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Flag Removal Bill; Terror Plots Thwarted; Baltimore Police Commissioner Fired; Baby Doe Mystery. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 9, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:26] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here you go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here.

Big news today, the confederate flag is coming down. Right now it is still padlocked, it is still flying above the capital grounds there in Columbia, South Carolina. But a bill to remove it is now on the way to the governor's desk. It is expected to be signed in the next two hours, so stay turned for that.

The fight to bring down what so many in this country refer to as a symbol of hate has been embroiled for decades, but the racist massacre at Charleston's Mother Emanuel Church last month by a mass murder, who embraced this symbol, that has really magnified this controversy.

And last night, after many, many hours of debate in South Carolina's house of representatives there on the floor, Republican Representative Jenny Horne, the delegate from South - from Charleston, specifically, she stepped up to the podium, herself a descendent of the president of the confederacy, of Jefferson Davis himself, her emotional words striking a chord on the chamber floor and bringing a shift in the deeply divided debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNY HORNE (R), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: If we amend this bill, we are telling the people of Charleston, we don't care about you. We do not care that someone used this symbol of hate to slay eight innocent people who are worshipping their god.

Last night was the three-week anniversary of the massacre in Charleston. And it was noted on the floor after my remarks. And I have to tell you that it's the least that we can do as a body.

If you would have asked me last year if we would ever remove the flag from the statehouse grounds in my lifetime, I would have said there's no way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What a picture there, an emotional state delegate. And there it is, flying over your left shoulder. Nick Valencia, you've been all over this there in Columbia, at the state capital. All right, so, what, t-minus two hours until Governor Nikki Haley signs this thing or what?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Governor Nikki Haley is expected to sign this legislation after an exhaustive debate yesterday, 13 hours those house lawmakers talked about this. At times it was contentions, very emotional. And after 1:00 a.m., that's when they finally got it done by a very divisive margin, voting to permanently remove this confederate flag here that's waving right behind me. A flag, Brooke, that's been on the state grounds of the capital since 1961. And about 15 years ago, another contentious debate to move that off the capital into the - really more into the public eye, right by a confederate soldier's museum. Part of the - memorial, I should say.

Part of the joint proposal resolution was an agreement that after Nikki Haley signs this at 4:00 p.m., within 24 hours, the flag would be permanently removed. What happens after that, we are understanding is at 10:00 a.m. on Friday is when a ceremony will take place here on the state grounds. Lots of lawmakers have already told me that they are planning on showing up. Crowds, you can expect them to show up as well. And then it will make its way a few blocks away from where I'm standing to the Confederate Relic Museum where it will say.

It has been a deeply contentious issue, a divisive issue in this community, and a lot of people are unwilling to let this - let this go easily. I've spoken to dozens of people since I've been here since Sunday and there's a lot that have told me that this is not only a symbol of southern pride, southern heritage, that it represents their ancestors fighting what they call an army of invaders from the north back during the Civil War time. People here taking this to heart, really emotional about it. And if I just move out of the way here, you can see here, even after this all went down last night, people are still unwilling to let it go. That one individual there has been there since early this morning. He's now joined by a handful of others. But the majority of those that have been here, Brooke, it is - it is a day - a monumental day, an historic day and a day that's finally come for so many people.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nick Valencia, thank you so much. And keep it here, of course, on CNN as we'll be talking about and hopefully showing you Governor Nikki Haley signing that bill into law. Thank you, Nick.

Now to another developing story we're following here at CNN. Law enforcement officials are telling us that in the last two weeks specifically they have derailed multiple terror threats to the United States. Some of them tied to the July 4th holiday.

So let me bring in our CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, who, Jim, we talked about this prior to the holiday and, you know, it was made crystal clear, no specific threats ahead of the holiday weekend, and now this. What do you know?

[14:05:09] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this basically firms up, in a way justifies to some degree, that alarm that we heard in those warnings before the July 4th weekend. And you - we heard this a bit from the FBI director yesterday on The Hill. But then following up today we were able to learn more that of the number of plots that have been thwarted in the last couple of weeks, that several of them, or at least some of them, were tied to the July 4th holiday weekend.

