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DR. DREW

Man Who Killed Cecil The Lion The Most Hated Man In America; Another Shocking Video Of Unarmed Black Man Killed By A White Police Officer; Dispatcher Who Hung Up on 911 Call Resigns. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 29, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight another unarmed black man killed by a white police officer, we have the shocking video. Plus, is the

man who killed Cecil the lion the most hated man in America? A big game hunter is here with another side of the story.

Let us get started with the "Top Of The Feed." A traffic stop turns deadly for an unarmed black man at the hands of a white police officer. The

prosecutor calls the death of Sam DuBose, quote, "Totally unwarranted." In fact, I think he called it ridiculous. He had all kinds of pejoratives.

He has indicated the officer who shot him will be charged for murder. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We have another case here where a routine stop ends with a dead body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE DETERS, HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR: This is the most asinine act I have ever seen a police officer make.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST & FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE: There is no way in hell that I can defend this officer`s actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Police officers do not get indicted for killing citizens, unless we watch them do it on tape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEW MATTHEWS, ATTORNEY FOR UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI POLICE OFFICER RAY TENSING: I am not shocked that there was an indictment, a murder

indictment just astounds me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DETERS: Purposeful killing of another. That is what makes it murder. He purposely killed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Too soon for any prosecutor to say that there is no defense. For any prosecutor to say that this is a slam dunk,

because it is never really a slam dunk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Asinine, that is the word he used. Footage from the officer`s body camera shows the officer repeatedly asking DuBose for his driver`s

license, which he could not produce. Dubois also hands the officer what seems to be a closed bottle of alcohol, but then take a look at what

happens next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER RAY TENSING, CINCINNATI POLICE OFFICER: OK. I am going to ask you again. Do you have a license on you?

SAM DUBOSE, KILLE BY A WHITE POLICE OFFICER: I have my license. You can search my name.

OFFICER TENSING: So, you do not have your license on you? I am asking you a direct question. Do you have your license on you?

DUBOSE: I thought I did. Why did you pull me over for?

OFFICER TENSING: Again, your front tag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Is it an accident there?

DUBOSE: But, it is not illegal to have a front tag.

OFFICER TENSING: OK. Actually, it is. I am going to ask you again. Do you have a license on you?

DUBOSE: I have a license, can you run my name.

OFFICER TENSING: OK. Is that on you, though.

DUBOSE: I do not think I have it on me.

OFFICER TENSING: Be straight up with me. Are you suspended?

DUBOSE: No. I am not suspended.

OFFICER TENSING: Then why do not you have your license on you?

DUBOSE: I do not. I just do not. I am sorry., sir. I was just going to my house.

OFFICER TENSING: OK. Where do you stay at? Down here?

DUBOSE: Right around the corner.

OFFICER TENSING: OK. Well, until I can figure out if you have a license or not. Go ahead and take your seat belt off for me. Go and take your

seat belt off.

Stop! Stop!

(GUNSHOT)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Rolonda Watts, host of "Rolonda On Demand" podcast; Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line"

and KABC Radio co-host, also host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN. In the audience, I got Anneelise Goetz, attorney, host of "Your Life And The Law"

podcast. All right, Rolonda, here we are again.

ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: Here we are again. Here we are again. And, I think the only thing that is different, Dr.

Drew, is the fact that we have cameras. This time a police officer`s camera, a body cam. And, what is also so interesting to me, and I think it

is time, we have all the top cops now, from the head of the FBI to a head down here in this local station, to all across. Cops are having to come out

and say, "We have got to take a look at how our public."

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Right, because this police officer is giving all police officers a bad name. And, here is the

thing. Thank God for that body cam, but despite that body cam, this police officer still falsified statements, still after taking the life of Sam

DuBose, he maligned his character saying, "Oh, he tried to run me over, he -- I was being dragged by his car," and then the other police officers

corroborated that statement? They should be indicted too.

WATTS: But, Sam, is not that the same old same old? Is not the only difference, Dr. Drew, that we have cameras documenting these things?

PINSKY: And, there we are again with the cameras. But, yes, Sam is right, he claimed he was dragged. If he knew he was wearing a body cam, why would

he make claims like that? That is what I --

WATTS: Because he is so used to doing that kind of behavior. You know what scares me even more, is he was so calm. He was so -- you know, you

did not come across like an outrageous cop that you would be afraid of. It makes me afraid that a calm could shoot you too.

PINSKY: Well, it certainly make it -- Mike, you know, your skin is a little darker than mine. I would have pause if I were you next time a

police officer walked up to the car. He is just a very -- I mean this would give you pause, is not that? I mean --

MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION: ON GSN: I mean -- that is the big concern for me is not for my own safety by any means. It is that

instances like this when -- especially coming on the heels, where I have been with Rolonda, with other people in the audience for weeks now,

sticking up for police officers saying that, "You know, I do not think it is a racial issue. We are just getting -- we are getting, you know, very

limited amounts of footage of cops that are maybe behaving under extreme pressure."

