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Trump Surges in New Polls Ahead of Debate; Republican Hopefuls Appear at New Hampshire; Suspected Cop Killer To Be Arraigned. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 4, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[06:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Punishment, that's what we're saying.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it's not. It's textbook school discipline.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, but this was to control the child.

CUOMO: Where was the teacher?

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: How do you control a child going crazy? It's hard to do.

HILL: Two things, first, we don't know if he's going crazy. Second, in school, when we talk about discipline, this kind of behavior is the method. It means that if you do this, and we are going to establish a punishment until you stop doing it. That's exactly what's happening here. He's trying to condition this child as opposed to actually working --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: That officer isn't trying to condition the child. He is responding to a situation. It has nothing to do with conditioning. He wants to stop from happening what was going on.

HILL: That's what I'm saying. You are saying what I just said.

HOUCK: That's why conditioning sounds more than that.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: You are conditioning the child not to do a behavior by exacting a punishment.

CUOMO: If you are an expert in the field --

HILL: Yes.

COUMO: If you are an expert in the field, let's accept Marc's premise, which is what's happening here is the officer is trying to condition a response. He's trying to get him to calm down, he's not taking the normal directive. So, he's doing something extreme. He got called for that scene. You're saying that's what they do. They outsource discipline.

HILL: Right.

CUOMO: I'm saying it's not a normal disciplinary situation where Marc and Harry are going at it. This is a kid who is not responding.

HILL: ADHD.

CUOMO: Right. Why is this the level of recourse? Why isn't there a teacher there using all the methods you are referring to clinically before you ask the sheriff to stop the kid?

HILL: I'm speaking as a school expert, not clinician. But two things, one, I think you are making it far more extraordinary than it is. A lot of kids have ADHD.

CUOMO: That's right.

HILL: This kid doesn't have some unusual illness. ADHD is something most -- half this room probably has ADHD and we somehow manage to get through our days without getting handcuffed. Part of what we've done is we've become sort of --

CUOMO: Do you think they'd win the lawsuit?

HILL: Yes.

HOUCK: This is a situation. You know, I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCKI: I don't know about that. This happens every day. Come on, Marc.

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: This kid has ADHD, all right? We do not know how he was acting before that.

CUOMO: What would you do with the kid? We are going to pick this up in the next hour.

HILL: Rope, use rope to tie him up. I mean, handcuffs are way too far. No, no --

HOUCK: No, if he used rope, it's the same thing.

HILL: I'm kidding, Harry.

CUOMO: Just kidding, OK.

HILL: We talked to them, we condition them, we often brought in people who were specialists on this, who could under rare circumstances, we physically held them.

CUOMO: All right. It was an important point to make. We are going to keep discussing this because the video by itself, Alisyn, I mean, you know, it's a no brainer. That it just looks so terrible that you want something different to happen. The question is, what's available and when?

All right. So, you tweet us. Use the #NewDayCNN. Post your comment to Facebook.com/NewDay and we'll keep talking about this.

Alisyn, Mick?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris.

Well, the latest poll shows Donald Trump pulling away from the rest of the Republican field. But with the first big debate imminent, just two days away, can he maintain his lead? What is Trump's path to victory? We'll discuss it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:02] PEREIRA: Donald Trump making gains in the polls ahead of Thursday's Republican debate. A new Bloomberg poll of Republicans shows Trump leading Jeb Bush, look at that by more than 2- 1 margin. Trump also hits a personal best of 26 percent support, looking there at a FOX News poll.

GOP field is awaiting word on which ten Republicans will qualify for Thursday's debate. Fourteen of 17 candidates appearing in a forum last night. Donald Trump did not attend because of issues with the organizers, apparently.

CUOMO: A suspected cop killer expected to be arraigned today. Tremaine Wilbourn surrendered Monday to Memphis police after a two-day manhunt. He's accused of shooting and killing officer Sean Bolton, an Iraq veteran, a marine, after an apparent drug deal. That's when Officer Bolton intervened and was killed. He will be laid to rest later this week.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chilling video to show you out of the Netherlands. A woman heard screaming as two cranes restoring a bridge collapsed onto a row of homes.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

CAMEROTA: That is scary. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that is terrifying.