What kind of plots? Where were they? I'm told that they were at locations coast to coast and I'm also told that fitting with ISIS' encouragement of these kinds of attacks, that they were relatively unsophisticated, involving guns, knives, other weapons because this is a group that is not as interested as al Qaeda in the old days with big, spectacular, complicated attacks. They're - their call to arms to support around the world, including the U.S., has basically said, attack anywhere you can in any way you can. That any attack has value. And the attacks that have been thwarted, I'm told by U.S. officials, fall into that category. Relatively unambitious, but still deadly.

BALDWIN: So just to follow up with you on that, are these, of these plots that were thwarted, are these, you know, American individuals inspired by, you know, ISIS propaganda online? Is that - is that more or less the types of plots?

SCIUTTO: It's more than inspired, less than directed.

BALDWIN: OK.

SCIUTTO: So law enforcement officials are saying, not directed in the sense where someone overseas would say go attack this target on this particular date, but more than inspired. They use the word enabled. In other words, you will recruit sympathizers here, usually online. You'll encourage them to attack. You might give them a target list or a kind of target, but you're not holding their hand up until the point when they carry out the attack.

And that has enormous advantages because the less direction you have in that sense, the harder it is to break up the plot because direction involves a lot of communication, time in terms of preparation, a lot of things you have to gather together. That gives law enforcement more time to catch these things in advance. But if - but if it's more kind of ad hoc, that's more difficult to block and that's one of the many challenges they're facing now.

Another one, Brooke, we talked about this before, is that they're going dark in their communications between sympathizers here and recruiters overseas. And when they're going dark, through encrypted communications, that means those communications cannot be intercepted in advance either.

BALDWIN: Jim Sciutto, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, a major shakeup at the top of the Baltimore Police Department. The police commissioner there, Anthony Batts, fired. Why some in the community are concerned about the interim replacement. We'll talk to Baltimore native and former Congressman Kweisi Mfume, coming up next. Also ahead, Donald Trump pushing back against reports that the former chairman of the Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus, told him to tone down some of his talk on immigration. CNN just got off the phone with the billionaire candidate. You will hear what Trump had to say about that conversation with the RNC chairman.

And who is this little girl? The mystery deepens surrounding Baby Doe, is what she's being referred to, in Boston. Could this computer- generated image help solve the case? Stay here.

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[14:12:30] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In Baltimore, the police commissioner there has been fired. He is off the job three months after the arrest of Freddie Gray, who suffered fatal injuries in police custody. Two months and two weeks after the riots over his death, the firing also follows Baltimore's deadliest month since 1972 that happened this past May and it comes mere hours after the release of a police union report blasting Anthony Batts' lack of leadership during those riots. When asked about the timing of her decision to let Batts go, the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE (D), BALTIMORE: It happened on the same day, but I don't think many who know me would suggest that I would do anything to placate the (INAUDIBLE).

It is clear that the focus has been too much on the leadership of the department and not enough on the crime fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The mayor had been standing by the now former commissioner all through the crisis in Baltimore. However, two anonymous Baltimore police officers told me last month Batts was not standing by his men and women in blue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Do you feel like the police commissioner, Anthony Batts, has your backs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It's all political agenda.

BALDWIN: Commissioner Batts just recently spoke to you all essentially saying, I think I let you guys down. Let me quote him. "People think we're down. People are giving up on us. I mean this with all my heart, we need to show how f'ing good we are. I stand ready to lead you out of this." Do you trust the commissioner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trust is one thing. The thing of it is, you should have never led us into it. What needs to be instituted in the leader is, you have to be in the front line. And the whole command set-up (ph). This is where your leaders are. You don't sit inside of a command center and command things over the radio. Things don't work like that, you know, and it's - if you want to be a leader, you need to be a leader. To gain respect of your troops, you need to show that you're the first one to be able to step up and do things. And if you're not, then you're not a leader. Just because you collect the paycheck and you're wearing that insignia on your collar and everybody has to salute you and call you sir because that's your rank doesn't make you a leader.

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[14:15:07] BALDWIN: With me now, former Maryland Congressman Kweisi Mfume, who served five terms. He's also a former CEO and president of the NAACP. He joins me from Baltimore.

Congressman, wonderful seeing you again.

KWEISI MFUME, FORMER MARYLAND CONGRESSMAN: Thank you very much, Brooke. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Is Batts firing the right move for Baltimore?