[21:05: 20] But in an instance like this, much like Fruitvale Station, where there is no explanation. It is a wild -- just wildly inappropriate

behavior where someone ends up dead. I just hope that it does not transcend to other areas in our culture, in this country where we can see

racial tensions blow over --

PINSKY: Again.

CATHERWOOD: -- when they should not.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: You know?

PINSKY: Well, I do not know. We will see where this goes.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: I am going to read for you what the officer`s defense attorney says, quote, "The guy jammed the keys in the ignition. Turns the car on.

Jams it into drive and mashes the accelerated. He was not slowly pulling away. He, the officer, feared for his life. He thought he was going to

get sucked under the car that was pulling away from him. He thought he was going to get sucked under and killed." That is what his defense attorney

is saying Anneelise. Is that a reasonable defense?

ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Well, he got to say something, right?

WATTS: That is right.

GOETZ: And, what he is going to respond with is that his actions were justified, that he was in fear for his life and he retaliated with the same

amount of force he thought was being --

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. If I may interject. First of, I would like to say, on the video cam, it clearly showed number 1, he had

alcohol, even though it was not open. Number two, the police officer actually asked him four times for his license. He asked him where he

lived. He was like, "Oh, I live around the corner."

WATTS: And, what part of all of this says you have the right to kill me?

SCHACHER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But in that video, it actually did show which officer shot him, it showed the car rolling. So, actually, it

is both officers that should be in questioning. Because the officer that actually was on the crime scene when the car hit over to the side, the wall

was another officer with his firearm drawn at that point. So, really, it is questioning, which officer, actually shot him.

CATHERWOOD: Well, they have charged this --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Which officer actually shot him?

CATEHRWOOD: They actually charged the officer with murder, so I am assuming they have --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, he did have criminal behavior. It was not like he was innocent and he was in his car.

SCHACHER: Criminal behavior? I forgot my license, number of times --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, he had liquor in the car --

SCHACHER: should I be shot too?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He had liquor in the car --

SCHACHER: I got liquor in the car too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- but officer asked him three times

PINSKY: You know what?

SCHACHER: I have had --

PINSKY: You know what? I actually pulled away from an officer once. Think about it.

(LAUGHING)

WATTS: But, Dr. Drew, you are a white man driving.

PINSKY: But, it was --

WATTS: You have white privilege.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: But, I am saying --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, I will say this. I will say this. We do need to get away from this OK. This was Caucasian cop. This

was an African-American assailant. We so need to get away from that, and get down to the bottom of it and say, "OK. There is obviously needs to be

some therapy, because there is a lot of fear.

Obviously, there is a lot of fear and instead of pointing the finger, let us get to the bottom of what is really going on in these officers minds and

why they are having this behavior, because it is truly a problem."

PINSKY: And, I was talking to Leo Trell (ph) this morning after our radio show. He is a judge. I said, "Why do not the police units want to get

ahead of this and say, `you know, we are going to have a standard in our state. Every state is going to have a standard. The police units are

going to lead the way. We are going to have a joint commission that reviews it every two years, make sure that the right people are made police

officers and racism is expunged, that we do not allow this kind of behavior and it goes on and on`." And, what -- Hospitals do that? Why --

WATTS: It is that old blue wall of silence, Dr. Drew. And, I think that - -

PINSKY: You know, but physicians had the same nonsense for a long time too, and it was not good.

WATTS: Not good.

PINSKY: Not good for the doctors, not good for the patients.

CATHERWOOD: Well, that young lady sounds exactly like I sounded during the lead-up after the Ferguson incident, where I said, you know --

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: It is unfortunate when anybody ends up dead, but this man broke the law and we had proof of that, and he reach for the cops gun.

And, the cop was in -- felt threatened for his life.

PINSKY: You are talking about Ferguson?

CATHERWOOD: Right. But, in this situation, regardless if the man did break the law. Regardless if he is driving under the influence --

PINSKY: Let him pull away and then call for pursuit.

CATHERWOOD: You got to think -- think about your motives to pull a firearm and shoot it on another human being.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: You would need to do a lot more than that I think for a reasonable person.

PINSKY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No way do I condone this type of behavior from any police officer, but we do have to think about that there

are situations that transcend race here. In 2000 and 2010, I was pulled over for a routine traffic stop, and I was physically assaulted and kicked

and slammed on a car door.

PINSKY: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am a white guy.

PINSKY: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, there was no specific reason. I, apparently -- the police officer said later that I did not have my lights

on, and that is the reason why he pulled me over. So, here is the deal, I was -- I acted as a military police officer in the military.

And, they in the military they train you to kill, kill, kill. They train you to break people`s stuff. They train to destroy things. And, in the

police academy, in the police training, they do something very similar. They train to get that criminal. They train to aggress regardless of race,

and so the issue here is training.

[21:10:00] PINSKY: Again, I agree with you, training and selection of who they put in the blue outfits, and again the supervision, the standards.

They do not license. They do not -- every little community has a field of team and they set their own standards.

