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DR. DREW

Was Murder of A Texas Sheriff`s Deputy Inspired by the "Black Lives Matter" Movement?; Trump Versus Bush: War of Words; Josh Duggar Allegedly Getting Treatment for His Sex Addiction. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired September 1, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a sheriff`s deputy executed, is Black Lives Matter to blame?

Plus, Donald versus Jeb. The billionaire rich and the bush. And, it all starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." The murder of a Texas Deput,

was it inspired by the "Black Lives Matter" movement or a protest. Watch this, originally posted on Twitter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD (singing): Pigs in a blanket fry like bacon. Pigs in a blanket fry like bacon. Pigs in a blanket fry like bacon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST OF "NEWSROOM": Explain to me, with this video, why protesters would use this kind of language?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us, Evy Poumpouras, Security Expert, former special agent secret service. Areva Martin, Attorney and legal commentator. Michael

Catherwood, he of course my "Love Line" and KABC Radio co-host, 790 AM, "Chain Reaction" host on GSN.

Omarosa Manigault, political commentator, former contestant on "The Apprentice," and we got John Cardillo, former New York Police Officer, host

of the "John Cardillo" show.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, John.

JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER/ HOST OF THE "JOHN CARDILLO" SHOW: Hi.

PINSKY: Hi, John. Areva, you think there is any relationship between the words and the shootings?

MARTIN: None whatsoever, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: None whatsoever?

MARTIN: None whatsoever. First of all, let us look at what happened factually, the protests that we have been seeing on T.V. happened in

Minnesota. It happened in those -- that 30 second chant happened after the sheriff was shot. There is no evidence that this shooter knew about "Black

Lives Matter," was a part of that organization or was an activist at all.

What we do know is that he was a career criminal with severe mental health issues, had been deemed incompetent by the court and nothing at all linking

him to the "Black Lives Matter" organization. I think the sheriff was irresponsible in making that pronouncement so early on before an

investigation.

PINSKY: All right. But, listen, Evy, do you agree with me -- and Mike, I want you to ring in to this just a second too. Do you agree with me that

the most vulnerable amongst us are the ones that can be swayed by the rhetoric of the prevailing conversation in the society at large, the stuff

you see on T.V.?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT SECRET SERVICE: Yes, I think, you know, the primary focus of Black Lives Matter, is a positive

one; but, I do think you are going to have people, some rogue people take that and distort it and possibly use it for their own incentives. You are

always going to have people take something that is good, and use it and manipulate it --

PINSKY: OK.

POUMPOURAS: And, I think that is what we may have to some of these issues.

PINSKY: All right. And, Mike, this guy had a lot of liabilities, right? He is not well.

MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST AND "CHAIN REACTION" HOST ON GSN: Yes, like Areva alluded to earlier. In 2012, he was found

mentally incompetent by courts after he was charged in the beating of another homeless man at the shelter he was living in, all over a T.V.

remote.

PINSKY: And, then he spent six months in a state psychiatric hospital.

CATHERWOOD: Right.

PINSKY: To me, it is a little bit of an indictment of our mental health system. And, that six months in treatment and then he still slips out and

is able to continue to decompensate. But, I think, John, I suspect you have a slightly different opinion of all this. I think you do think there

is a connection?

CARDILLO: Well, I do, right. And, I, actually, find myself agreeing with Evy tonight. Look, Areva and I might disagree, but I think Areva is

fundamentally a good person who does not want to see violence.

(LAUGHING)

OMAROSA MANIGAULT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR/ FORMER CONTESTANT ON "THE APPRENTICE": That is good to know.

CARDILLO: But, I think, Areva --

MARTIN: Thank you, John.

CARDILLO: Hold on. But, I think, Areva is removed from what is really going on with Black Lives Matter. She is a Harvard Law School graduate,

who does tremendously good charity work. There is a criminal element that she cannot relate to, that has hijacked this movement. And, the movement

now has a severe branding problem.

So, the questions have to be asked, "What is Black Lives Matter? Is it a legitimate organization with people like Areva trying to use legitimate

means to affect change or is it a movement that have been hijacked by violent criminals?

PINSKY: Omarosa. Omarosa.

MANIGAULT: So back to the root of this question. This question came because Elisabeth Hasselbeck asked the question of whether or not this

group should be labeled as a hate group.

PINSKY: Come on. Let me play that for you, OK?

MANIGAULT: Please.

PINSKY: Let us take a look at that interview.

MARTIN: Do I get to respond to John?

PINSKY: You do get to respond, but I want -- Omarosa has the new issue and we are going to look at this interview. Omarosa, finish the thought and

then Areva, you respond. Go ahead. Let us look at this. This is on FOX News. Elisabeth Hasselbeck getting into it with another critic of Black

Lives Matter. Here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BLACKSPHERE: The Black Lives Matter Movement, which can only be described as nonsense is creating a lot

of this type of thing around the country.

ELISABETH HASSELBECK, FOX NEWS & FRIENDS HOST: Sure.

JACKSON: And, it is going to backfire quite honestly.

HASSELBECK: Kevin, why has the Black Lives Movement -- Black Lives Matter Movement not been classified yet as a hate group? I mean how much more has

to go in this direction before someone actually labels it as such.

JACKSON: Well, they should do it, but unfortunately, it is being financed by the leftist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Omarosa.

MANIGAULT: This is the root of where the question about labelling black lives matter as a hate group, and that is ridiculous. First of all, there

is no connection between this man who has mental health issues and the Black Lives Movement.