It looks like a war zone. Afterwards, homes destroyed, cars smashed under the rubble. Officials say at least 20 people were hurt.

PEREIRA: No one was killed.

CAMEROTA: We do not believe anyone was killed, 20 people hurt.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: We have to say that way also, because there's so much rubble, they don't know who was home.

PEREIRA: Of course. Right. Horrifying.

CUOMO: All right, so, many polls say the same thing. For the GOP, Donald Trump is at the head of the pack. So, what does he have to do to stay on top? What does it mean about where he will be three, even six months from now?

Possible path to victory, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:42:58] CUOMO: The reality for the GOP is Donald Trump. He is surging in every one of their party's polls. That doesn't stop a lot of observers from saying, ah, he will be out soon. He's never going to clinch the nomination.

Well, exactly, how long does he have to be on top before people start talking about what will be a path to victory for him?

Let's bring in Ron Brownstein. He's a CNN senior political analyst and editorial director for "The National Journal".

Ron, how are you? It's very good to see you this morning.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Chris.

CUOMO: Let's take a look at the numbers we have here, OK? We have Donald Trump, OK? There's the number. I think this may be one of the few times, you can bring up Ross Perot, if you like, where a man has that kind of bar on a graph and is that dismissed. How do you explain that?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think people still have a question about whether he has brought enough support to truly go the distance. There's no question the surge is real, that he's tapped something within the Republican Party. And you never want to say never.

But I still think that most analysts, and I would put myself in this camp, I believe Donald Trump face two fundamental challenges. One thing is whether he can broaden his support to the point where he can win contest once the race narrows. It's one thing to get to 26 percent or 30 percent. It's another to get to 40, 45 or 50 percent, which you need to do eventually to be the nominee.

CUOMO: OK.

BROWNSTEIN: And the related second point is that what is working for Donald Trump to deepen his support, among his narrow slice were broadening, but still, you know, relatively narrow slice, ultimately threatens his ability to reach out broadly across the party. He's functioning really as the id of the Republican Party, now he's saying what others won't say, that endears him and strengthens his appeal to a portion of the electorate. But it also I think raises doubts among others about whether he is truly plausible as a nominee much less a president.

CUOMO: All right. Let me push back.

BROWNSTEIN: So, if he wants to be a real contender, he may have to strike a different tone starting in this debate Thursday.

CUOMO: All right. But, Ron, my pushback would be this. He is a real contender. This is his bar here.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: Look what happens when you take him out of the race. Now you see the numbers they want. But here's the problem, they don't like these people in the GOP right now.

[06:45:01] BROWSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: None of them are getting critical mass except Trump, and that's because he is the face of their discontent. And that can go a very long way in politics.

BROWNSTEIN: No, I --

CUOMO: And the idea that he'll get scared out by a debate or not having a policy decision, who -- what is this estimate of what a debate is? It's a one liner contest. And nobody wins by laying out the best policy organization.

BROWNSTEIN: No, you are absolutely right. I mean, look, this is real.

I mean, you know, if you look at the Republican primary electorate over the last several cycles, it now divides roughly in half between a more establishment -- what I call managerial wing. It is white collar, somewhat more moderate, more urbanized. The other half is a more turbulent, populist wing, that it kind of overlapping circles of Tea Party, blue collar, evangelical Christians, lots of voters who feel fundamentally disaffected from the direction of the party and the direction of the party. And with that half of the party, Donald Trump has struck a clear nerve.

You know, look at the ABC/"Washington Post" poll recently. He was winning 1/3 of non-college Republicans, far more than any other. When you look at the other half of the party, though, the college educated white collar side, he was at 8 percent.

CUOMO: Ron, I have that number.

BROWNSTEIN: Ultimately, he has to broaden, I think, if he is truly going to contest with the nomination.

CUOMO: I'm with you. I'm going to keep pushing back on it, though, because I think that -- it's not just about puffing up Trump. He doesn't need that. He'll do it himself.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: But there is a genuineness to the discontent.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: There is a rejection of the normative in a way that he is harnessing as being ignored.