There means to be some kind of statewide or national standard. What is the federal government challenge the states to come up with this. Later on, I

got another very problematic -- very troubling topic. A lion hunted, killed, decapitated, skinned. And, this was no -- this lion was very

important lion to that country. A big game hunter is here to explain the so-called sport. Back after this.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERINA DUBOSE, SAM DUBOSE`S SISTER: If it were not for that video camera, Sam would be no different than all of the other incidents. That man shot

my brother dead. This would be the same if it were not for that video camera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUDREY DUBOSE, SAM DUBOISE`S MOTHER: I am so thankful that everything was uncovered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUBREY DUBOSE, SAM DUBOSE`S BROTHER: He lived peaceful, you know, and in his death, we want to remain peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:15:02] AUDREY DUBOSE: I want everybody to just lift up their heads in prayer, and thank God because this one did not go unsolved and hidden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: University of Cincinnati police officer has been indicted for the murder and death of Sam DuBose. Back with Sam, Rolonda, Mike, Anneelise.

Now, is this really about the body cams? Is this -- I mean, you mentioned something to me, while I just remembered that I pulled away from a police

officer that it is white privilege.

And, it was an African-American woman I pulled away from. Not, that because -- and she cited me for disobeying an officer and came at me pretty

good. And, All I was doing was trying to get out of the traffic. I thought that she did not understand what I was doing, and I got out, but

everything is fine --

WATTS: And, she did not kill you?

PINSKY: But she did not even draw her weapon. You know what I mean? I mean --

WATTS: Right.

PINSKY: I cannot imagine a world with --

WATTS: She gave you her number.

SCHACHER: She has.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: But I cannot imagine, Anneelise, the world where cops pulls a gun because somebody is pulling away. So, he pulls away, all right, well, you

have to go pursue or whatever. I mean to pull a gun too?

GOETZ: We are talking about this last week, but this was not a situation where that officer was in fear for his life.

WATTS: Exactly.

GOETZ: This was in a situation where there was justifiable action for him to retaliate in that way. Sure, there are scenarios where officers need to

use deadly force. This is was clearly excessive force used on the part of the officer.

And, I think it was Sam that hit on this point. We need to see what the other officers were doing that were involved too. Because if they are

falsifying reports, that also is criminal activity.

SCHACHER: They are. They have. Both of the officers that were on the scene, they falsified statements, they falsified reports. And, that to me

is just so heinous. Not only did Sam DuBose die that day and his character maligned and the family have to hear that, just blaming the victim, blaming

the victim. But, then the other police officers protect their fellow officer?

WATTS : But, that is the way it has always been. We call it the blue wall of silence. We support each other. Throw away the key. We do not talk

about it. That has been the status quo, and that is why we are where we are today.

I think what has happened with so much clarification, so much truth emblazened in America`s television and to their homes now. What this is

also saying is that, you know, where do we go from here? Are we in a society now where the police officers are so afraid of the citizens?

The citizens are so afraid of the police officers that these types of things are going to continue to happen as we continue to bring everything

on the table, face front. How do we deal with it? I do not think we have taken it to the next step yet.

PINSKY: Yes.

WATTS: I think we are so busy looking at T.V. and pointing fingers and talking about reality, that is beautiful, but we have to progress as a

nation. We have to.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: I agree. I want to bring in Sheriff Richard Jones. He is an expert. He is from Butler County near Cincinnati. Sheriff Jones, we have

been talking about what police -- you know, why do not police unions for instance or police organizations get ahead of the way things are going, and

sort of spearhead standards or review organizations, or ways to sort of protect themselves as well as the public from these sorts of outlying

behaviors, if they are indeed outlying? -- I do not know if he can hear me there. But let me go to my audience now. But, go ahead. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean I honestly feel that it has always been out there, and police violence against any race. And, now the

only difference that has changed is technology.

PINSKY: We see it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The technology has changed not the people, not the way they have been raised to --

PINSKY: You know what? All my black friends keep telling me that. We have been telling you this for a long time and now you have to see that.

Well you have told me this.

WATTS: This is our experience in America, Dr. Drew. This is not anything new to people of color, nothing new at all.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Nothing at all.

WATTS: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I feel just because we got a black president, you are trying to say, "Oh, so you think if you get in that

prison, you could be safe. No. We will still kill you, and he will not do anything about it.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

CATHERWOOD: And, I think -- you know what Rolonda said just a moment ago is really something important to focus on. You talked about it in how in

the like the late `80s, physicians as a whole dealt with what the country believed to be issues in the field of medicine.

PINSKY: Medicine hospitals had a little bit of acronyism and they kept their mouth shut. They did not report each other.

CATHERWOOD: Right.

PINSKY: They did not wrath on one another, and it did not help doctors. It did not help patients.

CATHERWOOD: But patients and doctors alike had one unified goal, and that was to figure out what works, and where to go from here.

PINSKY: Yes, better.

CATHERWOOD: And, we as Americans -- and this is going to sound so cheesy, but it is the truth. We can no longer look at this as us versus them, a

black versus white issue, a Latino versus everyone else. It is really what can we do now to not create a police state in the United States of America.

SCHACHER: Right.

WATTS: That is right.

CATHERWOOD: And, what can we do to not further create this --

SCHACHER: Divide .

