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Jeb Bush and Donald Trump Hold Dueling Town Halls; Interview with Donald Trump; Donald Trump discusses Illegal Immigration; Egyptian Security Building Attacked by Bomber; Interview with Jon Huntsman. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 20, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing constant is Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He has a message for the Pope.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd say ISIS wants to get you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: North and South Korea exchanging fire over their heavily fortified border.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: South Korea's military is on high alert. Tensions have been very high here.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS claiming responsibility for attacking a security building in Cairo with a car bomb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This attack in the heart of the capital, the worst really, 29 injured, six of those said to be police, knocking windows out around for blocks.

(END VIDETAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: We are all perfectly on our marks right now. This is exactly how we're supposed to go. Just so you know. Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, August 20th, 8:00 in the east. And let's start with the town hall throw-down. Donald Trump, Jeb Bush in competing events, delivering their message, taking shots at each other.

CAMEROTA: Trump saying that Bush is, quote, "unelectable" while Bush calls Trump's words on immigration "vitriolic." But Trump stands by his controversial plans for tacking illegal immigration in this one- on-one sit-down with Chris that's ahead. But first let's go to CNN's Sara Murray live in New Hampshire. So tell us about these interesting dueling town halls, Sara.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Yes, last night was a big night here in New Hampshire, town hall's not very far apart. And part of the reason they were so fiery is because Jeb Bush took a new strategy last night. He was much more aggressive in his attacks on Donald Trump. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Step aside Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather.

TRUMP: Thank you, thank you.

JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Thank you. Thanks.

MURRAY: Donald Trump and Jeb Bush are taking over the ring. In a night of dueling town hall in the New Hampshire just 15 miles apart and within an hour of each other, both Republican presidential candidates threw jabs.

TRUMP: I don't see how he's electable. Jeb Bush is a low energy person. For him to get things done is hard. He's very low energy.

BUSH: Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

MURRAY: Though Bush set the date for his town hall first, his crowd of about 200 got walloped by Trump's 1,200.

TRUMP: We have a lot of people outside, hundreds and hundreds of people standing outside.

MURRAY: Some even spilling into an overflow room to see the candidate in his first official town hall.

TRUMP: You know what's happening to Jeb's crowd right as you know right down the street? They're sleeping. He was supposed to do well in New Hampshire. He's going down like a rock.

MURRAY: Though he's dubbed himself the joyful tortoise, it seems Wednesday was the night Bush came out of his shell, throwing this punch at Trump's immigration policy.

BUSH: Hundreds of billions of dollars of costs to implement his plan is not a conservative plan.

MURRAY: A blow the GOP frontrunner blocked, telling reporters --

TRUMP: The only thing constant is Trump. All of them change there at the bottom. They're going up and down like yo-yos. I'm not going anywhere, folks. I'm not doing this for my health. I'm doing this to make America great again.

MURRAY: Florida's former governor doesn't think that's enough to win the fight.

BUSH: People want someone sitting behind a big desk that they know their compass points north, they have the integrity to act on what they say they'll do, and they have the leadership skills to make it so. That's it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Today Jeb Bush continues barnstorming in New Hampshire. He has two additional stops here today. Meanwhile Donald Trump is looking ahead to Friday. He's holding a pep rally in Alabama. A campaign staffer told me the RSVPs just keep coming in. Now they are up to 35,000 RSVPs. They had to find a new venue. Now the event will be held in a football stadium. Back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: And you'll be there, because you're everywhere. You were on last night. You're here this morning and you look like you slept for 15 hours. I don't get it. Sara, thank you very much.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: So Donald Trump standing firm on illegal immigration, also taking it to the Pope. Yes. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Immigration, your people in the GOP worry that you're going to alienate, excuse the pun, the Hispanic population.

TRUMP: I have to do the right thing.

CUOMO: You have 20 million voters, pulling the birthright exception, that may be constitutionally dubious. You shouldn't be taking such an extreme position. What do you say?

TRUMP: I have to do the right thing. It's a time, you know, this country is so politically correct. Nobody wants to take a stance on anything. I was the one that brought it up and I took a lot of heat. You gave it to me, too. You were one of the leaders that first week and week and a half after I made the announcements. And a lot of people, including yourselves, they were not reading it the way I said it. And that is now fact, and I've been actually complemented by some of the people because I brought up the whole thing of illegal immigration. I'll bet you wouldn't even be asking this question right now had I not put that in my opening statement as very important.

