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Sanctuary Cities Under Attack; Cosby Show Actor: "Of Course Bill Cosby is Guilty". Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 15, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He did not have missteps. He's got a solid team around him. He's an actual real Republican candidate running for president and people are going to respond to people like that.

I think there's plenty of options and I think that first what you saw is people said, Donald Trump's beneath me. I'm not going to get into a Twitter war with Donald Trump. And now all the campaigns that I've been talking with are saying, we're going to have to engage him at a bare minimum and we're going to try to get rid of him as quick as we can. They seem to all be united on that because, guess what, all of them cannot stands Donald Trump when many of these candidates actually like each other personally. Rubio likes Jeb Bush, for example. They're - they're - they can be friendly and cordial. Donald Trump is not going to play nice with any of these guys.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Guys, we're out of time. Paul, we owe you one.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's fine. No, just put - put more Trump on. I don't have to say anything. Trump makes the case for the Democrats better than anybody.

CAMEROTA: I think you're just enjoying this at this point.

Paul Begala, Ben Ferguson, thank you.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: For all your political news, make sure you go to cnnpolitics.com.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sanctuary cities, they are in the news. People believe they are the problem. That's why this beautiful young woman, Katie Steinle, was just killed in San Francisco. What is the reality? Why do they exist? And what do they really say about the immigration system? We're going to bring someone in who had experience working with them on the federal level. You get the truth ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:11] CAMEROTA: Time now for the five things to know for your NEW DAY.

President Obama trying to sell Congress and U.S. allies on the landmark nuclear agreement with Iran. The president will hold an afternoon news conference on the deal.

And newly released video shows the precise moment Mexican drug lord "El Chapo" Guzman escaped from his prison cell. He can be seen pacing before stepping into a bathroom stall and vanishing.

President Obama calling for radical changes to the justice system. He wants sentences for non-violent criminals reduced and solitary confinement reconsidered.

A new national poll shows Donald Trump at the top of the Republican presidential pack. A "USA Today"/Suffolk University poll shows him edging out Jeb Bush, but losing head to head against Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

NASA expected to release up close images of Pluto today beamed back from the New Horizon space probe following its historic fly-by of the dwarf planet. The mission covering 3 billion miles over the last nine years.

For more on the five things to know, go to newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Chris.

CUOMO: Sanctuary cities under fire following the shooting death of Katie Steinle on a San Francisco pier. Are these laws a public safety risk? Why do they exist? We have a former federal immigration chief here to help you relieve yourself of the hype in the air.

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[08:40:32] CUOMO: The shooting death of Kate Steinle by an undocumented immigrant in San Francisco is igniting a debate over sanctuary cities. They protect undocumented immigrants from deportation in certain instances and some say, as a result, they endanger public safety. So what is the reality?

We have someone who worked with them well, who understands the law and their formation. His name is John Torres. He's former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as I.C.E. He's worked on countless immigration cases within these cities.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Why did these cities come into existence? Why were these laws necessary?

JOHN TORRES, FMR. I.C.E. ACTING DIRECTOR: Well, some of the local jurisdictions wanted people with no status to come forward to be able to report crimes. And so that's understandable if you have someone who's afraid to report a domestic violence crime for example or someone who's afraid to report a murder even because they have no status. There's a fear in the community that they're going to be turned over for deportation. So that's really how - how they started.

CUOMO: So part of this was about community policing. And the criticism is, you've made your neighborhoods less safe because you don't help I.C.E. enough. But according to the American Immigration Council, do you agree that that the opposite is true and that crime experts, including hundreds of local police officers, have found that cities with community policing policies, as a result of these local laws, wind up working more closely with DHS and have more actual criminals in custody?

TORRES: And that's what I've seen throughout my career over the years is you have a variation of these types of agreements in different cities. They're not most - for the most part, they're not all or nothing. You don't see a law enforcement jurisdiction saying we can't cooperate with you at all. Usually we'll sit down, have a discussion with them. We'll do a risk assessment based on what we've seen in that popular community. Obviously, it's different on the border than what you may see in New York City.

CUOMO: Right.

TORRES: But then we'll work together to focus on the most egregious violators.