CATHERWOOD : -- this fear and divide.

WATTS: Because if it happens to one of us, all of us are in trouble.

CATHERWOOD: Sure.

PINSKY: Sheriff Jones, I do not know if you heard my previous question,if you heard the conversation here, but I wonder if you have a solution to the

situation we are in?

SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY SHERIFF: Basically, some of the solution that we need to do is we need to talk more. And, Cincinnati is

what we had with the officer that was charged with murder today, we have a prosecutor that has looked at this and he is trying to do the right thing.

[21:20:00] The person was indicted and he should have been indicted. All law enforcement has looked at this. And, we feel that the officer -- there

was no justification for the shooting. And, this shows an example to where we try to do something about it, and we got to police our own. Period.

PINSKY: Well, that is my point. Why is not that -- why do not they have review organizations or statewide or national standards --

SCHACHER: More training.

WATTS: Well, thank God he had a body cam. The cop turned his own self in.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: And, I talked to a judge today, who said "Oh, the police unions are so powerful, they will never stand for that." Do you believe that?

SHERIFF JONES: No I do not believe it at all. We have citizen review committees, and we are fighting this. We got the body cameras. Remember

these body cameras just came into existence.

WATTS: That is right.

SHERIFF JONES: Just recently.

WATTS: That is right.

SHERIFF JONES: And, they are going quickly. Just think, if we did not have a body camera on this situation --

WATTS: That is right.

PINSKY: Yes.

SHERIFF JONES: -- maybe what could happened. Think about it.

WATTS: And, it was the last situation that led to the body cam in this situation.

PINSKY: So, we are saying things are getting better? Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The fact that there is institutional psychology.

PINSKY: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, everyone is looking, you know it is white, it is black. All right? But, there is an institutional psychology

or cultural, you know, psychosis that is manifesting itself, and these are the results.

PINSKY: In law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is that simple.

PINSKY: In law enforcement or all of us. All of us..

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: There is a lot of institutions, right? But, law enforcement has been trained, right? It was a white institution

as what whit is, to do what?

WATTS: Keep down brown people.

(LAUGHING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: To militarize, right?

PINSKY: No, I do not think that is what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But I am just saying. It becomes a psychosis, right?

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, all of a sudden, how are people going to react in fear, right? You have no way of communicating, right?

PINSKY: So, what is the answer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, the answer is either peace or war.

WATTS: Hello!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And we will give them war.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

SCHACHER: Wow.

CATHERWOOD: See, I do not think that that is -- I do not think that, that is not a reasonable -- that is another reasonable take. And, I can

understand anyone being disenfranchised or feeling like they are isolated and alone and fearful of what is going on in this country. But, let us

remind ourselves that this is the United States of America, and the idea of citizens saying, "We will give you war is only going to exacerbate the

problem."

PINSKY: It is not going to make anything better.

CATHERWOOD: I mean it is certainly not going to make anything better.

PINSKY: Yes, Ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am commenting on the structure of the police in society as a whole.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think that we do need more education just like, I guess you make last about review boards, and they do

for secret shoppers and things like that. If they would take these officers and put the right on the streets as soon as they get hired by a

police department, to have them in some sort of, I guess, watch training, like a buddy system or --

PINSKY: Yes. So, some more supervision, some more of the new procedure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, because they put them out there, and they are basically they are going from the unsafe out into fire.

PINSKY: And, what she is saying too, there is something hidden in your comment, which is that in a way we are like the consumer of the retail

store. We are the consumers and we should be reviewing.

WATTS: Well, thought, though, you know, like in any great business or any kind of situation, you want to really look at your recruitment process.

Who are you bringing in, and --

CATHERWOOD: This is not a business. This is a government agency.

PINSKY: That is the problem.

WATTS: Well, in any organization.

CATHERWOOD: The idea had been floated around about privatized police. I mean and there are certain cities that do it right now in the United States

of America.

PINSKY: Anneelise, there are private cities, is that an answer?

(LAUGHING)

GOETZ: No. I do not think that is the route we need to go. It is all the issue of money. You talk about how are we going to have the review boards,

how are we going to have the standardization, but we do not really have the money for that.

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: Let us be honest. And, we are not in the country where we want to have from the federal come down and tell the states. This is how you,

guys, are going to implement your police forcing in the state. People do not want that. So, I do not know if we are going to go for privatization.

CATHERWOOD: True.

PINSKY: All right. All right.

CATHERWOOD: In this state it happens.

GOETZ: I doubt that -- the money --

WATTS: But, I do believe --

GOETZ: We need to make a major, major change.

WATTS: And, I believe major, major change. And, I also believe major, major change is starting from the recruiting process and the training

process. And, we have to reform the whole psychology of our police departments.

PINSKY: You have to offer more salary in order to recruit better people. I think that we should be doing that, number 1. Number 2, no war. It is

not a good idea. We are all united under an idea that we are all have equal opportunity as well. Let us get united under that, under that

principle again, under the idea that this whole thing we call America is founded.

