Return to Transcripts main page

AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Jeb Bush Not in Good Campaign Position, Clinton Confronted by Black Lives Matter Activists; 2 Women Pass Grueling Ranger Training; Rubio Says Trump Wrong, Don't Repeal 14th Amendment; Morton Downey Jr Created Shock TV. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired August 18, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton have spawned awkward moments beyond Donald Trump. Secretary Clinton with her shifting response to the e-mail controversy and now a new tense video with supporters of the Black Lives Matters and Jeb Bush was being Jeb Bush. The former Florida governor is in South Carolina to speak to a national security forum any minute, but his position, is it now freshly insecure?

Joining us for more, CNN commentator, Donna Brazile; and CNN national reporter, Maeve Reston.

Maeve, I want to start with you.

You spent a lot of days watching Jeb Bush and you say a lot that's pretty telling about his position in the campaign right now.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah. I mean, it was really interesting. We were at the Iowa State Fair over the past weekend with Jeb Bush, and the thing that is so striking about him is that he is so well versed in policy. He literally can talk about any subject. He comes off as friendly and warm to people, but often times when I would interview the voters after he walked away, he hadn't quite made the sale. They still were saying that they wanted to see more strength from him. They wanted to see the kind of thing that they were seeing from Donald Trump which is, you know, projecting a stronger image for America around the world. And so he really does have a lot of work to do there. One voter said to me he needs to get his ball rolling. They want to see more energy from him.

It's surprising the guy who is the $100 million man really is not necessarily translating as well as some of his allies would like on the stump. At the same time, he does handle hecklers well. He's able to take questions from voters in many of his events in a way that impresses people, but there are a lot of voters out there that want to see more from him on that energy front.

BERMAN: You know, one of the strengths that George W. Bush had was he connected. He connected with people at a personal level and it's interesting to see his brother having problems with that.

All right, Donna. I want to talk about Hillary Clinton and e-mails right now --

(CROSSTALK)

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I give Jeb Bush a little love? Look, the guy has been on the dime. He's not been eating a lot of meat, red meat, or the other white meat, pork.

(LAUGHTER)

You know, I think, after this Snickers bar and some of the things he said, maybe voters now will look at him and say, you know what? This guy is really saucy, you know, and delicious. Give him a break. I think he will come into his own.

BERMAN: He has to move off --

RESTON: He did have a beer at 10:40 a.m. at the Iowa State Fair. That says something.

BERMAN: That, I can endorse.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: For the record, I had a beer also, but it was at 7:40 p.m. and there's a big difference there.

BERMAN: I hope not at 10:40 a.m. this morning.

Donna, let's talk e-mails quickly. You said you think it's largely political, Hillary Clinton e-mail kerfuffle right now.

One person who doesn't think it's all political is someone who worked in the intelligence community, our CNN analyst and former CIA operative, Bob Baer. Listen to what he said.

BRAZILE: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: If this was on her server and got into her Smartphone, there's a big problem there. Seriously, if I had sent a document like this over the open Internet, I'd get fired the same day, escorted to the door, gone for good, and probably charged with mishandling classified information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Donna, is there a double standard here?

BRAZILE: Absolutely not. Look, first of all, we don't know if this was classified information at the time she sent it. We also don't know if she generated classified information. All we're doing is doing speculation because these e-mails are being released. And it's important to understand that as e-mails are released, other agencies will have an opportunity to take a look at them. Almost to disinfect them, redact them, to make sure nothing classified will get out into the public. I think we all should take a deep breath. There were 55,000 e-mails. I read over 8,000. One, I wanted to make sure none of my name was mentioned and any of my recipes were given out, that's super classified, my gumbo recipe especially. A year from now we're not going to be talking about Donald Trump sizing up former supermodels or Hillary Clinton's e-mail. Hopefully we'll talk about how do we grow this economy and what are we going to ensure that our children can go to college.

BERMAN: I want to move onto something new and important. Hillary Clinton had an encounter behind closed doors with members of the Black Lives movement. And it was fairly tense. I want to show a clip of it right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, if that is --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The conversation --

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: I understand. I understand what you're saying.

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Respectfully --

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not what I mean. That's not what I mean.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: It's an interesting video. And afterwards, Donna, the people who were in that meeting, they weren't particularly satisfied with many of her responses. What do you make of it?

[11:35:01] BRAZILE: I saw the transcripts. I wasn't in the room. Let me tell you as someone who knows Hillary Clinton, secretary Clinton sat down with them because they were unable to get into her event, and rather than walk past them or ignore them like many people have done, not just in the media but also politicians, she said, no, bring them in, I want to talk. She is not afraid to sit down and have this conversation, and after all, she said earlier this year, we have to have some hard truth and part of the hard truth is that we have to have this dialogue, this exchange, and I'm glad she sat down. Here is what I want to say to the Black Lives movement. Guess what? There are many more conversations to be had, not just with Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and all of the other Democratic candidates, but I hope the Republicans sit down with them, too, because what they're saying is very relevant to the future of our country and clearly it's relevant to their lives as well.

BERMAN: Donna Brazile, Maeve Reston, great to have you.

