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DR. DREW

Bill Cosby Admitted Getting Drugs with the Intention of Giving Them to Women for Sex; Drawing the Line Between Free Speech and Hate Speech; Ariana Grande Licking and Spitting on Donuts; Baby Yoga or Child Abuse?. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 8, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(21:00:14) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Bill Cosby, rapist, hypocrite. His most famous supporters are still defending him.

Plus, child abuse or yoga? The search is on for the mother and baby in this shocking viral video. It all starts right now with breaking news.

We know that Bill Cosby has admitted or had admitted to getting drugs with the intention of giving them to women for sex. Tonight, an accuser in that

case wants his entire deposition revealed so the public can examine this and we`re wondering what else might be exposed. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA BOWMAN, COSBY ACCUSER: I knew some way, some day, something would break and the truth would come out.

JOAN TARSHIS, COSBY ACCUSER: Finally, I mean, he lies, you know, constantly. And the fact that he finally -- he was forced into being

honest, and that it was released. That`s the shocking part.

BEVERLY JOHNSON, COSBY ACCUSER: We know these things are happening. We tried to give it a voice and we get shut down.

JANICE DICKENSON, COSBY ACCUSER: I`m very upset. And I`m embarrassed. Embarrassed for his fans that he has deceived for all of these years.

BOWMAN: It`s remarkable what he masterminded. It was decades of deceit and manipulation.

DICKENSON: I`ve been holding on to this since 1982. And I am just extremely upset. I do not feel vindicated.

JOHNSON: The truth has no expiration date on it. And the truth, somehow, finds its way to the light.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us, AnneElise Goetz, attorney; Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor on Pepperdine University. Segun Oduolowu, host of

"Wired In With Segun" podcast. Lisa Bloom joins us, attorney at Avo.com.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

Lisa, you are my first interest here, because I know you wanted to get him on the record. What do you expect to see in those depositions?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, AVVO.COM: In the deposition that`s just been released?

PINSKY: No, what more are we going to see? They`re asking for the entire --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: Well, here`s the problem, they`re probably not going to get it. Because I`ve read the entire several hundred pages court filed that were

released this week, and it only has little selections of the deposition. The entire transcript of the deposition is in the attorney`s custody, and

then there`s a confidentiality agreement around it.

PINSKY: But why thought there was confidentiality around all of it? And why would they have given us just pieces?

BLOOM: Well, it`s a different kind of confidentiality. The court sealed its file. When the AP made a motion, the court granted that unseals its

file, but that doesn`t apply to the attorneys and what attorneys have in their offices and files.

PINSKY: I`m confused. AnneElise, help me.

BLOOM: Sorry.

PINSKY: I`ve got two attorneys tonight, fortunately. What is she talking about?

ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: No, Lisa, nailed it. So what`s going on is you have two different kinds of privileges here. The attorney/client privilege

is what we actually going to see, which is what the attorney has in the file. The whole deposition, as Lisa was mentioning, and the likelihood of

us seeing that piece, it`s --

PINSKY: Now, wait, I understand attorney/client privilege is, that`s sacrosanct, but why does the deposition go into that kind of status?

BLOOM: It`s actually because of the confidentiality agreement that was signed when Andrea Constand settled her case. And everything would be

confidential. However, as you know, I represent Janice Dickenson. We can subpoena documents in that case because it`s an act of litigation. So we

may be able to get it, because we have the subpoena power.

PINSKY: Well, let me start with my original question, what do you expect is in there?

BLOOM: Oh, I expect a lot more.

PINSKY: Like what?

BLOOM: A lot more revelations. Because Bill Cosby has a problem when his under oath and an attorney like me or somebody else is asking him

questions. He actually has to answer the questions truthfully, right. It`s not like when journalists ask him questions and he gets to dodge --

PINSKY: Well, it seems like even in the deposition we have, there`s a lot of attorneys obfuscating and objecting.

BLOOM: Yes.

PINSKY: You don`t get a lot of the questions even answered there.

BLOOM: Yes. And that`s what they do. That`s what Bill Cosby`s --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: They, not you?

BLOOM: No, I don`t, actually. I don`t break the rules. I actually follow the rules in depositions. Most attorneys do.

PINSKY: So they broke the rules?

BLOOM: Bill Cosby`s attorneys clearly did not. And that`s why a motion was made to the court. You can`t coach a witness. You can`t testify for

them. You can`t make ridiculous objections. That`s why Andrea Constand`s attorneys made the motion. That`s what was in the court file and that`s

what was revealed.

PINSKY: What do you want to ask him?

BLOOM: I want to ask him, did you rape Janice Dickinson? Did you meet her in 1982? Did you drug her when she said she had menstrual cramps and you

gave her something? Did you know it was a sedative?

PINSKY: What did you think?