CUOMO: The critics really came up with the moniker of sanctuary city. Do you think that is a fair definition, meaning that any undocumented or illegal immigrant in a sanctuary city doesn't have to fear any type of detection, any type of law action against them?

TORRES: Well, from the aspect of perception, if the perception is that you have no fear, then, you know, we've heard this a million times, then the perception becomes the reality.

CUOMO: But - but in your practice of what they do in these jurisdictions, is it a free pass?

TORRES: No, it is not a free pass. There are a number of people that get transferred over to I.C.E. from different jurisdictions. But, unfortunately, in some of those instances too where I've worked with police chiefs and sheriffs, they said, hey, look, I've got to work with you, we've got to set this agreement, we don't want any publicity, we don't want it to be really known that we're cooperating with you and we have to figure out some sort of work-around agreement.

CUOMO: Now let's talk about what the reasons are for that. Many people think, well, if you came here and over stayed, then you're illegal. Now that's a civil violation. You had the local municipalities saying that I.C.E. was asking them to hold people beyond the term that they could for commission of a crime. Because it was a civil violation, they were getting sued, they were incurring a lot of expense and that's what garnered this disconnect between the federal system and the state system and it still needs to be fixed. Fair assessment?

TORRES: That is a fair assessment and that has been the practice over the years with what's called a detainer. I.C.E. will issue a detainer and say, can you please hold this person that I.C.E. is interested in for up to 48 hours. What I.C.E. is now transferring over to, they're transitioning to a program where they're asking for notification in advance so that these jurisdictions don't have to hold them. CUOMO: Do you think San Francisco did the wrong thing here with

respect to the detainer they were issued?

TORRES: I really do think they did the wrong thing as a city. My understanding is there are limitations on that particular sheriff and what he could do and what he can't do. But ultimately here, the goal is public safety, community safety, making your community safer. And with this particular person, he's been in and out of prison for the last 25 years of his life. We're not talking about someone who is coming here to make a better life for themselves. We're talking about someone who is a threat to the community.

CUOMO: So, fair point, San Francisco wasn't making it easy enough. But also fair point that this system doesn't work and I.C.E. has to figure out how to make its case more quickly so that they're not asking municipalities to hold people when the underlying criminal charge, I know, is gone, and that means you're going to offend their Fourth Amendment rights.

[08:45:10] TORRES: There's definitely room across the board for everyone to come together and find a more common ground here to make the community safer.

CUOMO: All right. I appreciate this, Mr. Torres, because you did the job and you say you have mixed feelings about sanctuary cities, but it's complex. And too many on the partisan sides of politics want to make it simple for their own purposes. So thank you for helping us spell it out this morning. Appreciate it.

TORRES: My pleasure.

CUOMO: So what do you think now? Now that you've heard from somebody who actually worked in this area of the law and understands to complexities of this. Please tweet away or use the #newdaycnn or go to facebook.com/newday.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right. He calls Bill Cosby his idol. But now, a former actor on "The Cosby Show" has written a powerful article. How does he feel today about Bill Cosby? Joseph C. Phillips joins us next.

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CAMEROTA: A former actor on "The Cosby Show" now speaking out about Bill Cosby. Joseph C. Phillips says Bill Cosby was his idol whom he loved and owed his career to, but those feelings today are changing.

Joining us now is Joseph C. Phillips who played the husband of character Denise Huxtable for several seasons on "The Cosby Show."

[08:50:04] Joseph, thanks so much for being here.

JOSEPH C. PHILLIPS, ACTOR: Hi. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: You've just written an article for your website and it is called, "Of Course Bill Cosby is Guilty." What makes you say that?

PHILLIPS: Yeah, well, the article is not so much about that, but about my -- it's kind of my story in this entire sordid episode and the title was to grab people's attention, obviously.

And it is grabby, because - I mean, the reason it's grabby is because you say - I mean the title says - "Of Course Bill Cosby is Guilty," but this is a man whom you loved, who you respected.

PHILLIPS: I absolutely did. You have to understand, a lot of people respect him. He has fans all over the world. When I first met Bill Cosby, I wanted to hug him. After my father, this was the man that I aspired to be. Being on the show with him was an incredible experience for that reason. So this episode was jarring and jolting, and I think it was for so many Americans.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Even people who didn't know him.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And I want to get to what he was like on the set in one second, because you write here, "The Cos was a ladies man, but was also a good father and husband, devoted to his wife and children." Huh?

