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Richard Matt's Letter; U.S. Security Review; Baltimore Police Van Sign; Dad speaks of Film. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 3, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:03] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go on this day before Fourth of July. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin with words, words from now dead fugitive Richard Matt himself, quote, "see you on the outside," written before he and David Sweat tunneled out of prison in upstate New York. This letter reportedly sent to his daughter seen as an ominous vow considering this brutal murderer was in prison for 25 years to life. His daughter receiving this letter as the manhunt was well underway, three days into their time on the run. But the postmark here, it was actually dated before that escape. Let me read this for you. Quote, "I always promised you I would see you on the outside. I'm a man of my word."

All of this coming in today as we're learning that New York police are searching for the owners of this backpack. So let's talk about all of this with Deborah Feyerick.

And before we get into the backpack here, the letter specifically. What more do we know?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we do know is that there's no indication that the daughter had any idea that her father was planning to break out of prison.

BALDWIN: She didn't?

FEYERICK: She had no idea. And as a matter of fact, when the letter came, it appears that she even asked for additional protection because she was very concerned about her father. And when somebody who is in a maximum security prison writes you that kind of a letter, you really don't think they're going to turn up at your door. When you find out they've escaped, then you've got to take a couple of precautions.

But we do know that he wrote this letter while he was in prison. It was sent by U.S. Postal Service and it arrived about three days after he escaped. So they're looking into that.

You know, it's ominous, in hindsight. And a lot of this, talking about this investigation, it all becomes so apparent now.

BALDWIN: After the fact.

FEYERICK: But back then, again -

BALDWIN: But that was it, just those two little lines?

FEYERICK: That was it, "I always promised I would see you on the outside. I am a man of my word."

This is an adult daughter from his one and only marriage that we've been able to find and it's unclear whether they had any direction contact because he was in and out of prison so much and also he was - he was on the run, he was on the lam, he was in Mexico, as a matter of fact, when he - after dismembering that body. So he's been away for a long time.

BALDWIN: What about David Sweat? He's the one who has survived, who's talking. And they're looking for this backpack that at some point in time was on him in the woods.

FEYERICK: Well, that's exactly right. And you - and it's interesting because what we've been told is that, obviously, they were taking a lot of things from these cabins. This appears to be a brand-new backpack and they're trying to find the owner. That's according to police. They want to find the owner. They haven't said whether in fact the owner was - they believe it was taken from a camp site. But, you know, even then, the mind starts racing. Do they want to find the owner because they think something happened to it? Do they want to find the owner because maybe he came across these two men? Do they want to find the owner because there were things in the backpack that suggests that maybe they did have help on the outside? So all of that.

BALDWIN: Do they not think the backpack just came out of a cabin like everything else?

FEYERICK: They - they do not. They do not.

BALDWIN: Interesting.

FEYERICK: They think that it was taken from - well, I should - I apologize. They think it was take from a campsite. That's what they say.

BALDWIN: OK.

FEYERICK: It's a brand-new backpack and usually whether somebody would have left that in one of these cabins, you know, out of hunting season, that's under investigation.

BALDWIN: OK. What about - you have learned about something else that has happened at this correctional facility in Dannemora prior to the escape.

FEYERICK: And this was also very interesting because they're looking at the timeline of this escape because it's really unclear when they broke out of their cells and when they would have been able to make the holes that they allegedly made, assuming nobody else helped them. But one thing they're looking at is a riot that took place about a week earlier. The superintendent of the facility called headquarters, which is in Albany, to ask for a lockdown and Albany gave them a partial lockdown. What they did not do is isolate the honor block. They did not search

the honor block.

BALDWIN: Which is where these two lived.

FEYERICK: Exactly. Exactly. This was a riot that took place amongst 30 individuals. One person was hurt. There were no weapons involved. And interesting that the superintendent would want something more complete and only got what amounts to a partial lockdown. And again, no indication that they would have found these holes.

BALDWIN: Right.

FEYERICK: There are huge security lapses. And the deputy superintendent of security, who was there the longest, he's going to have the - he's going to have the most to answer to in all of this.