BLOOM: Why does she have your photographs if you didn`t meet her at that time?

PINSKY: What did you think when you read about the Quaaludes?

BLOOM: I thought, my God, here is confirmation, under oath, out of the mouth of Bill Cosby, that a significant part of the story of 47 women is

now true. And he can`t wiggle out from that. He can`t change it. His attorneys can`t explain it away.

And, by the way, it`s been 48 hours, no statement from Bill Cosby or anybody in his camp, explaining this, right? They came out very quickly

and called my client a liar when she came forward with her story back in November. But tick tock, we still have no statement from them.

PINSKY: Now, there are still people defending him. Whoopi Goldberg is now doubling down on her defense of Bill Cosby. Listen to what she said on

ABC`s "The View."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:05:08] WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST, THE VIEW: I say this because this is my opinion. And in America, still, I know it`s a shock, but you actually were

innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED HOST: Until proven guilty.

GOLDBERG: .until proven guilty. He has not been proven.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: It keeps going. Fans attacked Whoopi, sent her threatening e- mails. This is not okay, this mob mentality. I don`t care if you disagree with Whoopi or what. But, listen, she is standing firm. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOLDBERG: No one here thinks rape is good. No one here thinks rapists are fun. Nobody here thinks rape or hates women or any of that. So don`t come

after me like that because I`m sick of this bull. Here`s the bottom line for me, it`s my opinion. And the American courts agree with me, because

still, he has not been taken to jail or tried on anything. So back off me!

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, HOST OF "WIRED IN WITH SEGUN" PODCAST: Yes, this is where I`m actually going to jump on Whoopi. And I think what bothers the

American public, what bothers a lot of us, is that we feel a little bit to blame.

We confuse Bill Cosby, the man, with Cliff Huxtable, his character. And when we are like, Cliff Huxtable would never rape these women? But Bill

Cosby is just an actor. And the part he was playing on TV, that was TV. What he did off of TV is heinous and it`s monstrous and 47 women with the

same story can`t all be liars. And I`ve always said this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

If -- even if he only raped one, he`s still a rapist.

PINSKY: He`s a rapist, but not a serial rapist, which he might be if these allegations are true.

GOETZ: And I think that unfortunately what Whoopi is kind of hanging her hat on, is that because we haven`t seen this play out in the courts, it

didn`t happen. So the fact of the matter is --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: It won`t play out in the courts except with defamation. It won`t play.

GOETZ: Well, hopefully, Lisa can have her day in court. But the fact of the matter is that these are older cases and the statute of limitations has

run. So it`s not as though the courts have said, he`s not guilty. We don`t think there`s enough here. It`s, the statutes have run, we`re not

going to bring the charges. And when you have old evidence, when you have witnesses that -- when you have evidence that wasn`t brought into account

when the actual injury happened.

When you have witnesses that haven`t been prepped, it`s been a long time, years have gone by, it is harder for a prosecutor to make that case. It

does not mean it didn`t happen. It means it`s harder for the prosecutor to make the case.

PINSKY: And, Judy, I`ve been reading a lot lately about what`s called drug-facilitated sexual assault, which is what this is. It`s not a well-

studied category of behavior, but he does kind of fit a little bit of the pattern.

How do you understand men, if these allegations are true, what is it with a guy that would engage in this kind of behavior?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think it`s a little bit less outright than if you were just to sexually assault somebody without the

drugs? And so what that says to me is that there`s a little bit of manipulation that is involved in how Bill Cosby takes in his women.

I don`t know why he believed that he needed the manipulation. Because of his celebrity status, he might have been able to get lots of women to sleep

with him willingly? However --

PINSKY: Is he just into women that are asleep? There is that kind of like a fetish --

BLOOM: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: The creepy, dead body kind of necrophilia, I think?

PINSKY: It`s not necrophilia.

HO: Yes, that`s right.

PINSKY: It`s a fetish about women sleeping, right?

HO: Yes, we laugh about it, but we`ve actually interviewed somebody like this, I think, a long time ago on your show, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: Somebody who was really getting off, and the only way that he can actually have an orgasm is actually when somebody is asleep or unconscious.

And you know what, that goes back to low self-esteem. And I know that some people might say, well, Bill Cosby, he is who he is. Why would he have low

self-esteem?

Well, if he didn`t have low self-esteem, why would he be accused of all of these difficulties? Why would he have history with all these women? I

know that a lot of this is alleged, but at the same time, there are different stories coming out at the same time which we don`t know.

PINSKY: The other thing is the dominance.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: If someone`s incapacitated, there are issues of dominance.

And, Lisa, the other thing that kills me on this is how these women were treated when they stepped forward back in the day when they did report the

rape.

It`s such a moment in history, when women were told just to shut up, he`s an important man. How dare you. I mean, there is just something awful in

that moment of history.

