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NANCY GRACE
No Cause of Death Yet for Bobbi Kristina; Did Teen Kill Eight-Year- Old Maddy Middleton?; Life-Threatening Sunburns Suffered in Hands of Daycare; American Hero Isaac Lawson. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 28, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live. American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s only child, Bobbi Kristina, found face
down in the bathtub at her mother, Whitney Houston`s, exclusive condo. She survived months in a coma, reportedly getting better.
But in the last 72 hours, Bobbi Kristina loses her battle to live and is pronounced dead, the local district attorney`s office launching a criminal
investigation. And at this hour, still no cause of death?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The loss hard to comprehend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 21-year-old female in the bathtub, face down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three years after her superstar mother, Whitney Houston, died in a similar manner...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am completely numb at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn it up. Turn it up! Come on, George. Turn it up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clap your hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from ABC`s "GMA."
And live, Santa Cruz, 8-year-old little Maddy Middleton (ph) goes outside to play on a new scooter as Mommy watches from the window. But just one
hour after spotting Maddy on the scooter, Maddy`s gone!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our detectives discovered the body of a young female inside of a dumpster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight-year-old Madison Middleton disappeared outside her mother`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was riding her brand-new scooter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Oklahoma, horrific injuries suffered by two little brothers, just 5 and 7, who have to be airlifted after their day care,
Happiness Is a Learning Center, quote, "runs out of sunscreen" on the day care water park trip, the day care actually blaming the little boys for not
wearing their shirts, insisting day care workers, quote, "ran out of sunblock"?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s only child, Bobbi Kristina, found face down in the bathtub at her mother,
Whitney Houston`s, exclusive condo. She survives months in a coma, reportedly getting better.
But in the last 72 hours, Bobbi Kristina loses her battle to live and is pronounced dead, the local district attorney`s office launching a criminal
investigation.
But in the last hours, Bobbi Kristina`s body is moved. At this hour, still no cause of death.
Straight out to Mike Duffy, standing by at the morgue. Mike, what are they saying about the autopsy?
MIKE DUFFY, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, the Fulton County medical examiner`s office is telling us today that the initial autopsy of Bobbi
Kristina Brown has been completed. Now, they`re saying that no obvious underlying cause of death and no significant injuries were noted. But
they`re also telling us that they have not identified any previously unknown medical conditions that could have contributed to Bobbi Kristina`s
death.
GRACE: OK, I want to go out to a renowned forensic pathologist, Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, I want you to listen in on what we are
learning. We are learning that we still don`t have a cause of death.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Here`s what they`re doing. That death certificate is going to be rock, solid granite in a legal action
and possible homicide. They`re being very careful.
So there`s going to be a two-step report of the cause of death. The cause of death in hospice is almost always multi-system organ failure. Slowly,
the heart shuts down, the lungs shuts down, sooner (ph) the liver and the kidneys shut down. That`s classic.
But how did we get there? We got there because prior to that was what we call a vegetative state. The brain did not have enough oxygen...
GRACE: Hold on. Dr. Morrone, Duffy`s breaking in in my ear. Mike Duffy, I`ve got Morrone trying to explain this. But what I don`t understand is
she has been in a coma, basically a vegetative state, as Dr. Morrone is saying, since January. We`re at the end of the seventh month now. Why the
delay?
DUFFY: Nancy, the medical examiner`s office is telling us that additional laboratory testing is needed. They`re also saying that subpoenas have been
issued to obtain necessary documentary information, presumably medical records.
[20:05:00]GRACE: Everybody, we are camped out at the morgue, trying to find out what we can about a cause of death. At this hour, still no cause
of death for Bobbi Kristina, Whitney Houston`s only child.
So Mike Duffy, are they giving you any indication about how long the process will take?
DUFFY: Nancy, the ME`s office is saying they will not complete the death certificate or determine a manner or cause of death until all tests are
complete and all investigative, documentary and medical records are received and reviewed. They say this process could take up to several
weeks.