[08:05:07] CUOMO: You definitely changed nature of the dialogue, I'll give you that. And I certainly would never take your words out of context.

TRUMP: Many people did.

Look, at some point we have to be honest with ourselves. Now they like to use the word "undocumented" because it's more political. I don't use that word. They're illegal immigrants. They came over illegally. Some are wonderful people and they've been here for a while. They've got to go out.

CUOMO: But how do you do it in a practical way?

TRUMP: At some point we're going to try to get them back, the good ones. We have a lot of good ones here. At the same time --

CUOMO: You say you're going to get rid of whole families but then you want them back.

TRUMP: They're illegal. We have a country. We have to have a border, we have to have a wall. Mexico will pay for the wall. I get a kick out of these guys that never negotiated, they can't negotiate --

CUOMO: You say they're going to pay for a $400 billion wall and we give them like $280 billion a year. Why would they say yes?

TRUMP: Because they make a fortune from us. Our companies are moving into Mexico more than almost any other place right now. We're losing our industry. We're losing our business to Mexico. Their leaders are smart as hell. I mean, 300,000, I looked in your shows, 300,000 births this year illegals in our country. That means we picked up 300,000 people that are going to get Social Security. You have people on the border, and in one day they walk over, have a baby, and now all of a sudden we're supposed to pay the baby.

CUOMO: So citizenship for those babies you are revoking now and retroactively?

TRUMP: Number one, the 14th Amendment is very questionable as to whether or not somebody can come over, have a baby, and immediately the baby is a citizen.

CUOMO: The court has pretty much said that immigrants here, this is a minority legal opinion you're talking about.

TRUMP: There are many people that totally feel that -- amending is too big a deal. It will be two terms. I'd be in my second term on my eighth year by the time assuming everything went smoothly, because to amend the constitution --

CUOMO: It takes a long time, especially on a very divisive issue.

TRUMP: I believe you can win it legally, OK, I believe you can win it legally. And in any event the parents have to leave. If the parents leave, unless they are very bad people, they're going to take their baby.

CUOMO: And 75 percent of the country feels that you should be trying to find a way to let people stay with conditions as opposed to kicking everybody out.

TRUMP: These people, the really good ones, and we have some great ones, we're going to try to expedite so they can come back. But they're going to come back legally. When you look at Baltimore, when you look at Chicago, when you look at the crime going on, you have some of these people are illegal immigrants. I mean, they're illegal, they come into the country, they're gang members, they're the toughest of the group.

CUOMO: You know most of them are coming in here to fight for the dream.

TRUMP: I'd get them out before I start building the wall, and I will start building that wall soon. I will get them out. The first thing I'm doing is getting the bad ones out, and they're gone, and they're not coming back either. I'm going to increase the hell out of the border in terms of the guards and the border patrol, who I've gotten to know a lot of them when I went to the border recently, and they're fantastic. They want to be able to do their job. They're stopped from doing their job. Before I even start the wall, and I will start the wall very quickly -- do you know one of the things that's holding up the wall? Environmental impact statements. Can you believe this?

CUOMO: I think that's got to be low on the list.

TRUMP: That's one of the things, they can't get environmental permits. Can you believe this.

CUOMO: What about going after the employers? And this isn't a cheap thing to come at you and say you're one of them.

TRUMP: That's true. That's true. They've checked all of my buildings, and so far with all of the jobs that I have, Washington, so far nobody's found one. Are you impressed?

CUOMO: Good for you. I was impressed the moment you sat down. What I'm saying is you have these employers that fund the agro companies, the other big manufacturers, they take them in because it's cheap labor. And they get away with it all the time. You never about a big case of them getting busted unless something happens and it goes away.

TRUMP: First of all, we do have people that could do those jobs and they're unemployed now in this country. Second of all, those good people, I want them to come back in. I want them to go out, but I want them to come back legally. So they can come back and work for those companies. I do want them to come back.

CUOMO: Do you go after the employers who are doing it the wrong way?

TRUMP: One way you find out who they are is through the employers, absolutely.

CUOMO: Let me ask you about the Pope. The Pope is coming. Do you want to meet him?

