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Republicans Trying to Out-Trump Trump on Immigration; Scott Walker Says Building Wall Not Out of the Question; Trumps Says Bush Soft on Crime; Experts: More Testing Need to Confirm Piece from MH370; Thousands of Migrants Stranded in Hungary, E.U. Still Has No Plan; Dick Cheney Weighs In on Clinton E-mail Server. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired August 31, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:06] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump takes credit for putting illegal immigration on the agenda in the presidential race. And now some of his rivals may be taking a page from Trump's playbook. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie says if we can track packages, if the U.S. can track packages, the U.S. should be able to keep track of people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We let people come into this country with visas and the minute they come in we lose track of them. We can't -- so here's what I'm going to do as president. I'm going ask Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx, come work for the government for three months.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: I want to bring in Alex Castellanos, the founder of newrepublican.org, and chairman of Purple Strategies; and Donna Brazile, Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator.

So you have, Donna, Chris Christie saying he wasn't comparing people to packages, but he's trying to steal some of Donald Trump's thunder, perhaps, as he does lag in the polls, Chris Christie does, by focusing on immigration. Is that the right read?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR; I think what's happening in the Republican Party right now many of these candidates don't know how to catch the wind so they have following what I call Tropical Storm Donald Trump to see if they can get some ability to connect with voters. I think it's the wrong way to handle this immigration issue. You have two presidential candidates who helped write a bill with the Gang of Eight in the Senate, Senator Graham and Senator Rubio. That's the bipartisan plan that I think is realistic and feasible and I think Republicans should embrace.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR & FOUNDER, NEWREPUBLICAN.ORG & CHAIRMAN, PURPLE STRATEGIES: I think right now it's Donald Trump's world and all the other candidates are just barely existing in it. The thing about Trump is he looks big and he's fun when he's talking about this stuff. When Chris Christie does that, he looks small and mean and petty. So, no, I think Donna is right, this is not something that works for them, trying to out-Trump Trump.

KEILAR: So maybe playing into the hands of Hillary Clinton, who said a couple of months ago that Republicans are on -- what did she call it -- a spectrum of hostility towards immigrants. This is something she wants to happen, isn't it?

CASTELLANOS: If you're Hillary Clinton, anything that takes attention away from Hillary Clinton is a good thing. She has her own problems right now. She's created such a big vacuum in the Democratic Party that Bernie Sanders can't fill it. Now somebody else will get in this race, I think, on the Democratic side.

BRAZILE: Well, I don't know if anybody else will get into the race, I do know Joe Biden is considering it. He said he would, we'll know sometime within the next two to three weeks but Hillary Clinton is right. Republicans are going so far to the right that the mainstream in this country, whether Democrats, Republicans 0, or independents, they won't buy Donald Trump's vision of building a so-called wall. It's not feasible, it's expensive. And what we should focus on is common sense immigration reform most Americans believe would get us back to where we need to making sure our borders are secure but those who are in this country, yes, un-documented. We have a pathway to citizenship.

KEILAR: The issue of the wall isn't just Donald Trump's. He's taken flak for proposing to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico and make Mexico pay for it. But you have Scott Walker who is saying the idea of building the wall along the Canadian border isn't out of the question. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT WALKER, (R), WISCONSIN GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People have asked us about that in New Hampshire. They've raised legitimate concerns, including law enforcement folks that brought that to up me at one of our town hall meetings about a week and a half ago. So that's a legitimate issue for us to look at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A legitimate issue to look at?

(LAUGHTER)

What do you think of that, Alex?

CASTELLANOS: Well, I wasn't aware of the invasion of illegal alien beaver pelts --

(LAUGHTER)

-- that are threatening this country and taking jobs away from American beavers. It's a real crisis. I think that's nuts. Again, they're trying to out-Trump Trump, move to the right, but instead of getting bigger it makes them look smaller and tactical. And Scott Walker has had a couple instances like this on immigration, that he's going to deport native-born citizens, then he had to clarify that. Now this. Is you're looking more like tactical politician than a big presidential leader when you do these things.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: Absolutely. He's had three different positions on birth right citizenship over the last seven days. Now he's going to put forward a position that will hurt the dairy farmers in Wisconsin. I was at the Iowa State Fair, Minnesota State Fair. Wisconsin cheese is still one of the finest in the country. I have to say that.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You have, for instance, Senator Leahy, of Vermont, who said this is scoring points. Of course. He's on the opposite side of the aisle from Scott Walker but he's making a point that the commerce is very important and this is silliness.