And, to answer your question, John. I have marched with the Black Lives Movement. I have marched in Baltimore, in Compton, in Ferguson. I could

tell you that they are people who show up just for attention. They have nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.

[21:05:06] PINSKY: What about the hijacking that John is talking about? Did you see that element there?

MANIGAULT: You know, there was an element in a march that had nothing to do with this man killing this deputy. It is insane to make a connection.

PINSKY: But, you agree with him that there has been a little bit of a hijacking by a fringe element?

MANIGAULT: I disagree. I think that in every movement, you are going to have people who want attention, who will throw out incendiary things for no

reason. But, I think it is irresponsible for a journalist, who calls herself a journalist, Elisabeth, to ask a question like this.

PINSKY: OK.

MANIGAULT: The work that they are doing is important and necessary.

PINSKY: All right. Areva, here you go.

MARTIN: Well, first of all, I want to say to John, thank you for reading my resume.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: I noticed --

MARTIN: But --

PINSKY: Areva -- Areva, I noticed he avoided Evy, which was strange.

MARTIN: I was going to say you left a lot out. And, what is important about you left out is John, I grew up in North St. Louis. I know a little

something about the African-American community. The charity work that you described I do on the streets of South Los Angeles.

I worked in poor communities with poor families, who have been impacted by these police shootings across the country. So, I know something about this

firsthand. And, to say that Black Lives Matter has not done any good work like that journalist just said is absolutely ludicrous.

I sat on this program last night, 7,000 Los Angeles Police Officers are now wearing body cameras. And, you have to credit the protests and the

movement by Black Lives Matter for that and in other actions.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

CARDILLO: Hold on, let me respond to that. I do not -- Arva, I do not disagree with you that police accountability is a good thing. I think we

can all agree that is a good thing, the problem is --

MARTIN: That is a big concession for you, John.

CARDILLO: Hold on.

MARTIN: We have never heard that on national television.

(LAUGHING)

MANIGAULT: That is true.

CARDILLO: Of course you have. Of course you have. You guys just are not hearing it but, you know, this as an attorney. All those good things could

be a thousand gallons of fresh water, the minute people march and say, "Let us kill cops. Fry them like bacon," it is oil in the water and the whole

thing is tarnished. No one from Black Lives Matter proper is denouncing this in a public statement.

MANIGAULT: They have denounced it.

CARDILLO: You are not leadership.

MANIGAULT: That is not true, John. They have denounced it.

MARTIN: That is not accurate. That is not accurate.

MANIGAULT: Just use Google, John, seriously. There is no connection between the shooting --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDILLO: Hold on. Where have they denounced it?

MANIGAULT: It is on -- Their statements were released all throughout the day.

CARDILLO: Where: I have not found one. I have not found one.

MANIGAUILT: If you are responsible to say that because one made those statements --

CARDILLO: But, it is not.

MANIGAULT: -- all of the Black Lives Movement has been undermined.

CARDILLO: I have not found any.

PINSKY: Let me get from the audience. Yes, ma`am, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have, more of, an opinion. I just think -- I just find it really interesting that suddenly when cops are

dropping, excuse me, and they are becoming the victim like so many black lives have become, that now all of a sudden it should be all lives matter.

black lives matter, black lives have always matter. And, guess what, the revolution has begun.

MARTIN: Wow!

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Right. Well, do not drop the mic.

MANIGAULT: Ma-ma-my.

PINSKY: And, Evy, this has been a concern of yours as of yesterday, right? Yes, these things do matter but these are not just law-abiding citizens.

These are police officers.

POUMPOURAS: I respect everyone`s opinion, but I am a former law enforcement officer and that does hurts me, because as a law enforcement

officer and John can say this, you put your life on the line for the sake of other people. You really put yourself out there. You are criticized.

You are ridiculed. I mean I have been called all sorts of names --

PINSKY: But, do we have to have a revolution against Evy?

MARTIN: No. But, I think that the problem --

POUMPOURAS: I do not think -- wait, wait. One second. One second.

MARTIN: OK.

POUMPOURAS: I agree the things should change, because there are reasons why people are so upset. There is a reason why there is a Black Lives

Matter Movement, like that is period.

MANIGAULT: Yes.

POUMPOURAS: That is understood.

MANIGAULT: It is called Mike Brown. It is called DuBose. It is called Freddie Gray.

POUMPOURAS: Absolutely.

MANIGAULT: That is the reason.

MANIGAULT: But, at the same time, I do not believe we should be preaching anti-cop, anti-hate. I went through a New York City Police Department, the

academy -- my academy class was very, very diverse.

I mean we had all races, all ethnicities. And, there are some in police department said, do try to do your best; but when you are an officer and

you are out there people just, and you are in law enforcement, people just -- they hate you. They mess with you --

PINSKY: What does she want? She wants no police?

POUMPOURAS: We need police.

MARTIN: No. I do not think that is what she is saying, I think the problem --

POUMPOURAS: If something happens, you are going to be -- the person you are going to call is -- You are going to -- if something happens to you

guys when you go home, you are going to call 911, that is who is going to come help you.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

MARTIN: But, problem is that everyone seems to make an argument of mutually exclusive. You could be for good policing. You could be for

constitutional policing and also be for African-Americans being treated fairly in the criminal justice system.

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: Absolutely. Absolutely.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

MANIGAULT: Absolutely.