TRUMP: I'm Protestant, but I have great respect for the Pope. I like the Pope. I actually like him. He's becoming very political, there's no question about it, but I like him. He seems like a pretty good guy.

CUOMO: So here's the moment. You meet the Pope. Pope Francis comes. There's a translator there. And he says Mr. Trump this is very nice. And then he says I want to tell him something. The translator says to you, the Pope believes that capitalism can be a real avenue to greed, it can be really toxic and corrupt, and he's shaking his finger at you. What do you say in response to the Pope? TRUMP: I'd say that ISIS wants to get you. Do you know that ISIS

wants to go in and take over the Vatican? You have heard that? That's a dream of theirs.

[08:10:02] CUOMO: You're going to scare the Pope?

TRUMP: No. I'm going to have to scare the Pope. Look, the Pope, I hope, can only be scared by God. But I tell you what, the Pope, I hope, can only be scared by God. But the truth is if you look at what's going on, they better hope that capitalism works, because it's the only thing we have right now. And it's a great thing when it works properly. In our country, Chris, it has not been working properly.

CUOMO: The capitalism --

TRUMP: It has not been working properly.

CUOMO: Do you take him seriously --

TRUMP: Excuse me. Between regulation, between all of the Dodd-Frank, between all of the different things that have been imposed, we aren't competitive like we used to be. We have to open up our country to great capitalism. I don't think the Pope is opposed to capitalism by the way. I've seen a lot of what he's opposed to, and I don't think the Pope is opposed to capitalism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: You dodged a bullet. You dodged a lightning bolt, rather.

PEREIRA: I don't know where to begin. So the Pope is a good guy, he says, but he needs to scare the Pope into reality, I guess.

CUOMO: No. He just doesn't take criticism from anybody evidently.

I'll tell you one thing he slipped on me there. I kept asking will you go after employers, will you go after employers? He wouldn't say he'd go after employers. What he said was, you go to the employers and find out who the illegals are. That's not my question. My question is why don't you punish the people who are hiring people they're not supposed to. But he slipped me on that.

PEREIRA: That was a great question.

CUOMO: I thought it was a great answer, because what he was saying was -- he doesn't want to scare the Pope obviously, and he said as much, but that we are the people keeping the bad guys away in America. And the reason we're able to do out is the engine of capitalism. And that's how strongly he feels about it that he would go toe to toe with Il Papa.

PEREIRA: All right, thanks so much for all of that.

We have some other headlines we need to get to. In fact there's been a fair amount of breaking news overseas. We start with North and South Korea. They are exchanging fire over their heavily enforced border this morning. The South Korean military says it fired several rounds of shells after North Korea launched a rocket towards them. Let's get all the latest on the machinations from Kathy Novak. She's live in Seoul with all of the details for us. Kathy.

KATHY NOVAK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The South Korean military is on high alert here tonight. And the president chaired a meeting of the National Security Council. She has ordered the military to sternly take action against North Korea's provocation. This is all happening while the United States and South Korea are holding joint military drills. This is something that always makes North Korea very angry.

And the other thing it's angry about is the fact that for the first time in more than 10 years South Korea has resumed psychological warfare. It is using large loud speakers along the border that separates North and South Korea to broadcast anti-regime messages into North Korea. North Korea really doesn't like that. It likes to control whatever is being told to its citizens. And it has given South Korea an ultimatum. It says if South Korea does not stop broadcasting these messages into North Korea by 5:00 p.m. on Saturday, local time, it will take military action. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: That's ominous. OK, Kathy, thank you for that.

We're also following some breaking news out of the Egypt. Dozens of people hurt after ISIS launched a car bomb attack at a security building in Cairo. Let's get right to our CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. What happened, Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's the central nature of this building, how key it is to Egyptian authorities, that makes this attack to them certainly the most troubling. And 29 injured, six of those police. The security is saying in a statement in fact a car was driven up to near the building, perhaps using the fact they tried the attack at 2:00 in the morning. Maybe the security was less when the car was dropped off. The attacker got out and got on a motorbike that had been following the car and sped away. So clearly orchestration there.