BLOOM: You are so right. And listen, Bill Cosby and his team always say, it`s never been proved in court, and at the same time, he has to have spent

millions of dollars for his legal team to keep the courthouse door shut for women who have been trying to get him into court.

So my client, Janice Dickinson, for example, we file a defamation case after he re-victimized her by calling her a liar, publicly, and coming out

vilifying her, as he has done with several other accusers as well.

And now what do they do? He fails to show up for his deposition in our case, a couple of weeks ago. Well, now we know why, because he does so

poorly at depositions. And he tries to get the whole case thrown out so she can`t have her day in court. That`s what he does over and over again.

PINSKY: Next, we will continue the conversation and joined by one of Cosby`s alleged victims.

And later, caught on tape, the search is on for the woman that police say abused her baby. Warning, this is a tough video. It`s just very

unpleasant. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[21:13:59] UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It`s Bill Cosby`s own words that provide the strongest evidence so far for more than two

dozen women, alleging the 77-year-old comedian drugged and raped them.

PATTI MASTEN, COSBY ACCUSER: I don`t have any memory at all of what happened but I knew, I knew that I was brutally raped. I knew it.

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN`S "AC 360": But you do specifically remember sexual assault?

HEIDI THOMAS, COSBY ACCUSER: Oh, absolutely. That`s emblazoned in my memory.

MASTEN: Well, nobody is going to believe you. I suggest you shut your mouth.

COOPER: That`s what you were told?

MASTEN: That`s what I was told.

BOWMAN: I think we`re going to be heard now. And I think this is just the beginning.

MASTEN: He will definitely be known as the most prolific serial rapist in the United States of America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Cosby`s publicist has no comment, but listen to how Cosby responded back in May when he spoke to ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, ACCUSED RAPIST: This is a situation that`s unprecedented. My family, my friends. I have been in this business 52 years and I will --

I`ve never seen anything like this. And reality is the situation and I can`t speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:15:21] PINSKY: That`s for sure. Back with AnneElise, Judy, Segun, Lisa.

Judy, Cosby, is there any chance that, you know, there was sort of -- you know, this is back to what Elise and I were just talking about before the

break, which is how this is such a moment in history. There is another thing that you hear rumored back in the day, sort of a quid pro quo in how

women were treated.

He was always asking his women over, give them acting lessons. He would help them with their career, and then, OK, it`s time to go, I need payment.

And when payment wasn`t paid up, maybe you had a drinky, drinky-poo and that`s that.

HO: That`s right. I mean, reality is the situation. You heard Bill Cosby say. It doesn`t make any sense, anyway. I mean, this is the problem. He

really has not been able to really talk about the situation, that`s because he knows there`s something to hide. And for him, he may have justified at

the time thinking that he was taking something that was his anyway. Like payment.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Let`s try to -- we don`t know him, but what kind of thinking, what kind of personality construct would think like that? Certainly lack of

empathy.

HO: Lack of empathy, absolutely.

PINSKY: And dominance, entitlement.

HO: Dominance, entitlement.

PINSKY: I`m just adding the score up. This is moving towards narcissism, right?

ODUOLOWU: Add complex.

HO: Of course. Well, this narcissism, you know, sometimes it comes from a place of really deep-seated insecurity.

PINSKY: Of course.

HO: That`s actually where I think Bill Cosby fits the profile of somebody who would use drug-assisted sexual assault. Because he really doesn`t have

the self-confidence to just go up to a woman regularly and assert his dominance in a way that is actually socially appropriate. He won`t do it

that way. He wants to do it when they`re sleeping.

PINSKY: Segun, maybe he believes his own sort of denial. They won`t remember it, so it won`t bother them.

ODUOLOWU: I think he had to. This man built not only his acting and comedic career, but he made it a point to tell young black people how to

act, how to dress, to tell the world how to be. He was America`s dad.

PINSKY: That`s why the deposition was opened up, because of the moralizing.

Yes, ma`am, you have a point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I definitely don`t think he`s not guilty, but at one point, are the girls a little responsible for taking a pill that they

don`t know what it is and what kind of effect it`s going to have on them?

PINSKY: Allegedly, they didn`t take a pill, Lisa, right? They took a drink. But people do say, well, they went to the room; they knew they

might have sex with the guy up in his hotel room.

What do you do with that sort of question?

BLOOM: I have a spreadsheet of the 47 different stories, and they`re not all identical, but I can tell you about Janice Dickinson. She was in a

restaurant with him and he had summoned her out, supposedly to help her with her career. She said she had menstrual cramps and he said, I have

something for you. She thought it was an aspirin or a Tylenol. She took it. The next thing you know, she wakes up in her hotel room with a lot of

pain in her genitals and semen on her thighs.