BALDWIN: To your point, in hindsight, in hindsight.

FEYERICK: Yes.

BALDWIN: Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.

This Fourth of July, as all of us are celebrating, perhaps taking in some fireworks, you know what, law enforcement officials are warning that terrorists may use this time to attack America. Days after the FBI issued a terror bulletin to police about the holiday, the State Department is now doing a worldwide security review. All U.S. embassies and consulates will be assessed to see if more security measures need to be taken. But national security officials are stressing, they are not aware of any active or specific plots. Let me repeat, not aware of any active or specific plots ahead of this weekend.

[14:05:03] Let's go to my colleague, Boris Sanchez, who's live at Penn Station here, the train hub in New York City.

You know, the state of New York, Boris, just took some additional steps in the wake of this bulletin. Can you talk to me about those?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Brooke.

About 42 million people are expected to hit the road and travel for the Fourth of July weekend. So officials are focusing on travel hubs like here at Penn Station in New York City. And as you mentioned, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announcing this morning some special measures to ensure people are safe. He's expanding patrols and staff at the emergency operations center here in New York City.

We've also learned that law enforcement is installing snipers and spotters in strategic locations to be sure that if anything is out of place, they know immediately. They're also scanning for explosives and radioactive devices by land, sea and air. And they also have 7,000 cameras fanned out across this city, again, looking for anything suspicious. Officials tell us they are ready for any kind of threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHN MILLER, NYPD INTELLIGENCE & COUNTERTERRORISM: You always have to take into account what is the unknown threat, what is the possibilities out there, whether it's lone wolves or while we focus on ISIS, al Qaeda, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, its network hasn't gone away. So we're focused on that, too. What we ask of our officers is, heightened vigilance, heightened counterterrorism awareness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The governor, again, asking for vigilance from New Yorkers. If they see something out of place, they're hoping people will report it immediately. All of this precaution, as you mentioned, Brooke, not because of a specific or credible threat, but rather recent events around the world. Bombings in the Mideast, as well as the attacks in Tunisia and France, and ISIS related arrests here in the northeast.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: See something, say something. By those lines behind you, a lot of New Yorkers still heading out and about for the holiday.

Boris, thank you so much.

With me now, Anthony Lemieux, investigator at the National Center for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, or START.

So, Anthony, great to have you on.

ANTHONY LEMIEUX, NATIONAL CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF TERRORISM & RESPONSE TO TERRORISM: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Again, reiterating, there is no specific threat ahead of this holiday weekend, but there is reason for concern. Everything I'm reading from these officials, you know, just simply based upon the sheer number of people who are clearly motivated by ISIS' messaging and also the fact that they've proven their reached in the west?

LEMIEUX: Absolutely. And I think that's an ongoing threat. I think any time you have like a holiday or something with a symbolic value like the Fourth of July really being very low hanging fruit, you want to heighten that awareness. But I think it is something that we need to be constantly vigilant about.

And I would also add, it's not just necessarily ISIS or AQAP or that kind of mindset, but I think there's also a significant domestic threat that we also want to be concerned about and not let our guard down there either.

BALDWIN: You know, I was just talking to Phil Mudd, former - retired CIA counterterrorism guy, and he was saying to me, you know, the real difference, as we talk so much about al Qaeda, right? This is a familiar foe to the United States. Been tracking them for years. Their M.O. is more larger scale, coordinated, you know, attacks. Unlike al Qaeda, when we are talking about ISIS, you know, they're essentially saying to anyone who will listen or who's online and will be motivated, go grab a gun, go grab a knife, go do something. And that's the frightening part.

LEMIEUX: Absolutely. And I would add, it - you know, al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula had tried to go in that direction before with the "Inspire" magazine and the kinds of prompting the attacks, that sort of effort to do what you can where you can and if you don't have a knife, if you, you know, you can use a car. If you don't have a bomb, you can use a gun. I mean it - they really try to get a wide range of actions in the considerations set for someone who is sufficiently motivated. ISIS has also really expanded to that over the past number of months as well.