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: There's a better way to deal with this, doesn't get smaller than Trump, get bigger. Remind Mr. Trump you're living in the 21st century and that a wall is a nice thing if you live 3,000 years ago, now you not only need a wall, you need technology, drones, a north American energy alliance with Mexico that helps resuscitate their economy so they won't want to send people here. Get bigger, not smaller.

[13:35:00] KEILAR: Talking of taking on Trump, let's listen to what really has been transpiring between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. They traded jabs over immigration again today. Trump posted an Instagram message accusing Bush of being soft on undocumented immigrants who commit crimes. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: It's not a felony. It's a -- it's an act of love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Well, there you go. The Bush campaign fired back, and I will say hastily, because this is a statement that I noticed lacks some commas and has an extra word, but here's what it says, "Jeb Bush has a record of tracking down on violent criminals as governor of Florida while Donald Trump has, up until it was convenient, supported liberal, soft-on-crime politicians. His immigration plan is not conservative, would violate the Constitution and cost hundreds of billions of dollars, which he will attempt to pay for with massive tax hikes."

What do you think of that strategy, Alex?

CASTELLANOS: I think Donald Trump is smart tactically and politically. He has good instincts. Especially if you are unconstrained by reality like Donald Trump and you can feel free to say anything because you know you won't be judged on it. You're seen as half entertainment and half presidential candidate. But these are alpha dog battles. You want your next president to be a strong guy and Republicans need to see a Jeb Bush or Scott Walker. Anybody who gets hit by Donald Trump, they need to see them stand up and fight back and set the record straight.

BRAZILE: This is amazing. I never thought I could use my Instagram to come up with a quick ad. Alex, you didn't teach me that.

(LAUGHTER)

BRAZILE: But the fact is --

CASTELLANOS: Way before my time.

BRAZILE: -- Jeb Bush talking about sinking in the polls. Jeb Bush is having a terrible summer. And I think the fact that he is willing to take on Donald Trump on these issues, that may help him in the long term, whether or not he survives the rest of the summer.

CASTELLANOS: This may be Trump summer, but we vote in the winter.

KEILAR: That's right. We are five months out from the Iowa caucuses. We will see.

Alex, Donna --

BRAZILE: Thank you.

KEILAR: -- thank you so much.

For the latest in politics and all the presidential contenders, head over to CNNpolitics.com.

Still ahead, crisis on the borders of Europe. The flood of migrants keeps on growing. Why E.U. leaders can't agree on a plan, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:02] KEILAR: Just last month, what was believed to be a part of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 was washed ashore. Experts are now saying they can't confirm that debris found was from MH370. Investigators know the piece is from a Boeing 777, but more testing is needed to say with certainty it's from MH370.

And I'm joined now by CNN's Martin Savidge. He covered the plane's disappearance. And Mary Schiavo, she is a CNN aviation analyst, a former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation.

So, Martin, you sort of think of the deducing here, right? There's only one Boeing 777 missing anywhere in the world, why can't officials just say this has to be the piece?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, logically, the French authorities say it does make sense. That this is a piece of MH370 because of the things you brought up. But the investigation at least from the French perspective requires more than just logically deducting that. You have to produce some kind of proof and you need some kind of documentation, especially when it's the fate of those who may have been on board and the families waiting for some specific word.

As yet, according to sources we have talked to, despite a month of intensive investigation, the French haven't been able to do that. They did not find inside the flaperon what was expected, which was a kind of serial number that would have been able to be tracked by a Boeing and identified with MH370. It either fell off, it was either ripped off, or somehow it's not there. Then they began looking deeper inside the flaperon and what they were finding were other pieces that were manufactured by a subcontractor if space. That had markings. They went to that subcontractor, dug through their records and said they were unable through their records to determine those parts belong directly to MH370.

That was a huge blow because without the serial number and secondary numbers coming through they're running out of options one is to analyze paint and according to one family member, French authorities have told him they did a paint analysis, it was inconclusive. Right now, it appears the French, despite their best efforts, haven't been able to come up with this kind of tangible proof.

KEILAR: So frustrating for those families, Martin.