PINSKY: Nice. But let`s be clear, though. That, if you, AnneElise, if somebody goes, you know, up -- a woman, goes up to a hotel room, and has

intention to have sex with that man and agrees to take a Quaalude with him, once she takes the Quaalude, she can no longer consent to sex.

GOETZ: There is no consent. You can always change your mind.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: At that point, you are intoxicated that you can`t consent.

GOETZ: It does not matter that you go up to the hotel room. It does not matter where you are.

PINSKY: What your intentions are when you get there.

GOETZ: .what you`re wearing. What matters is, did you consent?

PINSKY: In the moment.

GOETZ: In the moment.

PINSKY: There could be right up to the moment when clothing can be off, you have to be able to consent and say that you consent, but you can`t if

you`re intoxicated.

ODUOLOWU: Wait a minute. If I understand, so letter of the law, I invite a girl up to my room, and I say, we`re going to do -- we`re going to have a

party, we`re going to do some drugs, and she agrees --

PINSKY: No, let`s make it simpler. Here`s three drinks.

ODUOLOWU: Here`s three drinks. You take three drinks and she`s not a whiskey --

PINSKY: Done.

ODUOLOWU: She passes out?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: No, no. Forget passing out. Three -- two glasses of wine, you can`t have sex with that girl, unless you want to put yourself at risk.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: OK. I just want to make sure. Not that I`m doing it.

(LAUGHTER)

BLOOM: If you have sex with an unconscious person.

PINSKY: No, wait, Lisa --

BLOOM: .you are a rapist.

PINSKY: Forget unconscious.

ODUOLOWU: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: If you have sex with a person who cannot consent legally --

PINSKY: And consent legally is the same as driving a car. It`s the same, right?

ODUOLOWU: What I want everyone to understand is, by him doing that, he took their ability to say no away, which is why I think he`s a rapist and

I`ve always said he`s a rapist. Whether they knew or went up there to have sex, the moment he takes away their inability to say no, he`s a despicable

person.

HO: And here`s my fear, Dr. Drew. And I think this is the problem, with the first audience`s comment, we are still in this mentality where we

sometimes blame the victims just a little bit. And you know what, these people all trusted Bill Cosby, because he was their mentor and he was their

friend. So if your mentor says that he`s going to give you an Advil, you might take it, because he`s your mentor.

PINSKY: Another point? Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So in 2015, we`re seeing a lot of progress in Hollywood, more diversity, more women in power. Do you think in the early

`80s, if there were more women in power at that time, these alleged victims would have felt more comfortable and secure coming forward about their

situation?

[19:20:05] BLOOM: Great question.

PINSKY: The answer, I think you`re nodding your head yes, Lisa?

BLOOM: I love that question. It`s such an important point, because people like my client, Janice Dickinson, felt like, my career will be over if I

come out. You know, all the men are going to rally around Bill Cosby, and frankly, that is what they`ve done over the last couple of years.

PINSKY: But it`s almost -- I don`t want to call you this word I`m going to use, but it`s not Pollyannaish or naive to say, if we just had more women

in power because the ambient culture was so misogynistic. In retrospect, think about it.

BLOOM: But more woman in power can change that.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: It`s not that way now. Think -- I mean, look at popular music. Look at the way women are depicted in art, in records, in music?

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

We have more women in power, and it still doesn`t matter. I don`t think if she came out today, you would get -- you wouldn`t get people -- if this was

George Clooney, you don`t think that the majority of Hollywood would have George Clooney`s back? I don`t think it matters. I think women are being

marginalized at a rate that`s worse now, because we should know better.

PINSKY: Well, well --

BLOOM: I agree.

PINSKY: Well, you agree, but it`s not worse, but, yes, we should know better, so it seems worse. But it is better. But the fact is that one

woman that Anderson was interviewing in that tape you just saw in the opening of this segment went to her boss.

She was running a "Playboy" club. He was -- Cosby was calling for more girls, demanding this one and that one. And she went to the boss and said,

hey, here`s what he did to me and she said, I suggest you shut your mouth. That speaks volume about the culture that this was -- it was a cultural

icon, "Playboy" magazine and "Playboy" mansion and think about what that really meant for women. Think about that. That needs to be examined in

the historical context in which we place our cultural history.

The conversation continues. I have somebody coming up, very special guest who was an object of Bill`s affections.

Next, also, did Ariana Grande spit on and lick donuts that customers then bought? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:26:00] GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Presidential Medal of Freedom is the highest civil honor our nation can

bestow.

William Henry Cosby Jr.

From television to film, to stand-up comedy to best-selling books, Bill Cosby`s good-natured humour has always appealed to our common humanity,

helping to bring people together through laughter. The United States proudly honours this truly outstanding American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Bill Cosby had received the presidential Medal of Freedom in 2002.

