also standing by at that very busy courthouse.

I wasn't sure that Marilyn Mosby, the state attorney herself, would be actually first chair and trying that case, but it certainly appears that way.

So, Jean, walk me through the critical elements of these first appearances. They don't usually even make news, these - these first hearings. But this one is big and it's very important. Why?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is - it is huge, Ashleigh, because the headline, this trial is going forward and, number two, it is going to be prosecuted by Marilyn Mosby and the state attorney's office right here in Baltimore. And there is a change of venue motion last week, but the state attorney's office is in this city. She is the one that came out and was the face of this case on those steps on May 1st, talking about the probable cause statement, which was really the main thing the defense used in trying to dismiss all or some of these charges.

We have with us right now Attorney Andrew Alperstein, who is a defense lawyer, a former prosecutor, a CNN contributor.

You were in the courtroom. You've seen it from both sides. And I think the first question I want to ask you is, a big win for the defense so far today all the way around. Can the prosecutor win? Can the defense appeal this decision?

ANDREW ALPERSTEIN, ATTORNEY: There's not going to be any appeals right now. The issue -

CASAREZ: Not even to the court of appeal, an interlocutory appeal, an appeal before the trial?

ALPERSTEIN: That's not going to happen. The law doesn't provide for it in this case in Maryland. What's interesting about the day is that the judge sort of left out the tidbit of - the allegations against Ms. Mosby that those would be heard in another place if they were going to be heard. He wasn't in power to hear those. That is the ethics allegations related to her statement that we all saw on May 1st right near here, a very powerful speech that she gave. That, he said, it's not within his power to rule and this context and that will be dealt - that will be dealt with elsewhere.

As to the other allegations, he denied them. The defense lost all those motions today. I don't think a lot of people thought they were going to win those motions today, at least the one this morning. This afternoon, we'll hear about joinder and severance, whereas Miguel said, we're going to - we're going to hear about whether or not the defendants are successful in having the cases separated or severed. And then a really big issue, probably the biggest of all these pre- trail motions, will be this change of venue motion, which is scheduled for next Thursday where the defense is trying to have the case removed from Baltimore all together.

[12:20:05] CASAREZ: But how - how strong was their argument today because they laid out many, many pages of motions in regard to dismissing the charges, that the prosecutor had really become a witness, her office became witnesses because of the investigation that they were holding at the very same time.

ALPERSTEIN: It was a lot of mudslinging but the judge found no merit in any of it. That's the short answer.

CASAREZ: All right. Ashleigh, I want to tell you that protests, there were some protests. They were peaceful. One arrest. We'll see what happens the rest of the day. Ashleigh, back to you.

BANFIELD: Yes, that's a big part of that change of venue issue as well if you've got protesters showing up at court. You know, this is the jury pool, so this will be a critical, critical hearing that we hear about. Jean Casarez doing the job for us. Andrew Alperstein, thank you to both of you.

We also have big news with the Iran nuclear deal. Guess what? Word is, looks like a done deal, meaning lawmakers who don't want it are not going to be able to block it despite all the ads you've seen. This is a major victory for President Obama. We are going to detail this for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: As far as the United States was concerned, negotiating a comprehensive multinational agreement to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons was only half the battle. Selling that agreement to Congress was the other half and maybe even the tougher half. But today it appears that that battle for all practical purposes is over as a 34th senator went on the record in support, the Obama administration gained enough votes to block any move by that deal's opponents. Most, but not all of them, Republicans. You know, the ones who wanted to kill the deal.

[12:25:18] In a speech that amounted to a victory lap of sorts, and in Philadelphia, the secretary of state, John Kerry, insisted that this deal doesn't depend on trust.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Without this agreement, the IAEA would not have assured access to undeclared locations in Iran where suspicious activities might be taking place. The agency could seek access, but if Iran objected, there would be no sure method for resolving a dispute in a finite period, which is exactly what has led us to where we are today, that standoff. With this agreement, the IAEA can go wherever the evidence leads. No facility, declared or undeclared, will be off limits and there is a time certain for assuring access.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: CNN's global affairs correspondent Elise Labott has been following this process from the very first genesis of this deal.

Look, I don't need to explain how much healthy skepticism, criticism, outrage, opposition there is to this deal, the lobby efforts, the commercials on television -

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BANFIELD: And yet here we are saying it's a done deal. Two questions, is it really, and then, what about the implementation of it if it is a done deal?

LABOTT: Well, it's a done deal in theory, right, Ashleigh? I mean everyone is saying these 34 senators now are saying that they will support the deal. But, you know, the secretary came here with the knowledge that they were probably going to get there but they're not taking, officials say, any vote for granted and so he wants to come here and lay out the - what he calls the mix (ph) of the deal. And so they're not just hoping for 34, they're hoping to get really a lot more of a consensus on this deal.

The implementation is going to take a long time. You know just the signing of the deal is not enough and Congress signing off is not enough. Now comes the thorny part of the implementation and making sure that Iran holds up to its end of the bargain. You know, the secretary said in the speech that, you know, they've had this interim agreement going on for 19 months and he said Iran has not violated any of it. So - but what he's saying is, this is not based on trust. This is based on science and the idea that when they sat down and negotiated this, they also sat down with experts to make sure that the verification, the implementation would be as good on paper as it would be in theory.

BANFIELD: All right, Elise Labott, doing a great job of following all this arcane business that you have been and making it sound simple. Thank you, Elise. And coming up at the top of the hour, you're going to hear more from the secretary himself. John Kerry in a one-on-one interview with CNN. So stay tuned for that.

And then also back to our top story, the search for the suspects in the shooting death of an Illinois police officer. We are just minutes away by a live briefing by law enforcement in that case and we're going to bring it to you just as soon as it happens.

Then we have another story we're following for you as well. A video showing the shooting of a man in Texas. It really appall so many people. But there is a brand new detail that has been shared with CNN from a law enforcement source that could really explain why those officers saw that man as a legitimate threat. It's the story you perhaps have not yet heard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)