So, here is what you were saying about education. High school educated, 31 percent for Trump, 13 percent for Bush. College grads, much less, this goes to what you were saying.

Shameless plug. Ron had a very piece about how -- what President Obama just did with clean power. It plays to the kinds of voters that Democrats are going for, white collar, educated women, and millennials. People do play politic that way.

However, go to New Hampshire. Smart voters, we are spending more and more time there talking to men and women. He's at 24 percent. The reason they tell you why, Ron, is very simple -- Bush, too weak, I don't believe him. Walker, who? Christie, had enough. Rand Paul, I don't know where he is.

Trump checks all the boxes for them.

BROWNSTEIN: Sure, sure.

CUOMO: He's not a politician. He feels why I'm angry. And you know what? He's really successful and rich, I bet he can get it done.

You can't say that there's no chance that that winds up carrying him very far away.

BROWNSTEIN: No, look, Chris, that is real. But the question is, whether the floor and the ceiling are far enough apart, because as I said before, many of the things Trump says and does that make him appear an unconventional politician and thus more attractive to those affected voters also I think see doubts among more establishment Republicans about whether he is truly plausible as either a nominee, much less a president.

His favorable/unfavorables are moving in the right direction, but they are still much higher among Republicans in many polls that his rivals. I think the key question really is for him, if you want to be a voice of protest, that's one thing. If you want to be a serious contender, eventually, you're going to have to get up to 40 percent, 45 percent, 50 percent of the states, you know, that matter next February and next March.

And to do that, I think you have to convince a broader circle than he's talking to that he is credible as a potential president or nominee.

CUOMO: Very hard to argue with the intelligence and the positions laid by Ron Brownstein. That's why we have him on the show. Thank you, sir. I leave you with this number. The people that said they would never vote for him was 59 percent, now 33 percent. That puts him about where most people wind up being within a partisan poll.

Thanks very much, Ron.

Mick?

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Chris.

PEREIRA: Good way to break it all down, thanks, Chris. Two Americans accused of illegally hunting lions in Zimbabwe. There has been a whole lot of backlash globally. So, what can be done to stop poaching an illegal hunt? We'll discuss it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:53:00] PEREIRA: There is growing global backlash to trophy handing his morning in the wake of the illegal killing of a prized lion in Zimbabwe by an American dentist. American Airlines and Delta are now banning the shipment of big animals like lions and elephants as trophies. The question is, can poaching be stopped?

Joining us now is Animal Planet's large predator expert, Dave Salmoni.

Good to have you back on the program.

Sorry, we have had to talk about this again. There is word that there is another American, this time, a doctor that's accused of illegally trophy hunting in Zimbabwe and it occurred months before Cecil was killed. What was your reaction, Dave?

DAVE SALMONI, LARGE PREDATOR EXPERT, ANIMAL PLANET: I don't think it's one of surprise. You know, I feel like this is something that's been going on for years and years. The trophy business is a big business.

So, people like myself, we have been aware of this and trying to fight for this or against this obviously for years. But, the fact they have decided to backtrack for a month and choose this guy, I don't know what happened.

PEREIRA: What kind of safeguards are in place to prevent illegal poaching or this kind of illegal hunt?

SALMONI: Yes, in most of these national parks t protected areas, you start with a fence, because that's -- you build a fence, then patrol the fence. So, most parks have their teams. They will be out for 24 hours looking for signs of poaching from, you know, subsistence poaching, which is just some guy who's trying to feed his family, all the way to the type of poaching the trophy guys use.

PEREIRA: There's been a lot of backlash globally about these two stories, these two cases. But then there's also been big trophy hunters speaking up, sort of saying, look, this is what we love to do. It is a sport to us. Some of them argue that they do more for conservation than conservationists do. I know you have opinions on that. And then, others will say it's not about the killing of the animal, it's about the hunt.

SALMONI: Yes, I feel like -- they certainly don't have moral or ethical grounds to stand on.

[06:55:02] The fact you can spit out your mouth, I get a thrill from killing something, I don't understand. The fact they hide behind the shield of conservation. They feel all their money they spend goes to helping animals.