Back with AnneElise, Judy, Segun, Lisa.

And Barbara Bowman, she accused Bill Cosby of drugging and raping her when she was just 17. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOWMAN: I never saw any drugs, but I would wake up completely confused, half-dressed, and knowing that my body had been touched without my

permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Barbara joins us by phone now. She is also an ambassador to an organization called PAVE, Promoting Awareness Victim Empowerment.

PAVE. Let me see that again. I want to make sure I get it clear for everybody. Promoting Awareness Victim Empowerment.

Barbara, you were an aspiring young actress, Bill Cosby assaulted you. Tell us what happened.

BOWMAN (via-telephone): Hi. Well, thank you for having me on the show. Briefly, I was a young, aspiring actress, 17 years old, from Denver,

Colorado. Had an agent who believed that I had enough talent and promise to move it on to the next level. And I was introduced to Bill Cosby at 17

and he was supposed to mentor me and to open up some doors of opportunity for me to move on to New York City.

PINSKY: Barbara, we were in here talking about the sort of a historical moment that that all represented and how awful young women were treated by

men, particularly, in Hollywood.

Do you think that in his mind, this was some sort of weird quid pro quo?

BOWMAN: This was a very deliberate and masterminded program of grooming. So I was groomed from a young age, as a young actress, to be vulnerable to

his prey.

Within the first 30 minutes of the first audition process, he had -- he knew everything about me. He extracted all my personal business. My -- I

was an only child. I didn`t have a father figure in my life. I had -- you know, I was vulnerable, young, had trust issues, and made it very clear to

me in the first 30 minutes that if I was going to be an effective actress, I needed to relax and learn to trust him and that he was going to take over

that role as a mentor and be a father figure to me.

And by the way, let`s not forget, at that time, he was identified as Dr. Huxtable, the loving, warm, kind, sincere, patriarchal father-type figure,

an America`s favorite dad.

PINSKY: And you said you were 17 when this went down. Were you underage or was that the age of consent in the state you were in or is this

childhood assault?

BOWMAN: Uh, there was no consent, whether I was underage or not underage, but at 17 years old, I was taken across state lines to attend a celebrity

function, as a way to groom me for celebrity-ism.

Wow.

BOWMAN: I was -- I felt, and I was told and my mother was explained explicitly by Cosby and my agent that I would be in good hands, I was safe,

and that moving to New York was, you know, I was right for that.

[21:30:00] I was ready for that. But the grooming process was well underway.

ODUOLOWU: Barbara, if I may, and again, I do not want to minimize what happened to you, but to me it sounds like pimping. It sounds like your

agent basically pimped you to a famous actor. Because at the time that we`re talking about, he was this huge star in Hollywood and I`m not sure

how many --

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: You`re suggesting that the agent understood what --

ODUOLOWU: Yes, I feel that the agent set her up, because --

PINSKY: I don`t know.

ODUOLOWU: Why would an unheralded actress be given to one of the largest - -

PINSKY: He saw some potential in her. And this guy was known to do that. They didn`t necessarily know that he raped him on the other end of it.

ODUOLOWU: Bill Cosby, the acting coach? Like all of it just sounds so wrong.

PINSKY: All right, let me let Barbara respond.

ODUOLOWU: I just want to --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Barbara, before you do this, do you want to address that?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, AVVO.COM: Yes, listen, I`m with you. I think there`s some serious questions here about the agents` involvement in this.

Maybe he didn`t know that Bill Cosby was going to rape her, but clearly sex was going to be a part of it. And we`re talking about a 17-year-old

underage girl and a married -- let`s not forget, he was married during the entire time period that all of the 47 accusers are talking about, big

celebrity.

PINSKY: And Barbara, the more we hear about the culture, the circumstance, the duplicity, we just all get -- we want to go take a shower afterwards.

But please, address what Segun said.

BOWMAN: Well, if I understood your question, you`re asking me what I`m doing now?

PINSKY: No, no, no. The question was, was the agent in on this in some sort of way?

BOWMAN: Oh, OK.

PINSKY: And the other people that we should also be really pointing the finger out that may have been accomplices?

BOWMAN: Well, let me answer it this way. Cosby could have never gotten away with what he got away with for the decades that he did if he was not

hermetically sealed inside of a bubble and an inner circle of people that was many, many layers thick. So when I was at that age and I told my agent

that I was raped by Bill Cosby, she did nothing.

Now, I didn`t -- I told others, as well. And the work that I do now, I`m trying to help the women and the industry leaders in Hollywood to

understand what happened to me. There`s three things that happened. A, there was culpability. B, there was -- there were people turning the other

cheek. And three, ignorance. People that did not know what to do with the information. People that were fearful and afraid of losing something.