Let us stay with that. And I do feel, though, like today with this story, we crossed into some a new -- a little bit of a new territory. I feel like

I did when we were looking at Sandy Hook. "Oh, this is not -- This is not good. This is not OK." We are in a zone that we must come back from.

Next up, the deliberate killing of Cecil the lion is making headlines around the world. I have a big game hunter to explain how, why what --

help me understand. We are back after this.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

[21:24:41] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Heartbreak and outrage after the death of Cecil the lion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALER SPEAKER: Cecil is very famous in Zimbabwe and was a major tourist draw for people to come and see him and his pride and take

photographs of course and tell their friends about it.

But, now he is dead, lured out of the park, allegedly by this American hunter and his professional guides of the dentist, who dentist went from

Minnesota, who allegedly drew him out and shot him with a bow.

But, they did not kill the lion then. In fact, they just aimed at it tragically, stalked it for many hours before they shot it. The Zimbabwe

police are looking for this American dentist saying that he should answer to the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY; People -- and by people, I mean many of my panel members here are furious with the dentist from Minnesota, who hunted, killed, decapitated,

skinned a lion, a famous lion in Zimbabwe. Back with Sam, Rolonda, Mike and Anneelise. Sam, what else?

SCHACHER: OK. So, first of all, he paid $55,000 to kill this lion for fun. He has been underground, but he did release a statement. I will read

it to you in part. Quote, "I had no idea that the lion I took was a known local favorite. It was collared and part of a study until the end of the

hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guide to ensure a legal hunt." As far as those two guides, the guides from Zimbabwe, they

were arrested on charges of poaching --

PINSKY: The guys.

SCHACHER: The guys were, and they were released on bail because somebody had posted their bonds $4,000 each.

[21:30:00] PINSKY: And, this was -- your eyes --

SCHACHER : I cannot with this. Like you know, like I am just really sensitive when it comes to animals.

PINSKY: I will tell you --

SCHACHER: Well, I cried on the coach about it. I did. And, it is like -- to think that someone would pay $55,000 not for like philanthropic efforts,

not to help feeds the hungry but to go and travel to lure a lion away from its safe haven, to then shine a spotlight on it.

Shoot it with a bow and arrow. Track it for three days while it is suffering, and then to shoot it and to decapitate it and skin it, just so

he could feed his ego, not his body, to me is the most despicable thing I can imagine.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

GOETZ: Yes, Sam.

SCHACHER: And, you know what? I do not wish harm on him. I do not, but I will call him what he is, and he is a piece of shit.

CATHERWOOD: Whoa!

WATTS: Thank you.

SCHACHER: Sorry! I do not care.

PINSKY: Dr. Palmer`s officer, he is getting online threats unlike Sam. It says, @MrHSN says, quote, "Truly I put a cross bow both through Walter

Palmer then track him for 40 hours. Shoot him, behead him, and skin him and sleep peacefully." Anneelise -- what is it, Mike?

CATHERWOOD: I have to say, I am a big fan of animals too. And, I understand Sam`s pain, but I am not arguing. I am just curious. Is it

this pretty common, though. It is like pretty common?

WATTS: Lions?

SCHACHER: Well , trophy hunting to me is a lot more sensor. I actually understand. I have cousins and stuff that hunt. I understand that they

are hunting, I think it is a lot more humane than going through a drive through at McDonalds. But to go and specifically kill just not for food -

CATHERWOOD: Right.

SCHACHER: Just to put that head on your mantle is to me, that seems like psychopathic behavior.

CATHERWOOD: Again, I totally agree with you. But, my question is that, has this man done anything -- is it just the fact that Cecil is this famous

lion? It separates this --

WATTS: Wait, wait, wait. He goes, "I did not know he was a famous lion. I did not know." What do you have to know? -- I do not have to ask

anybody what a majestic animal a lion is.

SCHACHER: And, he has lied before, when he killed that black bear and he lied about it and that was an illegal poaching. And, he ended up being

charged for that in 2008. So, he is known for being a liar.

CATHERWOOD: Real quick. Do dentists ball that hard? He had $55,000? He can write a check like that?

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I am Segmet Chibaka, and I have been studying the food supply. And, unfortunately, I am on the side of the

dentist. And, the reason why I am on the side of the dentists is because dentist deal with mercury, OK?

Dentists deal with mercury. Mercury poison, and yes, he did do it for the trophy, but something was wrong with his mind. And, mercury is the number

one food poison -- in the atmosphere.

And, if you want to get to the root problem, we need to study the psychological behavior. And, yes, he is working around extremely toxic

poisons that does mess with his brain. It is not on his brain, but the brain of society.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Hold on. I got to keep going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The brain of society.

PINSKY: Well, I eat a lot of fish, but let me get back to the -- trying to understand why people hunt. I got Scott Nathan. He is a photographer, a

director. He is also a big game hunter. Scott, you are familiar with all this?

SCOTT NATHAN, BIG GAME HUNTER: I am.

PINSKY: And, I think that the part of the conversation we are not having is about, what is called I think conservation hunting?

NATHAN: Yes.

PINSKY: Tell me about that. What is that? And, is what this guy did anything related to that?