Mary, I wonder what you think about the investigation following the discovery of the flaperon. You've had many conflicting reports initially when the plane disappeared, but even when we've heard claims from different governments about this debris. What do you think of how this investigation has been handled?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: I think this is a classic case it's too many cooks in stew. For the French BEA to be reticent and take their time and to be -- frankly, when the rest of the world, especially Boeing saying it's the flaperon, it has to be from MH370 because no other 777s are missing. Under NTSB standards, under our investigation standards, which is a civil investigation, that would be enough for us to conclude this is most likely 370. But the French BEA -- and I've worked three previous case, the Concorde crash, the West Caribbean 708 and air transport and I worked on some matters and the BEA took a long time and they will repeat again and again that they do a criminal investigation not civil. So the French are in, and they have a right to be because it was found on Reunion, but there needs to be a powerful central figure directing a first-class investigation. We just haven't seen it yet.

[13:45:49] KEILAR: Do you think, Mary, there will be other debris that washes ashore?

SCHIAVO: I certainly hope so because, while I believe Boeing -- and with our NTSB, that's what they do. They look to the manufacturer to tell them is this or is this not the flaperon from 777. I'm also intrigued by the Marine life growth. There are some reports that perhaps the Marine life was from a different area. No one has concluded that but that would help as well to know if it's in the right area of the Indian Ocean where they are searching because anything, even the smallest shred of evidence or information is vitally important to these families. They hang on every word.

KEILAR: That's a really interesting point, Mary.

Thanks so much. Mary Schiavo with us.

Martin Savidge with us from Paris. Thank you.

The female suspect being sought in connection with the Bangkok bombing had left Thailand two months ago according to her mother. Over the weekend, police arrested a man in connection with the bombing but they said he isn't the main suspect. He is apparently denying any involvement, but authorities also said they found bomb-making equipment in his apartment when police moved in to capture him.

For nearly 2,000 years, the Temple of Baal has been considered the center of religious life in the Syrian city of Palmyra. ISIS militants are trying to destroy what's left of it. The Syrian antiquities chief say there was an exPLOsion inside the walls of the temple Sunday. Officials working to confirm the extent of the damage. But witnesses say the temples iconic columns are still standing. Last week, ISIS published photos of the destruction of another ancient temple in Palmyra.

ISIS' reign of terror is forcing millions of refugees from Syria and Iraq to flee for their lives. They're not the only ones. People from the Middle East and Africa are trying to escape their situations. This year alone, nearly 2500 people, many of them kids, have died trying to make the journey to your honor. Case in point, nearly 200 drowned and dozens are missing off the coast of Libya after two boats capsized last week, the same day Austrian officials discovered an abandoned truck with the bodies of 71 migrants. Several people are being held in connection with the deaths, but for those who make it to Hungary, there's another horrible obstacle. Tens of thousands are stranded at the gateway into Europe.

CNN international correspondent, Atika Shubert, joining us now from Berlin.

Atika, you have so many people who are stranded there in Hungary. What's the holdup?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the holdup is basically that it's illegally for so many of these refugees and migrants to cross over the borders to the country they want to get to so they're in Hungary. They need to get through Austria and their destination is Germany. Now Germany has said we will accept these refugees, we will speed up their registration. And they don't have to register in the first country in Europe they get to which was the rule before.

The problem is Germany is the only one that has said this. So Austria still has to follow its old rule. So does Hungary. And that's what the hold ump is. What we see now is trains completely packed, hundreds of people on board who are trying to get to Germany. But Hungarian and Austrian officials are overwhelmed, checking each of their I.D.s and registrations. They're hope that can the next few hours and days that will be able to be straightened out and in Germany they'll accept more and more of these refugees.

KEILAR: What's the concern in Austria, Atika? Why not expedite the process like Germany would like to see?

SHUBERT: The problem here is that there is basically an E.U. rule called the Dublin Protocol and it says that any refugee or migrant seeking asylum must register in the first country they step foot in. For many, that's Greece. For some it's Hungary. But rarely is it Germany or Sweden where so many of them are trying to get to. That means they have to cross borders illegally. And what we find is that refugees are taking incredible risks to get there. For example, you mentioned that van filled with refugees. 71 people died of asphyxiation inside just crossing over into Austria. They are saying we don't want people smuggled across the border, and dying like this. The problem is it's going to require more than one state or two states to agree to open up for refugees. It really requires all of the E.U. to agree to one policy. That's going to be difficult to do -- Brianna?