GRACE: Back to Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, we`re camped out outside the morgue, trying to find out why there`s no cause of death yet. She`s
been in a coma for seven months. Now, they referred to the fact that they are subpoenaing or getting documents. What more do they immediate to
complete the autopsy to give us a cause of death on Bobbi Kristina?
MORRONE: OK, because that death certificate has to be a two-step death certificate, it talks about the vegetative state, not enough oxygen to the
brain, and a multi-system organ shutdown. You have to then ask, Well, why did all that happen? And somebody is holding the death certificate for
five, six or seven weeks to show that that is linked to some kind of blunt force trauma.
GRACE: OK. Let me talk like a regular person, all right, because I don`t think that you can deny under oath that you are a physician. So OK, you`re
in a vegetative state, in a coma, and your body basically is trying to heal itself, but they`re trying to figure out, without any forensic evidence in
front of them of anymore -- the body has healed to a certain extent -- how she got in that position to start with.
What about the documents they are subpoenaing? Would it be toxicology, blood documents from the hospital?
MORRONE: The most valuable documents are going to be the admission documents right when she got to the hospital, the admission blood work, the
admission physical, if there was photographs on admission, the admission CAT scan or MRI. And those documents under current health care law are
protected.
GRACE: Right.
MORRONE: And they have to be accessed through the legal system. So that`s what`s going to slow that down.
GRACE: OK. I understand that. You know, as far as trying to get blood samples, toxicology samples, if they even took them at Emory Hospital where
she was taken -- although that was not her first hospital -- it was common knowledge that she was fighting battles, demons with alcohol, possibly
drugs.
I mean, it came up even in the reality show. Listen to this, Dr. Morrone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot believe this!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What`s in there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s in here? Potatoes. I`m making a potato soup. It`s not ready yet, though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It smells good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It smells delicious (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from Lifetime`s "The Houstons on Our Own." And there you can see one of her relatives grabbing the wine bottle away from her. And
when she turns to Nick Gordon, her eyes are glassy, she looks dazed, she looks out of it. So it`s not just toxicology reports we`re getting.
Hold on. Back to Mike Duffy. Mike, what more can you tell me?
DUFFY: I`m right outside the medical examiner`s office right now, and I just wanted to notify you about a lot of commotion that`s going on. If you
can see just behind me, there are some police motorcycles and there are policemen in the distance, and they`re standing right in front of a hearse
that`s getting ready to leave.
Now, we don`t know who is in that hearse or what this is all about. But could it be Bobbi Kristina Brown leaving the medical examiner`s office?
We`re standing by to find out, and we`ll bring you more as we get more information.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, I understand -- it seems to me that her body is going to be moved to a funeral home, but I want to get back to toxicology. You
mentioned that some of the documents that they need before they can give us a cause of death -- was it from blunt injury, was it from drowning, was it
from dope, alcohol and dope mixed together?
We also note that according to the civil document filed against Nick Gordon -- he is not a criminal suspect -- it says -- let`s pull up that tear (ph),
Justin, if you could. It says that Nick Gordon punched her and knocked out her other tooth, knocked out her front tooth, punching her, dragging her
upstairs. It goes on to describe what else happened.
[20:10:18]I`m interested in that tooth. I don`t know that a hospital or a hospice would take the correct photos or go look in her mouth to determine
had she just lost a tooth. Why would they think of that, Dr. Morrone? Because if that tooth was knocked out that morning, was it in the bathtub?
Was it somewhere else in the house, indicative of a fight? Did she slip and fall and knock the tooth out? That`s not what they`re saying.
So I`m very interested. Where is the tooth that they claim was knocked out? Was it in the bathtub? Was it in the bathroom? Was it in another
room, indicating she was punched in another room then put in the bathtub? I mean, that`s a clear line of inquiry.
Do you really think a hospital or a hospice would get in her mouth and look for that?
MORRONE: No, the only person that`s going to look for that is a medical examiner, a forensic dental consultant. And those people can look at the
baseline. We have a skull, and we look at the teeth. Healthy teeth don`t just fall out. Cracked teeth, along with bruises and even nasal fractures,
are indicative of some kind of assault.