People that didn`t want to lose their jobs and wanted to shut their mouths and just pretend it was going away and did not happen. So I was not

protected. And those three things are very --

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Barbara? Barbara? Barbara?

BOWMAN: Yes?

HO: Hi, I just wanted to know, you know, at the time Bill Cosby was really a positive role model. A lot of people thought of him this way, right?

Weren`t you up against that as well when you were trying to talk to people about what happen to you?

PINSKY: It couldn`t be him. He`s America`s father.

BOWMAN: We were talking about Dr. Huxtable, the character. And nobody would ever have gone up against Bill Cosby at the time. He was Dr.

Huxtable.

HO: Right.

BOWMAN: He was at the height of his career. He was America`s favorite dad. Everyone wanted to --

PINSKY: Barbara?

Go ahead, AnneElise.

ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Barbara, quick question here. Do you feel vindicated at all by what`s happening when you turn on CNN.com and you see

that these depositions are coming out? You see these admissions that he`s made. And you see that he has lost in the court of public opinion. He is

-- the court of capitalism has ruled against him. So he`s getting hit in his pocketbook. He`s no longer America`s father.

Do you feel the vindication and that your story is being heard, not even through the prism of the judicial system?

PINSKY: And before she says that, and there`s still work to be done, everybody. It`s a reminder, about an historical arc that we`re part of it.

PINSKY: Go ahead. Answer that, Barbara, then we have to go.

BOWMAN: Yes. I want to say, yes, yes, yes to all of that. And let you know that we have a petition going at WhiteHouse.gov right now to revoke

his honor of getting the presidential Medal of Freedom. That is one of the highest, most honorable honors in this nation and he does not deserve to

have that medal. And, you know, a serial rapist does not deserve to be alongside others in our nation who have earned it.

BLOOM: Bravo!

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Bravo, Barbara! Thank you so much for joining us. And whatever happens here, keep up the good work. There`ll be no disparaging your

intention here on what you hope to do to empower women.

Next up, drawing the line between free speech and hate speech, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[21:39:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE reporter (voice-over): In less than a month, the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan will be coming to town to

protest against the flag`s removal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For all the blood in my mouth, for all the blood in my face, for the blood in my hand, it compares nothing to the blood of my

head.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a lot of tension, a lot of pain, a lot of frustration and a lot of just people are tired of the racism.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You became a member of the KKK in your teens. What drew you to this organization?

JAMES MOORE, IMPERIAL KLUDD OF THE LOYAL WHITE KNIGHTS: People like yourself that discriminate against me that said I could not stand up for my

people. That I was a racist for being white. We get walked out to the classroom for being white on all black school that I attended. I`m sick

and tired of it and I`m not going to watch generations go through it anymore.

LEMON: What does your America, your version of America look like?

MOORE: Looks like a peaceful place that (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Don`s interview with that KKK representative was just after the racist chant scandal at the University of Oklahoma fraternity. If you,

guys, remember that.

The Klan next week will protest the flag`s removal from the grounds of the South California State Capitol. It`s their privilege and right to do that.

We`ll talk about it back.

We got Elise, Judy, Segun.

[21:40:15] Segun, what is their reasoning? Why do they want this flag to stay up?

ODUOLOWU: Their reason is that it represents white pride and white heritage and it is for -- it`s not a symbol of hate, but a symbol of

southern pride, which I find absolutely ridiculous.

It was the flag carried into battle by the group of people trying to not only succeed from the union of America, but keep the institution of

slavery. So their symbol is one of not only oppression to black people, but it has nothing to do with America. They wanted a separate country.

It`s ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I just think the easiest way to think about it is to compare it on how we feel about the Nazi flag. It`s the same thing. What if a region of

Germany wanted to put up a Nazi flag or a swastika, it`s just part of history, part of German history, no big deal. We don`t want to believe in

Nazi things anymore, but it`s just part of our history. There would be upset people about that. But do they have a right to do it, nonetheless,

the KKK? Should we protect the right to protest?

GOETZ: They do have a right to do it. And I`m proud that we live in a country where they can do it. I obviously find what they stand for to be

despicable. But the hardest time to get behind and rally the First Amendment right to freedom of speech is when you don`t agree with what

people are saying.

And we have to be so careful in this country when we get -- when issues like this, this hot button issue that you feel so charged about and you

want to say, well, they can`t do it. They shouldn`t be able to stand in this country and say those hateful things. But that`s how we -- you know,

to have that public discord is one of the cornerstones, one of the bedrock of this country. And we cannot be in a country where the government says,

I don`t like your position, you don`t get to say it.

ODUOLOWU: But, AnneElise, can I ask you a question?

GOETZ: Of course.