PINSKY: But, Areva --

MANIGAULT: Well said, Areva.

PINSKY: - somebody calls for a revolution on this. Is that rhetoric?

MARTIN: What she says -- I thinks it is rhetoric.

PINSKY: I am for Black Life Matters.

MARTIN: And, I do not think this woman, in her defense, I do not know her, but I am going to go out on the limb and say, this woman was not calling

for violence against police officers.

All she was saying is that, when African-Americans are shot by a police, that is something that needs to be addressed in this country and yes we

should be concerned about cops being shot, but we also have to stay focused on the issues of disparities in the criminal justice system.

PINSKY: OK. We will keep it going. And, later Trump versus Bush, their war of words has turned pretty nasty. We are back after this.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

[21:10:05] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POUMPOURAS: The moment we have a white officer get involved in a shootout with an African-American, automatically that stereotype is in there, that

"Oh, this must have been racist." We should know what happen before we start calling people racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Out lives matter, and for some reason, in society, and it seems that we are less valued and that is a

fact. Black lives, brown lives have been less valued in the history of this country.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POUMPOURAS: We should support, obviously, black lives matter like bar none, but you have to support police officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POUMPOURAS: It is a scary thing to do go out there, to try to do your job and be afraid someone is going to sue you. Someone is going to call you a

racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are all human beings, all lives does matter, and our law enforcement should be respected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Does Black Lives Matter have something to do with the death of a sheriff`s deputy? That question is highlighting a crisis in the trust

between the police and the community.

I am back with Evy, Areva, Mike, Omarosa, John. And, I have an audience member who is standing there, just we closed out that last segment. So,

here you go. You are up.

[21:15:07] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK. So, I think that the bigger issue is, yes, all lives do matter. Did this have to do with Black

Lives Matter, the sheriff getting shot? It might have.

PINSKY: How?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because I think that now everything is just becoming -- it is boiling. And, it is usually what happens when

people start to feel so marginalized, and then it just takes that one spark, you know. So --

PINSKY: Now, you were denying that.

MARTIN: Well, I am trying to figure out where the evidence is. As a lawyer, I got to ask, how are you making the causal connection between this

man in Texas, a march that happens in Minnesota, that perhaps there is a 30-second chant --

PINSKY: How about this --

MARTIN: And, there has been no evidence that he even heard the chant and he knows anything about Black Lives Matter.

PINSKY: Yes.

MARTIN: So, how can you make that connection? I do not understand that.

PINSKY: Hold on. Well, Omarosa and Areva, I keep seeing headlines that say homicides are up. That is the evidence. Maybe homicides are up,

because cops are backing off a little bit, because they are afraid of making the wrong move. John is that you saying --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: That is what the evidence --

PINSKY: well, what John saying is? --

CATHERWOOD: Yes. It is a mannequin creed --

CARDILLO: I agree.

CATHERWOOD: This has significant amount, you know.

PINSKY: And, so, maybe that is what the evidence is. Maybe the homicides are generally are up.

CARDILLO: Cops are backing off. Cops are backing off. Crime rates are approaching where they were in the `90s, and part of the problem is when a

professional like Areva tries to make excuses for and legitimize a person who says, "Cops are dropping and the revolution is here."

MARTIN: Why are you --

CARDILLO: Areva.

MARTIN: Why are you --

CARDILLO: Areva. Areva, be responsible.

MARTIN: Why are you mangling my words?

CARDILLO: Be responsible.

MARTIN: Why are you mangling my words?

CARDILLO: No. I am not. The woman says that.

MARTIN: I am the most responsible person you will ever meet. I am going to tell the truth, John.

CARDILLO: Areva, the woman said, "Cops are dropping. The revolution is here." And, instead of you saying, that is reprehensible. It is promoting

illegality, you made it excuses for her.

MARTIN: I did not hear her promote anything illegal.

CARDILLO: You made excuses for her.

MARTIN: I did not hear her call for the shooting of any police.

CARDILLO: Oh come on!

MARTIN: You cannot have a conversation without recognizing African- Americans are disproportionately criminalized in the system, they are treated differently.

CARDILLO: No, they are not. The data does not prove it.

MARTIN: Yes, they are, John. The DOJ report from Ferguson. The DOJ report from Ferguson. Can we talk about the DOJ report from Ferguson?

PINSKY: One at a time. One at a time. I think we are confusing two things here. Your DOJ data about the rate of incarceration.

MARTIN: No. It was not just incarceration, Dr. Drew. It was the way African-Americans were treated. They were stopped. They were frisked.

They were arrested. They were treated unfairly because of their race.

They were targeted. You cannot deny that African-Americans are targeted in the criminal justice system. They are targeted by white officers. They

are targeted by the criminal justice system.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Wait. Wait. You said white officer. We are diverse -- the law enforcement team is diverse, is not it?

MARTIN: It is diverse in some cities, Dr. Drew, but the reality is what we have been talking about over the last year or two in this country are

unarmed African-Americans shot by cops and in some instances only because of the color of their skin.

Did you see the case in Detroit where the African-American gave eye contact to a police, and he was stopped simply because he looked a white officer in

his eyes. Can we deny that? Now, the officer acknowledged it. He did not deny it. He admitted that he stopped this black guy because he gave him an

eye contact.

PINSKY: Mike, does that happen to you?

CATHERWOOD: Me?

PINSKY: When you are misbehaving, did you make -- did you stare at cops?

