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Trump Ignites Firestorm with War Hero Comments About John McCain; Janice Dickinson Reacts to Cosby's Admissions; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 20, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like people that weren't captured.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: No apologies, no backing down, but has Trump gone too far?

Also, Bill Cosby describes under oath how he seduced women, the drugs, the hush money, the promise of fame. Cosby claiming he's a pretty decent reader of people. Ahead, reaction from Cosby accuser Janice Dickinson.

JANICE DICKINSON, COSBY ACCUSER: I keep reliving the same sick feeling, you know, in my soul.

COSTELLO: Plus, inside the mind of a killer. The parents of the Chattanooga shooter speak out saying their son was depressed and medicated. What it means for the investigation as five military families grieve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With everything going on he wanted to help out. And being in the Marine Corps is where he thought he could do the most good.

COSTELLO: Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

A defiant Donald Trump makes no apologies after igniting a political firestorm. For the very first time, the target of his attack, Senator John McCain, is breaking his silence. But here is where the controversy began. In Iowa when Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's not a war hero. He's a war hero. He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK. I hate to tell you.

FRANK LUNTZ, MODERATOR: He's a war hero.

TRUMP: He's a war hero -- LUNTZ: Five and a half years as a POW.

TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK. I hate to tell you that. He's a war hero because he was captured. OK. You can have -- and I believe perhaps he's a war hero.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: McCain spent more than five years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War after being shot down by enemy forces. He was tortured during that time.

Here's how the senator responded earlier today when asked whether he believes Trump owes him an apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: No, I don't think so. But I think he may owe an apology to the families and -- of those who have sacrificed in conflict and those who have undergone the prison experience in serving our country.

When Mr. Trump said that he prefers to be with people who were not captured, the great honor in my life was to serve in the company of heroes. I'm not an hero but those who were my senior ranking officers, people like Colonel Bud Day, Congressional Medal of Honor, and those who inspired us to do things that we otherwise wouldn't have been capable of doing. Those are the people that I think he owes an apology to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Any minute now we're expecting one of Trump's competitors, Jeb Bush, to address a crowd in Florida. Of course, one of the big questions, whether he'll weigh in on this controversy.

With me now, CNN's political director David Chalian.

Good morning. So Donald --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thank you for being with me. I appreciate it. Donald Trump let it rip on the "Today" show when challenged about all of this. I'd like to you listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, HOST, "TODAY" SHOW: Would you say that to John McCain's face?

TRUMP: No, as any of you know, Matt, see, that's what you don't do.

LAUER: No, no, I said -- I'm saying one exchange.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Excuse me, Matt, because you're the media and you do the same thing. The next sentence was he is a war hero. I said that but they never want to play it. And you don't want to play it.

LAUER: Well, why would you say the first thing?

TRUMP: But you started it off -- excuse me.

LAUER: Why would you say the first part?

TRUMP: Hey, Matt. Savannah started it off by saying I said that he wasn't a war hero. I didn't say that. And if you would have let it run just another three seconds, you would have said that I said very clearly he is a war hero. I have absolutely no problem with that. What I do have problems with is that he called 15,000 people that showed up for me to speak in Phoenix, he called them crazies because they want to stop illegal immigration. They were insulted.

LAUER: Let me --

TRUMP: And they were great Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

LAUER: Let me say for the record. Let me say for the record, we did run the other part of your comments, Mr. Trump. We did run the part where you said he is a war hero. So please don't say that we didn't because we did.

TRUMP: Well, then why did -- why did Savannah start off by saying I said that he was not a war hero? I never said that. I said he was a war hero, Matt. So you misrepresent just like everybody else.

I do have a problem with what he's doing on the border. He's terrible. And I do have a problem with the fact -- with the illegal immigration is a disaster. And he's doing a horrible job with the vets.

Matt, I see the vets. They come to me. These are powerful, wonderful people and they're crying. They don't know what to do. They're lost because of what we're doing. Frankly, illegal immigrants get treated better than many of our vets. It's a disgrace what's happening to this company.

LAUER: One little portion --

TRUMP: And John McCain has done nothing about it but talk.