PHILLIPS: Yes. I think that was some clunky writing on my part. I think what I was --

CAMEROTA: But you saw things on the set that made you think that he might not be a great husband.

PHILLIPS: I didn't really see anything - I don't think that anyone -- Well, I think few people saw anything. It was just -- like the air, you just accepted, you just knew that it was happening. You didn't necessarily see it, like the air, but you knew it was there.

CAMEROTA: But when you say "it was happening," what do you mean?

PHILLIPS: I mean that Bill - And again, I want to make clear that I didn't see anything. This was gossip that he was playing around.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PHILLIPS: But I never saw. People talked and so it was just one of those things that you knew and just went on with life.

CAMEROTA: But playing around is very different than rape.

PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. Yes.

CAMEROTA: And so now, you have worked your way around -- What allowed you to finally believe that it may be possible that he was capable of sexual assault?

PHILLIPS: Well, I want to say two things. The first is that particularly back then at 28 years old and everything changing in my life -- and still, there's a part of me today that wonders about men who have incredible fame, power, money and the number of women that approach them and offer themselves. I was --

CAMEROTA: You saw that?

PHILLIPS: Well, it happened to me. I was low man on the totem poll on "The Cosby Show" and overnight there were women coming out of the woodwork. I was single, so it's a bit different. But I began to wonder, can any man say no every single time? So I think I gave him a pass on that.

Now flash forward many years. I think, like a lot of people, I was really giving Bill the benefit of the doubt. This was not the man that I knew. This is not the man that I worked with. He may have had other faults, but he certainly was not drugging people and raping them. And then I had a conversation with an old friend. Bumped into her, I hadn't talked to her in a couple of years. I just thought, hey, he used to be like your mentor or something --

CAMEROTA: Was she an actress?

PHILLIPS: Yeah. And I don't want to say too much about her.

CAMEROTA: Sure. So he was a mentor to her?

PHILLIPS: Yes, and -

CAMEROTA: What did she say?

PHILLIPS: For two hours she sat in my car crying, telling me her story, all of the details. And at that moment, something changed for me. She turned to me and she said -- she wiped her face and she said, do you believe me? And I said, yes, I believe you. And that was the change. And I had to look with sober eyes at what was going on.

CAMEROTA: Your fellow actor, Whoopi Goldberg, it has taken her a notably long time to come around, even on the air, to say that it's possible that Bill Cosby might be capable of these things.

PHILLIPS: Well, listen, this was America's dad. He was not just black America's father. He was America's father. People in this country, and I think all over the world, love this man, as I say I love him and it's very difficult to wrap your mind around the dark side that we're beginning to see.

CAMEROTA: So let me play for you what Whoopi Goldberg said yesterday on "The View" that was very different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:54:55] WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You've got a serial rapist. You have a serial rapist. He's been on the streets for 30 years. I have to say, I thought that, yes, here's all the information, take his [EXPLETIVE DELETED] to jail. I find out that -- from you -- that that's not possible. So I can't say anymore "innocent until proven guilty." Can't say that anymore because there's no way to prove it. We are the only proof that folks have. We are the only backup they have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, do you agree with her?

PHILLIPS: Well, I don't know the information that she had. I'll say this, that behaviors demand consequences. If he's guilty, there should be consequences. I don't know what those consequences are. It's not up to me to give them out, say what they are. I think that --

CAMEROTA: But you think that he should -- That something should happen to him?

PHILLIPS: I think that he is suffering consequences right now. This is a man that was beloved by everyone, who made his life in front of people with adulation and now he is a pariah, now he is a public disgrace. He's 78 years old. He doesn't have time to erase and spruce up his legacy. His legacy is gone forever. I think that's consequences. I'm not saying it's enough. People might want more. But - you know.

CAMEROTA: We appreciate you sharing your feelings and how you've worked your way around to them. Joseph C. Phillips, thanks so much for coming on NEW DAY.

PHILLIPS: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: NEWSROOM with Carol Costello will begin right after the break. See you tomorrow.

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