ODUOLOWU: Take the hoods off then. If you want to show me that you are a racist, take the hoods off. Take the sunglasses off.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

I don`t -- I agree with you, they have every right to protest. Take your hoods off if you`re so righteous.

PINSKY: And Judy --

ODUOLOWU: Let me see you eye-to-eye. Don`t hide behind your hoods and your bigotry and be the guy at the water cooler at my job. Take your hoods

off. Let us see that you`re my next-door neighbor and let`s see you for who you are.

PINSKY: My concern is when speech becomes motivating hate. How do we figure that part out?

HO: Right.

PINSKY: We allow it, we allow it, allow it and somebody does something because of it. Is there -- how do we manage that?

HO: And that`s the problem, Dr. Drew. I think no matter what we do, overtly, our behaviors and what we actually say out loud to people, almost

everybody, has some inherent and even sometimes unconscious bias.

And this comes out in various different ways. There are actually tests that we can do to actually get at people`s unconscious and illicit biases.

And this is the problem. Where do we stop? Once it starts going down that direction, if you`re provoked, that`s going to come out. Your bias will

come out.

PINSKY: By Skype, I`ve got Gina Loudon. She`s host of "America Trends" on YouToo America.

Give me your reaction to what we`re discussing here.

GINA LOUDON, HOST, AMERICA TRENDS: I really think that the really sad part about this that I`m not hearing a lot about in the media, and you`ve

addressed it before, but it`s the fact that the South Carolina victims, the families and all of them, they really asked for peace.

And they had about two days of media on that, and then all of a sudden, now, all we`re talking about are these flags. There`s a re-birth of the

almost dead KKK and there are flags flying all over the south that were never there before. I just think it`s sad. And I think that as a nation,

we need to have more straight talk and heal from this and talk about the American race instead of all the race baiting.

PINSKY: Interesting. I want to give her a chance, our audience member. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was going to say the same thing. I thought that the whole thing about the flag came out right after the Charleston

shooting. And why did it take so long? Why did we have to wait until the shooting happened with the kid, with the photo? And I think it was one

week after, that`s when Walmart banned it, Amazon banned it, everyone banned the flag. Why did it take that -- or was that the reason why we

band it so quickly?

ODUOLOWU: People have been saying ban it for a long time.

PINSKY: But the point is well taken by everybody. When change occurs, it occurs in spasms and it occurs when something really awful happens,

unfortunately. I wish we could do things in a more disciplined way.

But, Gina, I`m not sure. We should find a common ground and get together rather than talk about things that split us apart?

LOUDON: I am. And I`m saying that we should turn ourselves in to who the real race baiters are. It`s not just the KKK. It`s the Al Sharptons of

the world, too. And I think that we need to hold them equally accountable. And I think we need to say that, you know, look, we as the human race want

to talk about healing, want to talk about unity, want to talk about the American race.

Because I think what is happening, if you look at the real results, Dr. Drew, we`re not making progress when the focus has become a flag and the

rebirth of the KKK. That`s not progress.

ODUOLOWU: Gina, I would like to -- I agree with what you`re saying, that they`re race baiting on both sides. But when you say the KKK is dead, I

disagree with that. I mean, it may not be as visible as it used to be, but there is bigotry and racism and hatred throughout America. It`s interwoven

in almost everything we do. When you`re seeing cops kill black kids in the street. When you`re seeing people getting choke to death. When you`re

seeing police officers hide evidence or even frame people, you have to understand that for a group of people, it will never be as simple as, let`s

all sing Kumbaya and come together when we`re not being invited to some country clubs. We`re not being allowed to live in certain houses. We`re

not allowed to get some education. It`s a little bit realer than just race baiting.

(CROSSTALK)

[21:35:23] PINSKY: I want to hear what this young lady says.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes and yes. I am so sick of people saying, people have to have their right to speak. What about our right to live? All this

racial stuff is killing our young men, killing Americans.

PINSKY: Killing America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, killing America.

PINSKY: Right? Right? We need to get together a little bit, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their freedom of speech. Yes, I agree with freedom of speech, but not as a result of people dying. And that`s what`s

happening.

(CROSSTALK)

GOETZ: And that`s the key component --

PINSKY: I`m going to give Elise a chance, and then I`ve got to go.

I`m sorry, ladies.

Go.

GOETZ: You are correct. That is the key component. And when people talk about, where do you draw the line? Where do you draw the line? The line

is when they actually start taking criminal activity or they elicit --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: How do you know where that line is?

(CROSSTALK)

GOETZ: And that is when you actually step in and you have the criminal charges and you let the criminal justice system come in. It`s important in

this country --

(CROSSTALK)

HO: It`s a reactive system, AnneElise, when we`re waiting for the criminal justice system to come in. By then, it`s two or three years after exactly.

Thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Guys, I got to stop it. I`m out of time. We`re changing gears. We`ve got the "Click Fix."