CATHERWOOD: When I was really like a consistent criminal, I do not remember ever anything. A lot of times, I just wake up in jail. I was

almost always wrong. I would say that also one of the things that is a big problem here, when we are having discussions or even debate of the

correlation between black lives matter and this crime, is that we live in such a strange time when it comes to how information is disseminated to the

people.

You know, in an era when there was other huge rises in civil rights and protests and things, you were really relegated to four or five media

outlets in getting you that information the next day, if you have a newspaper or if they are going to -- and, right now, if you get a 20-second

clip like Areva is saying, people saying inflammatory things that may not be at all representative of the entire day`s protests. That is going to

slam into Twitter. That is going to slam all over.

MARTIN: How do we know if this shooter is on Twitter. Black Lives Matter is primarily a social media movement.

PINSKY: Let me ask the audience.

MARTIN: Has anyone shown any connection?

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would just like to say as a former corrections officer, I have been on both sides of it.

PINSKY: What do you think? Where are we? Where are we going?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: As far as the fact that, as a black person, after I got out of corrections, I was pulled over a lot and

targeted just for the color of my skin.

MARTIN: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I look at it -- You are taught a use of force continuum, it does not have to go to lethal force in every

interaction with it.

PINSKY: Where are we going? That is what I keep asking. Where is this going? What is the end game there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Where is it going is, there is a training that law enforcement goes through, why not use it. Why are we

just automatically going and shooting? It is becoming a racial thing that black people are targeted because we look like we are menacing because of

the color of our skin, that is not even the case. A lot of us are a law abiding citizens and it is getting ridiculous.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

[21:20:11] PINSKY: It is ridiculous if you have to say that, you know what I mean? "Hey, a lot of us are law abiding citizens." It is silly

that you have to say that. It saddening.

(LAUGHING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, it is silly that I have to say that, but the thing about it is, it is something that has to be said.

PINSKY: And, Evy, I put a lot in what she is saying, right? I mean she seem -- no? --

POUMPOURAS: No, no.

PINSKY: And, I notice that John has tiptoed around here.

POUMPOURAS: You know what?

PINSKY: So, I want to give you a chance to speak up.

POUMPOURAS: Look, you know, I do believe -- I am just going to tell you flat out. I do believe African-Americans are targeted more --

PINSKY: Right.

POUMPOURAS: Because they are the ones that are mostly processed in the criminal justice system. And, so what happens is they are mostly arrested

for a crime, and it is almost like this cyclical thing, where an officer maybe is not racist, but subconsciously he is thinking, well, you know,

what? We typically arrest more blacks than whites, so, it is more likely - -

PINSKY: It is sort of a cycle.

POUMPOURAS: Yes. And, so, it is almost like this ridiculous cycle that we cannot get out of. But at the same time --

PINSKY: We need to.

POUMPOURAS: And, I just want to say is --

PINSKY: We need to get out of that.

POUMPOURAS: It hurts me and breaks my heart when I hear white officers, all white officers, who shoots someone who is of color are racist, because

sometimes there are legitimate reasons.

MARTIN: Absolutely, there are.

POUMPOURAS: It has nothing to do with color.

PINSKY: Of course.

POUMPOURAS: And, I had an incident happened to me why I pursued someone who is very young. And, I almost got into a shootout with someone, and I

did not. He happened to be 16 years old and of color, which I did not know. And, so, I think sometimes, had I made the wrong decision.

I delayed in shooting. I did not shoot. But, he had ample opportunity to hurt me. And, you know, I always think back to that. I chose his life

over mine. Had he been armed and had he had different intentions I could not be here; but I put his life ahead of mine.

But if I had done the other way around, and I had shot him to protect mine because I was in fear, would I be somebody now on the screen, white blonde

woman racist because she shot someone?

PINSKY: Yes. Yes, you would.

POUMPOURAS: That is my concern.

MARTIN: No.

PINSKY: We got it leave it guys. Omarosa, I will give you the last thought, we got to go.

MANIGAULT: We are forgetting that a year ago we were in Ferguson because of Mike Brown, because of Freddie Gray, because of all of these other

deaths. That is why black lives movement started because of these deaths of unarmed African-Americans.

PINSKY: All right. We are going to leave it. The numbers are not that impressive. I got to tell you.

MANIGAULT: Are you kidding me?

PINSKY: Give me the data? Show it up there, real quick.

MANIGAULT: Black and unarmed deaths.

PINSKY: I will tell you the exact number, here it is. 662 people shot dead by police this year, 25 black.

(CROSSTALK)

MANIGAULT: And of that number --

MARTIN: Dr. Drew, you must save knowledge.

PINSKY: 4 percent. 4 percent.

MANIGAULT: 60 percent of the unarmed men are African-Americans, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: 4 percent is what the "Washington Post" said. That is the "Washington Post."

CATHERWOOD: That is the incomprehensive collections today.

MANIGAULT: I am telling you, 60 percent of those are African-American and they were unarmed.

MARTIN: Dr. Drew, you must acknowledge the data is flawed.

PINSKY: I do not know. It is the "Washington Post." It is not the Wall Street Journal.

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: If I may. What John is referring is to the UCR, that is the FBI reports.

CARDILLO: Yes. Yes.

POUMPOURAS: The majority of arrests happened with misdemeanors and other felonies, but not -- the data is not that high. I think that is why --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right. We got to leave it.

CATHERWOOD: Wait. Wait.

PINSKY: We got to leave it. We have to leave it. I am sorry. We got to go. We will pick it up maybe tomorrow or the next day.