BALDWIN: Do you, though, think as a result of, this could be anyone who could be motivated in terms of resources and counterterrorism officials, that's the challenge, right, you cannot monitor every single one of these folks who could perhaps do something.

LEMIEUX: Absolutely. And the clip that you had with John Miller saying, you know, it's the unknowns, that's also really -

BALDWIN: Right.

LEMIEUX: Especially troubling because you can't possibly be everywhere all the time and that's why I think having a public who is vigilant and, more importantly, actually starts to know what to be vigilant for. You know, something that looks out of place. But what does that really mean? And -

BALDWIN: What does that really mean, Anthony?

LEMIEUX: Yes. That's a - that's a - the million dollar question. And I think when you're talking about people, like commuters, for instance, they have a pretty good sense of what their commute looks like. Here we're talking about people who will be gathered at festivities, you know, parades and fireworks and other kinds of displays. And so it might take a little longer to process something that seems abnormal or out of the ordinary, but it is being able to make those judgments and I think that's one of the biggest lines of defense that we have for that public vigilance to really have its effects.

[14:10:00] BALDWIN: Anthony Lemieux, thank you so much.

LEMIEUX: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Next, outrage over this sign - wait for it. You'll see it on the inside of this police transport van in Baltimore. It says, here we go, "enjoy your ride cause we sure will." Really? This happening here as we've discussed Freddie Gray's death. Remember, he was not shackled, placed in the back of this van. We don't know when this sign was put in there, but listen, big questions about that bridge between community and police in the wake of this. We'll discuss that.

Also, Donald Trump facing a new challenge. This one from the liberal mayor here in New York City. Hear what Bill de Blasio is now threatening to do as it pertains to Trump. And the heartbreaking moment a judge recognized a suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry to see you there. I always wondered what happened to you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, oh, my goodness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This - this is the nicest kid in middle school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[14:15:01] The Baltimore Police Department already under fire for its alleged role in April's death of Freddie Gray, now more controversy in this city. This department now investigating, in the wake of this questionable sign discovered inside one of these prisoner transport van. And you see on the inside of the door it reads, "enjoy your ride cause we sure will." This photo is now circulating and some, including police officials, are calling the wording, and I quote, "concerning and unacceptable."

Listen, you know the story about Freddie Gray. He suffered that critical neck injury after being left handcuffed and shackled in the back of a van similar to this one that made several stops before medics finally were able to treat him. He died later at the hospital.

Joining me now, former DEA agent and firearms and Homeland Security expert David Katz, and CNN legal analyst Philip Holloway, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And, David Katz, just as a former - all - you know, I look at you all things law enforcement here. You know this is absolutely absurd and unacceptable?

DAVID KATZ, FORMER DEA AGENT: It's stupid.

BALDWIN: Stupid.

KATZ: It's juvenile and it's, worst of all, it's unprofessional. So we still - we still do a lot of training with law enforcement officers and I always stress to people, in addition to doing the right thing, of course, you have to look good and sound good and maintain your professional demeanor at all times. This is not - this is not high school. So it is unprofessional. I don't think it - I don't think - I'm sure it was not post Freddie Gray. I'm sure -

BALDWIN: We do not know, by the way.

KATZ: Yes. BALDWIN: Let's be crystal clear. We don't know. We don't - I can't say for sure this is the same van. We don't know when this sign was placed, before or after. But, still, the fact that it exists, the photo was taken. It's obviously being circulated.

And following up with you, I'm curious, just within circles of law enforcement - because clearly this sign is on the inside of the door. This is not for the public to see. This is for those who are transported to see. Do officers - some officers try to intimidate or mess with people they arrest?

KATZ: Some - some do. Most do not. Most all - most cops are just very, very basic. You're under arrest. These are - this is what you need to do while you're being transported. Do it. If you're - fi you're paying attention, if you're listening, if you're not resisting arrest, 99.99 percent of the time you are not going to have any difficulty at all getting to either to court or to whatever holding area you're going to be in.

BALDWIN: But there are those -

KATZ: There are - listen, you get bullies in every profession for sure. This is just one - it's unnecessary and unprofessional and I find it inappropriate.