BRAZILE: Go get a beer, John.

BERMAN: Now you can all get that beer. I have 25 more minutes.

(LAUGHTER)

BRAZILE: All right.

BERMAN: It is an elite group. The combat training so grueling only one-third of the people who start actually finish, and now two women are making history. They made it through, but they still can't join the actual unit itself. So will that change?

Then, from the little blue pill to a little pink pill. A huge day today for female Viagra. Will it get FDA approval? We could learn any minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:] BERMAN: History in the making. Army Ranger training is a two-month program so grueling that just this spring less than 10 percent of the nearly 400 male soldiers enrolled actually passed the course. 10 percent. But this week, for the first time ever, two women will graduate from Ranger school. Some of the physical and mental challenges they conquered, marathon foot marches, parachute jumps, 27 days of mock combat patrols, really impressive stuff. Again, only 10 percent of the people who enter the training for the first time generally graduate. The history that is being made right now, though, does come with a twist. The women, while they passed Ranger training, they can't actually join a Ranger unit.

Joining us to discuss this is Amber Smith a retired U.S. Army helicopter pilot who has commanded combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Let's talk first about this accomplishment because this is history. It's never happened before.

AMBER SMITH, RETIRED U.S. ARMY HELICOPTER PILOT: Absolutely. I am so incredibly proud of these two women who made history when they passed Ranger school, one of the hardest and most demanding courses that is in the Army today, and they did so on their own accord, on their own merits. They went through every single step that the men went through, the exact same physical tests, and they made it through the peer evals, and they made it. So huge congratulations to them. Well deserved.

They made it, which is the point. So why can't they join the Ranger unit then?

SMITH: So what the military is still assessing is they have allowed these special operations unit like Rangers, SEALs, other special operations units to basically decide whether or not they think that the mission is acceptable having women within the ranks, and they're allowed to sort of submit this waiver that they present to the Department of Defense, and then they make the overall decision whether or not they open the ranks to women or not, sort of towards the end of this year or early 2016.

BERMAN: We don't know a lot about the two women. We know they're west point graduates, and we know they completed this training which frankly I don't think I could or by the way, the vast majority of soldiers, male soldiers who enter can. So do you think there should be any reservations to put these obviously two incredibly accomplished soldiers into the Ranger unit?

SMITH: No, these two women that passed, they wanted to be there, and they worked the hardest that they have ever had to work in their lives to pass that course, and people need to recognize that. So often everyone gets so caught up in the physical strength capabilities, which is absolutely necessary. You have to have that physical strength, but there's also a huge component of mental strength that requires to get yourself through that course. One part of Ranger school is peer evaluations where if you are the weakest link within your team, you will be peered out. So the fact that these women, the men that they were serving next to saw that they were there to complete the job and the mission just the way they were and they respected them for it and they passed because of it.

BERMAN: So you know when we talk about women in combat situations, it's happening, it has happened. You have been in combat situations. What are the considerations that should be taken into account going forward as, you know, Leon Panetta said women really should be part of every combat unit in so far as it can't be proven they shouldn't be there, but what consideration should be taken into account?

SMITH: The number one thing that I believe in terms of moving forward with putting women in these combat arms units, these special operation ground units, they have to not even the slightest bit lower the standard. The standard has to be the exact same as the men. It has to maintain that mission standard. This is the physical standard that is required to meet the mission standard. So as soon as that's lowered because, you know, some top Pentagon official wants to have women within the ranks and sort of create a quota, that's when problems are going to start. I don't think men in the military today are going to have any problem with women serving in those positions as long as they have worked just as hard as they have to get to those positions and passed the exact same tests.

BERMAN: That's what happened this week.

Amber Smith, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

SMITH: Thanks for having me. 11:44:36] BERMAN: Moments ago, one of Donald Trump's Republican

opponents responding to Trump's suggestion that the 14th Amendment, at least part of it, should be gone. We'll play you the response just ahead.

Then, the king of shock TV, Morton Downey Jr. How the shock host changed the talk show format for better or worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Just into CNN, a Republican presidential candidate responding to Donald Trump. This has become a full-time job. Let me remind you a brand new CNN/ORC poll shows Donald Trump out in front of the Republican field. There he is with 24 percent of the vote right now. That number is up, way up, from July in the CNN poll. He's not only winning though, he's also out in front of the issues as well. On immigration, more Republicans trust Donald Trump on immigration than any other candidate by a huge margin. Just this week Donald Trump put out his immigration plan. Among other things, he suggests he would do away with birth right citizenship. That's the notion enshrined to the 14th Amendment that if you are born in the United States, even if your parents were not legal residents, if you are born here, you are a citizen. Donald Trump has suggested to get away with that.

And just now in Iowa at the Iowa State Fair, Senator Marco Rubio responded. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's an important issue. It has been for 20 years for this country, for 30 years. It needs to be addressed, and on multiple fronts though. It's not just illegal immigration. That's a significant issue, of course, but we also have a legal immigration system that needs to be reformed. We compete globally for talent and we want to ensure we are still capable of doing that. Canada actively recruits against us. They put up billboards that actively tell companies, move your facilities to Canada because we can help you attract the workforce that American can't keep. So we have to deal with those issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:50:07] That's what Marco Rubio says, the 14th Amendment should not be repealed to do away with birth right citizenship. It is interesting. Say what you will about Donald Trump, he is, to an extent, driving the debate in the Republican field. We'll stay on this.