Donald Trump is not letting up on Jeb Bush either. He just responded to an attack. We are going to hear from him after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:27:02] DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who would you rather have negotiate with Iran, Trump or Jeb?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is a big difference Donald Trump and me. I am a proven conservative with a record, he is not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Iraq war is a disaster for the Bushes. That is why the last thing we need is another Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I mean this is not a guy who is a conservative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am not going to say Jeb is low energy, but he is pretty low --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Until recently he was for partial birth abortion. I have never met a person that actually thought that, that was a good idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He is weak on immigration. He is in favor of common core. How the hell can you vote for this guy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Things are getting down and dirt dirty in the campaign trail. Jeb Bush releasing a scathing ad slamming Trump`s record. Here just now is a

part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Who would you like representing the United States in a deal with Iran with this regime there?

Well, I think Hillary would do a good job. Hillary Clinton, I think is a terrific woman. I mean I am a little biased because I have known her for

years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yes, I know her very well. She is very talented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And, I live in New York. She lives in New York. And, I have known her and her husband for years and I really like them both a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you identify more as a democrat or a republican?

TRUMP: Well, you would be shocked if I said that in many cases I probably identified more as a democrat.

BLITZER: Then why are you a republican?

TRUMP: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Maybe he is independent. Trump responded then with this ad. Take a look at this one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN CAPTION)

JEB BUSH HONORING HILLARY CLINTON FOR HER PUBLIC SERVICE

JEB BUSH: We recognize the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service. I want to say thank you to both Secretary Clinton and

the President Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE INTERVIEWER: What does that make Hillary Clinton to the Bush family.

JEB BUSH: My sister-in-law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Evy, Areva, Mike, Omarosa and joining us in the audience, Ryan Sorba, Chairman of Young Conservatives of California. So,

Ryan, confusing past there in Mr. Trump`s heritage. What does he do with that? What do we make of that? You are a conservative. You want him to

pick a side?

RYAN SORBA, CHAIRMAN OF YOUNG CONSERVATIVES OF CALIFORNIA: You know, I am prolife 100 percent across the board. And, you know, if you look at Ronald

Reagan`s record back when he was governor at California, he signed the therapeutic abortion act, which was pro-abortion.

As he got older, as he learned more about abortion, as he matured and researched the issue, he became prolife. And, I think that Donald Trump is

more prolife than ever. Look, Donald Trump is in favor of getting planned parenthood out of the abortion industry. And, I am in favor of that a

hundred percent. And, I think Trump is right on for saying that. I think I was going to agree with him.

PINSKY: Omarosa, you know Mr. Trump, what was all that we just saw?

MANIGAULT: I am going to tell you, he is authentic. Whatever he is feeling at the moment, that is what he is giving.

PINSKY: Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on.

MARTIN: Is he hypocritical or authentic?

MANIGAULT: Let me tell you something. Every single politician you know, Areva, flip-flops. Let us be very clear. Bush flip flops. Cruz flip

flops.

MARTIN: Yes --

MANIGAULT: Kasich flip-flops. Trump flip flops, but you know what you have, somebody who is authentic and speaking and telling exactly how it is.

[21:30:00] MARTIN: But, I found the most interesting about that. Has anybody notice that both of those candidates are talking about how great

Hillary Clinton is? So, you have a two-type republican candidates talking about how they love Hillary. So, I think Hillary for president.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Well, let me get a comment from the audience. Yes, ma`am. You are ready to rock? Here we go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, an observation that I have is like with people my age or millennials, if you will, like we do not really

--

PINSKY: Like Kanye? Is not Kanye a millennial.

CATHERWOOD: He is the only 38-year-old millennial on this planet.

PINSKY: We do not really follow politics, you know. We follow little snippets that we see on BuzzFeed or that popup on our newsfeed or our

Tumblr, you know. So, when we see something with Donald Trump like kicking out a Latino man, just because he does not agree with him in an interview,

we are going to think, "Absolutely, not. We do not want Donald Trump as our president." So, that is what we are getting those are the snippets,

social media is what is helping us with this election.

CATHERWOOD: What did I tell you is the problem with the whole world right now? What was my exact word yesterday? I said that.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: You had some strong words. I did not recall.

CATHERWOOD: What I said that right now in the world we live in -

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: Attention is far more important than content.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: If something gets attention, it does not matter what actually happened. It is very important.

PINSKY: We actually were talking about the VMAs, were not we?

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: We are saying -- What was really the content that was said was nothing, but it got some attention.

CATHERWOOD: Dr. Drew was very upset because of Kanye`s ranting, and this and that. And, I said, "Are you kidding me? Everyone at MTV is high

fiving themselves," because they could care less if someone went out on stage and committed beastiality as long as people the next day go to work

at their miserable job and they go, "Oh my God! The VMA is, blah, blah, blah."

Whether they say it is the worst thing they have ever seen or the greatest show ever. They do not care. And, the same thing goes for the

presidential candidate. It is just that the fact if you ask any American right now, if you are to ask all Americans somehow, I am going to say a

large share of them could only name one name for someone who is running for president, and that is because Donald Trump gets so much more attention.

MANIGAULT: But 44 million people tuned in to the last debate. We are going to see record numbers --

PINSKY: It is good news.