Those are the kind of things that they`re going to reconstruct from the information in the autopsy, that they also need the hospital records for.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, if she had been punched in the mouth, like that civil complaint is alleging -- they`re their words, not mine -- if she had been
in the water face down -- first of all, when you slip and fall, if you`re in a tub and you`re taking a bath, you`re sitting down, OK? That water was
not still running. If she was taking a bath, she`d be sitting down.
How did she slip and fall, knock out her tooth and still sit down to take a bath? And how do you end up face down if you`re taking a bath? How does
that happen, Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: That doesn`t happen by any natural means. People do not end up face down in bathtubs by accident. That is not a natural thing to happen.
GRACE: Back to Mike Duffy at the morgue. Mike, there`s activity?
DUFFY: Nancy, it looks like we`re seeing some movement. So let`s just stand by and see what happened.
GRACE: You are seeing the body of Bobbi Kristina Brown being taken away from the morgue, leaving the morgue, followed by an entourage of vehicles,
police escort there, Bobbi Kristina`s body just removed from the morgue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:02]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bobbi Kristina Brown`s death now under the microscope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death of Bobbi Kristina is being called non-natural by the Fulton County medical examiner because of the events leading up to
her death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suit claims Gordon was physically abusive, that he knocked out two of Bobbi Kristina`s teeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom would never hurt anybody!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to let all you guys know I did everything possible in the world to protect them (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You just saw Nick Gordon on "Dr. Phil."
Out to you, Miguel Marquez, CNN national correspondent. Miguel, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us? I understand that Nick Gordon
has only spoken through his mother, and he has yet to emerge since Bobbi Kristina`s death.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s exactly right. His mother, not Nick, has released a family statement saying how sorry they are and how
much Nick loved Bobbi Kristina, but not, notably, from Nick himself. Complete silence from him. It is not even clear that he will be at the
funeral whenever that happens, Nancy.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Misty Maris, New York, Robin Ficker, defense attorney out of Washington, D.C.
Mr. Ficker, I understand you disagree with me. I believe it is completely within Bobbi Kristina`s family`s rights to ban Gordon from the funeral. I
don`t have a problem with that, although, frankly, I`d like to see him at the funeral because I`d like to watch his demeanor, along with everybody
else who was connected to Bobbi Kristina.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is not a golden rule situation, he who has the gold to pay for the funeral can rule which family members come.
Mr. Gordon was a brother, a lover to the deceased...
GRACE: OK, right there, I`ve got a problem, brother and lover. But apparently, you don`t have a problem. But go ahead.
FICKER: Well, they weren`t born of the same mother...
GRACE: No.
FICKER: ... but he was adopted. He was an orphan. They brought him into the family, and they lived together for many years and were lovers after a
time.
[20:20:07]He has every right to go to that funeral. And we can`t have one family member deciding which other family members can`t come to a funeral.
GRACE: OK, Misty Maris, did either of you have any legal precedent on this whatsoever to suggest -- it`s like a wedding. It`s a wedding crasher. Is
there any reason that he should be allowed to come, when the family -- they`ve got a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against him right now claiming
he knocked her teeth out. Again, he is not a suspect in her death. Go ahead.
MISTY MARIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s no legal mechanism to ban somebody from a funeral, Nancy. The only reason you could do that is, for instance,
if a family member had a restraining order or somebody that was going to be there, he had reasons that he could not be near them due to a restraining
order or any other legal means.
To go to a funeral -- you can`t have people unilaterally making decisions about who can enter a funeral and pay respects to someone who`s deceased.
GRACE: Whitney Houston, "Saving All My Love," Arista Records.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:33]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Responding to an ECHO-level response, possible cardiac arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And alleges they had a loud argument the day Bobbi Kristina was found unconscious in the bathtub. The lawsuit also says
Gordon lied to get control over Bobbi Kristina`s money, claiming they were married.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This autopsy will help us answer what were some causes of death and contributing factors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, still no cause of death in the death of Whitney Houston`s only child, Bobbi Kristina.