BALDWIN: This is, obviously, Philip, a particularly sensitive sign given what we know about Freddie Gray's death was ruled a homicide, you know, was stopped multiple times and no aid rendered until, what, 42 minutes or so later. Could this sign at all be brought in to this criminal case involving these six police officers who were charged in that death?

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, first off, good afternoon, Brooke. It's always nice to see you.

It's not, however, nice to see a sign like this. And, yes, I do think that it is possible that this sign, if nothing else, will shed some light into what is sometimes referred to as this us against them mentality that sometimes dangerously creeps into police culture and police society. It's the idea that we as police officers are the good guys and the citizens that we're supposed to be serving are either bad guys or are probably going to be bad guys and so that somehow gives us license to do whatever we want with you in any way that we want to.

BALDWIN: But be specific, Philip, I mean when you say it could shed some light, how could it be introduced as part of any of these trials regarding these six officers? Again, we don't know when this - when this sticker was placed on the inside of the door and we don't know which van it was in.

HOLLOWAY: No. If this was in the actual van that Freddie Gray died in, of course it would be a bombshell.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HOLLOWAY: But it demonstrates this police subculture. And the way that Freddie Gray was treated or mistreated, as it were, in the back of that van is going to be key. And it is the intention of the officers, it's what's in their mind at the time they were transporting him, that is what is going to be key and what is going to be relevant in the Freddie Gray case. And if this is the mindset of officers who are transported people to jail, it's outrageous. And, you know, I can't, for the life of me, imagine why anyone would take any pleasure out of taking someone to jail. It's fine to be proud of a job well done if you do a great job as a police officer. That's fine. But you don't take pleasure in taking someone to jail. It's not just right.

BALDWIN: David Katz, I'm looking at - you're shaking your head.

KATZ: Oh, I - yes - yes, OK.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

KATZ: First of all, there are a lot of times that you do take a lot of pleasure bringing someone to jail. You take a rapist off the street, you take a pedophile into custody, you do something that's beneficial to the neighborhood, you get a little bit of pleasure taking that person off the street. The police officers are not, as a general rule, possessed with this, as you call it, the us versus them mentality. Are there some? Sure there are. Just as - but just as valid is the concern that we in law enforcement have in the neighborhoods of the other side of the coin, the people, the criminals, the thugs, the people on the street you're dealing with every day, not the community, not the folks in the community who are glad you're there, the ones who are not glad that you're there, the ones who are trying to shoot you or harm you, the ones who resist arrest. So there are two sides of the coin. And for the most part, the men and women of law enforcement are doing a great job dealing with it.

[14:20:10] BALDWIN: Philip, I want you to respond.

HOLLOWAY: Well, I've arrested people. I have arrested people, I have prosecuted people and sent them to prison for some of the crimes he just talked about. Yes, I felt a sense of satisfaction for a job well done, but I took no pleasure in having to do it. This sign shows that somebody takes pleasure out of taking away somebody else's liberty.

When I was a prosecutor and sent someone to prison for doing horrific things, I felt awful for the families of the individuals who suffered as victims of the crime, as well as the families of those who had to go to prison. We did a good job. We did what we had to do, but I took no pleasure in it. And to think that a police officer takes pleasure out of transporting someone to jail, I find reprehensible.

KATZ: I think - I think you're really overreaching on there. I think it's sophomoreic (ph), juvenile, childish and unprofessional, but I don't think you make the leap saying, well, obviously someone's taking pleasure. It's a stupid thing to put in the van, period.

BALDWIN: Not to mention optically, for those inside of Baltimore and outside, when we talk so much about how this city has such a need to bridge clearly this crevasse between police and community, this doesn't make it better. KATZ: Yes. Absolutely you're correct about that. One hundred percent

right.

BALDWIN: David Katz and Philip Holloway, thank you both very much.

HOLLOWAY: Thanks, Brooke.