And the statement from ISIS not specific act which particular affiliates that may have been behind this. Ansar Beit al-Maqdis is the name of the group based in Sinai that have become part of ISIS that many we're pointing the finger towards, particularly given how the ISIS statement said this attack was in revenge for the execution of six militants related to them back in May. But still, the overarching issue is how was that security penetrated? What does this mean for Cairo, that massively populous city in the most populous nation in the Arab world in the months ahead?

And what does it mean more broadly for President Sisi? The president of Egypt vows to crush what he sees as Islamic militants here across the nation. There's always been a problem in Sinai. Now ISIS appears to have their branding attached to those Sinai militants. The question is, where does this leave ordinary life in somewhere as busy and bustling as the capital of Cairo? Chris? CUOMO: All right, Nick, thank you very much, appreciate it.

We have breaking news for you. There's a wildfire in Washington state and it claims the life of three firefighters. Their vehicle crashed in responding to the blaze and the flames engulfed them.

[08:14:57] Four other firefighters were hurt, one critically, the blaze spreading near the town of Twisp. We'll have developments throughout the day.

PEREIRA: Also some breaking news overnight: nine people under arrest in St. Louis following protests, where protesters clashed with police after the shooting death of a black teenager. He allegedly pointed a gun at police officers who were there executing a search warrant. Police ended up using tear gas on demonstrators they say were throwing bricks and bottles and refusing to disperse.

CAMEROTA: An attorney for Hillary Clinton now acknowledging that her server was wiped clean before it was turned over to the FBI. The acknowledgment comes in a letter to Senator Ron Johnson, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. Clinton's campaign also acknowledging there was information on the server that's now considered classified but was not classified at the time.

CUOMO: So, Donald Trump is definitely talking the talk, but can he deliver on what he says we would do with Mexico and China? We're going to ask former presidential candidate and former ambassador to China, Jon Huntsman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:20:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE : Why do I want to be president? Because I love this country and I know that I can make it great again. I know it.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

For you, you know? And really for you. These folks, they've seen it, but it's for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump in New Hampshire last night. When Trump spoke to Chris in their one on one sit-down, he said he is the only man who would be able to deal with threats from overseas including a trade threat from China.

Let's bring in Jon Huntsman. He, of course, was the former governor of Utah, he ran for president himself in 2012, he was also the ambassador to China and to Singapore. He's now co-chair of No Labels.

Congressman, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

JON HUNTSMAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Alisyn. Pleasure to be with you.

CAMEROTA: You are the perfect person to talk to this morning about all of this, because you were ambassador to China, you were a governor and, of course, you ran for president yourself. What do you make of the ascent of Donald Trump?

HUNTSMAN: Well, listen, people want to feel good about their country. They want to feel good about themselves. And Donald Trump is giving a full body, full-throated message and hitting all of the high points on the issues that people feel pretty passionate about. At least those who turned out in the early process of Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina.

So, it's -- the question becomes then, Alisyn, can he go from a protest vote to a mainstream candidate? And in order to do that, you've got to come up with policy proposals. You've got to get your ground game organized in those early primary states.

And you have to begin to speak in a language that allows you to build coalitions, because the only way you get things done in government, whether you're a governor or whether you're president of the United States is by crossing party lines and actually bringing people together for purposes of problem-solving and finding solutions to the big issues of the day.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, let's talk about something he's very focused on and that is China. He says the U.S. is being worked over by China in terms of trade deals. Let me play for you a little bit of what Donald Trump told Chris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: China's doing it to us. China dumps all their stuff with us. And I'm not complaining about that. But I have friend that are manufacturers. They cannot get their product into China. So, if they're going to do it to us. We have to do it to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Governor, is he right? Is the U.S. getting a raw deal from China?

HUNTSMAN: Well, we've had an imbalance in the relationship with China for a very, very long time. There are obviously market access issues.

But here's what's going to happen in the years ahead. We're probably going to find the greatest export boom that we have ever seen in terms of our products being able to be exported into China. We're going to see a large inflow of investments from China coming into the United States. I've already heard them say, that some of that investment is already been used to buy up some of Trump's properties.

So, you've got the largest two economies in the world. You've got the natural tension and conflict that will go with that. I've sat at the highest levels of business. I've sat at the highest levels of government. I've seen this relationship work now for 30 years. Here's what's

going to happen in the United States that I think is being lost in this whole conversation about you know, stupid people on this side, smart people on that side.