LAUER: The one portion where you said at the end of one comment, I like people who weren't captured. OK. Let me just highlight that moment for a second. If you're elected president, you'll be commander-in-chief of this country. And they've got about 10,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. About 3500 serving in Iraq. They face danger on a daily basis, Donald. And they face capture on a daily basis.

[10:05:07] TRUMP: I agree.

LAUER: Do you think you have sent the wrong message to those people that if they're captured somehow Donald Trump, the commander-in-chief, is not in favor of them?

TRUMP: I don't think so. I think this -- I do also respect greatly people that aren't captured. Nobody talks about them. We talk about John McCain and I think it's great and he is a very brave man and all of that but we don't talk about the people that weren't captured. And that's what I was trying to refer to. And I think I did.

And by the way, if you see the news conference right afterwards, a few minutes afterwards, everything was perfect. I never even thought this would be an issue. My opponents have brought it up. These are guys that have zero in the polls. And by the way, you said that I said I'm doing well. I'm not saying I'm doing well. The polls are saying I'm doing well, Matt. When you introduced me, it was said that I said I'm doing well. I didn't say that. The polls have me leading.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, David Chalian. You've been covering politics a long, long time. What do you make of this?

CHALIAN: Well, first of all, what you saw right there, that's classic Donald Trump, and that combative interview taking on the media, Carol, that's part of the fuel of his rise. I mean, that is part of the appeal that the segment of the Republican nominating electorate that is supporting Donald Trump, that has rocketed him to the top of the polls, that's what they like, this brash talk. He doesn't sound like your typical politician. So that plays right into Trump's wheelhouse.

COSTELLO: So -- but, you know, there are some places you just don't go and you just don't go anywhere near what approaches criticism of veterans of war, but he did. So will he pay for that?

CHALIAN: He did. And listen, you can parse his exact words as he was trying to do there with Matt Lauer, but obviously he was questioning John McCain's war hero status, right? And so what I find fascinating about what happened over the weekend is that Donald Trump crossed to this place that most people don't normally go, and the entire Republican establishment pounced. They were waiting for a John McCain misstep, not just his opponents, but the Republican National Committee who's sort of like the neutral arbiter inside the Republican nomination contest, right?

They don't -- they don't pick a candidate of their own in this race, and even they sort of put their thumbs on the scale and called it out of bounds. So Donald Trump, in sort of doing this, the wing of the party, the establishment wing that is very, very concerned about Trump's candidacy doesn't know quite how to deal with it, is concerned what it's doing for the overall party brand, they pounced.

Now Trump supporters, Carol, like I said, I don't know that this is actually going to turn them off. I think sort of taking on the press in this way and being brash like this is really part of the appeal. COSTELLO: All right. Well, thanks so much, David Chalian, for your

insight this morning.

We should point out that Donald Trump received not one, but five deferments that kept him from serving in Vietnam. That's according to the Smoking Gun which obtained selective service records for Trump back in 2011. Now one of the deferments was a medical release which stemmed from a foot problem. Apparently has some sort of bone spur in his foot.

Let's bring in someone who supports Donald Trump, Robert Kiger. He's with the Citizens for Restoring USA.

So do you still support Donald Trump this morning?

ROBERT KIGER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Good morning, Carol. Nice to be back with you. Absolutely, I still support Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: Why?

KIGER: You know, Donald -- Donald Trump, listen, I liken him as the Uber of the GOP. Listen, the establishment taxi cab drivers and taxi cab companies absolutely hate Uber. The establishment GOP, the establishment Republicans hate Donald Trump for the exact same reason. So I -- listen, PC is gone completely and out of control in this country.

COSTELLO: OK.

KIGER: And I suggest to you --

COSTELLO: So let's talk about political correctness --

KIGER: You know, we need --

COSTELLO: Robert, let's talk about political correctness.

KIGER: OK.

COSTELLO: Because he did appear to be criticizing John McCain for his service in Vietnam, and, you know, when Trump said he's a war hero because he was captured. OK, I believe perhaps he's a war hero. Why even go there? Should he have gone there?