KATZ: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, a Montana man applied for his marriage license this week. Only problem, this would make wife number two. He is a self-described polygamist who says he is just looking for marriage equality, especially now in the wake of the Supreme Court's decision on same-sex marriage. How might this apply to him, in his own words. We'll discuss, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:47] BALDWIN: HBO has announced plans to air a documentary about the shooting death of 17-year-old Florida teenager Jordan Davis. Davis was shot and killed outside of a Jacksonville gas station in 2012 by software developer Michael Dunn. The teen had refused Dunn's demands to turn down his music in his car. This documentary entitled "Three and Half Minutes, Ten Bullets," take a look at the aftermath of Davis' untimely death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE) the address of your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm at the Gate (ph) gas station.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired in the parking lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two black males stepped out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Came from a red SUV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if they were trying to smash something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person driving the vehicle was the one shooting out of the vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. (INAUDIBLE) you hear, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

ON SCREEN TEXT: On November 23, 2012, Jordan Davis and his friends pulled into a gas station. Three and a half minutes later, ten shots rang out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dunn was sentenced to life in prison for that killing. His trial highlighted claims of racial inequality in Florida's stand your ground law. Joining me now is Jordan Davis' father, Ron Davis. Mr. Davis, thank you so much for being here. And, again, I am so sorry

for the loss of your son.

RON DAVIS, FATHER OF JORDAN DAVIS: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As you mentioned, the justice system has spoken. Dunn is away for life. So why take this step? As a father, I can't even imagine the loss you suffered, and make an entire film about this.

DAVIS: Well, it - you know, every time we start speaking about these children, unarmed children, by the way, Brooke, of these killings, the victims, it's always the jurors they look at they say, we can't - we can't connect with the families, we can't connect with the victims. And so when we looked at our case, they couldn't connect with Jordan Davis as a person because when it's Mike Dunn's trial, you only see a picture of Jordan, his I.D. picture.

They wouldn't let us show picture of him interacting with the family. They never want to show a picture of him doing anything, you know, fun with his friends. And so I decided that we need a film about the families, about how the families have to navigate the court system, and how we, as families, always have our hearts broken through the system because they never want to give us the time, even - even when they had our trial, they told us not to sit in the first row. We have to sit in the second row. And don't cry too much because if you cry too much you might interrupt the proceedings and it will cause a mistrial. So you have to sit there stoic and this film really shows that - what the parents have to go through.

BALDWIN: And part of the film, you talk about how you got - I believe it was a text message from Trayvon Martin's father saying essentially welcome to a club. A club no one ever wants to be a member of. And you, you know, in this - you describe how your emotions will really be able to play out, especially for those families that have to go through this. And, listen, we've covered a lot of examples of brutality, you know, in these national news stories and I'm just wondering what really is that message to America?

DAVIS: Yes. We - I did get a text from Trayvon Martin's father, Tracy Martin, and he said, you know, welcome to a club no one wants to be a member. I have to also do that to Mike Brown. I went up to Ferguson and welcomed him into the circle of fathers. I also had to go and talk to Walter Scott Sr. when his son got shot in the back and then they tried to put a laser - a Taser next to his body, and I welcomed him to the circle of fathers also. So, you know, time and time again, you have these fathers and these mothers that don't know what to do once you find out your loved one has been shot and killed, or whatever happened to your loved ones to cause their deaths, whether it's a chokehold or whatever. And it's always an unarmed person. And here in America we have to stop this killing of unarmed people.

I look at John Crawford. John Crawford at a Wal-Mart. He was due to have a gun. It was a bb gun. And they came in and shot him within 36 seconds of being in Wal-Mart they shot John Crawford. And then, you know, in Idaho, same guys - had some white guys in Wal-Mart. They was flashing guns and shooting bb guns into the ceiling. When the police came, all they did was arrest them. They didn't even shoot them. And they were shooting the guns in the Wal-Mart. So there's a discrepancy between how we're being treated as African-Americans and Latinos in this country.

[14:29:59] BALDWIN: In terms of how you've been treated, for you, sir, growing up in America as an African-American man, how - I don't even know what part of the country you were born and raised but -

DAVIS: New York.

BALDWIN: New York. Right here where I am.

DAVIS: Yes.