Miguel Marquez, CNN national correspondent, her body has just been moved. Is there a chance there is going to be a cremation? What do we know?
MARQUEZ: It doesn`t sound like it. It sounds like she will be buried next to her mother in New Jersey just -- you know, just a few miles from New
York City, in Westfield, New Jersey, at the Fairview Cemetery where her mother was laid to rest three years ago, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining us right now is the co-host of "Entertainment Tonight," Kevin Frazier. Kevin, thank you so much for being with us. You actually
spoke with Bobbi Kristina`s family. What did they tell you about BK`s final moments?
KEVIN FRAZIER, CO-HOST, "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, they were devastated, but in her final moments, the family -- Pat
Houston, Donna Houston, Krissy`s cousin, Mika Brown (ph), and also Ray Watson, who is Patricia Houston`s brother -- were in the room, and they
began to read from the Bible to her and they prayed.
And as they finished the 23rd Psalm, Krissy took her final breath and passed away, and they said that they felt -- they could feel Whitney`s
presence. And another woman who was there with them also, Rhonda Shelley (ph) -- she walked out of the room as Krissy was transitioning, and she
said, you know, she felt like Whitney was always there with her and she would play Whitney music for her when she attended to Krissy.
GRACE: Nicole Partin, funeral director and embalmer joining me out of Markoe (ph) Island, Florida. Nicole, thank you for being with us. What
I`m trying to determine is, A, how is her body going to be transported? Is there any special conditions in transporting a body from Atlanta to New
Jersey?
Number two, what are we risking? Once the embalming process takes place, what are we going to lose evidentiary-wise as far as tissue, fluid,
anything like that, because once it`s done, it`s done unless you want to exhume a body later?
NICOLE PARTIN, FUNERAL DIRECTOR, EMBALMER, (via telephone): That`s correct, Nancy. The embalming process will take place, and that includes
removing all of the blood from her body and then filling her body back with chemicals. So what we lose during that process is all of the blood, all of
the body fluids. So that is completely removed and replaced with chemicals.
It`s also my understanding that sometime late Saturday or early Sunday, she will be transported by private jet to New Jersey. Typically, this would be
by commercial airlines. But in high-profile cases like this, private jet, I understand that`s going to take place, as it did with her mother.
GRACE: Al Dixon joining me, former chief assistant at the Fulton County district attorney`s office. Al, thank you for being with us.
I`m trying to determine what, if anything, the district attorney is doing right now. There are several avenues of potential prosecution. Number
one, nobody is a suspect tonight. There is the specter of physical abuse on her. That`s in the civil complaint filed by the family. And I want to
know what happened to her missing tooth because that`s going to tell me a lot.
Number two, there are many states that allow prosecution on homicide charges for drug suppliers, Al Dixon. What do you think?
AL DIXON, FMR. FULTON COUNTY ASST. DISTRICT ATTORNEY (via telephone): I`m sure what the Fulton County district attorney`s office is waiting on at
this time is a cause of death because if the medical examiner comes back and rules this is an accidental death due to a drug overdose, or perhaps a
suicide or something along those lines, they don`t have a criminal case.
And as to the issue of -- the medical examiner`s got to rule this is a homicide before they would have a criminal case. And if their
investigation shows that Bobbi Kristina was given a drug overdose intentionally or who supplied the drugs, they were tainted with some sort
of deadly chemical or something, then that would be a homicide. But the medical examiner has got to rule this is a homicide before the DA`s office
would have a criminal case.
GRACE: With me is co-host of Entertainment Tonight, who has insight and can describe the final moments before Bobbi Kristina passes on to heaven. The
family in that room, reading her the Lord is my Shepherd, Psalm 23, as she passes on. They say that they could feel Whitney in the room with Bobbi
Kristina and actually described, Kevin Frazier, that Whitney pulled her to the other side. Is that true?