KIGER: Listen, last week when you and I spoke, you were saying he shouldn't have gone there about the illegal immigrants, and if it rips the scab off some wounds to talk more about veterans' affairs, how terribly these veterans are being treated in this country, so be it. We've got to cowboy up and quit worrying about these tiny things.

[10:09:57] PC has gone out of control. Martin O'Malley a couple of days ago said black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter. All lives matter. And everybody blew up. It was a terrible, terrible thing. And he caved in. He apologized. That's crazy. All lives do matter. White, black, brown, yellow, it doesn't matter.

COSTELLO: You're right, that did happen to Martin O'Malley and you have it exactly right.

OK. So in the end, though, Robert, it comes down to what you're going to do about problems. So Donald Trump says, hey, we have to do something for the veterans but he wrote an op-ed in "USA Today," it's in the paper this morning, and he says he donated $1 million to build this war memorial and he also appeared in a parade for veterans in 1995. That's the extent of what Donald Trump has done for veterans.

Is that really enough? Does he have -- I mean, is he right to criticize John McCain when that's the extent to which he's gone to help veterans in this country?

KIGER: I think those two things that you just said are two more things than John McCain has done for veterans. I don't know anything that John McCain --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Oh, come on, Robert, really?

KIGER: I don't know --

COSTELLO: Robert, let's just focus on what Donald Trump has done.

KIGER: OK. OK. But I don't know anything that John McCain has done either, at least Donald Trump helped raise $1 million to build this memorial. You know, and as commander in chief --

COSTELLO: He's not running against John McCain. John McCain is not running for president.

KIGER: Understood.

COSTELLO: So let's go back --

KIGER: As commander --

COSTELLO: And Donald Trump is. So what is he going to do for veterans? He says he's going to build all new hospitals. I think that's one of the things he said.

KIGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: But you know that's harder than just saying it, right? So what has he done and in the end doesn't it come down to issues?

KIGER: Absolutely it comes down to issues, and I wish we would get back to that. This presidency is about competency, and American people, let me tell you something, they love his bluntness. They need some truth, and he's not being controlled by any political --

COSTELLO: Now I get that. I get that, Robert. When we run around calling people dummies and they call you an idiot back, it's just so childish. Doesn't it come down to I know you are but what am I or what are you, or whatever children say when they call each other names? KIGER: Listen, Dana Milbank of "The Washington Post" called Donald

Trump a fraud and a dirty rotten pig. Where is the civility in that? There's all kinds of -- you can talk about it on both sides of the spectrum. If Donald Trump calls --

COSTELLO: But Donald Trump is running for president of the United States.

KIGER: I understand that. But listen, Donald Trump is Donald Trump. I'm not going to change him, you're not going to change him, and the American people are liking the truth and honesty and the clean talk that Donald Trump is portraying.

You know what? Last week when you and I talked, you said that his approval rating was terrible, 23 percent. It's now at 57 percent. I said, you know, wait a few days because it's going to increase, and you know what? Guess what. It did. It's now at 57 percent. I bet if you take a poll in a couple of days in Iowa whereby he is right now second behind Scott Walker, it will be better.

COSTELLO: You could be right.

KIGER: I'll make a prediction.

COSTELLO: You could absolutely be right.

KIGER: It'll be better.

COSTELLO: OK. OK. We have a bet.

Robert Kiger, thanks so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

KIGER: Dinner next time I'm in Atlanta.

COSTELLO: I'll take you up on that. A deposition --

KIGER: OK. Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

A deposition exposes even more sordid details about Bill Cosby. How he paid off women, hiding sex from his wife, and claiming he could read women's sexual cues.

Up next accuser Janice Dickinson gives us her reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:18:37] COSTELLO: Bill Cosby in his own words. New graphic details surrounding his rape allegations, this time coming from the comedian himself. In a bombshell deposition, Cosby admits to affairs with at least five different women. He talks about giving the women drugs before sex and the lies he told to keep his wife, who he refers to as Mrs. Cosby, in the dark.

