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New York Man Accused of Trying to Help ISIS; Kerry Making Case to Members of Congress; Dempsey Says Wait to Lift Iran Sanctions; Airplane Debris Found Near Madagascar; Kerry Makes Case for Iran Deal. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 29, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[13:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin this hour with an arrest announced today here in the United States once again connected to ISIS. A Lackawanna, New York man just outside of Buffalo has been arrested and charged with attempting to provide material support to resources -- and resources to ISIS. The man is also accused of pledging his support to the ISIS leadership, including Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi.

Let's get some details on who this man is, exactly what he's accused of doing. Our Justice Reporter Evan Perez has been going through the documents, and they've released, Evan, a lot of documents, in connection with this arrest.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Wolf. They've been -- they've had an eye on Arafat Nagi, he's 44 years old, for some time. He travelled two separate times, according to the FBI and the -- and the Justice Department, two separate times to Turkey in order, according to them, to try to join ISIS.

Now, the first visit was in October, 2012. He turned back because of illness. In July of 2014 last year, he also went there. And, again, he was planning, according to the FBI, to go join ISIS but then turned back because he's -- he felt he was being followed by Turkish intelligence. According to the FBI, he espoused violent jihad to people in the community there who alerted the FBI, and he also, on Twitter, said that he pledged allegiance to the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi.

We have a list of a few things that he bought ahead of his trips to Turkey on eBay. He bought body armor, night vision goggles, camouflage clothing and shad da flag, this is the black flag with Islamic teachings on it, very common with jihadi followers, as you know. And right now, he is now facing 50 years in prison.

BLITZER: Five O.

PEREZ: Five zero, if he is -- if he is found guilty of this. The FBI says that -- you know, we often hear criticism that these cases seem to be people who are not all together there, that perhaps this is entrapment. But this guy seemed, according to -- if everything in this document is true, you know, he seemed very determined to try to reach Syria to join ISIS.

BLITZER: And they decided to move in and arrest him now because they think some sort of actual terrorist plot was about to take place. Because they have been watching them, as you point out, for a few years.

PEREZ: They had been watching him for at least a year but they decided, finally today, to go to arrest him because they felt that they'd watched enough and they had enough to bring charges. And they just wanted to make sure that he didn't go and do something because he seemed to be getting more and more militant and more agitated, according to the FBI.

BLITZER: Almost every day, we get a new arrest here in the United States.

PEREZ: Exactly.

BLITZER: In Florida -- in South Florida --

PEREZ: Yesterday.

BLITZER: -- in Key West yesterday, they arrested an individual suspected of being involved with ISIS.

PEREZ: Right. Flooding a bombing on a beach in Key West.

BLITZER: Yes, it sort of underscores what James Comey, the FBI Director, told me last week. ISIS is now a bigger terror threat to the U.S. homeland than Al Qaeda.

PEREZ: Right. We see it every day.

BLITZER: Yes, we see these arrests going on. All right, thanks very much, Evan.

PEREZ: Thanks.

BLITZER: A lot going on. We're going to continue to follow that story. There's also breaking news out of Afghanistan right now. The government there says the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, is dead and that he died more than two years ago. The reclusive leader's death has been rumored for years, but the Taliban dismissed the rumors.

Our Senior International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is following developments. He's joining us from Beirut right now. Nick, what have you learned?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL C0RRESPONDENT: Well, for the first time, the Afghan presidential palace, the government there, is saying that he died in April of 2013 of an unknown illness and intelligence officials saying, in fact, it may have occurred in a hospital. But, importantly, they're saying this occurred in the southern city of Karachi in Pakistan.

Now, let's just pause, Wolf, and remember who Mullah Omar was. Taliban haven't confirmed his death but this is a new departure in what the Afghan government is willing to say about it. This is the man that led the insurgency in Afghanistan, America's longest war when they were there. He's behind the insurgency that killed over 2,000 American soldiers in a war responsible for the deaths of 10s of thousands of Afghans. A real palace (ph) manic figure, really. The man who founded the Taliban who sheltered Bin Laden as they headed up towards 911. So, his death certainly a seismic moment in Afghanistan itself.

What we having been hearing all day have been confusing reports, initially emerging the head of a press conference that was thought (ph) to be announcing a death that never happened, then Afghan intelligence officials leaking more details, and then, finally, the presidential palace confirming it.

Wolf, the real suspicion here is that this announcement is so close to a new round of peace talks the Taliban are having with the Afghan government. Perhaps somebody has been trying to rock the boat by making this announcement ahead of those talks to undermine the Taliban, to make them have to answer the question, well, who's really in charge -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And so, the notion that it's taken more than two years to confirm his death, why did it take so long? What's the analysis?