Ariana Grande licking and spitting on donuts.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:40:45] Time for our "Click Fix," where the guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram feeds.

Judy, what do you got?

HO: Well, my story is about a 26-year-old mother who actually posted an emotional video on her Facebook page. She`s the from Ireland and she`s

alleged that she was emotionally and physically abused by the father of her two young children. And she posted this video and it received 4 million

views and has 70,000 shares and this most recent incident occurred when she confronted him about an affair. We`re going to watch this video right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I went to the gym and I confronted him and he denies it, of course, and when I threw his phone, he punched me in the face

and it wasn`t the first time.

Last year, he split my head open. No children should see that. My little fellow was in the back of the car on Friday, and he`s screaming. And I

looked at him and it broke my heart. Although he`s only 18 months, he shouldn`t have to see that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: No, no. Absolutely should not. Judy and I both know, that is the face of domestic violence. If anything even close to that is happening,

get out, get out, period.

HO: That`s right. And I`m really glad that she is sharing this. I hope that she is taking the steps now to leave and get out.

PINSKY: Get out. Get out.

HO: But it takes years sometimes, Dr. Drew.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I know. But the top five priorities are get out, get out, get out, get out. That`s it.

AnneElise?

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

GOETZ: OK. So next up, I saw this story on HLNTV.com. It`s a great story. It`s interesting, especially because China is the first country to

classify internet addicts as a clinical disorder. And in an attempt to cure this disorder, they`ve created boot camps, essentially. And PBS was

granted a very interesting behind-the-scene access to these boot camps. We can roll the tape.

PINSKY: Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used the internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: While I find something satisfying about that, my experience, most people get what we call process addiction, which is this addiction to web

and stuff like that, other than porn, is they have a type of psychiatric problem.

HO: Absolutely. That`s usually part of what they`re trying to cope with.

PINSKY: Yes, and I don`t see them addressing the psychiatric issue.

HO: They`re not. And I think there`s a lot of stigma in China about mental illness, so it`s actually easier for them to admit that there`s an

internet addiction because that`s a very widespread activity.

PINSKY: But AnneElise likes it.

(CROSSTALK)

GOETZ: I like it. I`m like, this is an addiction? You know, like, we`re not talking about drugs here. And what we`re talking about probably is bad

parenting. Get the kids away from the iPhone. You don`t have like a weird guy at the end of the street peddling iPhones. You know, this is an

addiction that we can get our hands off.

HO: Well, in fact, that is what they do at the camp. They make them like not do anything related to computers.

GOETZ: They make them wear a diaper.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Go on, Segun.

ODUOLOWU: Yes, I don`t even know how to follow that. I have a story getting so much buzz that it`s trending at the top of Twitter. The owner

of a Southern California donut shop says 22-year-old pop singer Ariana Grande and a male friend spit and licked on donuts in his store.

Now, you`re looking at surveillance video obtained by TMZ. Another shop employee described Grande as quote, "rude," and said she walked up to the

counter and sarcastically asked for a donut professional. The owner is concerned the contaminated donuts were sold to other customers and he has

filed a report with the sheriff`s department.

PINSKY: Wow. We`ll let those sort of play out. There could be a legal problem there, right?

ODUOLOWU: What are you doing?

GOETZ: Yes.

ODUOLOWU: What is that?

GOETZ: I mean, come on. You`re going in there, you`re contaminating -- it`s more of an issue for the people who own the restaurant, because all

this food is now being contaminated. They know it`s on the security cameras and did they serve it to other people.

PINSKY: They have to throw it all away.

ODUOLOWU: It`s just the audacity of someone in her position to do that. First to demean the people working at the donut shop, who actually get up

early in the morning to make the donuts so that they`re fresh. All of that speaks to over privileged, you know just entitlement and it`s sad. It`s

sad. It`s dad. She lost the fan in me.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

[21:45:04] PINSKY: Next up, thank you guys.

Baby yoga or child abuse? We will show you what I considered, there it is, shocking video. I`ll tell you what I think, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: And the PBS documentary we had just discussed in the last segment about internet addiction airs Monday, July 13th.

Time now for my "Click Fix."

It is a disturbing and controversial video posted to Facebook by an anonymous user. It shows a crying baby being dunked in a bucket of water

and aggressively swung. That`s obviously -- I just can`t watch this.

It`s believed to be a video from Indonesia. It has over 100,000 views, and then Facebook took it down after that 100,000 views. Initially, Facebook

argued the video depicted, "baby yoga," and did not violate policy. They`ve since caved to law enforcement, which, at this point, is

investigating this as child abuse.

Yes, it`s very disturbing, everybody.

Thank you for watching. DVR us, you can watch anytime.

Thank you, audience. We`ll see you next time.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

END