[13:50:28] KEILAR: How are Germans reacting to the migrants, since Germany seems to have more of an open door here?

SHUBERT: It's a mixed reaction. The fact is, we've seen over the weekend football crowds holding up signs saying, "Refugees, welcome." So there is certainly this feeling that Germany is taking more refugees and should take more refugees. An estimated 800,000, four times as many as they have taken in previous years and more than any other country in the E.U. There is, however, a small minority that is anti-migration. That has come out sometimes in violent protests. So there are tensions here and, of course, down the line, the big question, how is the country going to manage to pay for all of this -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Always a big question.

Atika Shubert, in Berlin, thank you.

Still to come, another batch of Hillary Clinton's e-mails will be released today, thousands of them. We'll look at what's at stake. We'll hear what former Vice President Dick Cheney has to say about Clinton's private server.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:51] KEILAR: "I think she should have known better" -- that's what former Vice President Dick Cheney has said about Hillary Clinton's decision to use a private e-mail server as secretary of state. In an interview with CNN to publicize his new book, "Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America," co-written with his daughter, Liz, Cheney weighed in on the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I found it surprising that somebody as high ranking as secretary of state who is dealing with classified and sensitive information all the time would think it's OK to have a private server in your home where you put information and so forth, where you send e-mails.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: So how would you describe her handling her e-mails this way, in a word?

CHENEY: I think it was sloppy and unprofessional.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: You can see the full interview with the former vice president and his daughter, Liz Cheney, a former State Department official in the Bush administration, tomorrow night on "Anderson Cooper 360."

The controversy over Hillary Clinton's e-mails could get even bigger today because, later today, they will publicly release the largest batch of her messages so far.

Let's bring in Elise Labott. She's our global affairs correspondent.

You have, Elise, more than 6,000 or so pages that are set to be released. Anything that we can expect? Do you know?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This is 10 percent of the e-mails, Brianna. A lot more because there's been a backlog and the State Department is trying to clear that up.

We understand the e-mails are from 2009 and 2010. We're still in the administration getting up to speed with the appointees. Remember, there was a lot of back and forth between the Clinton folks and the White House about who to nominate. Clinton wanted a lot of power over that. You also have the start of the Iran nuclear talks, the underwear bomber and Haiti earthquake, and then at the end of 2010, WikiLeaks. We don't know how much of that period will be covered in that e-mail. Certainly we're going to be looking for that. We're going to be looking for kind of interesting tidbits, and also how much of the e-mails are redacted. There's been talk about sensitive and even classified information that might have been in those e-mails. And the State Department and intelligent agencies have been working hard to make sure nothing gets out there.

KEILAR: Will we find out why these e-mails were classified, either specifically, or I guess generally? We don't find out exactly what's in them so you don't know. But they give us a clue as to why they have been classified, right?

LABOTT: There's a code. This is from the Freedom of Information Act. There was a FOIA request for these documents. They've been released. If there's a redaction, secret information or sensitive information that can't be released, there could be a code. So it could be classified, it could be privileged information between government agencies. We'll have a general idea but we still don't know what is in those e-mails.

KEILAR: Some of Hillary Clinton's critics -- in fact, Donald Trump has run rampant with this. He said, oh, this is criminal. Some critics have said this very well might be criminal and they're likening Hillary Clinton to David Petraeus, how he shared classified information with his then mistress. But what's interesting is the former prosecutor, who is the guy against David Petraeus in that case, is actually taking issue in an op-ed in "USA Today." She's taking issue with this op-ed. What did we learn?

LABOTT: We're talking about Ann Tompkins, the former U.S. attorney for Western District of Columbia. She oversaw the General Petraeus prosecution. He pled guilty to a misdemeanor of leaking classified documents. She said, based on the facts, the comparison has no merit. Let me read a little bit. "The key issue that distinguishes Secretary Clinton's e-mail retention practices from Petraeus' sharing of classified information is that Petraeus knowingly engaged in unlawful conduct, and that was the basis of his criminal liability."

And if you remember, he was taking a lot of classified information, putting it in journals, shared that knowingly with Paula Broadwell, and that's why he was found guilty of charges. People I've spoke to say, look, Secretary Clinton practiced bad habits, but so far they haven't seen any criminal actions.

KEILAR: It's a significant distinction.

Elise Labott, thanks so much.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.