And the fact is, it doesn't. Absolutely, they pay a lot of money for their permits and it goes to a governing body somewhere. The dollars do not hit the ground in conservation.

PEREIRA: They don't trickle down that way.

SALMONI: And they do know that. And it's -- they are trying to sleep well at nighttime.

PEREIRA: So, a lot of people are struggling with how they can make -- how to make the change. But we have seen something change. We know that both American Airlines and Delta now say they will not transport animal that is have been hunted in this fashion. Do you think that's a step in the right direction, Dave?

SALMONI: There's a lot of steps in the right direction. This is a great positive coming out of such a tragedy. We had the same question.

So, we started up our own Web site animalsarenottrophies.com. Go there and you can get information, figure out what you are passionate about. What you think is the job. You can either, you know, donate money, donate your time or donate your voice.

It seems like, globally, people are starting to do that because they are realizing that this trophy hunting is pretty despicable.

PEREIRA: Can you give us an update perhaps on the state of that pride. We know that in Cecil's death, in his absence, his brother, Jericho, who is part of the alpha males protecting the pride, Jericho sort of steps up there. Does that mean those cubs will be protected?

SALMONI: They will be protected as best as Jericho can. Jericho is part of a coalition formed with Cecil. The loss of Cecil makes things more difficult. What happens is there are sometimes, you know, individual male that is try to take over or other coalitions of two, three, four or more.

So, you know, if an individual male comes he might have a great chance of protecting his pride. Now, as chances, you know, carry on, as time goes on, he's going to come across a coalition bigger than himself and really be outmatched. So, the hope is he's able to protect the cubs long enough for them to get big enough that they are not nursing anymore.

PEREIRA: All right. Dave Salmoni, thanks for joining us.

We should point out that Animal Planet is going to air a marathon for World Lion Day, which is Monday, August 10th. You can go to, as Dave mentioned, animalsarenottrophies.com for more information.

A lot of news to get to. Let's start it off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fourteen presidential hopefuls took to the stage.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a fight for the character of this nation.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here's my foreign policy -- a clench fist and an open hand.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The leaders of our country who are failing the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The elephant in the room was the one who didn't attend, Donald Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a debater. I don't stand-up and debate like these politicians.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's about time we said, enough is enough.

CUOMO: Planned Parenthood will not be defunded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motion is not agreed to.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If this feels like a full on assault on women's health, that's because it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The outbreak of the Legionnaire's disease. Who will get worse before it gets better?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be an increase in cases.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are very scared about this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Controversial video.

UNIDENTIFIED KID: Ow, that hurts!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no legitimate law enforcement purpose.

OFFICER: You want them off or not?

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. And welcome to your NEW DAY.

Days before the first Republican presidential debate, Donald Trump further cementing his status as the GOP front-runner. Two new polls to tell you about this morning. Bloomberg has Trump with a 2-1 advantage over Jeb Bush.

CUOMO: And a FOX poll has him at 26 percent, that's a personal best for him, just about doubled his support in two months. Now, the polls made him a leader and also spoiler because his popularity will squeeze out a bunch of the GOP field trying to be among these ten candidates to make the cut for Thursday's debate.

So, let's begin our coverage. We have CNN's Athena Jones live in Manchester.

Athena, the latest?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

That's right, we are hours away from learning who is going to be on that debate stage on Thursday night. For the top tiered candidates, last night was a chance to practice their debate talking points. For those candidates who won't make the cut, it was still a chance to connect with voters just on a much, much, smaller stage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MODERATOR: Please welcome the candidates.

JONES (voice-over): The first GOP forum wasn't technically a debate, but it certainly felt like a preview.

On Monday night, 14 presidential hopefuls for the Republican ticket took the stage at St. Anselm College in New Hampshire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I pledge allegiance to the flag --

JONES: The candidates discussing their policies, and some using their one-on-one time with the moderator to dole out punches against Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

FIORINA: She lied about Benghazi. She has, as well, lied about her servers and the kinds of information she had on her server. These go to the core of her character.