KEVIN FRAZIER, CO-HOST, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: Yes, that is what family members I`ve spoke with. They said, they felt like Whitney was there to
embrace her and pulled her as she transitioned to the other side. And it was, you know, I`ve talked to several people, several of the people who
were in there. And Wanda Shelley told me, she was so emotional, as she knew that Krissy was leaving and then she took a moment to walk away because she
is a family friend, and she said she only wanted to be family in there. Meanwhile, Pat and Donna, everyone else, they were -- they just really
trusted in their faith, in that Krissy finally would be headed to another place and with her mother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:06] GRACE: Live, Santa Cruz, 8-year-old little Maddy Middleton goes outside to play on her new scooter, as mommy watching from the window, but
just one hour after watching Maddy go by on her scooter, Maddy is gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Police say they have found the body of a young girl in a dumpster at an apartment complex.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): This is surveillance footage at her apartment complex where she was on her scooter at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Henry Lee, reporter with the San Francisco Chronicle. Henry, thank you for being with us. I want to start at the
beginning, 8-year-old Maddy Middleton had gotten a new scooter. And her mom was allowing her to ride the scooter outside. She could actually see her.
It`s not as if Maddy were at a playground, on the other side of town, or even two or three blocks away. She was right there. She could actually see
her going back and forth from her kitchen window. She spots Maddy, we happened to get this surveillance video shot or cell phone shot of Maddy
going by. Within one hour, she`s gone. Describe to me the series of events that unfolded at the beginning.
HENRY LEE, REPORTER, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: Well, Nancy, you`re absolutely correct. Madison Middleton was just your typical 8-year-old
girl. She had a white razor scooter that she was riding on, right close to her community, right close to her apartment complex. It`s a very nice part
of Santa Cruz. She had nothing to fear and at 5:00 p.m. Sunday, she disappeared. She was not reported missing, realized that was missing until
about 6 o`clock. And surveillance video does show her in -- riding her scooter about 5:05 p.m. Sunday.
GRACE: So at 5:05 p.m., she`s spotted. There she is. That`s the video we`re talking about, 5:05 p.m. she`s riding her scooter. Mommy can actually see
her from the window. At 6 o`clock, she`s gone. Now, there you see the area where Maddy was last riding her scooter. Her body has just been found in a
dumpster in that same artist loft apartment complex. OK, Henry, how was her body discovered?
LEE: A detective with the Santa Cruz police department decided to do a more thorough check of the area that included a recycling bin, Nancy. And when
the detective looked inside, he realized, to his horror, that Madyson`s body had been hidden inside that recycling bin.
GRACE: What was the likelihood that any of this was caught on video? Are there any cameras around the bin? And also, Henry -- Henry Lee joining me,
reporter with the San Francisco Chronicle, I understand that police are questioning a teen boy that lives there as well.
LEE: That`s right, Nancy. This is a 15-year-old boy who was acquainted with Maddy. Both live at the same apartment complex in the area, and so the two
know each other. What the police are telling us, Nancy is that this boy lured little Madyson to his apartment, where he allegedly killed her before
he took her body and hid it in the recycling bin.
GRACE: Joining me is Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. They -- facts surrounding Maddy`s disappearance, Marc, are
textbook, classic. This 15-year-old teen boy actually taught a yo-yo class to children. So she knew this guy. And I`m not convicting him right now, I
know he has been arrested, he`s being questioned about her disappearance, but the reality is, that`s how children go missing every day in every big
city across this country and rural areas too. The perp knows the child.
[20:40:08] MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yeah, that`s absolutely correct, Nancy. And I like to offer my condolence to her family.
I, unfortunately, know what they`re going through. But, you`re absolutely correct on that. The whole concept of stranger danger is so overblown and
creates such a false sense of security in this country, that I wish that we could just purge that altogether.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:50] GRACE: Now, live to Oklahoma, horrific injuries suffered by two little brothers, just five and seven. The little boys have to be airlifted
after a daycare center. Happiness is a Learning Center is the name of the center quote, "Runs out of sunscreen on the daycare water park trip." The
daycare blaming these life-threatening burns, the little boys suffered on the little boys, for not wearing shirts. They are insisting it all happened
because daycare workers ran out of sun block.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Wayne Broadway gets choked up when he thinks about what his usually bubbly energetic grandsons, Connor and Trey, are going
through.