NATHAN: I -- if you are looking for an extremist pr- hunter defending things like lion hunting in wild life and I am not your guy, I believe in

conservation, I do not believe in preservation. I believe in wildlife management.

If you take this country for example, we have many more elk, deer, turkey than we did even a hundred years ago. Thanks to Teddy Roosevelt and the

conservation movement in the National Park.

PINSKY: But, in the conservation movement are people who kill wolves and grizzly bears, right? To control those populations.

NATHAN: Depredation disease control those things.

PINSKY: OK. So, somebody may go out and kill three grizzly bears and it is a good thing for the ecology of Alaska, you say?

NATHAN: It can be. Yes.

PINSKY: OK. And, those are carefully managed events. Is there any way that what he did with a lion in anyway related to that? Does it pay for

conservation? Is it somehow conserving other cubs in that pride?

NATHAN: Yes and no. This is in Zimbabwe, but in South Africa, which is the only place I can really speak to, because I have only hunted in the

Republic of South Africa.

PINSKY: So, you are a hunter?

NATHAN: Yes, I am.

PINSKY: Bow and arrow? Crossbow like this guy?

NATHAN: No. Not yet. Rifle.

PINSKY: Rifle. You want to be a bow and arrow hunter?

NATHAN: Perhaps.

PINSKY: And, go ahead, finish your thought.

NATHAN: So, 98 percent of the animals in South Africa are on private land. And, this is due not to tourist hunters but it is due to locals that are

hungry. So, if it were not for these game farms, and not all of them are hunting. Many of them are ecotourism as well. But if it were not for

these farms, these animals would be wiped out.

PINSKY: Wait. So, I want to cut to the chase in that. You are saying, people go on to these game farms hunt and that creates the income to pay

for the game farms?

NATHAN: To pay for the game farms and to protect the animals that are there. They are financing the poaching security.

SCHACHER: I was speaking to somebody from the world wildlife federation today, where they said there are three to five percent of that money can go

to that and to the community.

[21:35:07] But the money that is raised on different safaris and different ways where you can see the animals that are alive without hunting is

actually 10 to 15 times more than what is produced for these hunters to come out there. So, I think that is an argument that has been now null and

void. Because there is other ways to raise money.

NATHAN: Respectfully, I have heard the reverse number is true. And, I think that those kinds of stats are depending on who you speak with.

PINSKY: And to be fair, this dentist was reliant on the guide.

SCHACHER: Oh come on, Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: No. No, no, no. I am not defending him.

SCHACHER: Do your research then. Then do you --

PINSKY: I am not defending.

SCHACHER: I know, but do you research that he has a history of lying. I am not going to give him any excuse for that.

PINSKY: I am with you with Sam. I am not going to give any excuses. I am just trying to understand what the possible, what the facts are, what -- I

cannot understand any of it.

CATHERWOOD: Let us stick to beaver hunting, right fellas? Who is with me?

PINSKY: Thanks for bringing it back, Mike. My point is I do not understand any of this, and I am trying to get my head around it because I

do not understand the impulse --

WATTS: I cannot even understand being a human being want to go out and shoot the king of the pride.

PINSKY: Shoot an animal.

WATTS: I mean you are taught that from the day you were born to respect that animal.

PINSKY: But, I want to understand it. I am trying to get my head around it. We will keep going.

Later on, I have a police takedown of a suspect in a target store. Another controversial video. There it is. Be right back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: For years conservationist have called for the banning of trophy hunting. But, now the killing of Cecil has sparked

global outraged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Extremely angry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK DAYTON, (D) MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: It is just horrible. I am just so disgusted with that man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Why would I want your hands in my mouth after they have ruthlessly and candidly not hunted but baited animals to a

slaughter then skinned and beheaded for your trophies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: At this point, Walter needs to be shipped back to Zimbabwe and put in the wildlife park, so that someone could haunt

him down for 40 hours with the crossbow and see how tough and macho he is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Killing such an animal just because you want to have a picture and then maybe the skin on your wall. For me, it is a

form of sickness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Hard for us to find anyone who thinks the stalking and killing of Cecil, the lion was OK. Back with our panel. Back with our audience.

Check out this tweet. "Why are not we universally outrage about over Sandra Bland`s death as we are over Cecil, the lion."

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

SCHACHER: Wow!

PINSKY: I saw some stuff on Twitter just now, such as that one. She said that, "He is more upset about this lion."

SCHACHER: Well, what is frustrating is that I have always been very outspoken about equality.

WATTS: And, you have.

SCHACHER: Right to have equal justice. And, I think I have a sense of this spot for a lot of different areas. For some reason, imagining that

three days -- listen, I am not going to justify it. I think that it is OK to be outraged about multiple issues. I am outraged about Sandra Bland,

and I am outraged about Cecil, the Lion.

PINSKY: But, Sam, I know that for whatever reason, legitimately the animal stuff hits you hard.

SCHACHER: It does. It does.