WALSH: Well, he's always been a reclusive figure, extraordinarily hard to know where he was, of course, because he was hunted by U.S. Special Forces for over a decade.

[13:05:01] But if he was in Pakistan, then there'll be many questions now being asked about the parallels with Bin Laden, was he getting assistance from Pakistani intelligence? Well, I spoke to one member of the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence resources, and actually he laughed off the notion that that Mullah Omar was dead.

So, a confusing picture here, certainly. But I think also, too, he'd become reclusive, perhaps because of his state of health. Fifty-five is the age he was said to have died. He's close to 60, life expectancy for many Afghan males. He was injured when he was fighting the Soviets (INAUDIBLE) his health (INAUDIBLE.) I think the Taliban to their leadership increasingly senior, increasingly under pressure, even from ISIS now who are moving into Afghanistan challenging the Taliban's writ of authority in certain areas. In fact, at some point, militants have been challenging Mullah Omar to come forward and prove he's alive. That may be much harder now if the Taliban finally confirm he is dead.

But the insurgencies changed so much in Afghanistan since Mullah Omar first began fighting the Americans in 2001, barely recognizable, much younger, much more radical and potentially looking towards ISIS now to lead them forward. A very dangerous time indeed for this man to suddenly fall off a map, if that is the case, particularly with these peace talks looming now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh reporting for us, thank you.

Here in Washington, the secretary of state, John Kerry, is back up on Capitol Hill today, once again making his pitch to Congress to support the Iran nuclear deal. He's joined by the secretaries of defense and energy as well as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Congress is in the midst of its 60-day review period where it could approve or kill the deal. But the secretary, John Kerry, he is encountering some serious skepticism once again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: -- or do you want to go right back to where they were when they had 19,000 centrifuges, 12,000 kilograms of material, enough for 10 to 12 the bombs. They've already mastered the fuel cycle. So, don't be looking 15 years down the road, right now they have this ability. And we're stopping that. We're taking that away from them and providing a lifetime --

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The senator's time has expired.

How'd that North Korean deal work out for you, Senator McCaskill?

KERRY: Well, Senator, I can give you the complete --

MCCAIN: I -- Senator McCaskill is -- your time has expired. Senator McCaskill.

KERRY: It didn't work out for me. I didn't cut the deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: John Kerry's telling John McCain, the Chairman of the Arms Services Committee, it didn't work out for me. I didn't cut the deal. You heard Senator McCain say, how did that North Korea deal work out? A little tough exchange there.

Barbara Starr is our Pentagon Correspondent. Barbara, we're hearing now for the first time on this sensitive issue, since the agreement was signed I take it, from the chairman, the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Martin Dempsey, as well as Ash Carter, the Secretary of Defense. What was their perspective on this agreement?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the sparks continue to fly through most of the hearing, Wolf. I have to tell you, Dempsey who is scheduled to leave office in the coming weeks, a regularly- scheduled retirement, not taking his eye off of his usual candor. The chairman was asked, very bluntly, about his views, his military views about taking sanctions off even if the Iranians comply with the agreement. And I want you to listen to this exchange because this is classic Marty Dempsey saying what he thinks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Just to be clear, when you came before the committee then, you said, under no circumstances should we relieve pressure on Iran on those issues. (INAUDIBLE) recommendation that we not agree to lifting of those sanctions?

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Yes, and I used the phrase, as long as possible, and then that was the point at which the negotiation continued. But, yes, that was my military advice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: What you are hearing there, Wolf, in very measured tones, is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying his military advice was overridden. Now, this does happen, there are political judgments that any administration makes after they ask for the best military advice from a chairman of the Joint Chiefs. But this is, perhaps, the most blunt military assessment that we have seen to date on all of this and just one of the points of contention in the hearing. Still a lot of talk about what site (ph) agreement, whatever confidential agreement Iran may have made with the International Atomic Energy Agency about their potential military side of their program agreements that the U.S. may not get to see a full text, a full version of -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And the secretary of defense, Ash Carter, Barbara, he didn't raise a lot of hope that this deal would moderate Iran's position as a -- what the U.S. calls a state sponsor of terror. He wasn't very upbeat that Iran's attitude, in this area, could change.

[13: 10:01] STARR: Well, that's right. You know, the Pentagon has coined this new phrase in recent weeks, malign activities of Iran, (INAUDIBLE) encompassing phrase, state sponsorship of terrorism, its efforts to use its proxy, such as Hamas and Hezbollah, and all of Iran's activities that the U.S. wants to see them abandoned separate from the nuclear agreement.