WAYNE BROADWAY, GRANDFATHER OF CONNOR AND TREY: It was very heartbreaking. They were there for several hours and from what I`ve been told, and they
didn`t make Connor or Trey keep their shirts on and they didn`t have sunscreen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to warn you that the photos we are showing you are graphic and the video. Look at this child`s back. Look at what he has suffered, and
some of -- that. Look at the burn on this child. Right now, doctors are considering whether they`ve got to do skin grafts on the five and seven
year old little boys. These two children go on a water park trip with their daycare. To Frank Morano, radio talks show host, the answer. Frank, what
happened?
FRANK MORANO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, AM 970: Well, Nancy, I mean, obviously, it`s these little boy`s fault. They were told to wear a shirt and they
didn`t. I mean seven and a five year old, not wearing a shirt when they were told to? I mean, come on. You know that`s the audacity of these young
boys. They ran out of sunscreen. These boys tend to go to three different hospitals and are still suffering from these injuries.
GRACE: Isn`t it true, Frank Morano, talk show host, AM 970. Isn`t it true they had to be airlifted to Shriners?
MORANO: That`s true. And that was after seeking treatment at two other hospitals. The blisters in the photos that you`re seeing aren`t even fully
visible because they had cream on their skin.
GRACE: It`s my understanding this daycare center has had a number of investigations and complaints. Here they are in happier times. These
children`s lives in danger after horrific burns, they have to be airlifted, screaming in pain because for an entire day, they`re left with no
protection at all at a water park trip with their daycare and the daycare is actually blaming the little boys. What do you mean they made fun of the
little boys, Frank Morano?
MORANO: Well, so, the mother of these two young boys, Shaunna, goes to pick up their child, she`s beyond horrified that they`re burned and they make
fun -- they made fun of the Samuel for crying because of his injuries. They said he was being a baby and couldn`t handle it. I mean, can you imagine?
GRACE: Being a baby? And couldn`t handle it? To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist out of Fort Lauderdale, how does a daycare worker arrive at
the point where you call a baby a little baby? You call him a baby because he`s crying out of pain. But hold on, I`ll tell you why he`s crying out of
pain. Dr. William Morrone, D.O., they`re actually considering, they`re planning skin grafts on these children. They had to be airlifted to
Shriners, the burns are so bad. What is that?
MORRONE: Well, there`s different layers of skin and the fact that there needs to be a skin graft means that the top layer is burnt off. You lose
protection from bacteria. You also lose the ability to keep the skin moist. That`s why those blisters come. The highway is -- send fluid and blood and
limp tissue are destroyed. And then you create blisters. It`s terrible. It`s very painful.
GRACE: Now, what is the danger with these intense burns, Dr. Morrone? What`s the danger? Why is it life threatening?
MORRONE: Here are two major dangers. When you have different layers and you take one off, you can have a super infection. And the second one is, the
blood and lymph that flows to the tissue to try to heal it, lowers the blood pressure through up the whole body and they go into hypotensive
shock. So these people have to be given artificial fluid and then we have to let it drain. They -- we have to overhydrate them to keep them healthy
and we have to see them weep and create blisters.
[20:49:52] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:54:16] BROADWAY: They didn`t make Connor and Trey keeps their shirts on and they didn`t have sunscreen.
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): They`re being treated for third and second degree burn. The pictures of the sunburn are almost hard to believe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to warn you, we are showing graphic photos of these children`s sunburns. They go to a day care water park trip, and the whole
time, the whole day, they`re in the sun in Oklahoma, in the summertime with no suntan lotion, no anything, no sunblock. Tonight, skin grafts are being
planned. The video of a skin graft, explain what happens in a skin graft, Dr. Morrone.
MORRONE: Well, when the skin is damaged and you have different layers, you lose the top layer, we need to come back and put a graft from some other
part of the body. Usually, we go to the stomach or the thigh or some spot on the back that will heal, and a donor graft is then taken and then put
over in layers, and that will protect it from losing hydration and fluid. And it will also help protect from super infections, the two things we need
to control for.