Coming up for us, a shock jock like no other. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, the man who started it all, the king of shock tv, Morton Downey Jr, his style all bark, bombastic, filled with all kinds of rage, paving the way for generations of controversial tv hosts, and, man, there are plenty. Nearly 30 years later, his approach is credited as the blueprint of loud TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK BUCHANAN, COLUMNIST & POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It was a provocative show to simply provoke the guests and provoke confrontation and he took it further than anyone that was on television.

[11:55:02] MORTON DOWNEY JR, TV SHOCK JOCK: There's a war going on in the streets of America, a war on drugs and the slime that sell them to our kids.

Former Congressman Ron Paul, how can you call for something un- American -- the legalization of drugs?

RON PAUL, (R), FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Because I detest the use of drug. And I think we would have less drugs used if they were legal. I think it's part of the American system to let people make choices about their own personal habits.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knew how to manipulate. He could have been a serial killer.

DOWNEY: Do you believe the government should stay out of our personal business all together?

PAUL: Yes.

DOWNEY: All right, that's good guys. It also happens to be my personal business if I want to kill my four-year-old kid, right?

PAUL: No, no. No. Wait a minute. You're giving libertarian a distorted explanation.

DOWNEY: If you're not tethered to the facts, that's incredibly entertaining. If you can just say anything --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, yeah. You know, I will say this. Mort had amazing charisma on the set. He related totally on an emotional level. There's no intellectual level for mort.

(SHOUTING)

DOWNEY: Stick to the issues, pal!

Slime like you in the White House, I puke on you!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right, the reason we're showing you this is because there's a brand new documentary airing on CNN called "THE EVOCATEUR" that airs Thursday night.

Here to discuss, Bill Carter, the author of "The War for Late Night, When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy." But Bill knows so much about television, including this crucial chapter. Because when Morton Downey Jr, started doing this, Bill, no one had

seen anything like it.

BILL CARTER, AUTHOR: No, it was a new thing, I guess, because at least for television I think on radio there had been outspoken sort of anger stirs in radio but he went on television and was visceral about it and in your face, not only to the audience but also to his guests and bringing up outrage, stirring up real outrage.

BERMAN: Was it an act? So often with shows like this and people like this you wonder is this all to get ratings or does he really feel this way? He was the blueprint, so what was the blueprint, genuine feelings or acting?

CARTER: Well, I thought it was performance, myself. Even at the time, I thought this is a guy who is riding this wave. His father had been a performer, a very famous singer and he had tried to be a singer. He was interested in show business and he gravitated into this and it started clicking and then he kept having to ratchet it up and ratchet it up because it was making him a bigger and bigger celebrity. I don't think he had these deep convictions down inside him that was driving this. I think it was hokey get more and more attention.

BERMAN: What happened to Morton Downey Jr, then? If this was so provocative, if it was so popular, if it started this wave, how come it didn't last for him?

CARTER: Well, he pushed it -- I think he felt like he had to always top himself and he really started to push it to the point -- it sort of pointed out in the documentary he got way far afield. I mean, it started out he was tapping that anger in a political way and then it became, you know, let's put on strippers and outrageous people and then he had this preposterous stunt where he said he was attacked by skinheads, which he clearly did it to himself. But he was on and off the air within two years. A phenomenon and flop within two years.

BERMAN: And we see him chain smoking, basically on TV there. It was lung cancer, I believe, that ultimately led to his death.

CARTER: Yes, it was.

BERMAN: In the last few years of his life, it was spent doing something slightly different than what he became famous for.

CARTER: Right. He was actually campaigning against smoking at one point because on the air you'd never seen anyone smoke like this. He smoked in people's face. He used it. It was like a weapon or sword he had like wielding that cigarette. And then he became this spokesperson against cigarettes because he was dying of lung cancer, yeah.

BERMAN: I want to leave you with one last clip of this show because it's worth seeing, jarring. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DOWNEY: Ma'am -- all right. Listen. Listen to Professor Gershwin.

A prosecutor is not your lawyer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had Downey yelling at people who you felt like yelling at sometimes.

DOWNEY: If I depended on a guy like you, New Jersey's preeminent lawyer, I'd find my ass in the crapper for the rest of my life.

(CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which is what all the reality shows today are based on.

DOWNEY: Who said this guy's New Jersey's pre-eminent lawyer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is that prurient excitement of not nice people.

DOWNEY: Intellectual trash like you, who don't know nothing!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saying not nice things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When was the last time you looked in a mirror? It probably cracked!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You won't quite sure whether it was set up or whether some of it was set up or whether it was real.

BERMAN: Thanks, Morton Downey Jr, I guess.

And thank you, Bill Carter, so much.

You can watch the premier of "THE EVOCATEUR," the Martin Downey Jr movie, right here on CNN this Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern.

Thanks for watching AT THIS HOUR.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield now.