Cosby answered questions as part of a 2005 lawsuit that Andrea Constand brought against him for allegedly drugging and sexual assaulting her. When asked if an encounter with Constand was consensual, Cosby explained how he used nonverbal cues to determine that she welcomed sex saying, quote, "I walk her out. She does not look angry. She does not say to me, don't ever do that again. She doesn't walk out with an attitude or a huff because I think I'm a pretty decent reader of people and their emotions in these romantic sexual things, whatever you want to call them."

Fredricka Whitfield spoke with another Cosby accuser, Janice Dickinson, last night and Fredricka joins me with more on that.

Good morning, Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good to see you, Carol. So supermodel Janice Dickinson tells me that her wounds are deep, made even more painful after reading parts of Cosby's deposition. She feels right now a range of emotions from anger to vindication.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Did reading the details of this deposition or that knowing that it's now been unsealed and many are reading through it, did that also mean that it's been an emotional journey for you just within the past 24 hours?

[10:20:11] DICKINSON: Yes, absolutely. There's no doubt about it. There's no way to put into words the depth of misery, pain, and humiliation that I have -- that I and the other women and all women and men that have gone through unconsented -- nonconsensual drugs and rape. It altered my behavior. My family has been embarrassed and humiliated.

WHITFIELD: Has reading this deposition in any way kind of reopened wounds for you? Has it given you a better recollection of what your account has been about what happened back in 1982?

DICKINSON: There's no words to even -- I'm angry. I'm confused. I don't have any healing yet that's taken place. I -- the nightmares that occur every night, you know, the sense memory, the taste, you know, and the cadence of these unsealed court records or these sealed court records that have just been made public have just got me really -- I'm really upset.

WHITFIELD: Explain to me how this has further upset you because I remember last December you telling me, describing back in 1982 you were in a hotel room. You went to his room willingly and that you say that he gave you some sort of drug, and when you woke up, your account was you were in pain and you were certain that he raped you.

When you read through this deposition now and read that he said he pursued young women for sex and that there were Quaaludes involved. How does that help your account? How does it change your account? Does it add more details for you?

DICKINSON: It just -- I keep reliving the same sick -- the same sick feeling, you know, in my soul and in my body. The memories are still there, and every time I think about it and I hear new information I still -- it still takes me back to that actual night like it happened yesterday. It's back in 1982 and it sickens me, but I have to be strong. I have to be strong for my -- you know, our daughters, our sisters, our mothers, our aunts, our cousins, I have to be strong for women.

I have to do this. It's the right thing to do. The court of public opinion now believes what happened. I mean, all these women were telling the same story again and again. You know, underage women. No one gave this monster permission, I promise you. I didn't give him permission. I can only speak for myself.

WHITFIELD: Because that is a word that he uses in this deposition, that it was consensual.

DICKINSON: I don't believe that, Fredricka. I do not believe that at all ever. I will never believe that. I can only speak with what happened to me. I did not consent to having consensual sex. How could I? I was drugged.

WHITFIELD: And I remember you telling me that you felt there were a lot of people who doubted your story, whether it was then back in the '80s and then even along the years, but now with this deposition being revealed, the deposition taken 10 years ago, how does this in your view validate the story that you've been telling and that of other women?

DICKINSON: I don't know how that works in a courtroom. I don't feel any validation. I won't feel validated until Cosby and to the known women and the yet to be known women get an apology to each and every one of us, to myself and to each and every one of us, and that this mass serial rapist be put in jail for his crimes against humanity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[10:25:11] WHITFIELD: And it's important to note that Bill Cosby has denied Janice Dickinson's allegations, and there are no criminal charges against him as it pertains to Dickinson. The statute of limitation has run out.

Meantime, Dickinson does have an ongoing defamation lawsuit against Cosby in large part because attorneys representing Cosby said her story was, quote-unquote, "a lie," and she says it has cost her her reputation, it has cost her work, and humiliation -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Fredricka Whitfield, many thanks to you. I appreciate it.

Looks like Donald Trump doesn't do apologies. The presidential candidate has had every chance to apologize for what he said about John McCain, but he will not do it. Could that actually help him, though? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)