GRACE: You`re seeing animation from Singapore hospital.
Unleash the lawyers. Misty Marris, out of New York, Robin Ficker from Washington, D.C. OK. Robin Ficker, explain to me why there should not be
criminal charges on these adults with these children. They`re now going to have skin grafts according to the family. Skin grafts, Robin, because they
didn`t put suntan -- sunblock on them? And then they blame the boys and mock them and call them little babies? They were crying at the location of
the water park crying because they were hurting you.
FICKER: Well, you said that the kids were out in the sun all day long. We don`t know exactly how long these kids were in the sun. Some kids are low
in melanin or skin pigmentation. They could be seriously burned in only a half hour.
GRACE: Look at them up (ph). Robin Ficker, I understand you`re a J.D., is there an M.D. behind your name as well because I didn`t know that about
you. So I think about -- what did you say about what`s in their skin?
FICKER: Melanin, that`s skin pigmentation. But I do know that many people in the Caribbean can be out kayaking in half an hour.
GRACE: What is (inaudible) in the Caribbean?
FICKER: In half an hour, they can have large blisters.
GRACE: This is five year old boy a little boy and they`re blaming him because they didn`t put sunblock on him. The child was -- do you have
children, Ficker?
FICKER: Yes, I --
GRACE: Do you?
FICKER: I`ve got three, and one of them became very badly burned in the Caribbean in half an hour, because he didn`t have sunblock on his skins
when he was kayaking.
GRACE: And how old was he?
FICKER: At the time he was 31.
GRACE: Did you just say 31?
FICKER: I did.
GRACE: You know what? Stop comparing a grown man who got sunburn in kayaking in the Caribbean. This was a five year old child.
FICKER: You can`t watch them.
GRACE: Marris, tell them what you`re smiling about.
FICKER: You can`t watch a group of kids.
GRACE: Let me go to --you put a suntan.
FICKER: You can`t watch a group of kids every minute.
GRACE: And lay there for two or three hours and see how that feels. You know that`s been outlawed now by the feds and they subjected these
children. I mean, either of you know about skin grafting because it`s extremely painful. Did you see those children crying and screaming in the
video? Did you see that?
FICKER: It`s not the daycare`s fault.
GRACE: Whose fault is it, Ficker?
FICKER: They can`t watch these kids?
GRACE: Whose fault it is?
FICKER: They can`t watch all these kids every minute at a park.
GRACE: Oh, really?
FICKER: While they`re running around.
GRACE: Really? Because that`s what they`re being paid for. Marris, do you want a piece of this?
MARRIS: I would like to, Nancy, as somebody who has fair skin, it`s true. What you look for.
(CROSSTALK)
MARRIS: Legal standard is that, it`s something reasonable and foreseeable. Is it reasonable to believe that these daycare workers would foresee these
children to sustain these severe injuries? My heart goes out to them.
GRACE: The children are screaming and crying, why do you think they were crying? And they laughed at them and called them babies. I mean, Dr. Daniel
Bober, forensic psychiatrist. You know I got to give it to you Marris and Ficker, you tried. But Dr. Bober, they heard them crying and screaming, Dr.
Bober. And instead of helping them, they laughed. They laughed at the children. Oh, I can`t wait for a jury to hear that, I cannot wait.
DR. DANIEL BOBER, O.D., FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Nancy, I have to tell you, this whole thing sounds so moronic. I mean, the hidden decks (ph) was 110
degrees, how could they not think it was reasonable and foreseeable. It`s not as if they didn`t blame -- they didn`t bring sunblock for everyone,
they simply ran out and didn`t give it to these kids. So I think it was absolutely foreseeable and it does just complete negligent.
[20:59:10] GRACE: Let`s stop and remember. American hero, Army Sergeant First Class Isaac Lawson, 35, Sacramento, Bronze Star, Purple Heart,
computer whiz. Memorial park named in his honor. Widow Suzette, one daughter, two sons. Isaac Lawson, American hero.
Dr. Drew up next, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, eastern, until then. Good night, friend.
END