MANIGAULT: This is the most interesting republican primary in the history for presidential run. And, that is a good thing, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: What is strange to me, Omarosa is that is great news for the political process, but here is somebody representing millennials is telling

us, she will not watch it. She was looking for the feeds. Go stay in the corner with the arrow going up that says, Mr. Trump -- you know what I am

saying, the Facebook feeds?

(LAUGHING)

MARTIN: She is honest. She is honest.

MANIGAULT: Well she reminds that is how University -- They are all very engaged in the presidential policy. She is not indicative of all

millennials. There are people who are engaged.

PINSKY: I do think she is rotted.

MARTIN: But, I think she is telling the right story that Trump is getting all the media attention, so that is the name they are hearing. If you hear

he kicked someone out, you might not like him. If you hear something he says in 30 seconds that you like, then you are going to check the box and

that is why phone numbers showed up.

PINSKY: Let me show you the interview Trump did with CNN`s Don Lemon, which will air tonight. He defended this whole flip-flopping. He defended

his past as a democrat. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He mentions the fact that I was at one point a democrat. Well, in New York City, everybody was a democrat, practically. If you run for city

council, if you run for political office, whoever wins the democratic primary, is automatically -- there is almost no election, because the

republicans hardly exist in New York City. Well, that is where I was.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Were you a democrat at that point when you said that?

TRUMP: Well, at one point I was -- at one point I was a democrat, and for a period of time, and over the years, as Ronald Reagan changed, I also

changed, I became much more conservative and also became a republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Ryan, was that just a way to do business. I am a democrat, I can do business with you guys? Is that a sort of --

SORBA: Yes. You know, I think that -- look, as he said, almost everybody in New York was a democrat -- and they have to be a democrat.

MARTIN: That is wrong -- that is a softball, come on.

SORBA: But, I do not think he was a strong democrat. I think he just was kind of like somebody like what we would call a foreclosed democrat.

Somebody who just thought this is where I am. This is who I hang out with. But, as he got older and as he learned like Reagan, he turned into a

republican. And that is what we see with a lot of people.

PINSKY: OK. I am running out of time.

SORBA: Serious question, what is wrong with that? Like, there is nothing wrong --

CATHERWOOD: I mean why are we handcuffs to our political affiliation at any given point?

PINSKY: I am concerned about the bureaucracy of our political party? Yes, sir.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, my concern is, kind of off on a tangent, but does anyone get concerned about his anger issues?

(LAUGHING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

Like he is in control of the United States of America, and his ability to not control himself is the problem.

PINSKY: I am concerned about the psychological profile of a lot of our politicians, that is what I tell you. But, we will continue this

conversation going.

Later on, we know more about where Josh Duggar is allegedly getting treatment for his sex addiction. We are back after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

[21:34: 41] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Oh, I love Jeb. You notice Jeb never uses his last name? Why? Because he is ashamed of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love the tea party. I love the tea party. These are great people. I love China. I love the people of China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Negotiating with china, when these people walk in the room, they do not say, "Oh, hello how is the weather? " They say, "We want deal." I

love Saudi Arabia. The people are very nice to me. They buy my apartments you would not believe it. I love Mexican people. I have such a great

relationship to Mexican. I hire thousands, people -- the rich Mexicans are great people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am going to get the greatest negotiators, and we are going to make great trades. We are going to make a lot of money. We are going to

be great. Everyone is going to love us. OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I do not know about you guys, but I cannot wait for "Saturday Night Live" to come back on. This guys is bold, bold!

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

Donald Trump and Jeb Bush ramp up the rhetoric. Both releasing attack ads. I am back with Evy, Areva, Mike, Omarosa, Ryan in the audience. Ryan,

could these -- could all these rhetoric backfired these guys, aside from it being good comedy.

SORBA: I do not think it could backfire on Donald Trump, but I think it could backfire for other republicans.

PINSKY: How?

SORBA: Because they do not have this bombastic attitude like Donald Trump has. People in America, they already know Trump. They have known Donald

Trump for years. They know he is not a racist. They know that he is --

(LAUGHING)

[21:40:00] SORBA: Name something that is racist that Donald Trump has said. Name something racist that Donald Trump has said. He said illegal

aliens are criminals. And, according to federal statistic, they commit murder at a higher rate than other Americans do. And, so, you know, Donald

Trump is absolutely not a Racist?

(LAUGHING)

MARTIN: Funny.

PINSKY: Omarosa, you want to defend that?

MANIGAULT: First of all, Ryan, you do not have to defend him, because he defends himself very well.

SORBA: Right.

MANIGAULT: I think that he is appealing to people who are tired of these career politicians. He is tired of people who have been bought and sold by

the establishment, and that is why Donald Trump --

MARTIN: Except he is buyable.

(LAUGHING)

MANIGAULT: No. No. No. You do not present -- you want to present the people who have played you year after year after year and take advantage of

--

MARTIN: No. We do not resent Trump because he is wealthy. But you are saying he is something different than the people who have bought the

electoral process, but yet he is using --

MANIGAULT: Because he can pay for himself.

MARTIN: He is using his billions in the same way that we have been critical of other politicians. And, let us face it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hey, whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

MARTIN: All the rules go out the window for the Trump supporters.

SORBA: He is honest, though. He is being honest about it.

MARTIN: Even so much so that when Trump says he loves Hillary Clinton, the Trump supporter says, "Oh, that is just Donald being Donald."

(CROSSTALK)

MANIGAULT: So, what is wrong with that Areva?

SORBA: Yes.

MARTIN: So, there are no rules with the Trump supporters.