I think it is very fair to say that, at the Pentagon, the top leadership watching very closely, doesn't see a lot of change in Iran's behavior yet. And it does goes back to General Dempsey. That's what he's saying. If you don't see a change in Iran's behavior, you just to watch them all the more carefully. He's talked about watching them more closely and very much the need to keep U.S. forces in the region to deal with all of it if it comes to that -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much. Barbara Starr watching this important story over at the Pentagon. Now we'll have much more ahead on the Iran deal. I'll speak live with the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Congressman Ed Royce. He's standing by as well as the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Adam Schiff. He's standing by as well.

Other news we're following, including a mystery. May be debris found off the coast of Africa. Authorities now saying it's way too soon to say whether it actually came from that missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. We'll update you on what we do know.

[13:11:27]

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[13:15:29] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: We're following some other breaking news right now. Debris found in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Reunion Island, which is east of Madagascar, is being examined at this hour. French investigators, they're trying to determine if it might be related to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. The airliner disappeared more than a year ago after taking off from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, on March 8, 2004, bound for Beijing.

Let's bring in CNN's David McKenzie. He's joining us from South Africa right now, as well as CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo.

First of all, David, what are these French authorities, these aviation experts, saying? Do they suspect it is part of a wing from the aircraft?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, they do suspect, of course, that it is part of a wing of an aircraft, Wolf, and they're saying it's way too early to speculate whether this is part of MH-370. But it is certainly intriguing this part of an aircraft washed up on the shore, they say, in La Reunion. It's a French territory. They say they are investigating just exactly where this came from.

It's a sizable piece of an aircraft. And it certainly has -- it's somewhat weather beaten. It has been, if you look at it closely, some time, obviously, in the ocean and they are trying to figure out exactly where it came from. They have -- they have alerted BEA, the French, very well respected officials in France to investigate. They are unclear at this stage whether it will be staying in La Reunion or that piece will be sent for further investigations in France. But certainly they're saying it's too early to tell, but they want to know exactly where this piece of a plane came from and whether it has any link to MH-370.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Do we -- do we know, David, if there were other aircraft that crashed or disappeared in that part of the ocean over there in recent years? It could be a piece of a plane (INAUDIBLE) disaster, right?

MCKENZIE: Well, certainly, with such a sizable piece of a wing (INAUDIBLE) if it is such, and they're speculating, it certainly would be something of a significant plane crash we would know about. It would be something that wasn't reported, of course. Now, at least two crashes come to mind in that general region to me. One was some years ago, in 2009, I believe a large passenger jet crashed off the Comors (ph) Island. That is relatively close, to the west of La Reunion in the Indian Ocean islands. So it potentially could have been from that plane.

And then much earlier in '95, the famous hijacking of an Ethiopian airlines plane, which crashed just north of the Grand Comors (ph). They will be looking exactly whether they can see serial numbers on this part of what we believe is a wing or if there's any other distinguishing markings.

Boeing, we reached out to them. They're saying they're not commenting at this point. Though they do say their ultimate aim for MH-370 is to find out where it is and, of course, what happened.

Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let me get some analysis from Mary Schiavo, our CNN aviation analyst, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Mary, how long will it take experts to determine if this is actually part of the wing from MH-370?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I'm hoping that Boeing engineers and people who have -- have worked with Boeing on designing the 777 are en route right now because Boeing has three ways to do this. One, there will be part-specific numbers, it's like (INAUDIBLE) other things, but their part manufacturing numbers are on the inside and will be on the inside of this piece of the plane. Two, the 777 has unique flap assembly parts that will be unique in size and shape to the 777 and Boeing will -- the Boeing 777 engineers will know this right away because the size will be unique. The inboard flap is a two- part (ph) system. This looks like part of that inboard flap system, the outboard -- the closer to the tip of the wing as a one piece and they will know that. (INAUDIBLE) leap.

But it looks like it might have had a repair on it. Some kind of a patch or repair. You can see there's parts where the rivets look slightly different, but it could have been in the water for a long time and the rivets look different from wear and tear. If it has had a repair, that repair will be in the maintenance records. If it is 370, it would be in the maintenance records of that plane. So they have three ways where they could look rather readily to determine if it could be from 370.

[13:20:06] BLITZER: And, theoretically, the currents could have moved a wing like that from that -- from that wreckage all the way closer towards Africa, away from -- from -- closer towards Australia. Do the currents move in that direction?