MFUME: I think only time is going to tell. You know, I've seen commissioners come and go in this city. They all seem to be the victim of what it is that they're trying to bring under control, which is crime. And I think crime overtook this commissioner and I think more than anything else he became the center of the discussion instead of the crime itself.

I like Anthony Batts. He's a decent guy. His heart's in the right place. And he had a lot of difficulty trying to win the hearts and minds of a lot of the rank and file. And so whether it was a Freddie Gray incident or the spike in violent crimes and murders that took place, I think the cumulative effect put him so much in the spotlight that it made it easier for him to be let go. But let me tell you, if the crime doesn't go down and the murders don't go down, all of this is academic.

I'll give you an example. I've been around this town a long time, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I know you have.

MFUME: I was -- six months after you were born, I was raising my hand to take an oath of office to be at the city council. This issue was the issue then and there have been 10 police commissioners since then. We are still almost where we were because the root of the matter is multifaceted. And so while I hope that the new commissioner coming in is able to win the hearts and minds of the command staff and the rank and file and I hope that crime goes down, I know that it won't until communities begin to cooperate with police and until police begin to respect the inhabitants of communities. There's got to be leadership. It's got to be bold. The faith-based community and men's group that are on the street are not enough. They need city hall and everybody else standing with them, going through the process of trying to win this war, win this battle one block at a time. Otherwise, we're not going to get much further.

And if I might just take one quick second to say, the biggest issue here is what's going to happen in the future. Unless we are working with those who are two, three, four, and five years of age, instilling values, a sanctity of life, a respect for their elderly, a love for their country and an appreciation of all that have come before them, we're going to create a valueless generation who will then in turn have us back out here, maybe not you and maybe not me, but 20 years later from now, the same conversation occurring.

BALDWIN: I know you have such this rich perspective knowing and loving this city for as many years as you had and you talk about the future and the root of the problem. But in the immediate situation, let me first just quote Batts in "The Baltimore Sun." Quote, "I've been honored to serve the citizens and residents of Baltimore. I've been proud to be a police officer for this city."

You hear from critics, congressman, and they say, oh, Batts is just the fall guy for the mayor. That this is all politics at play. Even those two officers who spoke with me anonymously would agree with that. Is that there?

MFUME: Well, I think it's fair to probably assume that all police commissioners are fall guys. It's just, when does it catch up with you. And I think most go into the office knowing that one day, just like a baseball manager or a football coach, if things go wrong, you're the first one to go. So when the going gets tough, the tough gets going and we bring someone else in.

So I don't know if we can kind of just simply designate him as a fall guy because he did something, it's just that when things get out of hand like this, those of us who have been around for a while and watched elected office and elected officials know that somebody's head is going to roll. And in this instance, it really doesn't matter if the issue of violent crime and murder and homicide and rape and all the other things that are taking place don't get addressed. We've got to empower communities to help save themselves.

BALDWIN: A quick question. This interim police commissioner is white. The mayor is African-American, this city - the state's attorney is African-American. The city is 63 percent black. Do you - do you think the next commissioner should be black? Do you think that matters?

MFUME: No. No. And I think that's what's been the problem for so long. We need a black person for this or a white person for that or a Latino person for this. You know, I - we just need a good person who understands people, who can communicate, who is appreciated, who respects what they're doing and respects, in this instance, the community that they're serving. So race is not necessarily a predetermined of success. What's going to determine success, I think, is where the heart of the individual is, how do they reach out, how do they cooperate, how do they deal with short-term and long-term solutions and how do they avail themselves for the kind of scrutiny that will always come with the police commissioner's job.

[14:20:05] BALDWIN: Kweisi Mfume, thank you so much, as always. I really appreciate it.

MFUME: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, let me show you an image and ask you, who is this child? This little girl's body found near the Boston harbor. And despite this massive media campaign, millions and millions of clicks online, police say no one has come forward thus far claiming her. More on the strange case of "Baby Doe."

Also, what Donald Trump just told CNN about this phone conversation with RNC Chairman Reince Priebus. Was Trump told to tone it down? His side of the story, next.