MANIGAULT: There are no rules.

MARTIN: They just let Donald just --

MANIGAULT: You are the only one who established --

MARTIN: -- you know, he has diarrhea of the mouth and Trump supporters --

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Hold on, one at a time. I am curious about something. How many people out here are tired of having to watch what they say? They are sort

of tired of the language police? No, I am just curious. See, not that many people are tired of that, and I think --

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: And, I think --

MANIGAULT: You have to say political correctness.

PINSKY: How many people are afraid of having to be politically correct or tired of having to watch to be politically correct all the time as they

say.

MANIGAULT: The numbers are --

PINSKY: It is about half. About half -- And, of the same -- of you people that are tired of that, do you relate to what Donald Trump does and says?

So, you like the -- refreshing. Step up here and tell me something. Because that is what I am interested in.

MARTIN: Stump for Trump sister.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Get her a microphone. Yes. But you like the -- you are tired of being PC. You like about he just speaks his mind even when he steps his

stuff --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I love the way he speaks his mind.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I like that he is not sugar coating it, and putting on kid gloves and he is not blowing smoke like every other

politician.

PINSKY: You see, that -- I think that is where he gains a lot of traction. Thank you for that. Evy, you understand what they are saying, right?

POUMPOURAS: Yes. I am still reeling. Did he just say before in that clip, "I like rich Mexicans?"

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: He did.

SORBA: He said, "I like Mexicans."

POUMPOURAS: I had a moment. I am not sure about that comment. But, I do think, I think -- you know, just having worked in D.C., I think there is

this thing where you do not -- you cannot -- I think society, we cannot trust our politicians. We feel like, is this really the person I am

dealing with, are you somebody after the camera turns off.

And, I think people just want directness. They want trust. But, I also feel that a lot of politicians, when they run for office they say, "I am

going to do this. I am going to do that." Then they get to D.C., they get to that position, and they see that, it is not that easy. I mean, it is a

system in there.

PINSKY: Yes.

POUMPOURAS: One person cannot come in there. I am just saying -- one person cannot come in there and change everything.

PINSKY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, but Donald is literally seems like he lost his mind. I mean there is a video. There is a video where he -- I

mean, we are talking about the flip-flopping back and forth. He flip- flopped back and forth between his religion whether he is a Baptist or a catholic or he is a Christian like I mean --

MANIGAULT: He has never said he was Baptist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just thought --

MANIGAULT: Let us not go too far.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Literally, he really sounds like he is deranged half the time. I, personally, being an American, do not feel I

have the confidence in him to go across international waters and make sure our safety is the number one concern for him.

PINSKY: Hold that that thought. Last thought, Ryan, that is the thing that people keep bringing up, the international situation, what do you say

to that?

SORBA: Listen. Donald Trump has an excellent relationship with China.

(LAUGHING)

MARTIN: It is a new Saturday Night Live.

SORBA: Numerous times, he has excellent business relationships around the world. He has been around for a long time. People know him. It is going

to be an Arnold Schwarzenegger effect for people who are excited to see him, because he has a big name and he is famous. But, He is not going to

wimp out like Arnold Schwarzenegger did.

PINSKY: Yes.

SORBA: And, he is going to be a good president. And, I think Donald Trump is going to be fine, and I think that --

PINSKY: We are laughing tonight, but do not -- this is a very beginning of a long process. And I like the fact that he stirred it up, and we are all

into it. He is making us talk and think, and we will all be watching those republican convention -- republican --

CATHERWOOD: Debates.

PINSKY: -- debates, will we not? All right. Thank you guys.

Next up, is Josh Duggar really getting treatment for sex addiction. I will tell you what I think and I will tell you what we have learned. Back after

this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

[21:44:42] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Time now for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, Instagram feeds. Evy, go right ahead.

POUMPOURAS: OK. So, this is special. I have a dash cam video of a police chase that has gone viral. But it is not your typical bad guy with the

stolen car scenario, because the driver is an 8-year-old boy.

PINSKY: What? What? What?

POUMPOURAS: Yes. It happened in Minnesota. The boy reportedly travelled at least 15 miles before a state trooper caught up with him.

PINSKY: 50? 50?

POUMPOURAS: 15. 1-5. Part of the New York accident.

PINSKY: And, then backed into the cop.

POUMPOURAS: Yes. He drove. He pulled into the drive way, and reverse to the cop. And, when he comes out, he comes out in his pajamas.

MARTIN: What?

POUMPOURAS: And, then, wait, and then his 5-year-old foster sister comes out. And, then his 3-year-old little brother climbs out.

PINSKY: Does he have a super soaker on his back too?

(LAUGHING)

POUMPOURAS: It looks like he packed all his stuff.

PINSKY: Are they running away from home?

POUMPOURAS: Well, no. I mean they did an investigation. Social services went there. They did not find anything wrong. So, they returned the

children back to their home. I do not know about that one, but --

PINSKY: Is this a burgeoning sociopath or --

(LAUGHING)

[21:50:00] POUMPOURAS: Maybe a race car driver in the making?

PINSKY: Mike, what do you think?

CATHERWOOD: I think he wanted to use his little brother and little sister to maybe go hook up with some 8-year-old little girls?

POUMPOURAS: Oh my gosh.

PINSKY: Areva, what do you got?

MARTIN: OK. I have a story that is appearing in news feeds everywhere. It is being called, "The Bogus Baby Bump." This 16-year-old Michigan girl

told everyone she was pregnant with triplets, but it was a lie.