We're having an energy boom in this country that's just beginning to play out. And it will allow us, and you're already seeing early evidence of it, to get our manufacturing muscle back in working order. And with that, every city, every state then able to export more products to the rest of the world and also to our largest consumer market of all, which will be China.

CAMEROTA: Yes --

HUNTSMAN: So, yes, you've got to navigate the challenges going forward, but let's not lose sight of the huge issues that exist between both countries.

CAMEROTA: Governor, that is such a good point. The energy boom, people don't talk about that enough. That is a big reason to be optimistic about the U.S. economy going forward.

However, Donald Trump says he has the solution to the inequity with China and he can sum it up in two words. His solution, Carl Icahn. Here is his explanation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I take a guy like Carl Icahn. You take Henry Kravis, you took so many of the guys that I now. And you say I'd like you to watch over some of the deals with China, because we're getting killed on trade.

Believe me, we will so good, you should get a guy like Carl on.. Very smart, great negotiator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Governor is that the number? Let your friend, the 79-year- old billionaire oversee China?

HUNTSMAN: Carl Icahn is terrific and Henry Kravis. I know them both. You should go ask them if they're willing to drop whatever they're doing to sign the volumes of background check forms that one needs to get into government service, then to set before a Senate hearing, which are largely invasive and disruptive and take six months, maybe even a year. I've been through that process three times before.

Usually when people stair down all of the impediments that stand in front of government service, they say, thank you, I like where I am. I'll leave it to other people.

That's not to say you can't bring Carl Icahn and Henry Kravis, they're into the conversation about how to be sharper and better.

CAMEROTA: And is that a good answer? [08:25:01] I mean, is that a good idea. Would you bring Carl Icon

into the conversation?

HUNTSMAN: And this is where I think Donald Trump is hitting a pretty good note here. He's saying we need better people in government service. And I'm absolutely convinced we need better people in government service.

We have a problem in that we have a brain drain going to the private sector. They're going to hedge funds, private equity funds, and they're not going to get into government service.

So if Donald Trump can make a clarion call to the country, like John F. Kennedy, in calling for a new frontier in 1960 and people then show up for work and want to help their country. That would be a great value to this doesn't longer term.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Hillary Clinton. She's dealing with issues surrounding her e-mail and server. We did find out this morning that her lawyer this morning did confirm the e-mail server was wiped clean because it only had personal e-mails left on it that nobody else needs to see. How big a problem do you think this is for her campaign?

HUNTSMAN: Oh, I think it's a huge problem. And again I worked with Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of state. I like her and I respect her. She's a hard-working person. I figured at first if they were just benign personal messages back and forth, there probably wouldn't be much to it.

But now that more information is coming out about the nature of these messages. I think if you find any that were classified or even deeper than that compartmented government information, it could be a deal breaker for Hillary Clinton.

CAMEROTA: Is that right? You think its would be a deal breaker for her winning the presidency if there were things of a sensitive nature on her e-mail. Let me ask you: how could she be secretary of state without having seen e-mails of a sensitive nature?

HUNTSMAN: Well, you know, when you're in government service, and some of those have been there. You've got different modes of community, you have classified channels of information and unclassified channels. They're pretty streak in terms of what they allow going through the respected channels. People understand the rules of the game. And if you find there was a commingling of classified and non-classified information, a private server, I think that really creates a huge problem.

But it's the perception issue as much as anything else. There may have been some laws violated. I mean, we'll have to see that overtime. But then it gets to those who were organizing and funding campaigns, on whether they believe that with these kinds of issues, you can actually take the candidate over the longer term of the campaign without there being an implosion at some point.

CAMEROTA: Governor Jon Huntsman, pleasure to talk to you. Thanks so much.

HUNTSMAN: Good to talk to you. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: So, Alisyn, we've been talking so much about Donald Trump, right? All this buzz around him. But some people are wondering is he putting on a show or is he the real deal?

Well, I thought who could we get to talk about something like that? Oh yes, the former Cincinnati mayor, the one, the only, Jerry Springer is here to talk all things politics.

Good to see you.

JERRY SPRINGER, THE JERRY SPRINGER SHOW: It's nice to see you. You don't have to call --

PEREIRA: I know, I know --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)