PINSKY: It just gets you in the heart. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It kind of beat me to the punch out of chest about to address this like at the top of the show, you said is this

the most hated man in America? You just showed a multiple like tweets and Yelp reviews like crucifying this guy. I just feel like, as horrific as

this is, I am an animal lover. What he did was horrible.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, do you feel that this kind of -- like fuels this online rage machine that it is like --

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It just seems to me like they are next in a long line of like instantly forgotten things like over the weekend, it

was Hulk Hogan being racist. Now, we rare onto this guy. Tomorrow will be something else.

PINSKY: Yes, you are right. And, we have a --

(LAUGHING)

CATHERWOOD: Thank God for Cecil for brother.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: And as problematic as this is, we have a bigger problem. It seems to me burgeoning amongst ourselves.

SCHACHER: Yes. It is mob mentality.

PINSKY: Somebody said peace or war up here a few minutes ago. I mean --

CATHERWOOD: And also -- I am just pointing out another fact to this. It is just like people seemed outraged about this man and it is terrible. It

is a majestic beautiful animal. But, I mean I kind of think that racing cows in cages for the eternity of their life --

SCHACHER: I agree.

CATHERWOOD: -- And then slaughtering them 10,000 a moment --

SCHACHER: I agree.

CATHERWOOD: Is way more brutal. I mean if you are going to be upset about this, well we all kind of --

SCHACHER: Hey! I am vegan. So, have every right.

PINSKY: Anneelise, I want to get you in the conversation. You have been very quiet. Do you think there is an answer to this?

GOETZ: Well, like Sam mentioned, I actually come from a family of hunters too. Although, I think it is -- I am from Wisconsin and basically everyone

-- on opening season. So, the difference is when you are talking about deer hunting --

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: We are talking about what this gentlemen was discussing. It is very different than going into these sort of Safari Parks luring an animal.

Everyone is upset about what happened here. But, I questioned legally if there is actually any beating -- there is definitely something with the guy

--

PINSKY: Well, in fact, legally -- but legally there could be problem for people making death threats on the internet.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I mean that is legally a problem.

SCHACHER: And, I interjected --

GOETZ: Look at the outfall of this too. We have a dentist office that is possibly closed. So, all of the people have lost their jobs. I mean it is

--

SCHACHER: Yes.

GOETZ: It is bigger than just I am going to yell at this person and make these horrible threats and then move on to the next. What people are doing

is how they indirect impact on many people`s lives, other than just an animal.

PINSKY: Scott, I hope you understand what is the impulse to go kill an animal?

SCHACHER: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: I do not understand it.

NATHAN: I am glad you asked. It is something that I -- I did not grow up wearing camouflage. I did not grow up hunting. I grew up in the suburbs

of Chicago, and a kid that I went to college with from Texas says, "Why do not you come hunting with me sometime?" And, I said, "Not a chance. Not

interested." And, he said, "Son, if you eat meat?"

And, I said, "I am not anti-hunting. I just do not want to do it." And he says, "I think everyone in one time in their life if they eat meat should

pay the full karmic price for their food. It may make them vegan. It may make them a hunter, but either way, it will teach them respect of where

their food comes from." I said, "I am not anti-hunting. I just do not want to do it.

And, he says, "I think everyone in one time in their life if they eat meat should pay the full karmic price for their food. It may make them vegan.

It may make them a hunter, but wither way, it will teach them respect of where they food comes from." By this time, I tried it.

SCHACHER: Yes. I can stand behind that I can. And as a vegan, and knowing that you have killed an animal and I respect everything that you

just said, I just want to know what does it feel like when you pull that trigger and then you see the animal die and suffer? Is there a thrill? I

cannot wrap my head around it. I just cannot.

[21:45:07] NATHAN: It is heavy. It is not what I expected at all. It is -- you will not see me standing on the animals of -- the bodies of animals

smiling.

SCHACHER: Right. And taking a Facebook photo like we see all over Facebook.

WATTS: Like with the giraffe and the lion.

NATHAN: I do take photos, but I am a photographer but it is not -- to me, it is almost -- this is going to upset some people. It is kind of a

spiritual thing. Like I feel plugged into Mother Nature. I feel part of the food chain.

PINSKY: yes ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Gandhi said a nation will be judged by the way they treat their animals.

SCHACHER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I truly feel that that same sentiment of being able to kill a living being transcends to a human being.

And, I think our country has a lot of mental illness. And, I think it stems from our ability to just kill and over exert our power over something

that we can have control.

And, I think that is absolutely wrong. And that we need to work on that. And it is from Sandra Bland, from Cincinnati, from the animals that is all

stemming from the same place.

SCHACHER: Yes. Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: And, listen, we are going to have to hold this conversation right here. I think you are on to something my dear. And, I think it is not --

we have lots of mental illness, but we do not treat our mental illness, but we have a spiritual malady, I think.

And, if that connects you to some spiritual component of your life, I am interested, but I do completely concur with what this young lady said.

There is a spiritual malady in this country and we need to really take a good look at it.

Coming up, excessive -- speaking of spiritual malady, here is a great example of it. A customer in a store -- This is not excessive force? Back

after this.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: And, it is time for "Click Fix," where my friends tell me what is trending on their Instagram, Twitter and Facebook feeds. Sam.