The teen used a website called, get this, fakebaby.com to order a sonogram of these triplets. She even named the babies, Dr. Drew, Ivan, Alice and

Isabella. Now, her family gave her a big baby shower. A church donated items. She even joined a Facebook page for moms of triplets.

This girl went all out. When someone on his Facebook group contacted her family saying that the teen`s sonogram, take a look, was fake. The family

was suspicious because her pregnancy, get this, had spilled over into its tenth month.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: She was enjoying.

MARTIN: Do not fake a pregnancy teenagers. Please, do not do it.

PINSKY: And, I am sure, having had triplets, it is no laughing matter. Let us go ahead, Mike.

MARTIN: A fakebaby.com.

CATHERWOOD: Is there fakeabortion.com?

POUMPOURAS: Oh my gosh.

CATHERWOOD: A reasonable question. It is time for me to talk about the greatest human being on earth. This man, Roberto Cabrera Escovel, down

there --

PINSKY: You have his name memorized.

CATHERWOOD: I do. I love this man. He is filing for disability and unsuccessfully filing for disability.

PINSKY: In Mexico?

CATHERWOOD: Because he has a 19 inch penis, with 10 inches of circumference. So, it is not just long, ladies.

MARTIN: Does he have a limp?

CATHERWOOD: Let me give you -- that is 19 inches. Can you imagine? He says he cannot walk. He has to walk like an elephant according to him.

Those are his words. How is he supposed to work, he cannot walk.

PINSKY: Well, he said, he cannot work -- I was the one that showed you this story --

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: I am sorry to tell you.

CATHERWOOD: I love him so much.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Yes, I know you would. He has never had a relationship with a woman. He scared a few away.

CATHERWOOD: He says, women are literally scared of him. And, I can understand why. Can you imagine that, Areva?

MARTIN: No, I cannot. No, we cannot.

(LAUGHING)

CATHERWOOD: My name is Roberto. I would like to know if you would like to go out to dinner, possibly on Friday. I am free?

PINSKY: Talk to the audience.

CATHERWOOD: Any of you ladies --

PINSKY: Roda, get in here. Roda.

CATHERWOOD: Roda. Roda, come here. Ah, yes. We will walk amongst the field of -- I take you to dinner to meet my grandma.

PINSKY: We got to go. And, now you go out with Roda and have a good time.

Next, I got something to say about Josh Duggar`s sex addiction, his kinds of treatments, and we will -- we will back after this.

(LAUGHING)

(AUDIENCE APPLADUING)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

[21:53:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

[21:57:10] PINSKY: We are learning more about the facility where Josh Duggar is allegedly being treated for sex addiction. You are going to love

this, Mike. Reformers unanimous. Yes. It is a so-called faith based treatment center in Illinois.

A spokesman said our curriculum is the bible. All right, Radar online reports that a former counselor at this same center is serving a 12-year

prison sentence for having had sex with an under-aged girl. Councilor, who is also a pastor has reportedly told the girl, his victim, "God approves."

So, whatever. I mean OK. So, there is somebody that misbehaved at that facility. I am not going to hold the entire facility accountable for one

guy`s bad behavior. But I am going to hold them accountable for treating a guy who really has serious, serious problems.

There is a website, Centerforhealthysex.com, if you want to learn about real sex addiction treatment. It is intensive. It is time-consuming and

requires skilled professionals. Bible, good adjunct. Good on you. I have no problem with the bible.

It is not a treatment manual. The bible is not a treatment manual for psychiatrically ill-patients. This young kid, Josh Duggar as a young

adolescent sexually abused his sisters, then he allowed his sisters to defend him. Then he is cheating on his wife and the sisters are still

defending him. And, Areva, the brother-in-law I guess has enough of him.

MARTIN: The brother-in-law wants his sister to get those kids and get out of there. He is so fed up with Josh and all of us misbehaving, his

criminal conduct, hist sexual addictions. The brother is like, get my sister and my nieces and nephews out of the house.

PINSKY: I understand why he would feel that way, but that fact is that most of the partners of sex addicts end up staying with them. The majority

do, because the co -- the person that selects the sex addict to be with need some treatment too and they need to get well.

MARTIN: There are kids involved. That is fine.

PINSKY: Right. You want to sustain the marriage. I get that. That is to save the family.

CATHERWOOD: And, also, in defense of this young lady. Sex addiction in the eyes of many is much like eating disorders. It is different than drug

addiction and alcoholism, where you do not need drugs and alcohol to live.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: Very healthy people have sex and they eat food. So, you see how someone can either exaggerate that or take it to a dangerous level, but

--

PINSKY: And, to be fair, sex addiction is under assault as a pathology, but it is a comfort. So, we have an understanding how people like this

are, he may have been sexually abused himself as a child. That is a common sort of a heritage and there were 19 kids.

MARTIN: And, we know there was a lot of denial about his acts with respect to his sisters and not treating that pathology.

CATHERWOOD: The grosses part about this all is that he watch his sisters defend him.

PINSKY: That is the part I cannot stand. Evy, last comment.

POUMPOURAS: Yes, she did not step up and take responsibility. And, I am worried about the kids. You know, what? This is what we know. What do

not we know?

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Good point. A reminder, everybody. We are on SnapChat. You can join us there at DrDrewHLN. DVR this program and you can watch us anytime.

Audience, great job today. Panel, excellent. Thank you, all. We will see you next time.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

END