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BALDWIN: A tremendous social media outpouring has come in from people all around the country. Forty-five million people all clicking on this little girl's picture, all trying to help law enforcement figure out who she is. Police, so far, just calling her "Baby Doe." They believe she's about three to four years old. This is a composite rendering of what they think she would look like. When she was found, she was wearing these polka dot leggings and had this zebra blanket wrapped around her. Her body was discovered June 25th along the shores of Deer Island in Boston Harbor stuffed inside a trash bag. And now investigators have released this new image with her little pierced ears hoping someone recognizes her.

[14:25:37] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL CONLEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, MASSACHUSETTS DISTRICT ATTORNEY: She was discarded by someone and, you know, the indignity of it has really struck a chord with all Bostonians and all New Englanders and we have tried very, very hard to identify who she is and how - how this could have come to pass that her - her remains would be left like this. Her body was examined by the Massachusetts medical examiner and at this point it had no - there was - there is no definitive cause of death. The body had no obvious signs of violent trauma. So we're looking at a possibility of a poisoning, could have been accidental, for example. I don't know the answer to that, but that's why we appeal to the caregivers, the parents, please step forward, clear your conscience. No child, no person, deserves to be discarded like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, so sad. Alexandra Field is with me on this and we're going to talk about the artist rendering in a second and how they even got there, but first to you.

I mean it's been two weeks. Do they have any leads?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you heard the district attorney say the indignity of this. The idea of a little girl in a trash bag, left on a shoreline, striking a chord with people in Boston and New England, but really it's gone so well beyond that, really across the country. You mentioned more than 45 million people have clicked on this image, looking at this young girl. And, of course, this has generated tips from really all over the

country. We're being told now by investigators that they've actually done welfare checks on more than two dozen children who could potentially match the description of this little girl, but that has brought them up short. They have not found a lead that is helping them to discover this four-year-old's identity, no matter how many of these leads they pursued. There were a lot of tips coming in suggesting that maybe this was a little girl - a three-year-old girl who went missing in West Virginia back in 2011. The police are now saying they have ruled that out.

And you heard that very impassioned plea to the caretaker or the parents to please come forward. The indignity not just of this girl being left in a trash bag, but of the fact that no one has come forward noticing that she is gone.

BALDWIN: No one.

FIELD: And it goes beyond this, because it isn't just about this one little girl. We're hearing from investigators really that there's so much urgency to identify her and to identify what happened because you don't know what other children could be exposed here.

BALDWIN: That's right, in that same house, under the same roof, with people who would dare do this to a little girl.

Alex Field, thank you very much.

And now I want to be - bring in Diana Trepkov. She is one of only 26 certified forensic artists in the world and she's with me now.

And, Diana, I see you brought in, what, a five-year-old's skull and an eye because you have this unique perspective. Explain to me how law enforcement has been able to take this body and create this facial reconstruction.

DIANA TREPKOV, CERTIFIED FORENSIC ARTIST: Hi.

First I want to say I'm really sorry for the baby being found in a garbage bag. My heart goes out to all the missing people and I'll do anything to help.

To explain about facial reconstruction on a five-year-old child's skull, the skull doesn't lie. It tells you everything you need to know. So for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, who did the facial reconstruction, they would place the face on the skull and it's all proportions.

I brought a prosthetic eye to show. So we would put the eyes in and then the nose, there's a mathematical procedure. And then the mouth, the same thing. So the face builds onto the skull.

BALDWIN: And it's like -

TREPKOV: It's like a puzzle and you put the pieces together. A puzzle - BALDWIN: How successful -- like of all of these renderings, how helpful are they in finding out who these young people - who these bodies are?

TREPKOV: It's successful and it's very accurate because a skull doesn't lie and the public needs an image, so we need something that's accurate and safe to put out for people to see. So we're protecting the dignity of the victim.

BALDWIN: What's the biggest challenge here, Diana?

TREPKOV: Identifying the little girl as soon as possible and bringing her to a safe place to rest. Making sure - because a skull is like a puzzle, it's putting in all of the pieces. So her features, her proportions will be correct. What they did is correct and it's just for the right person to see it, to trigger off something. And with social media, I have a feeling someone will come forward soon.

[14:29:58] BALDWIN: Let's hope so. As we mentioned, 45 million people clicking on this image. And I know you talk about how you yourself really forge a special connection with the victims you depict. I want you to explain to me how an image like this resonates with so many people.

TREPKOV: Yes.