SCHACHER: OK. So, last night, Dr. Drew, you played a 911 call.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: Very disturbing. Very tragic.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: It literally made my jaw drop.

PINSKY: We all just like --

SCHACHER: I know. And to remind people, it was a 17-year-old boy who was shot. OK? The 17-year-old boy was shot from a drive-by shooting. A

frantic woman desperate to save his life, called 911. We have breaking news on that story, but first, let us listen once again to that 911 call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: I am keeping him alive.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Is he not breathing?

UNDIENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Barely! Take one more breath, one more breath, one more breath. -- there you go Jaydon. Good job! Just stay

with me, OK? OK? There you go. Good job, Jaydon.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is he breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: He is barely breathing! How many times do I have to tell you (EXPLETIVE WORD) tell you?

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. You know what, ma`am? You could deal with this yourself. I am not going to deal with this, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: No. My friend is dying!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHACHER: That is right, he hung up the phone. The dispatcher hung up the phone, that deceased teen died. The teens name was Jaydon Chavez-Silver.

He would have started his senior year in high school in two weeks.

His killer is still at large. And, we learned that, that 911 dispatcher has resigned. His name is Mark Sanchez, and he reportedly worked for the

Albuquerque Fire Department for 10 years and has been a dispatcher for 3- 1/2 years.

PINSKY: What is the matter with him? It is ridiculous.

WATTS: I hope he did not hang up the phone on anybody else.

PINSKY: Yes. Right. Mike, what is up?

CATHERWOOD: Mark Sanchez is also a disappointing quarterback.

PINSKY: We can all agree with it.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)

CATHERWOOD: You guys remember the Florida judge, that had a likely the reunion with a former middle school classmate?

SCHACHER: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: It was like a big story a couple weeks ago.

PINSKY: Yes.

WATTS: Oh yeah!

PINSKY: Here it is.

CATHERWOOD: That judge -- yes, she said he was like at the top of his class. And, she always wondered what happened to him. Well, that same

judge just had another unexpected reunion. This time with someone who she had been on a same Caribbean cruise with.

SCHACHER: What?

CATHEWOOD: Yes. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE MINDY GLAZER, FLORIDA JUDGE: What were you on, The Breeze?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SUSPECT: Yes.

JUDGE GLAZER: Yes, me too. Is not that cool? You have a nice cruise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SUSPECT: You was on the cruise this weekend that just passed?

JUDGE GLAZER: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SUSPECT: You did not see me dancing? I was doing dance moves --

JUDGE GLAZER: You were dancing, I was sitting upstairs in the shade. It was a fun time, huh?

(LAUGHING)

(END VIDEOC LIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE GLAZER: I mean if he wanted to flee, he could have fled in -- what was it? St. Maarten, St. Kitts, Puerto Rico -- but he came back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SUSPECT: I do not want to run away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHING)

CATHERWOOD: A 21-year-old young man. He was wanted in Georgia on fraud charges, even though the judge was not permitted to set a bond for his out

of state arrest warrant. You did hear her sympathize with him, maybe it will work in his favor when he goes home from a judge in his home state.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Rolonda.

WATTS: That judge gets around.

(LAUGHING)

CATHERWOOD: Frenzy life.

WATTS: That is all I can say. But, if she gets to brazil, I hope she meets this hunk of burnin` love. Talk about a Portuguese amore. Look,

talking about a hunk of Brazil. Here is a bicyclist in Brazil. He is minding his own business, goining around the bike path. There is a car in

his way, what does he do? He moves the car.

GOETZ: Yes!

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

WATTS: I mean, come on, lifting the car, off the path. Foot by foot. Onlookers did exactly what your audience is doing, Dr. Drew. They cheered

the guy on. And, just a little bit of information, they believe the vehicle was a Fiat Uno, which weighs about 1600 pounds, which is probably

why he got the Brazilian headlines of hulk. Hulked in Brazil.

SCHACHER: Wow!

PINSKY: This guy is a man.

CATHERWOOD: Is gay marriage legal in Brazil, because I am in love.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: All right, we are switching gears. A bunch of police officers get together on one man. I do not know -- Again, this report is disturbing to

me.

WATTS: What is going on?

PINSKY: Why -- I were not on to -- I show of force, to prevent violence, everybody. We are back after this.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: A quick correction, that dispatcher in the disturbing video, his name is Matthew Sanchez, not Mark Sanchez. Now, my "Click Fix." A shopper

who recorded a cell phone video inside a Brooklyn Target. NYPD officers subdue and then punch this 25-year-old who reportedly refuse to leave the

store.

Shoppers surround the arresting officer, as more police arrive. The suspect was arraigned for trespassing, resisting arrest. Thankfully, he

was not injured. An NYPD spokesman says, quote, "The matter is under internal review."

Everybody, it is spiritual malady, we are talking about, guys. Just look inside everyone. DVR us. Also check out our Snap Chat. We were there

actively during the show. Periscope once in a while here too as well. Thank you for watching. Thank you, panel. Good job. Audience, thank you

for your participation. I will see you next time.

[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

END