SCHIAVO: Yes, they do, actually. And it depends -- there are a couple different -- well they call them gyres, but there are a couple different sort of circular motion pattern waves and one of them, it was just a little further west of Australia, that particular current pattern would take it to where this is. But it is a very long way. But I remind people, I mean, I've worked on crashes before where parts have moved hundreds, if not thousands of miles. And remember the Japan tsunami, part and pieces and debris from the tsunami in Japan made it to the western shores of the United States. So it's possible but Boeing is the key here. Boeing will be able to identify this very readily.

BLITZER: We should know fairly soon whether or not it is, in fact, any of the wreckage from MH-370.

Mary, thanks very much. David McKenzie, thanks to you (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER: Get back to the Iran nuclear deal when we come back. It's, of course, a highly contentious issue here in Washington. We'll get both sides. They'll weighing in on what's going on and what's next. We'll be right back.

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[13:25:33] BLITZER: As we mentioned, the secretary of state, John Kerry, he's up on Capitol Hill once again today presenting his case for approving the Iran nuclear deal. It's his second day of testifying before various committees in Congress. Democratic representative and ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Adam Schiff, is joining us right now. He's been listening to Kerry's arguments, the other arguments, pro and con, over several days. He's joining us from Capitol Hill once again.

Congressman, thanks very much. Are you yet on board? Do you support this nuclear deal with Iran?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Wolf, I still haven't made a decision yet. There's still some more documents in the intelligence committee I want to go through and a few more conversations that I want to have. But I'm getting fairly close. And as I work my way through the issues, it really comes down to a couple things.

I think the snapback sanctions are actually a pretty effective mechanism. I think the inspections are fairly robust, although there is a problem with gaining access to military sites that still troubles me. But the biggest concern I have over the agreement is over its duration. What happens after eight to 10 years when they have a fairly robust enrichment capability? And what I'm weighing that against, Wolf, which is the other real challenge here for the other side of this argument is, what does the alternative look like and how is that going to be better than the agreement? And that's really where I've come down to is wrestling with those two questions, the short duration of the agreement weighed against what is an alternative really look like?

BLITZER: So it sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, congressman, you're leaning -- leaning towards supporting this deal?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't want to express a lean to at this point. I still want to go through my final due diligence on it. but I don't want to let this drag out. I don't know that I'm going to have (INAUDIBLE) the recess that's going to change the calculus very (INAUDIBLE). What I have really spent the last few days trying to zero in on, whether the practical realities of a congressional vote against this deal, what would then take shape? What would Iran do? What would our allies do? What would Russia and China do? And is it plausible to envision something that comes out better than the agreement? I haven't reached a final conclusion on that, but that's really what I'm trying to weigh. BLITZER: Are you convinced, as officials in the administration appear

to me, that the tens of billions of dollars that Iran will get in lifted sanctions, they're going to have access to a lot more money that they're going to primarily use this money to help develop Iran's economy back home instead of supporting international terrorism? That's the argument you hear privately from administration officials.

SCHIFF: Well, Wolf, I would certainly say they'll use the majority of money probably for some of the civilian domestic consumption that really needs to happen in Iran and to fulfill the commitments Rouhani has made to the population. But nonetheless, even with a minority of those resources, there's more harm that Iran can do, likely will do in its support of Hezbollah and Hamas. It will probably -- a particular consequence in the civil war in Syria, where, frankly, Iran is hemorrhaging resources and starring to hemorrhage people. It will also impact the situation in Yemen. So even though it may not be the bulk of resources, Iran, unfortunately, has proved pretty cost effective in the use of its terrorism dollars and its defense dollars. It's stretched a lot, a long way to being incredibly destructive throughout the region and we can expect that to continue and we can expect it to continue with additional resources.

BLITZER: So you're worried about that.

Let me quickly get your thought -- yet another arrest outside of Buffalo, New York. An individual arrested for allegedly getting involved with ISIS, plotting some sort of attack here in the United States. It seems to be happening almost every day. Key West, Florida, yesterday. And we heard James Comey, the FBI director, say ISIS now represents the biggest terror threat to the U.S. homeland, a bigger threat than al Qaeda. You're on the Intelligence Committee. What's going on?

[13:29:39] SCHIFF: Well, what's going on is that the volume of threats from ISIS has really multiplied. Their effective use of social media has meant that a lot of people are being radicalized in their own homes and unless they get on social media and call attention to themselves or unless their family or community is very vigilant, it's tough for law enforcement to detect these things. Law enforcement is working very aggressively. I think they're often intervening earlier than they might have otherwise to make sure they act before anyone acts out in a violent way. But certainly the volume of these -- this problem is going up.